Guest guest Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 i am not familiar with this situation, could someone elaborate a little? Bonillo wrote: Based on someone's comments here, I went forward into OTNFJ book to find the situation with the ants in the salad/on the couch. I feel a bit betrayed by 's response, in the sense that I have assumed that, with inquiry, one's compassion and love would win the day over anything else. The story I read in her book told me that she can be more interested in inquiry and " hmm! how fascinating! " responses than she is about compassion for self and other beings. She says she loves life and death, found herself killing ants, etc. I am scared and angry at this, though I know she--like I-- is human. Ideas? -a --------------------------------- Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 I would suggest that people who have strong feelings that should not eat eggs or kill ants might investigate their overall beliefs about who is. She has never set herself up to be above the daily fray. I think you are putting qualities on her that she has never claimed. In other words, you are upset that she is not living up to your story of her. A story that is evidently a fantasy, as are most if not all of the stories I have about people. Welcome to the club. Vivian Re: and the ants Good ideas by Jon. Maybe these could be interesting to investigate: should not kill animals. Killing animals is not compassionate. PS. In the same book I also read eats eggs. I was surprised! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 Dear Jon, Indeed here lies the crux of the misgivings I have had before with the limits of inquiry, as well as the current issue related to the ants... To answer your question, I can say that I am placing more value on not killing them than on killing them. I don't know if one can know the value of living vs. dying, or what it really means, but my story tells me that it is nobler to avoid killing than to knowingly kill something. Is NOBLE something I have a market on? No way, but I feel my conscience tug against such killing. might call it an unpleasant or stressful thought, which it can be, but I guess I am not convinced that stressful is the be-all-end- all value marker for all beliefs. I will read other posts and continue to inquire my heart... Thanks, > > Hi , > Lastly, there is a BK quote that goes something like " Until we know that > death is equal to life we live in fear " - are you placing more value on > the ants living than dying? > > Let us know what you discover :-) > > With love, > > Jon > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 Hi , What you are doing sounds great - honest inquiry and not pushing yourself beyond where you are - it is a great reminder for me to do the same - thank you. One of the places I find useful to inquire into is my beliefs about The Work and people that do The Work - how they are, how I think they should be, etc. In fact I'm just realizing that some of my beliefs/fears about The Work were/are the same ones I had about taking anti-depressants - which makes sense as it is my beliefs being projected onto the world. With love and thanks, Jon --- Re: and the ants Date: Fri, January 25, 2008 5:33 am To: Loving-what-is Dear Jon, Indeed here lies the crux of the misgivings I have had before with the limits of inquiry, as well as the current issue related to the ants... To answer your question, I can say that I am placing more value on not killing them than on killing them. I don't know if one can know the value of living vs. dying, or what it really means, but my story tells me that it is nobler to avoid killing than to knowingly kill something. Is NOBLE something I have a market on? No way, but I feel my conscience tug against such killing. might call it an unpleasant or stressful thought, which it can be, but I guess I am not convinced that stressful is the be-all-end- all value marker for all beliefs. I will read other posts and continue to inquire my heart... Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Hi , From what I can remember of it, the short version of it is that there were ants in her house, she asked someone to buy some 'ant hotels' - then later she found the ants crawling all over her and she (a) enjoyed the feeling of being massaged by them and ( she noticed that her hands where squeezing some of them - and reflected on death. Also that some ants got into the salad she prepared and enjoyed the crunchiness of the ants in the salad - I seem to recall her mentioning getting the perfect amount of protein :-) The bigger pieces for me in the book at the time were her thoughts on 9/11 and the Tsunami - I remember feeling fear that people may pick up on these and 'crucify' her with them... Of course it's my fear/belief that anyone that does or says what feels right ends up paying the price :-) With love, Jon x > > i am not familiar with this situation, could someone elaborate a little? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 > Also that some ants got into the salad she prepared and enjoyed the > crunchiness of the ants in the salad - I seem to recall her mentioning > getting the perfect amount of protein :-) > you'v forgot the part where she has found herself spitting the it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Hi , What about killing carrots? Cutting flowers? Mashing potatoes? Living means killing. That's biology. I do relate to what you're saying, though. There were times I felt guilty for breathing! Now I think that Oneness, or Source, or Love, or whatever, knew what it was doing when it made me happen. Warts and all. Killing ants, sometimes, or killing carrots, or breathing, even. :-) Eva Bonillo wrote: > > Dear Jon, > > Indeed here lies the crux of the misgivings I have had before with > the limits of inquiry, as well as the current issue related to the > ants... > > To answer your question, I can say that I am placing more value on > not killing them than on killing them. I don't know if one can know > the value of living vs. dying, or what it really means, but my story > tells me that it is nobler to avoid killing than to knowingly kill > something. Is NOBLE something I have a market on? No way, but I feel > my conscience tug against such killing. > > might call it an unpleasant or stressful thought, which it can > be, but I guess I am not convinced that stressful is the be-all-end- > all value marker for all beliefs. > > I will read other posts and continue to inquire my heart... > > Thanks, > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 you're right, I don't remember that part - did you mean spitting the ants out? thanks, Jon --- Re: and the ants Date: Fri, January 25, 2008 11:37 am To: Loving-what-is > Also that some ants got into the salad she prepared and enjoyed the > crunchiness of the ants in the salad - I seem to recall her mentioning > getting the perfect amount of protein :-) > you'v forgot the part where she has found herself spitting the it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 thanks for this response jon. i gave away my copy of 'a thousand names for joy' which i think this story was in, i do not recall this story, so i guess there were parts fo the book that i hadnt read yet. i'm thinking of getting another copy. it is interesting to see that there is a 'natural way' of things, and that my resistance to what i see unfolding (katie eating ants, a lion on tv killing an antelope, my daughter leaving dirty food encrusted dishes in her room, etc....) is where my work is, if i'm intersted in the truth and ending my argument with reality. thanks again. c Jon Willis wrote: Hi , From what I can remember of it, the short version of it is that there were ants in her house, she asked someone to buy some 'ant hotels' - then later she found the ants crawling all over her and she (a) enjoyed the feeling of being massaged by them and ( she noticed that her hands where squeezing some of them - and reflected on death. Also that some ants got into the salad she prepared and enjoyed the crunchiness of the ants in the salad - I seem to recall her mentioning getting the perfect amount of protein :-) The bigger pieces for me in the book at the time were her thoughts on 9/11 and the Tsunami - I remember feeling fear that people may pick up on these and 'crucify' her with them... Of course it's my fear/belief that anyone that does or says what feels right ends up paying the price :-) With love, Jon x > > i am not familiar with this situation, could someone elaborate a little? > --------------------------------- Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 How do I kill? I kill time. I kill people in my mind. I kill myself with stressful thoughts. I kill the present moment and/or reality when I move into past or future thinking. Killing is what is, and I can be aware of my killings and change them if I choose. > > > > Dear Jon, > > > > Indeed here lies the crux of the misgivings I have had before with > > the limits of inquiry, as well as the current issue related to the > > ants... > > > > To answer your question, I can say that I am placing more value on > > not killing them than on killing them. I don't know if one can know > > the value of living vs. dying, or what it really means, but my story > > tells me that it is nobler to avoid killing than to knowingly kill > > something. Is NOBLE something I have a market on? No way, but I feel > > my conscience tug against such killing. > > > > might call it an unpleasant or stressful thought, which it can > > be, but I guess I am not convinced that stressful is the be-all- end- > > all value marker for all beliefs. > > > > I will read other posts and continue to inquire my heart... > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Hi , I like the stuff you write and I've been waiting to ask somebody this. You wrote: " And what I do, like or wish for is not my business. " Can you explain your experiences with this a little bit? Do you make plans for the future? How do you plan for a trip for example? Is that related? Or are you saying that the idea of going on the trip and where you want to go and how you'll get there, etc just " comes " to you... it flows into your consciousness and you go? What I'm trying to get at here is the apparent difference between your statement and my current notions about how I create everything in my life and the conscious/un-conscious control that I have over what is created. How is your comment related to God's Will? My understanding would be that by living in the truth your will is God's Will. Do you even give that any thought? Have you given this any thought. I REALLY look forward to your response. peace and joy to all, Helen I'm struggling with this notion because I > > > > Hi , > > Lastly, there is a BK quote that goes something like " Until we know > that > > death is equal to life we live in fear " - are you placing more > value on > > the ants living than dying? > > > > Let us know what you discover :-) > > > > With love, > > > > Jon > > > Machen Sie Yahoo! zu Ihrer Startseite. Los geht's: > http://de.yahoo.com/set > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 -anthony this was not a good story for me either.. i recall reading albert swhitzer cant spell and how he refused to kill any living thing in africa.. so he lived with the mosquitos etc. i always loved that story.. of course when i got ants.. i killed them it was something organic stuff off the internet.. but anyway when they start making a long line marching across your floor.. its hard to appreciate the little critters. its sort of overwhelming the number of ants you can end up with . in a very short time. so i loved it when they all died.. You might not fully appreciate this till you get ants.. actually before the stuff off the internet i read if you put grits on the floor they eat the grits and then bloat up and die.. the grits thing did not work.. i had more ants then ever before.. and grits all over my floor besides.. it was disgusting.. to clean that all up.. i love ants if they are out door ants.. love, roslyn -- In Loving-what-is , " Bonillo " wrote: > > > Based on someone's comments here, I went forward into OTNFJ book to > find the situation with the ants in the salad/on the couch. > > I feel a bit betrayed by 's response, in the sense that I have > assumed that, with inquiry, one's compassion and love would win the day > over anything else. > > The story I read in her book told me that she can be more interested in > inquiry and " hmm! how fascinating! " responses than she is about > compassion for self and other beings. She says she loves life and > death, found herself killing ants, etc. I am scared and angry at this, > though I know she--like I-- is human. > > Ideas? > > -a > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Thanks Roslyn - just appreciating how 'ants' can be replaced with 'thoughts' for me :-) With love, Jon --- Re: and the ants Date: Sat, January 26, 2008 11:39 pm To: Loving-what-is -anthony this was not a good story for me either.. i recall reading albert swhitzer cant spell and how he refused to kill any living thing in africa.. so he lived with the mosquitos etc. i always loved that story.. of course when i got ants.. i killed them it was something organic stuff off the internet.. but anyway when they start making a long line marching across your floor.. its hard to appreciate the little critters. its sort of overwhelming the number of ants you can end up with . in a very short time. so i loved it when they all died.. You might not fully appreciate this till you get ants.. actually before the stuff off the internet i read if you put grits on the floor they eat the grits and then bloat up and die.. the grits thing did not work.. i had more ants then ever before.. and grits all over my floor besides.. it was disgusting.. to clean that all up.. i love ants if they are out door ants.. love, roslyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Hi When I think about and the ants, I experierience pain then I remember that Im in her business, so I step back into my own and ask what can I learn about me from this. When I think I know what some one elses compassion is I experience pain or love and then I step back into my business, pain stope. When I think that my ex is happy with their new lover I exp pain and I come back to my own business. Im getting much better at coming back to my own business, I was in a lot of pain, now not so much love martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Dear , " I " was reading some posts here and " I " came across you response where you said: " that he is not convinced in that this " stressful thought " thing is the " be-all-end-all value marker for all beliefs " . I agree. Stressful vs non-stressful seems to me to be a beginning, as often says. As one continues to inquire, one comes to find that asking one's self... " Which one of these illusions is really true? " ..is obviously hopeless. For me, real peace can only come with the realization that " I " can't really know if anything is true....and " I " can't know anything, because the first lie is " I " . When the belief begins with " I " , (and don't they all?) then I is imagining itself as separate. Love you all, Steve D. > > > > Hi , > > Lastly, there is a BK quote that goes something like " Until we know > that > > death is equal to life we live in fear " - are you placing more > value on > > the ants living than dying? > > > > Let us know what you discover :-) > > > > With love, > > > > Jon > > > Machen Sie Yahoo! zu Ihrer Startseite. Los geht's: > http://de.yahoo.com/set > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Helen says to , " What I'm trying to get at here is the apparent difference between your statement and my current notions about how I create everything in my life and the conscious/un-conscious control that I have over what is created. How is your comment related to God's Will? My understanding would be that by living in the truth your will is God's Will. Do you even give that any thought? Have you given this any thought. I REALLY look forward to your response. " Yes, Helen, there is a huge difference between 's statement and your current notions. Your unquestioned thinking creates everything in your life....Yes, this is true, it is your mind's projection, nothing more, nothing less. Now, whether anything is " in accordance with God's Will? " , who can tell? If God is really God, then it appears that God's Will would be Supreme and it would be impossible for anything to be contrary to God's Will. As far as you/me having any control (conscious or otherwise)....I do not find that to be true. In order for me to have control, I would have to be in control of my thinking. That does not appear to be the case. The thoughts appear and I either believe them or I question them and find that I can not really know that they are true. Thank you for sparking my interest. Blessings, Steve D. wrote: > > Hi , > > I like the stuff you write and I've been waiting to ask somebody > this. > > You wrote: " And what I do, like or wish for is not my business. " > > Can you explain your experiences with this a little bit? Do you > make plans for the future? How do you plan for a trip for example? > Is that related? Or are you saying that the idea of going on the > trip and where you want to go and how you'll get there, etc > just " comes " to you... it flows into your consciousness and you go? > > What I'm trying to get at here is the apparent difference between > your statement and my current notions about how I create everything > in my life and the conscious/un-conscious control that I have over > what is created. > > How is your comment related to God's Will? My understanding would > be that by living in the truth your will is God's Will. Do you even > give that any thought? > > Have you given this any thought. > > I REALLY look forward to your response. > > peace and joy to all, > Helen > > > > I'm struggling with this notion because I > > > > > > > > Hi , > > > Lastly, there is a BK quote that goes something like " Until we > know > > that > > > death is equal to life we live in fear " - are you placing more > > value on > > > the ants living than dying? > > > > > > Let us know what you discover :-) > > > > > > With love, > > > > > > Jon > > > > > > Machen Sie Yahoo! zu Ihrer Startseite. Los geht's: > > http://de.yahoo.com/set > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Thanks for your postings Steve. Reading your responses triggered the belief that " I am inadequate " - or rather, it's already been building up today, just waiting for something to set it off. So thank you for your help! I've posted the inquiry here: http://www.selfhappiness.com/2008/01/inquiry-i-am-inadequate.html With love and thanks, Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 To Helen You wrote to " And what I do, like or wish for is not my business. " Can you explain your experiences with this a little bit? Your business is not in the future, what like, do and wish for in the future is not your business. Do you make plans for the future? You make any plans for the future now but what happens after you make the plans is not your concern How do you plan for a trip for example? You look at your calendar, put in your vacation request, make a reservation and airfare and put the dates on your calendar. Is that related? Related to what? What I wish? What is my business? All of my life? If you mean related to all of life of course. Everything is related. It might feel hypocritical to say I will only live in the now during those parts that I don't have to plan for. My belief is that after you make the plans you don't start to live in the future of what it will be like when you get to where you are going. You don't worry that you haven't planned enough. You do not dwell on your trip and wish, like or do anything else. It is not your business yet. It will not be your business until the time comes to go. Then you go. Or are you saying that the idea of going on the trip and where you want to go and how you'll get there, etc just " comes " to you... it flows into your consciousness and you go? This is what I'm saying (not trying to speak for ) but the sentence you wrote seems that there is no lapse in time between the two. There may well be months between the idea of where, how you will go and going. But you do not think of it again until you need to do something else (ie, pack, rent a limo to the airport etc) or you actually go. Also, of course the idea just comes to you. How else would it get there! You go when it is time to go. It is easiest if you don't try to " be there " before you actually " get there " What I'm trying to get at here is the apparent difference between your statement and my current notions about how I create everything in my life and the conscious/un-conscious control that I have over what is created. Everything I have said seems to me to be conscious control. The un-consciousness comes into account if you are trying to escape the NOW by wishing you were there. Believing that everything is not perfect until you get there. Wanting the time between now and then to be already then and living un-consciously until then arrives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Hi , thanks for your comments. Awesome. I've added below -- > > > > > > Hi , > > > Lastly, there is a BK quote that goes something like " Until we > know > > that > > > death is equal to life we live in fear " - are you placing more > > value on > > > the ants living than dying? > > > > > > Let us know what you discover :-) > > > > > > With love, > > > > > > Jon > > > > > > Machen Sie Yahoo! zu Ihrer Startseite. Los geht's: > > http://de.yahoo.com/set > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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