Guest guest Posted September 10, 2006 Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 >From: " Skipper Beers " <lsb149@...> Here's an interesting quote on endocardits vs. the risk of antibiotics http://www.rcsed.ac.uk/journal/svol1_4/10400002.html " To put the risk-benefit into perspective, it has been estimated that 1.36 people per million population are likely to die from penicillin-induced anaphylaxis to prevent infective endocarditis, whereas only 0.26 deaths per million population are due to dental procedure-induced endocarditis.15 Put another way, patients receiving penicillin (amoxicillin) prophylaxis to prevent infective endocarditis are five times more likely to die from an anaphylactic reaction to the drug than to die from contracting endocarditis if no cover was provided. Thus, it would appear from these statistics that the risk of providing cover to prevent infective endocarditis is far greater than not providing cover. " This is their opinon of course, and people should make up their own mind as to whether to take antibiotics before dental work or not. But, it is my belief when they quantify the value of taking antibiotics they treat them as if they were 100% safe and 100% effective, which they're not. I've seen my wife have enough allergic reactions to drugs to believe it is not safe to take them, and I think the quantity of her allergic reactions to drugs has to do with her MVP, an added risk condition for endocarditis, but also an added risk for drug allergies. Why it's good idea to have hydrocortisone (or prednisone) on hand in case you have allergic reactions because it can be helpful. That's what they give you in the ER. Epipens' are also helpful, but haven't had to use one. So, I would say rinse the mouth thoroughly with antiseptic before going to the dentist's office. (Actually they ought to provide an antiseptic rinse before they clean or fill your teeth.) Rinsing with hydrogen peroxide, would be good, I haven't had a sore throat since I started rinsing with hydrogen peroxide every day. (Did you know every cell in your body has hydrogen peroxide, and it's used to treat infection?) An iodine rinse wouldn't hurt either. Those on hydrocortisone need to take extra before dental work, as it's quite hard on us. Iodine is probably a good thing to have in your system. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us & source=wlmai\ ltagline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2006 Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 I did a lot of reading regarding antibiotics when my older daughter was ill. Turns out there are a few antibiotics that can cause aplastic anemia, one in particular is very prone to, so much so that it's not used much anymore. Doctors don't every tell you that up front though, usually the only reaction they're concerned about is an allergy. If one was to read the fine print regarding all the side effects to penicillin alone, it would be enough IMO to keep you from ever taking it again.LinnOn Sep 10, 2006, at 1:13 PM, Skipper Beers wrote:>From: "Skipper Beers" <lsb149hotmail>Here's an interesting quote on endocardits vs. the risk of antibioticshttp://www.rcsed.ac.uk/journal/svol1_4/10400002.html"To put the risk-benefit into perspective, it has been estimated that 1.36 people per million population are likely to die from penicillin-induced anaphylaxis to prevent infective endocarditis, whereas only 0.26 deaths per million population are due to dental procedure-induced endocarditis.15 Put another way, patients receiving penicillin (amoxicillin) prophylaxis to prevent infective endocarditis are five times more likely to die from an anaphylactic reaction to the drug than to die from contracting endocarditis if no cover was provided. Thus, it would appear from these statistics that the risk of providing cover to prevent infective endocarditis is far greater than not providing cover.". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2006 Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 >From: Linn <linnmiller@...> >I did a lot of reading regarding antibiotics when my older daughter was >ill. Turns out there are a few antibiotics that can cause aplastic >anemia, one in particular is very prone to, so much so that it's not used >much anymore. Doctors don't every tell you that up front though, usually >the only reaction they're concerned about is an allergy. If one was to >read the fine print regarding all the side effects to penicillin alone, it >would be enough IMO to keep you from ever taking it again. If doctors were worried about the side effects, they wouldn't have very many patients left, because there would be very little they could do for them. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us & source=wlmai\ ltagline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2006 Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 That 0.26 per million population, is that only out of those undergoing a dental procedure in the first place or, as it sounds by the wording, out of everyone, even those not going to the dentist? If the latter, it seems an unfair comparison. - > > >From: " Skipper Beers " <lsb149@...> > > Here's an interesting quote on endocardits vs. the risk of antibiotics > > http://www.rcsed.ac.uk/journal/svol1_4/10400002.html > " To put the risk-benefit into perspective, it has been estimated that 1.36 > people per million population are likely to die from penicillin- induced > anaphylaxis to prevent infective endocarditis, whereas only 0.26 deaths per > million population are due to dental procedure-induced endocarditis.15 Put > another way, patients receiving penicillin (amoxicillin) prophylaxis to > prevent infective endocarditis are five times more likely to die from an > anaphylactic reaction to the drug than to die from contracting endocarditis > if no cover was provided. Thus, it would appear from these statistics that > the risk of providing cover to prevent infective endocarditis is far greater > than not providing cover. " > > This is their opinon of course, and people should make up their own mind as > to whether to take antibiotics before dental work or not. But, it is my > belief when they quantify the value of taking antibiotics they treat them as > if they were 100% safe and 100% effective, which they're not. I've seen my > wife have enough allergic reactions to drugs to believe it is not safe to > take them, and I think the quantity of her allergic reactions to drugs has > to do with her MVP, an added risk condition for endocarditis, but also an > added risk for drug allergies. > > Why it's good idea to have hydrocortisone (or prednisone) on hand in case > you have allergic reactions because it can be helpful. That's what they > give you in the ER. Epipens' are also helpful, but haven't had to use one. > > So, I would say rinse the mouth thoroughly with antiseptic before going to > the dentist's office. (Actually they ought to provide an antiseptic rinse > before they clean or fill your teeth.) Rinsing with hydrogen peroxide, > would be good, I haven't had a sore throat since I started rinsing with > hydrogen peroxide every day. (Did you know every cell in your body has > hydrogen peroxide, and it's used to treat infection?) An iodine rinse > wouldn't hurt either. > > Those on hydrocortisone need to take extra before dental work, as it's quite > hard on us. > > Iodine is probably a good thing to have in your system. > > Skipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2006 Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 What the heck is endocarditis? Re: endocarditis That 0.26 per million population, is that only out of thoseundergoing a dental procedure in the first place or, as itsounds by the wording, out of everyone, even those not goingto the dentist? If the latter, it seems an unfair comparison.->> >From: "Skipper Beers" <lsb149@...>> > Here's an interesting quote on endocardits vs. the risk of antibiotics> > http://www.rcsed.ac.uk/journal/svol1_4/10400002.html> "To put the risk-benefit into perspective, it has been estimated that 1.36 > people per million population are likely to die from penicillin-induced > anaphylaxis to prevent infective endocarditis, whereas only 0.26 deaths per > million population are due to dental procedure-induced endocarditis.15 Put > another way, patients receiving penicillin (amoxicillin) prophylaxis to > prevent infective endocarditis are five times more likely to die from an > anaphylactic reaction to the drug than to die from contracting endocarditis > if no cover was provided. Thus, it would appear from these statistics that > the risk of providing cover to prevent infective endocarditis is far greater > than not providing cover."> > This is their opinon of course, and people should make up their own mind as > to whether to take antibiotics before dental work or not. But, it is my > belief when they quantify the value of taking antibiotics they treat them as > if they were 100% safe and 100% effective, which they're not. I've seen my > wife have enough allergic reactions to drugs to believe it is not safe to > take them, and I think the quantity of her allergic reactions to drugs has > to do with her MVP, an added risk condition for endocarditis, but also an > added risk for drug allergies.> > Why it's good idea to have hydrocortisone (or prednisone) on hand in case > you have allergic reactions because it can be helpful. That's what they > give you in the ER. Epipens' are also helpful, but haven't had to use one.> > So, I would say rinse the mouth thoroughly with antiseptic before going to > the dentist's office. (Actually they ought to provide an antiseptic rinse > before they clean or fill your teeth.) Rinsing with hydrogen peroxide, > would be good, I haven't had a sore throat since I started rinsing with > hydrogen peroxide every day. (Did you know every cell in your body has > hydrogen peroxide, and it's used to treat infection?) An iodine rinse > wouldn't hurt either.> > Those on hydrocortisone need to take extra before dental work, as it's quite > hard on us.> > Iodine is probably a good thing to have in your system.> > Skipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2006 Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 >From: " " <truepatriot@...> >That 0.26 per million population, is that only out of those >undergoing a dental procedure in the first place or, as it >sounds by the wording, out of everyone, even those not going >to the dentist? If the latter, it seems an unfair comparison. The .26 is the figure of those dying from endocardits. The 1.36 per million says, " it has been estimated that 1.36 people per million population are likely to die from penicillin- induced anaphylaxis to prevent infective endocarditis " This implies it's those getting the antibiotic for dental procedures. If this is correct, then it means more die from the antibiotic. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Spaces is here! It’s easy to create your own personal Web site. http://spaces.live.com/signup.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2006 Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 >From: " Gikas " <skg59@...> >What the heck is endocarditis? A very bad infection in the heart. http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4436 Bacterial endocarditis is an infection of the heart's inner lining (endocardium) or the heart valves. This can damage or even destroy your heart valves. http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic164.htm Frequency: * In the US: Incidence is 1.4-4.2 cases per 100,000 people per year. Approximately 70% of cases are caused by Streptococcus species including Streptococcus viridans, Streptococcus bovis, and enterococci. Staphylococcus species cause 25% of cases and generally demonstrate a more aggressive acute course. *********************** They've never done studies to see which has the best outcome - http://www.clevelandclinicmeded.com/diseasemanagement/infectiousdisease/prophyla\ xis/prophylaxis.htm There are no large randomized controlled trials of prophylaxis versus no prophylaxis, and none could be ethically performed at the present time given that prophylaxis has become the standard of care within the guidelines described above. Similarly, no randomized trials of one type of prophylaxis versus another have been performed. Since endocarditis is a relatively uncommon condition, and many episodes of endocarditis are not linked to procedures, such a study would require a huge sample size of patients and is unlikely ever to take place. ************************************* See, they already know the answer so a study can't ethically be perfomed. The other side on the argument believes that it's highly possible that more people will die from taking the antibiotics, or have other nasty reactions to them. So, a patient can believe their dentist or doctor and take antibiotics before dental work, like cleaning, or they can decide for themselves based on the limited research. It generally only affects those with heart valve problems, but there are exceptions. Since it's strep 70% of the time, you can also get it from strep throat, other surgeries, or brushing your teeth. Some sites say that dental procedures only cause 4% of the cases. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Search from any web page with powerful protection. Get the FREE Windows Live Toolbar Today! http://get.live.com/toolbar/overview Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 FYI... be careful rinsing your mouth with H2O2 if you have mercury in your teeth. H2O2 reacts with mercury and other metals. It may loosen fillings and crowns. I'm sure there is some info on the net about this.... be careful. Suzanne > > >From: " Skipper Beers " <lsb149@...> > > Here's an interesting quote on endocardits vs. the risk of antibiotics > > http://www.rcsed.ac.uk/journal/svol1_4/10400002.html > " To put the risk-benefit into perspective, it has been estimated that 1.36 > people per million population are likely to die from penicillin- induced > anaphylaxis to prevent infective endocarditis, whereas only 0.26 deaths per > million population are due to dental procedure-induced endocarditis.15 Put > another way, patients receiving penicillin (amoxicillin) prophylaxis to > prevent infective endocarditis are five times more likely to die from an > anaphylactic reaction to the drug than to die from contracting endocarditis > if no cover was provided. Thus, it would appear from these statistics that > the risk of providing cover to prevent infective endocarditis is far greater > than not providing cover. " > > This is their opinon of course, and people should make up their own mind as > to whether to take antibiotics before dental work or not. But, it is my > belief when they quantify the value of taking antibiotics they treat them as > if they were 100% safe and 100% effective, which they're not. I've seen my > wife have enough allergic reactions to drugs to believe it is not safe to > take them, and I think the quantity of her allergic reactions to drugs has > to do with her MVP, an added risk condition for endocarditis, but also an > added risk for drug allergies. > > Why it's good idea to have hydrocortisone (or prednisone) on hand in case > you have allergic reactions because it can be helpful. That's what they > give you in the ER. Epipens' are also helpful, but haven't had to use one. > > So, I would say rinse the mouth thoroughly with antiseptic before going to > the dentist's office. (Actually they ought to provide an antiseptic rinse > before they clean or fill your teeth.) Rinsing with hydrogen peroxide, > would be good, I haven't had a sore throat since I started rinsing with > hydrogen peroxide every day. (Did you know every cell in your body has > hydrogen peroxide, and it's used to treat infection?) An iodine rinse > wouldn't hurt either. > > Those on hydrocortisone need to take extra before dental work, as it's quite > hard on us. > > Iodine is probably a good thing to have in your system. > > Skipper > > _________________________________________________________________ > Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE > http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en- us & source=wlmailtagline > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 >From: " Suzanne " <gddsssuze@...> >FYI... be careful rinsing your mouth with H2O2 if you have mercury in >your teeth. H2O2 reacts with mercury and other metals. It may >loosen fillings and crowns. I'm sure there is some info on the net >about this.... be careful. I've head that. But I've been using hydrogen peroxide to brush my teeth with for a couple years now. I can't tell that it has any effect on the mercury, though one should be cautious, and I do have a lot. I will say my teeth feel a lot better since I started taking iodine every day. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Check the weather nationwide with MSN Search: Try it now! http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=weather & FORM=WLMTAG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 So far, Skipper, this is all I can find for a reference, but maybe I'm not searching with the right words. This " side effect " of H2O2 is not well known YET. In my own experience I had a crown loosen up when brushing with H2O2 solution. It is my understanding that the H2O2 breaks down the hydrogen bonding in metals and so fillings crowns can loosen and fall out. http://www.drhuldaclark.org/product_productavoid2.asp Hydrogen peroxide, food grade. It is advantageous to kill bacteria and viruses to some extent every day. Hydrogen peroxide lets you do this. It should never come in contact with metal, including its container or metal tooth fillings. If you get a few drops on your skin it may turn white and sting, but does no harm, so simply wash it off. Instructions for its use come with the product. Suzanne > > >From: " Suzanne " <gddsssuze@...> > > >FYI... be careful rinsing your mouth with H2O2 if you have mercury in > >your teeth. H2O2 reacts with mercury and other metals. It may > >loosen fillings and crowns. I'm sure there is some info on the net > >about this.... be careful. > > I've head that. But I've been using hydrogen peroxide to brush my teeth > with for a couple years now. I can't tell that it has any effect on the > mercury, though one should be cautious, and I do have a lot. > > I will say my teeth feel a lot better since I started taking iodine every > day. > > Skipper > > _________________________________________________________________ > Check the weather nationwide with MSN Search: Try it now! > http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=weather & FORM=WLMTAG > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 >From: " Suzanne " <gddsssuze@...> >Reply-iodine >iodine >Subject: Re: endocarditis >Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:42:20 -0000 > >So far, Skipper, this is all I can find for a reference, but maybe >I'm not searching with the right words. This " side effect " of H2O2 is >not well known YET. " Side effects " other than causing mercury to disintegrate? Not likely since every cell in your body has H2O2, as does honey. As for the mercury, I brush my teeth with it and don't seem to have problem. I've done this for a couple years and haven't needed a filling replaced in that time. > >In my own experience I had a crown loosen up when brushing with H2O2 >solution. I don't have crowns. Definitely wouldn't have both crowns and fillings of different metal types because that can cause bad electical polarity in the mouth. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us & source=wlmai\ ltagline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 infective endocarditis http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/160/18/2781 -------------------------------- fungal endocarditis,picture,dont freak out if you look at this http://www.brown.edu/Courses/Digital_Path/systemic_path/cardio/fungalend o.html ----------------- toxic endocarditis http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-3862395.html --------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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