Re: Agar Agar for detoxing

[Guest guest]

Dr Marinkovich recommended CSM laterr in the treatment process. He also

recommended MEDMEX.com The price of drugs is much better. Spornax in states

is $11.00 a pill. Med mex is 1.00. You don't need a script either

a

barb1283 <barb1283@...> wrote: I heard

somewhere that Dr Marinkovich used agar agar for detoxing

instead of CSM. Don't know if that is true but if someone knows wheter

and how he recommended using it, will you email me offlist about it?

It's something I can get otc, so since I cannot get CSM, it's something

I could try. I have definate symptom relief, so I should be able to

tell if it is helping me. Thanks

---------------------------------

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

>

> I heard somewhere that Dr Marinkovich used agar agar for detoxing

> instead of CSM. Don't know if that is true but if someone knows wheter

> and how he recommended using it,

Yes, Dr. M did rec. using it as an alternative to CSM but I haven't

tried it yet. I decided to get the compounded version of CSM instead.

[Guest guest]

a, so you have by chance, all these different treatments wrote

down with their uses and where to get them, how to mis them ect. I'd

love to have a list. can't remember all this stuff. please let me

know if you do. thanks.

In , a Townsend <kmtown2003@...>

wrote:

>

> Dr Marinkovich recommended CSM laterr in the treatment process. He

also recommended MEDMEX.com The price of drugs is much better.

Spornax in states is $11.00 a pill. Med mex is 1.00. You don't

need a script either

> a

>

> barb1283 <barb1283@...> wrote: I

heard somewhere that Dr Marinkovich used agar agar for detoxing

> instead of CSM. Don't know if that is true but if someone knows

wheter

> and how he recommended using it, will you email me offlist about

it?

> It's something I can get otc, so since I cannot get CSM, it's

something

> I could try. I have definate symptom relief, so I should be able

to

> tell if it is helping me. Thanks

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile.

Try it now.

>

>

[Guest guest]

" Detox " is a very broad category. but many so called Detox Products

are Useless On Mold Illness, At Least That Is What I Have Gathered.

[Guest guest]

your right Live, no amount of detox is going to cure damaged organs and

fix fibrotic tissue and the pathways these toxins have made. thats why

it's so important for people and their doctors to reconize exposure

symptoms early before the damage is done.

In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote:

>

> " Detox " is a very broad category. but many so called Detox Products

> are Useless On Mold Illness, At Least That Is What I Have Gathered.

>

[Guest guest]

Jeanine,

Thats not what I was trying to say at all. What I was getting at was that

since we know that cholestyramine helps people with mold illness, and

that many other so called " detox products " don't, we should not

muddy the issue by confusing everybody. What we should concentrate on

is both getting cholestyramine (which is I think, a mature enough technology

to be taken off the " experimental " list and put in every doctor's tool kit for

fighting mold illness. ly, I don't know why it isn't.

There is no excuse for it not being.

On Jan 18, 2008 2:02 PM, who <jeaninem660@...> wrote:

>

> your right Live, no amount of detox is going to cure damaged organs and

> fix fibrotic tissue and the pathways these toxins have made. thats why

> it's so important for people and their doctors to reconize exposure

> symptoms early before the damage is done.

>

>

Yes, it is very important for them to recognize mold illness symptoms early,

but that wont happen unless we stop arguing about things that were decided

a LONG time ago and move on.

The interests of the people who need treatment are SO much more important than

the interests of WHOEVER is trying to keep us sick, DOLLAR WISE, that the fact

that there isn't a serious government initiative to move this forward

is a CRIME.

People are really sick and not getting better. Its costing our economy

a lot of money.

> In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote:

> >

> > " Detox " is a very broad category. but many so called Detox Products

> > are Useless On Mold Illness, At Least That Is What I Have Gathered.

> >

[Guest guest]

theres a range of options out there and people need to know. who says

everyone wants to take csm 4 times a day for the rest of their lives.

and if it's also binding important nutrients than we need suppkaments

too. whats wrong with alternating or incorperating detox programs.

some people may want to take a total natural approach.not everyone

runs to a doctor wuth every sniffle. not everyone can afford to. what

do you mean mudding the waters? there already about as muddy as they

can get.

> >

> > your right Live, no amount of detox is going to cure damaged

organs and

> > fix fibrotic tissue and the pathways these toxins have made.

thats why

> > it's so important for people and their doctors to reconize

exposure

> > symptoms early before the damage is done.

> >

> >

> Yes, it is very important for them to recognize mold illness

symptoms early,

> but that wont happen unless we stop arguing about things that were

decided

> a LONG time ago and move on.

>

> The interests of the people who need treatment are SO much more

important than

> the interests of WHOEVER is trying to keep us sick, DOLLAR WISE,

that the fact

> that there isn't a serious government initiative to move this

forward

> is a CRIME.

>

> People are really sick and not getting better. Its costing our

economy

> a lot of money.

>

>

> > In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > " Detox " is a very broad category. but many so called Detox

Products

> > > are Useless On Mold Illness, At Least That Is What I Have

Gathered.

> > >

>

[Guest guest]

dont get me wrong, yes it would be grest if doctors reconized the

first symptoms, did the right tests and prescribed csm and/or other

options, but they also have to makr that patient aware they they have

to get out of the moldy environment or nothing is going to help them.

and in some cases caught soon enough, getting out may be all they

need. really the cause needs a answer more than anything. thing is,

most of us here are past the point where er have a great chance to

tottally regain our health. sad but true. I hope this testing and

studys to reverse fibrotic tissue damage pans out cause that may help.

all many of us can do is try to not get worse and I want to hear

about what other try than deside if I want to try it or not.

> > > >

> > > > " Detox " is a very broad category. but many so called Detox

> Products

> > > > are Useless On Mold Illness, At Least That Is What I Have

> Gathered.

> > > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I think it's reasonable to talk about other things that help, even if

not as good as CSM since some people cannot get it. I need something

right now, so I can't wait for laws to be changed.

Even if CSM is the best, I think it's reasonable to think other

things might help. The body must have some way to detox from mold.

Otherwise man would have been deleted from kingdom on earth long time

ago, before CSM was developed. Anything that lowers cholesterol by

binding to fiber must also drag bile out, otherwise it wouldn't lower

cholesterol. However maybe to equal the affect of CSM by something

like oatmeal for example, which has been proven to lower cholesterol

by it's binding action, may take 5 bowls of oatmeal 4 times a day to

equal drinking the CSM, so one couldn't do that reasonably. However

if one cannot right now get CSM, it's reasonable to use other things

that lower cholesterol by it's binding action, I believe that is

soluable fiber. I'd have to double check but think soluable fibers

are the ones that have been described as helping to lower cholesterol

and oatmeal is soluable fiber and so is agar agar. I'm talking about

studies that have shown certain things to lower cholesterol by

binding with fiber, rather than cholesterol lowering drugs. I don't

know how cholesterol lowering drugs help but I think Dr Shoe

recommends those too, right?? I'm not sure if Dr Shoe recommends

cholesterol lowering drugs too...just thought I heard something like

that but perhaps 'drug' was something like Welchol which actually

works by binding bile to fibers like CSM.

Insoluable fiber hassen the rate at which food goes through digestive

tract but nothing binds to it.

[Guest guest]

Dr Rae, and other alternative docs, recommends some patients start with

sweating via sauna but this is general detox for all sorts of toxins in

system, not specifically addressed to mold, but a route out of body for

toxins that don't allow for reabsorption.

>

> theres a range of options out there and people need to know.

[Guest guest]

Jeanine,

I think that its a question of chemistry. I guess what I am getting at

is the question 'what is this hypothetical person trying to detox

from'?

Do they know what it is with any certainty or even if 'detox' is what

they need and not some other kind of care?

Since we're here, lets assume that the person is suffering from fairly

recent mold exposure. Looking for stuff on " agar " I found

lots of stuff on growing mold on different kinds of agar but nothing

on binding mold toxins with it. Maybe I was using the wrong

search terms?

On Jan 18, 2008 3:38 PM, who <jeaninem660@...> wrote:

>

> theres a range of options out there

Thats true, but only a limited number of them are likely to WORK.

Thats what I'm trying to get to. I want to see comfortable

AFFORDABLE mycotoxin binding aids available as much as any of us.

Actually, to be blunt, its something I want to see

tremendously. I'm totally with you on this. I know what its like to

not have insurance too. Ive been there.

Stop being so defensive. Hear me out.

> and people need to know. who says

> everyone wants to take csm 4 times a day for the rest of their lives.

Thats an extreme situation that people do when they are getting over a

recent, strong mold exposure. Even people like me who

had a very long, strong (at times) exposure, I doubt if they take it

four times a day. I do think its in my fat so I do take it. I'm hoping

that eventually I wont need to take it anymore but I suspect it will

be for a while. Ive made my peace with it.

> and if it's also binding important nutrients than we need suppkaments

> too. whats wrong with alternating or incorperating detox programs.

Detox for what? If someone has a test of some other kind that says

they need some other kind of detox, thats a

completely different animal and I am not talking about that at all.

> some people may want to take a total natural approach.not everyone

> runs to a doctor wuth every sniffle. not everyone can afford to. what

> do you mean mudding the waters? there already about as muddy as they

> can get.

>

I don't follow you. I think that PubMed is there for people who want

to explore the various stuff thats out there on binding mycotoxins.

We really should get someone like Dr. Shoemaker to weigh in on this. I

don't know enough to really carry it much further.

Look, the best therapy is avoidance. Mold will cause illness and

cholestyramine is basically harm reduction, NOT harm elimination. Dr.

Shoemaker is right in saying that its important to get out first.

Obviously, though, many people, though, don't have anywhere to go.

They are sick and they can't rent when they are unemployed. They don't

have family or friends that will take them in. Many people don't

understand the lack of choices people often have. Thats why some of us

here try to figure out what might help people, often like we did for

ourselves when we were in the same situation. But mold causes damage

when it makes contact with the body. The whole concept of using

cholestyramine, etc. is binding mycotoxins WHEN THEY GET INTO THE

BILE. Its a bit like HEPA filtration. The idea is to take a little bit

out each time it goes through the filter. BUT A BETTER SOLUTION WOULD

BE TO NOT HAVE IT GET THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Sure, many people can't afford to go to the doctor. WHY DON'T YOU

WRITE YOUR SENATORS AND CONGRESSPEOPLE AND TELL THEM ABOUT THIS

SITUATION? Tell them about cholestyramine. That thousands of people

take it and need it. Tell them that mold makes you sick. That the

idiot insurance companies wont cover care for mold illness. Tell them

about the ACOEM. Thats the way to actually SOLVE this problem. We are

not CRIMINALS - we should not sneak around and apologize for getting

sick!

So, that said, I have read A LONG TIME AGO, that activated charcoal

works, in some of these applications. A guess, say half as well as CSM

for binding a fairly wide range of mycotoxins BUT I AM PRETTY SURE IT

DOES NOT BIND ALL OF THEM. In other words, it works somewhat for some,

but not at all for some. Thats not as good as I would want.

To the best of my knowledge, all mycotoxins that cause health issues

cause those issues as they go into the body. When I was living in that

moldy apartment, my whole body felt dried up, like a prune, literally,

and everywhere my dry skin cracked, it hurt. That was caused by mold.

Every time I tried to clean up, and especially as I was trying to

pack, I got really ill. My eyes were getting cloudy. (like you, a lot

like what you describe) etc, etc. My health is still really screwed

up. Cholestyramine helped, I could feel it helping, but IT CAN ONLY

HELP SO MUCH.

Jeanine, you need to get out of there. You need a plan to get out -

There are other things you can do. Do you have a cheap HVR? I bet they

would help a lot of people. You never hear people on here talking

about them. Instead its air filters.

Sometimes I think, whats the point...

Ad infinitum...

[Guest guest]

I wish you would not discourage people from discussing alternate ways

to detox, when they cannot get CSM. You or people who use CSM could

use them for additional detoxification and people who can't get it at

all, can get some benefit. To follow your line of thinking, if

people cannot get CSM, they shouldn't try anything at all.

> >

> > theres a range of options out there

>

> Thats true, but only a limited number of them are likely to WORK.

> Thats what I'm trying to get to. I want to see comfortable

> AFFORDABLE mycotoxin binding aids available as much as any of us.

> Actually, to be blunt, its something I want to see

> tremendously. I'm totally with you on this. I know what its like to

> not have insurance too. Ive been there.

> Stop being so defensive. Hear me out.

>

> > and people need to know. who says

> > everyone wants to take csm 4 times a day for the rest of their

lives.

>

> Thats an extreme situation that people do when they are getting

over a

> recent, strong mold exposure. Even people like me who

> had a very long, strong (at times) exposure, I doubt if they take it

> four times a day. I do think its in my fat so I do take it. I'm

hoping

> that eventually I wont need to take it anymore but I suspect it will

> be for a while. Ive made my peace with it.

>

> > and if it's also binding important nutrients than we need

suppkaments

> > too. whats wrong with alternating or incorperating detox

programs.

> Detox for what? If someone has a test of some other kind that says

> they need some other kind of detox, thats a

> completely different animal and I am not talking about that at all.

>

> > some people may want to take a total natural approach.not

everyone

> > runs to a doctor wuth every sniffle. not everyone can afford to.

what

> > do you mean mudding the waters? there already about as muddy as

they

> > can get.

> >

>

> I don't follow you. I think that PubMed is there for people who want

> to explore the various stuff thats out there on binding mycotoxins.

>

> We really should get someone like Dr. Shoemaker to weigh in on

this. I

> don't know enough to really carry it much further.

>

> Look, the best therapy is avoidance. Mold will cause illness and

> cholestyramine is basically harm reduction, NOT harm elimination.

Dr.

> Shoemaker is right in saying that its important to get out first.

> Obviously, though, many people, though, don't have anywhere to go.

> They are sick and they can't rent when they are unemployed. They

don't

> have family or friends that will take them in. Many people don't

> understand the lack of choices people often have. Thats why some of

us

> here try to figure out what might help people, often like we did for

> ourselves when we were in the same situation. But mold causes damage

> when it makes contact with the body. The whole concept of using

> cholestyramine, etc. is binding mycotoxins WHEN THEY GET INTO THE

> BILE. Its a bit like HEPA filtration. The idea is to take a little

bit

> out each time it goes through the filter. BUT A BETTER SOLUTION

WOULD

> BE TO NOT HAVE IT GET THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

>

> Sure, many people can't afford to go to the doctor. WHY DON'T YOU

> WRITE YOUR SENATORS AND CONGRESSPEOPLE AND TELL THEM ABOUT THIS

> SITUATION? Tell them about cholestyramine. That thousands of people

> take it and need it. Tell them that mold makes you sick. That the

> idiot insurance companies wont cover care for mold illness. Tell

them

> about the ACOEM. Thats the way to actually SOLVE this problem. We

are

> not CRIMINALS - we should not sneak around and apologize for getting

> sick!

>

> So, that said, I have read A LONG TIME AGO, that activated charcoal

> works, in some of these applications. A guess, say half as well as

CSM

> for binding a fairly wide range of mycotoxins BUT I AM PRETTY SURE

IT

> DOES NOT BIND ALL OF THEM. In other words, it works somewhat for

some,

> but not at all for some. Thats not as good as I would want.

>

> To the best of my knowledge, all mycotoxins that cause health issues

> cause those issues as they go into the body. When I was living in

that

> moldy apartment, my whole body felt dried up, like a prune,

literally,

> and everywhere my dry skin cracked, it hurt. That was caused by

mold.

> Every time I tried to clean up, and especially as I was trying to

> pack, I got really ill. My eyes were getting cloudy. (like you, a

lot

> like what you describe) etc, etc. My health is still really screwed

> up. Cholestyramine helped, I could feel it helping, but IT CAN ONLY

> HELP SO MUCH.

>

> Jeanine, you need to get out of there. You need a plan to get out -

>

> There are other things you can do. Do you have a cheap HVR? I bet

they

> would help a lot of people. You never hear people on here talking

> about them. Instead its air filters.

>

> Sometimes I think, whats the point...

>

> Ad infinitum...

>

[Guest guest]

Thats true only IF it is listed as a GENERAL DE TOX...there are numerous

de-tox remedies that are specific or thing such as heavy metals,

pesticdies, chemials etc

Only if someone is trying a homeopathic detox they EXPECT this IMMEIDATE

improvement etc. If they such all of a sudden get SICK then they claim it

made them SCIK, when in erality the product did EXACTLY wha tit was

suppose to do and the severity of your SICKNESS is preidcated on how toxic

your body was and with subsequent detoxes the SICKNESS will be less.

I have used homeopathy for years and have gone from the hardly noticable

to OH MY GAWD I am going to DIE!

Don't write off detox protocols unless you are sure it did not start to

work and you haveto keep doing it if the body is not that toxic.

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, LiveSimply wrote:

> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:26:53 -0500

> From: LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

> Reply-

>

> Subject: Re: [] Re: Agar Agar for detoxing

>

> " Detox " is a very broad category. but many so called Detox Products

> are Useless On Mold Illness, At Least That Is What I Have Gathered.

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Live? I need to get out of where?

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> Jeanine,

>

> I think that its a question of chemistry. I guess what I am getting

at

> is the question 'what is this hypothetical person trying to detox

> from'?

>

> Do they know what it is with any certainty or even if 'detox' is

what

> they need and not some other kind of care?

> Since we're here, lets assume that the person is suffering from

fairly

> recent mold exposure. Looking for stuff on " agar " I found

> lots of stuff on growing mold on different kinds of agar but nothing

> on binding mold toxins with it. Maybe I was using the wrong

> search terms?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Live, your my friend so please dont take that attitude with me. don't

say " oh, whats the point " like you know better than I do about what

has happened to me and I dont. I probably understand a few things

that you dont. who says that the foggy aquaus humor fluid in my eyes

is from mold or myco infection. I'm constantly now fughting bacterial

infections in my sinuses because of the shape their in.

I have suffered breakdown of brain barriors. the burning in my back

that accurs often is cns infection. be it fungi or bacteria, or

toxins, they aggervate and cause infections, if they are from whats

in me already or just irritants aggervateing the organ damage I have,

could be either/or. if the cns infection gets bad enough it causes

brain swelling and csf leaks out the ears and sinuses, if I live

through that, which so far I have (and none have been as bad as what

accured while I was exposed) than I fell much better after that

infected csf has left my body. if u really want to understand why the

fog is there, put " csf rhinorrhea,aqueous humor fluid infections " in

your search and check it out. Im not liveing in a overly moldy

apartment, trust me, if I was, I wouldn't be setting here typing at

all. and I'm not being defencive, and I practice advoidence, and I

dont tell everything on this board because I have a law suit, so

please dont assume anything when it comes to me.

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> Jeanine,

>

> I think that its a question of chemistry. I guess what I am getting

at

> is the question 'what is this hypothetical person trying to detox

> from'?

>

> Do they know what it is with any certainty or even if 'detox' is

what

> they need and not some other kind of care?

> Since we're here, lets assume that the person is suffering from

fairly

> recent mold exposure. Looking for stuff on " agar " I found

> lots of stuff on growing mold on different kinds of agar but nothing

> on binding mold toxins with it. Maybe I was using the wrong

> search terms?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Milk Thistle drastically lowered my liver enzymes when I was first

exposed to mold. It supposedly binds to the toxins and removes them.

My P.A. recommends it to his patients with liver problems. It also

helps to regenerate the liver.

Barth

www.presenting.net/sbs/sbs.html

SUBMIT YOUR DOCTOR: www.presenting.net/sbs/molddoctors.html

---

b> I think it's reasonable to talk about other things that help, even if

b> not as good as CSM since some people cannot get it. I need something

b> right now, so I can't wait for laws to be changed.

b> Even if CSM is the best, I think it's reasonable to think other

b> things might help. The body must have some way to detox from mold.

b> Otherwise man would have been deleted from kingdom on earth long time

b> ago, before CSM was developed. Anything that lowers cholesterol by

b> binding to fiber must also drag bile out, otherwise it wouldn't lower

b> cholesterol. However maybe to equal the affect of CSM by something

b> like oatmeal for example, which has been proven to lower cholesterol

b> by it's binding action, may take 5 bowls of oatmeal 4 times a day to

b> equal drinking the CSM, so one couldn't do that reasonably. However

b> if one cannot right now get CSM, it's reasonable to use other things

b> that lower cholesterol by it's binding action, I believe that is

b> soluable fiber. I'd have to double check but think soluable fibers

b> are the ones that have been described as helping to lower cholesterol

b> and oatmeal is soluable fiber and so is agar agar. I'm talking about

b> studies that have shown certain things to lower cholesterol by

b> binding with fiber, rather than cholesterol lowering drugs. I don't

b> know how cholesterol lowering drugs help but I think Dr Shoe

b> recommends those too, right?? I'm not sure if Dr Shoe recommends

b> cholesterol lowering drugs too...just thought I heard something like

b> that but perhaps 'drug' was something like Welchol which actually

b> works by binding bile to fibers like CSM.

b> Insoluable fiber hassen the rate at which food goes through digestive

b> tract but nothing binds to it.

[Guest guest]

Barb,

I don't think that milk thistle binds to the toxins per se so in that

sense, its not the same as cholestyramine at all.

HOWEVER IT DOES HELP WITH LIVER FUNCTION... and many people have said

it helped. I think that it helped me.

I don't need it that often anymore. When I was getting liver pain

(daily when I was living in mold and then gradually decreasing but

still there for almost a year after I got out-) it would help get rid

of that constant ache for a while.

I spent a huge amount of money on supplements of one kind or another.

All and all this has all cost me a HUGE amount of money. It will cost

all of us that.

But I have to get 100% better. I can't survive without work.

I think the biggest cost is the inablility to get individual insurance

and the possible blacklisting to get a job that offers group

insurance. (Some states like Calif. ban this but they often manage to

figure out ways around it.)

Is that why all of you are so afraid to go to doctors? Now I

understand. That makes sense.

On Jan 19, 2008 3:38 AM, Patilla DaHun <glypella@...> wrote:

> Milk Thistle drastically lowered my liver enzymes when I was first

> exposed to mold. It supposedly binds to the toxins and removes them.

> My P.A. recommends it to his patients with liver problems. It also

> helps to regenerate the liver.

>

> Barth

>

> www.presenting.net/sbs/sbs.html

>

[Guest guest]

of course, my husband is hooking up my scanner for me so i

ll send as soon as able.

When are you going to DR?

who <jeaninem660@...> wrote: a,

so you have by chance, all these different treatments wrote

down with their uses and where to get them, how to mis them ect. I'd

love to have a list. can't remember all this stuff. please let me

know if you do. thanks.

[Guest guest]

Barb, yes, as I understand, at Dr. Rea's they do series of massauges

followed by sauna's to release toxins trapped in tissues and get them

out through the skin. have someine with you cause it may make you

very weak depending on how bad of shape your in. thats my

understanding of it. I thought you went there ?

> > >

> > > theres a range of options out there

> >

> > Thats true, but only a limited number of them are likely to WORK.

> > Thats what I'm trying to get to. I want to see comfortable

> > AFFORDABLE mycotoxin binding aids available as much as any of us.

> > Actually, to be blunt, its something I want to see

> > tremendously. I'm totally with you on this. I know what its like

to

> > not have insurance too. Ive been there.

> > Stop being so defensive. Hear me out.

> >

> > > and people need to know. who says

> > > everyone wants to take csm 4 times a day for the rest of their

> lives.

> >

> > Thats an extreme situation that people do when they are getting

> over a

> > recent, strong mold exposure. Even people like me who

> > had a very long, strong (at times) exposure, I doubt if they take

it

> > four times a day. I do think its in my fat so I do take it. I'm

> hoping

> > that eventually I wont need to take it anymore but I suspect it

will

> > be for a while. Ive made my peace with it.

> >

> > > and if it's also binding important nutrients than we need

> suppkaments

> > > too. whats wrong with alternating or incorperating detox

> programs.

> > Detox for what? If someone has a test of some other kind that says

> > they need some other kind of detox, thats a

> > completely different animal and I am not talking about that at

all.

> >

> > > some people may want to take a total natural approach.not

> everyone

> > > runs to a doctor wuth every sniffle. not everyone can afford

to.

> what

> > > do you mean mudding the waters? there already about as muddy

as

> they

> > > can get.

> > >

> >

> > I don't follow you. I think that PubMed is there for people who

want

> > to explore the various stuff thats out there on binding

mycotoxins.

> >

> > We really should get someone like Dr. Shoemaker to weigh in on

> this. I

> > don't know enough to really carry it much further.

> >

> > Look, the best therapy is avoidance. Mold will cause illness and

> > cholestyramine is basically harm reduction, NOT harm elimination.

> Dr.

> > Shoemaker is right in saying that its important to get out first.

> > Obviously, though, many people, though, don't have anywhere to go.

> > They are sick and they can't rent when they are unemployed. They

> don't

> > have family or friends that will take them in. Many people don't

> > understand the lack of choices people often have. Thats why some

of

> us

> > here try to figure out what might help people, often like we did

for

> > ourselves when we were in the same situation. But mold causes

damage

> > when it makes contact with the body. The whole concept of using

> > cholestyramine, etc. is binding mycotoxins WHEN THEY GET INTO THE

> > BILE. Its a bit like HEPA filtration. The idea is to take a

little

> bit

> > out each time it goes through the filter. BUT A BETTER SOLUTION

> WOULD

> > BE TO NOT HAVE IT GET THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

> >

> > Sure, many people can't afford to go to the doctor. WHY DON'T YOU

> > WRITE YOUR SENATORS AND CONGRESSPEOPLE AND TELL THEM ABOUT THIS

> > SITUATION? Tell them about cholestyramine. That thousands of

people

> > take it and need it. Tell them that mold makes you sick. That the

> > idiot insurance companies wont cover care for mold illness. Tell

> them

> > about the ACOEM. Thats the way to actually SOLVE this problem. We

> are

> > not CRIMINALS - we should not sneak around and apologize for

getting

> > sick!

> >

> > So, that said, I have read A LONG TIME AGO, that activated

charcoal

> > works, in some of these applications. A guess, say half as well

as

> CSM

> > for binding a fairly wide range of mycotoxins BUT I AM PRETTY

SURE

> IT

> > DOES NOT BIND ALL OF THEM. In other words, it works somewhat for

> some,

> > but not at all for some. Thats not as good as I would want.

> >

> > To the best of my knowledge, all mycotoxins that cause health

issues

> > cause those issues as they go into the body. When I was living in

> that

> > moldy apartment, my whole body felt dried up, like a prune,

> literally,

> > and everywhere my dry skin cracked, it hurt. That was caused by

> mold.

> > Every time I tried to clean up, and especially as I was trying to

> > pack, I got really ill. My eyes were getting cloudy. (like you, a

> lot

> > like what you describe) etc, etc. My health is still really

screwed

> > up. Cholestyramine helped, I could feel it helping, but IT CAN

ONLY

> > HELP SO MUCH.

> >

> > Jeanine, you need to get out of there. You need a plan to get

out -

> >

> > There are other things you can do. Do you have a cheap HVR? I bet

> they

> > would help a lot of people. You never hear people on here talking

> > about them. Instead its air filters.

> >

> > Sometimes I think, whats the point...

> >

> > Ad infinitum...

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I posted a paper on " FR901459, a novel immunosuppressant isolated

from Stachybotrys chartarum No. 19392 " ?

Cyclosporin, which that paper shows, also occurs in stachybotrys,

impacts nitric oxide metabolism and this may be involved in a lot of

its negative effects on people. There's a small but growing body of

research that indicates that oral l-arginine supplementation may help

amielorate some of the cyclosporin effects.

I realize that everybody wants simple explanations for mold effects

and treatments but I think that any health professional trying to

address that need is going to run into one very huge problem in the

variety of mold products that have probably impacted people. A very

great many of them are biologically active. Some almost certainly have

permanent effects, others might be temporary in that te effect goes

away in hours or days, others may take several years but people might

heal as they might heal from say, a head injury or cancer

chemotherapy. (which is to say incompletely)

Thats the nature of the beast, I think.

I'm not saying this as any kind of professional, I'm saying it based

on what I know, with one important thing standing out and that is mold

evolves mycotoxjns to kill other living things and there are a huge

number of them, with most probably still unknown.

Thousands is probably an underestimation. There are probably thousands

of known species of fungi. I would say that there are probably

millions of biologically active fungal metabolites. (i.e. mycotoxins)

and the space of possible combinations of those active chemicals is

" infinitely large "

There are clearly general threads that work in treating mold illness

and people like Dr. Shoemaker and others are methodically working

their way through that space but its a big space with a lot of

unknowns. One thing that we DO know is that fungi evolve these

chemicals to kill each other.

We are the 'collateral damage' in that conflict.

[Guest guest]

I did go there but I was only there a week and although he recommended

it to me, I wasn't there long enough to try the sauna treatment.

>

> Barb, yes, as I understand, at Dr. Rea's they do series of massauges

> followed by sauna's to release toxins trapped in tissues and get them

> out through the skin. have someine with you cause it may make you

> very weak depending on how bad of shape your in. thats my

> understanding of it. I thought you went there ?

>

>

[Guest guest]

That is one of the ways the body eliminates toxins in general. I have

no idea how, if MOLD toxins come out in skin or sweat.

Perhaps research on human milk and mycotoxins might tell us something

about that? I don't KNOW.

If mold toxins are secreted in mothers milk then they may come out in

sweat. Mammary glands got started out as sweat glands millions of

years ago, I THINK, (this is pure speculation, YMMV, chew all theories

before swallowing, etc.)

If there are saunas in your area your local Swedes or Russians would

know.. ask them.. its a big part of their culture.. nothing like it..

really.. its great.

Heat may stimulate the body's natural response to eliminate toxins,

thats what fever is all about. Its not just about the sweating.

The extreme cold from post sauna immersion in ice water (the Russians

like to swim in icy streams!) also may do amazing things for the

body's resistance to illness.

Thousands of years of human knowledge and experience should not be

dismissed with a wave of the hand..

[Guest guest]

From what I've heard, general detoxing through sauna is done with the

goal of reducing the body's total burden of toxins, rather than

targeting specific toxins, with the idea that an overall reduction in

toxins helps your body's health in general and your immune system in

general.

[Guest guest]

I've heard theres some really good mineral body wraps out there for

detoxing too,these can give you some needed minerals. I dont think csm

just binds mycotoxins, I dont think it's selective like that. for that

matter, mycotoxins are not the only toxins we need elimanated. seams

much could be gained from doing combinations of detoxing.

>

> From what I've heard, general detoxing through sauna is done with the

> goal of reducing the body's total burden of toxins, rather than

> targeting specific toxins, with the idea that an overall reduction in

> toxins helps your body's health in general and your immune system in

> general.

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know if mold toxins come out in sweat. Its possible that some

do. It may vary dramatically from one to another.

Really, you should ask Dr. Shoemaker. He is the expert on this stuff.

I mentioned that saunas are good for toxin removal because its just

obvious - so many cultures use them. They are often human cultures

that live in the northern regions and spend a good part of the year

cooped up 'indoors' (although they use different building materials

and techniques) The various kinds of saunas are known for healing

people who have gotten very ill.

This was accepted knowledge when I grew up (60s/70s/80s) but many

people in the US seem to have forgotten it now. Maybe its because they

are more prudish?

For mold, though, cholestyramine is the way to go, if at all possible.

On Jan 20, 2008 3:15 PM, who <jeaninem660@...> wrote: