Re: Can mold ever really be remediated completely?

[Guest guest]

Hi -

I'm sure there will be a lot of answers to your questions, but why don't you

start by picking up a copy of the book Mold Warriors (moldwarriors.com) to learn

about the Cholestyramine protocol that should help you get toxins out of your

body and hopefully begin to get you feeling better.

~Haley

surellabaer <surellabaer@...> wrote:

Hi everyone-my MCS group recommended your group as I have a moldy

house problem that is making me very sick. I have literally been

working on it for a year now.

Every time it seems like the mold is gone it isn't. I have ripped off

all the walls in the basement, ripped down the ceiling pulled up the

floor, and now I think it's stuck in a spot that i don;t think I can

reach with spraying.

I know a mold remediation company will laugh at me-my mold tests came

out practically clean (one spot!) but even that is too much for me

right now.

I KNOW the mold is there (even though my husband thinks I'm crazy). I

smell it and my lungs feel it.

After thousands of dollars I'm getting really pessimistic-I can't

afford to move (I'll never be able to sell my house in this market)

and I'm willing to fight the mold but for how many more years?

Thanks for any suggestions! Surella

[Guest guest]

If you smell it and your lungs feel it, it's mold. I believe you.

[Guest guest]

There are so many varialbes, how sick you are, how bad the house is,

probably being the two most important.

read one of the most recent threads titled " As I suspected " some of these

issues are touched on there.

On Jan 19, 2008 6:50 PM, surellabaer < surellabaer@...> wrote:

> Hi everyone-my MCS group recommended your group as I have a moldy

> house problem that is making me very sick. I have literally been

> working on it for a year now.

> Every time it seems like the mold is gone it isn't. I have ripped off

> all the walls in the basement, ripped down the ceiling pulled up the

> floor, and now I think it's stuck in a spot that i don;t think I can

> reach with spraying.

> I know a mold remediation company will laugh at me-my mold tests came

> out practically clean (one spot!) but even that is too much for me

> right now.

> I KNOW the mold is there (even though my husband thinks I'm crazy). I

> smell it and my lungs feel it.

> After thousands of dollars I'm getting really pessimistic-I can't

> afford to move (I'll never be able to sell my house in this market)

> and I'm willing to fight the mold but for how many more years?

>

> Thanks for any suggestions! Surella

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Haley <myhaze@...> wrote: Hi -

I'm sure there will be a lot of answers to your questions, but why don't you

start by picking up a copy of the book Mold Warriors (moldwarriors.com) to learn

about the Cholestyramine protocol that should help you get toxins out of your

body and hopefully begin to get you feeling better.

~Haley

surellabaer <surellabaer@...> wrote:

Hi everyone-my MCS group recommended your group as I have a moldy

house problem that is making me very sick. I have literally been

working on it for a year now.

Every time it seems like the mold is gone it isn't. I have ripped off

all the walls in the basement, ripped down the ceiling pulled up the

floor, and now I think it's stuck in a spot that i don;t think I can

reach with spraying.

I know a mold remediation company will laugh at me-my mold tests came

out practically clean (one spot!) but even that is too much for me

right now.

I KNOW the mold is there (even though my husband thinks I'm crazy). I

smell it and my lungs feel it.

After thousands of dollars I'm getting really pessimistic-I can't

afford to move (I'll never be able to sell my house in this market)

and I'm willing to fight the mold but for how many more years?

Thanks for any suggestions! Surella

[Guest guest]

Yes. Mold can be remediated " completely. " It is done thousands of

times every day across the country. But as said there as

many variables. If those variables are not identified first and

specifically addressed in the remediation plan, plus verified

independantly, the situation will most likely be made worse. The

more sensitive you are the more difficult this becomes because

more diligence with all steps is necessary.

Everyone, consider this general statement when evaluating any bid

from a remediator or consultant. Notice those wanting to use

chemicals and other " magic bullets " rarely ever consider the

variables and diligence required for you. They have a one-response

for all and their energy is on convincing you to " buy " their

service. Doesn't work.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

On Sun Jan 20 01:34:40 CST 2008, robert christ

<antares4141@...> wrote:

> There are so many varialbes, how sick you are, how bad the house

> is,

> probably being the two most important.

> read one of the most recent threads titled " As I suspected " some

> of these

> issues are touched on there.

>

>

> On Jan 19, 2008 6:50 PM, surellabaer < surellabaer@...>

> wrote:

>

>> Hi everyone-my MCS group recommended your group as I have a

>> moldy

>> house problem that is making me very sick. I have literally been

>> working on it for a year now.

>> Every time it seems like the mold is gone it isn't. I have

>> ripped off

>> all the walls in the basement, ripped down the ceiling pulled up

>> the

>> floor, and now I think it's stuck in a spot that i don;t think I

>> can

>> reach with spraying.

>> I know a mold remediation company will laugh at me-my mold tests

>> came

>> out practically clean (one spot!) but even that is too much for

>> me

>> right now.

>> I KNOW the mold is there (even though my husband thinks I'm

>> crazy). I

>> smell it and my lungs feel it.

>> After thousands of dollars I'm getting really pessimistic-I can't

>> afford to move (I'll never be able to sell my house in this

>> market)

>> and I'm willing to fight the mold but for how many more years?

>>

>> Thanks for any suggestions! Surella

>>

>>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> >> Hi everyone-my MCS group recommended your group as I have a

> >> moldy

> >> house problem that is making me very sick. I have literally been

> >> working on it for a year now.

> >> Every time it seems like the mold is gone it isn't. I have

> >> ripped off

> >> all the walls in the basement, ripped down the ceiling pulled up

> >> the

> >> floor, and now I think it's stuck in a spot that i don;t think I

> >> can

> >> reach with spraying.

> >> I know a mold remediation company will laugh at me-my mold tests

> >> came

> >> out practically clean (one spot!) but even that is too much for

> >> me

> >> right now.

> >> I KNOW the mold is there (even though my husband thinks I'm

> >> crazy). I

> >> smell it and my lungs feel it.

> >> After thousands of dollars I'm getting really pessimistic-I can't

> >> afford to move (I'll never be able to sell my house in this

> >> market)

> >> and I'm willing to fight the mold but for how many more years?

> >>

> >> Thanks for any suggestions! Surella

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

If you think you are sick from mold you shouldn't be doing the ripping

out yourself. You could just expose yourself more and also fling mold

spores out to circulate through your home. If you have no choice,

hopefully you are wearing a good mask and 'coveralls' made by Tyvec

from some place like Home Depot to protect your clothes and skin, and

learn how to set up some sort of barrier to protect the rest of your

house.

--- In , " surellabaer " <surellabaer@...>

wrote:

>

> Hi everyone-my MCS group recommended your group as I have a moldy

> house problem that is making me very sick. I have literally been

> working on

[Guest guest]

Yes, of course mold can be remediated completely. Its simply a matter

of taking the effort. There are places where its exceedingly

affordable (not unusual if the mold was caused by a water leak that

was not extensive) and does not involve a lot of effort.

If a building problem has been ignored for a long time it really

starts depending on a lot of things. Is the building basically dry,

was the area where the water leaked ventilated or closed, how

extensive was the water damage.

People who have been made sick by a sick building require a building

to be MUCH cleaner than people who have never been made sick by a

massive mold exposure. The difference is that they are probably a

factor of at least 100 times more sensitive.

Once someone has been made sick in one moldy building then they will

be made sick by levels of mold that almost everybody else can

tolerate. Thats why there are so many lawsuits. People need the

building to be cleaned to a higher level of cleanliness than existed

before they got sick to remain working/living there.

They might have trouble in other moldy buildings too, or even in some

parts of the country (Often people have to move to another state where

its dryer.)

[Guest guest]

Carl, would your answer be the same if the insurance company came in first and

had their people rip out drywall, carpeting, etc. (spreading the spores and

toxins throughout the entire house)?

Re: [] Can mold ever really be remediated completely?

Yes. Mold can be remediated " completely. " It is done thousands of

times every day across the country. But as said there as

many variables. If those variables are not identified first and

specifically addressed in the remediation plan, plus verified

independantly, the situation will most likely be made worse. The

more sensitive you are the more difficult this becomes because

more diligence with all steps is necessary.

Everyone, consider this general statement when evaluating any bid

from a remediator or consultant. Notice those wanting to use

chemicals and other " magic bullets " rarely ever consider the

variables and diligence required for you. They have a one-response

for all and their energy is on convincing you to " buy " their

service. Doesn't work.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

On Sun Jan 20 01:34:40 CST 2008, robert christ

<antares4141@ gmail.com> wrote:

> There are so many varialbes, how sick you are, how bad the house

> is,

> probably being the two most important.

> read one of the most recent threads titled " As I suspected " some

> of these

> issues are touched on there.

>

>

> On Jan 19, 2008 6:50 PM, surellabaer < surellabaer@ gmail.com>

> wrote:

>

>> Hi everyone-my MCS group recommended your group as I have a

>> moldy

>> house problem that is making me very sick. I have literally been

>> working on it for a year now.

>> Every time it seems like the mold is gone it isn't. I have

>> ripped off

>> all the walls in the basement, ripped down the ceiling pulled up

>> the

>> floor, and now I think it's stuck in a spot that i don;t think I

>> can

>> reach with spraying.

>> I know a mold remediation company will laugh at me-my mold tests

>> came

>> out practically clean (one spot!) but even that is too much for

>> me

>> right now.

>> I KNOW the mold is there (even though my husband thinks I'm

>> crazy). I

>> smell it and my lungs feel it.

>> After thousands of dollars I'm getting really pessimistic- I can't

>> afford to move (I'll never be able to sell my house in this

>> market)

>> and I'm willing to fight the mold but for how many more years?

>>

>> Thanks for any suggestions! Surella

>>

>>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think there's a problem that many homeowners, especially need to

consider when they are weighing the various mold removal options and

that is that some mold remediation consultants are not trustworthy.

Some people can just hire people to come over and in essence,

pre-negotiate the price with them but even under the best of

conditions with trustworthy, capable remediators, it also happens that

once walls start getting cracked open, problems show up which were not

bargained for.

This can financially overwhelm some people.

Thats why this subject starts becoming FAR more complex than these

simple 'solutions' that get tossed around on here imply.

Personally, I think a lot of it depends #1 on how sick you are and

#2, #3, etcwhat your home repair and handyperson skills are and also -

and this is just reality, how much money you can afford to spend on

it.

There is often a path that needs to be undertaken ASAP that might not

involve spending a lot of money. The most important thing is to

minimize your own contact with known toxic mold, and minimize the

danger of it spreading.

I think that in any situation in which people are paying others to do

work and not being there they NEED TO HAVE A WATCHING EYE THERE TO SEE

WHAT IS DONE.

I would strongly recommend that people who can afford the ONLY A FEW

HUNDRED DOLLARS that they cost buy a video surveillance system that

can record what is being done and allow them to have a visual,

timestamped record of it.

Not only will they see what the remediators do, they can also see how

much time they spend.. This is useful in preventing misunderstandings

about hours.

On Jan 20, 2008 3:52 PM, <brianc8452@...> wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Carl, would your answer be the same if the insurance company came in first

> and had their people rip out drywall, carpeting, etc. (spreading the spores

> and toxins throughout the entire house)?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Speaking about the chemicals they use to remediate. Just try getting

a list of those chemicals. Something in writing. You probably won't

be able to. It's trade secret. Can just imagine!

Anyway the chemicals are quite toxic considering the men cleaning up

wear special clothes and masks etc. They do not suggest you move back

in for a while. This is not like spraying the inside of your home

with an aerosol mosquito spray. That's nothing!

And while they can spray, wash down the walls, absorb it all (mostly

all) back into the system from everywhere, they cannot get into your

furniture and and drawers. Also I found I had to rip up the old

carpeting and get new because my chemical threshold was raised so high

by the remediating.

A lot of this I did not know about. It still was worth it.

[Guest guest]

,

Insurance in one of the variables especially since they should

not be directing the remediation. Certainly not hiring the

contractor or consultant. Not unless they have the education,

training and experience to do so. Even then they are a party to

the job with an interest in keeping their cost down instead of

meeting your needs. Once done wrong, the cost to correct often

exceeds the original by a factor of 2 to 50. No matter mho does

it. It's not the who, it's the how.

Some one else asked, " Don't all remediators use chemicals? " The

answer is the correct ones RARELY use them. Chemicals are a

shortcut sold by fear and don't solve the moisture problem. they

are also a chemical source of exposure designed to kill. Not good

for people.

I'll answer more later but my flight is about to leave. I'll also

have some information from a medical conference I attended.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

On Sun Jan 20 14:52:09 CST 2008,

<brianc8452@...> wrote:

> Carl, would your answer be the same if the insurance company came

> in first and had their people rip out drywall, carpeting, etc.

> (spreading the spores and toxins throughout the entire house)?

>

>

> Re: [] Can mold ever really be remediated

> completely?

>

> Yes. Mold can be remediated " completely. " It is done thousands

> of times every day across the country. But as said there

> as many variables. If those variables are not identified first

> and specifically addressed in the remediation plan, plus verified

> independantly, the situation will most likely be made worse. The

> more sensitive you are the more difficult this becomes because

> more diligence with all steps is necessary.

>

> Everyone, consider this general statement when evaluating any bid

> from a remediator or consultant. Notice those wanting to use

> chemicals and other " magic bullets " rarely ever consider the

> variables and diligence required for you. They have a

> one-response for all and their energy is on convincing you to

> " buy " their service. Doesn't work.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> On Sun Jan 20 01:34:40 CST 2008, robert christ <antares4141@

> gmail.com> wrote:

>

>> There are so many varialbes, how sick you are, how bad the house

>> is,

>> probably being the two most important.

>> read one of the most recent threads titled " As I suspected " some

>> of these

>> issues are touched on there.

>>

>>

>> On Jan 19, 2008 6:50 PM, surellabaer < surellabaer@ gmail.com>

>> wrote:

>>

>>> Hi everyone-my MCS group recommended your group as I have a moldy

>>> house problem that is making me very sick. I have literally been

>>> working on it for a year now.

>>> Every time it seems like the mold is gone it isn't. I have

>>> ripped off

>>> all the walls in the basement, ripped down the ceiling pulled

>>> up the

>>> floor, and now I think it's stuck in a spot that i don;t think

>>> I can

>>> reach with spraying.

>>> I know a mold remediation company will laugh at me-my mold

>>> tests came

>>> out practically clean (one spot!) but even that is too much for

>>> me

>>> right now.

>>> I KNOW the mold is there (even though my husband thinks I'm

>>> crazy). I

>>> smell it and my lungs feel it.

>>> After thousands of dollars I'm getting really pessimistic- I

>>> can't

>>> afford to move (I'll never be able to sell my house in this

>>> market)

>>> and I'm willing to fight the mold but for how many more years?

>>>

>>> Thanks for any suggestions! Surella

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

In this case, the insurance company ripped out drywall, carpet and pad and then

carried some of the damaged materials through our house. They didn't use any

type of containment. And they also sprayed chemicals. In other words--a triple

whammy!!

Re: [] Can mold ever really be remediated

> completely?

>

> Yes. Mold can be remediated " completely. " It is done thousands

> of times every day across the country. But as said there

> as many variables. If those variables are not identified first

> and specifically addressed in the remediation plan, plus verified

> independantly, the situation will most likely be made worse. The

> more sensitive you are the more difficult this becomes because

> more diligence with all steps is necessary.

>

> Everyone, consider this general statement when evaluating any bid

> from a remediator or consultant. Notice those wanting to use

> chemicals and other " magic bullets " rarely ever consider the

> variables and diligence required for you. They have a

> one-response for all and their energy is on convincing you to

> " buy " their service. Doesn't work.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> On Sun Jan 20 01:34:40 CST 2008, robert christ <antares4141@

> gmail.com> wrote:

>

>> There are so many varialbes, how sick you are, how bad the house

>> is,

>> probably being the two most important.

>> read one of the most recent threads titled " As I suspected " some

>> of these

>> issues are touched on there.

>>

>>

>> On Jan 19, 2008 6:50 PM, surellabaer < surellabaer@ gmail.com>

>> wrote:

>>

>>> Hi everyone-my MCS group recommended your group as I have a moldy

>>> house problem that is making me very sick. I have literally been

>>> working on it for a year now.

>>> Every time it seems like the mold is gone it isn't. I have

>>> ripped off

>>> all the walls in the basement, ripped down the ceiling pulled

>>> up the

>>> floor, and now I think it's stuck in a spot that i don;t think

>>> I can

>>> reach with spraying.

>>> I know a mold remediation company will laugh at me-my mold

>>> tests came

>>> out practically clean (one spot!) but even that is too much for

>>> me

>>> right now.

>>> I KNOW the mold is there (even though my husband thinks I'm

>>> crazy). I

>>> smell it and my lungs feel it.

>>> After thousands of dollars I'm getting really pessimistic- I

>>> can't

>>> afford to move (I'll never be able to sell my house in this

>>> market)

>>> and I'm willing to fight the mold but for how many more years?

>>>

>>> Thanks for any suggestions! Surella

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Who reviews these insurance companies? Where can we read customer

experiences from different states? How they perform when people make

claims? They make so much money, but is there accountability?

[Guest guest]

Surella,

The general principles of mold remediation (with some discussion) are:

1. Identify the locations of the mold based on how it could be growing in a

particular location.

Sampling doesn't help with the latter. If you don't know where the mold " garden "

is you can't

remove it. The major clue is moisture. Where is it now wet or where has it been

wet in the

past? If damp for more than a few days then mold spores (seeds) have usually

sprouted and

grown into a mold organism (plant) called a colony. All this is too small to

see. Only after the

colony grows to be nearly as large as the diameter of human hair is it large

enough to see. (it

starts 10 to 100 times smaller than that).

Because mold growth begins so small, lab sampling can " sometimes " find it.

Usually

air sampling cannot for many reasons. (That's another tutorial. Archives

have much

info. Also, take the tutorial at www.epa.gov/iaq/molds). Surface sampling

might help.

Then it must be decided if the samples will be analyze by culturing,

microscopy or

PCR. Each gives a different set of information and none are definitive by

themselves.

This variable contains hundreds of variables with no consensus by experts.

Then,

someone needs to interpret the data, determine what it means. Even more

variable

enter the picture, especially the sensitivity of the individual and how

greatly it impacts

them. Some people can tolerate lots of mold with nuisance impact but others

react in

disabling, life altering ways regardless of the amount of mold. Another

reason

sampling isn't definitive.

2. Remove the mold. If you don't then you will continue to be exposed to it. No

different than

if you are in a house with a rabid pit bull. It won't stop attacking you until

you leave. But unlike

the pit bull, the mold continues even when dead. That's because parts of the

whole mold

organism that trigger reactions are still there. Killing it will stop infections

(growth inside the

body) but not the 99+% of the other effects. It must be gone. One reason

chemicals are

usually a waste of time and money. If the mold is removed, dead or alive, there

is nothing to

kill even if killing accomplished anything. (There are some exceptions, but it

should not be

routine or a first response).

3. Remove the mold in a manner that keeps it from being disturbed and spreading

throughout the house. Removal disturbs it so the area of work needs to be

separated from

the rest. Professionals do this with plastic sheeting and call it containment.

They also install

large HEPA filtered fans that pull air from the clean part of the house into the

work area and

then it is exhausted to the outside air.

4. Identify the moisture source (see step 1 above) so you can stop it to keep

the mold growth

from recurring. If you don't then mold will grow again. It doesn't have to be

the mold already

there. You can kill and kill and kill until you finally sterilize the area but

if it stays damp or gets

wet again then the mold that is always in the air will grow in the same spot,

just like it did the

first time.

One exception is small areas on smooth surfaces that can be easily removed with

hydrogen

peroxide, for example. However, the exact same effect can be achieved by wiping

the

surface with a damp cloth and a little detergent. Peroxide and bleach and other

" magic bullet "

chemicals work because they remove the mold, not because of any other reason.

Mycotoxins are another matter and not enough is known to make general statements

about

what is successful or not. Many in this group, however, have used a variety of

techniques that

worked at least for them. They can give better answers than I can.

Another consideration: Mold can only grow if there is moisture. But something

else grows

even quicker and to greater amounts with increasing evidence of greater health

impact than

mold: Bacteria. All the more reason to not just test or treat for mold. Mold is

visible but

bacteria (and other as yet to be identified stuff) isn't.

The fundamental issue is water damage, with visible mold being the symptom. If

you don't

remediate the " cause " then the symptom will continue.

Now, all the details I've given is still not enough information. Anyone

determining where mold

is, why it is there, how to remove it and how to keep it from coming back MUST

first

determine all these variables and others. But that still isn't enough!

What are you reacting to? What symptoms? How diligently must the cleanup be

before you

stop reacting? Is it even mold growth? About 1/3 of the jobs for my clients

isn't mold, but

something else. About half of the mold jobs also include other types of problems

having

nothing to do with mold. If you get rid of the pit bull (above) but not the

tiger, you will still have

a serious problem.

All this sounds really complicated but that is only because we have not been

taught the basic

information that leads to simple, common sense. Which makes us vulnerable to the

" snake

oil " salesmen selling " magic bullets). They work on our fears but the ethical

professionals

don't. However, you can use the information above to assist in evaluating what

" experts " tell

you.

CLUE: If their first response is to test or to treat with chemicals, tell them

to leave. Find

someone that will first identify the problem, if mold is even the problem, and

then offer you

options for a solution.

Sorry for the long answer, but I'm on a long flight. <grin>

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

>

> > >

> > >> Hi everyone-my MCS group recommended your group as I have a

> > >> moldy

> > >> house problem that is making me very sick. I have literally been

> > >> working on it for a year now.

> > >> Every time it seems like the mold is gone it isn't. I have

> > >> ripped off

> > >> all the walls in the basement, ripped down the ceiling pulled up

> > >> the

> > >> floor, and now I think it's stuck in a spot that i don;t think I

> > >> can

> > >> reach with spraying.

> > >> I know a mold remediation company will laugh at me-my mold tests

> > >> came

> > >> out practically clean (one spot!) but even that is too much for

> > >> me

> > >> right now.

> > >> I KNOW the mold is there (even though my husband thinks I'm

> > >> crazy). I

> > >> smell it and my lungs feel it.

> > >> After thousands of dollars I'm getting really pessimistic-I can't

> > >> afford to move (I'll never be able to sell my house in this

> > >> market)

> > >> and I'm willing to fight the mold but for how many more years?

> > >>

> > >> Thanks for any suggestions! Surella

> > >>

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

,

There are several possibilities when insurance companies are involved. Did an

employee of

the insurance company do the work or did the insurance company hire them? Or did

they

recommend them? Who signed the work authorization? It has to be the owner or

occupant

before they can enter and work, otherwise its trespassing. Each possibility

makes a

difference in terms of liability. Who determined what needed to be done? Was a

person who

was not connected with the insurance company or remediator check the work and

verify it

was done according to what was agreed? BTW, what did all parties agree to have

done?

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> In this case, the insurance company ripped out drywall, carpet and pad and

then carried some of the damaged materials through our house. They didn't use

any type of containment. And they also sprayed chemicals. In other words--a

triple whammy!!

>

>

> Re: [] Can mold ever really be remediated

> > completely?

> >

> > Yes. Mold can be remediated " completely. " It is done thousands

> > of times every day across the country. But as said there

> > as many variables. If those variables are not identified first

> > and specifically addressed in the remediation plan, plus verified

> > independantly, the situation will most likely be made worse. The

> > more sensitive you are the more difficult this becomes because

> > more diligence with all steps is necessary.

> >

> > Everyone, consider this general statement when evaluating any bid

> > from a remediator or consultant. Notice those wanting to use

> > chemicals and other " magic bullets " rarely ever consider the

> > variables and diligence required for you. They have a

> > one-response for all and their energy is on convincing you to

> > " buy " their service. Doesn't work.

> >

> > Carl Grimes

> > Healthy Habitats LLC

> >

> > -----

> > On Sun Jan 20 01:34:40 CST 2008, robert christ <antares4141@

> > gmail.com> wrote:

> >

> >> There are so many varialbes, how sick you are, how bad the house

> >> is,

> >> probably being the two most important.

> >> read one of the most recent threads titled " As I suspected " some

> >> of these

> >> issues are touched on there.

> >>

> >>

> >> On Jan 19, 2008 6:50 PM, surellabaer < surellabaer@ gmail.com>

> >> wrote:

> >>

> >>> Hi everyone-my MCS group recommended your group as I have a moldy

> >>> house problem that is making me very sick. I have literally been

> >>> working on it for a year now.

> >>> Every time it seems like the mold is gone it isn't. I have

> >>> ripped off

> >>> all the walls in the basement, ripped down the ceiling pulled

> >>> up the

> >>> floor, and now I think it's stuck in a spot that i don;t think

> >>> I can

> >>> reach with spraying.

> >>> I know a mold remediation company will laugh at me-my mold

> >>> tests came

> >>> out practically clean (one spot!) but even that is too much for

> >>> me

> >>> right now.

> >>> I KNOW the mold is there (even though my husband thinks I'm

> >>> crazy). I

> >>> smell it and my lungs feel it.

> >>> After thousands of dollars I'm getting really pessimistic- I

> >>> can't

> >>> afford to move (I'll never be able to sell my house in this

> >>> market)

> >>> and I'm willing to fight the mold but for how many more years?

> >>>

> >>> Thanks for any suggestions! Surella

> >>>

> >>>

> >>

> >>

> >>

[Guest guest]

My basement was flooded and moldy, and it was cleaned professionally via an

insurance selected company a few months ago. I hired someone to do a mold

testing, air sample showed no mold. But, I can see the black mark at the bottom

of my wood staircase, part of the basement concrete wall seems to have some

light yellow color, the panels was taken away, but not where the cabinet was

attached. The gas furnace was not cleaned, air cleaner was just put into a

plastic wrap. We just replaced the air filter for the furnace about a couple of

weeks ago.

I went down to be basement with the remediater recently to inspect it again. I

got eye pain and could not sleep that night. I think I always have eye pain when

I encounter mold. My infected left ear kept on draining for over a amonth.. Mu

husband has numbness on his right feet for a few months.

Do we still have mold? Especially in the basement. How do we know for sure?

Where can we look for help for our home and health?

Hope

[Guest guest]

Hope,

One of the most commjon omissions during mold remediation is dealing with

the exposed wood framing. In my experience, unless a basement has been

dehumidified since construction (and maintained at no more than 50% RH),

there is likely to be invisible mold growth on all the joists and the

subflooring. If you have exposed fiberglass ceiling insulation, there is a

better than 50% chance that it is infested with mold and mold-eating mites.

Any fiberglass has to be removed under containment. Then the framing

(joists, cross-bracing, subflooring) all has to be HEPA vacuumed and sealed

with either paint or, if you have chemical sensitivities, diluted Elmer's

Glue (about 1:1 with water).

You should really seal any surfaces to both encapsultate any residual spores

and to facilitate future cleaning. For those who are sensitized, every

basement surface should be clean enough to eat off.

Same goes for the interior of the furnace.

The simplest way to test at this point is to do some tape lifts. Don't

bother with the air. Sample the foundation walls, framing, interior or

furnace.

C. May, M.A., CIAQP

> 12a. Re: Can mold ever really be remediated completely?

> Posted by: " gs1 " grapeseed1@... mtien51

> Date: Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:58 pm ((PST))

>

> My basement was flooded and moldy, and it was cleaned professionally via an

insurance selected company a few months ago. I hired someone to do a mold

testing, air sample showed no mold. But, I can see the black mark at the bottom

of my wood staircase, part of the basement concrete wall seems to have some

light yellow color, the panels was taken away, but not where the cabinet was

attached. The gas furnace was not cleaned, air cleaner was just put into a

plastic wrap. We just replaced the air filter for the furnace about a couple of

weeks ago.

>

> I went down to be basement with the remediater recently to inspect it again. I

got eye pain and could not sleep that night. I think I always have eye pain when

I encounter mold. My infected left ear kept on draining for over a amonth.. Mu

husband has numbness on his right feet for a few months.

>

> Do we still have mold? Especially in the basement. How do we know for sure?

Where can we look for help for our home and health?

>

> Hope

>

[Guest guest]

>

> My basement was flooded and moldy, and it was cleaned professionally

via an insurance selected company a few months ago. I hired someone

to do a mold testing, air sample showed no mold. But, I can see the

black mark at the bottom of my wood staircase, part of the basement

concrete wall seems to have some light yellow color, the panels was

taken away, but not where the cabinet was attached. The gas furnace

was not cleaned, air cleaner was just put into a plastic wrap. We just

replaced the air filter for the furnace about a couple of weeks ago.

>

> I went down to be basement with the remediater recently to inspect

it again. I got eye pain and could not sleep that night. I think I

always have eye pain when I encounter mold. My infected left ear kept

on draining for over a amonth.. Mu husband has numbness on his right

feet for a few months.

>

> Do we still have mold? Especially in the basement. How do we know

for sure? Where can we look for help for our home and health?

>

> Hope

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jeff, what are you referring to when you say to test 'interior'? Do

you mean interior of walls?

> Don't

> bother with the air. Sample the foundation walls, framing, interior

or

> furnace.

>

> C. May, M.A., CIAQP

[Guest guest]

Barb,

Sorry, that was a typo. You can't sample the interior of walls with tape.

The post should have read:

" Sample the foundation walls, framing and interior OF the furnace. "

(The accessible area of the furnace that can be sampled is the blower

cabinet.)

C. May, M.A., CIAQP

writes:

> 9c. Re: Can mold ever really be remediated completely?

> Posted by: " barb1283 " barb1283@... barb1283

> Date: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:02 pm ((PST))

>

> Jeff, what are you referring to when you say to test 'interior'? Do

> you mean interior of walls?

>

>

>> Don't

>> bother with the air. Sample the foundation walls, framing, interior

> or

>> furnace.

>>

>> C. May, M.A., CIAQP

[Guest guest]

Jeff,

Do you have any thoughts on the best ways to do finished basements to

avoid mold problems?

Most of the people who end up on here (sicjbuildings) are looking to

retrofit, and quite possibly remediate first. Also, cost is an issue

for almost everybody.

Buildingscience.com looks like they have good info but lots is geared

towards new construction.

On Jan 21, 2008 8:44 PM, Jeff May <jeff@...> wrote:

>

> Hope,

>

> One of the most commjon omissions during mold remediation is dealing with

> the exposed wood framing. In my experience, unless a basement has been

> dehumidified since construction (and maintained at no more than 50% RH),

> there is likely to be invisible mold growth on all the joists and the

> subflooring. If you have exposed fiberglass ceiling insulation, there is a

> better than 50% chance that it is infested with mold and mold-eating mites.

>

> Any fiberglass has to be removed under containment. Then the framing

> (joists, cross-bracing, subflooring) all has to be HEPA vacuumed and sealed

> with either paint or, if you have chemical sensitivities, diluted Elmer's

> Glue (about 1:1 with water).

>

> You should really seal any surfaces to both encapsultate any residual

> spores

> and to facilitate future cleaning. For those who are sensitized, every

> basement surface should be clean enough to eat off.

>

> Same goes for the interior of the furnace.

>

> The simplest way to test at this point is to do some tape lifts. Don't

> bother with the air. Sample the foundation walls, framing, interior or

> furnace.

>

> C. May, M.A., CIAQP

>

>