Guest guest Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Hi there, Thanks for posting this. Did you go through the 4 questions on this statement or skip to the turnarounds directly? I recommend going through the questions before doing the turnarounds. Also, it may be that you have a lot of anger around your sister and that there's more than one thing you want do The Work on - I have written dozens of Judge Your Neighbour worksheets about my ex-partners, family, friends, you name it - including about The Work itself (it doesn't work, it's a pile of shit, etc). Another place to check in with yourself around your sister is whether you feel blocked around inquiring with her - for example, what do you fear would happen if you let go of the belief that she is manipulative and controlling? If there is a fear (e.g. If I no longer believe this thought she will take advantage of me), you can inquire into that (She will take advantage of me - is that true, etc.) Lastly, and you may not be that interested in looking at this, but how do I know really.... You can do The Work on the beliefs around the disappointment you feel (for example, This book should have worked). With love, Jon --- Well so what??? Date: Thu, January 31, 2008 11:24 pm To: Loving-what-is after reading this book several times, and doing " the work " , i turned around " my sister is manipulative and approval seeking " to " i,m manipulative and approval seeking " But i,m still angry with my sister, feel like its a waste of time and i,m annoyed. Ok rant over....so what am i missing, how will this help me with my difficult emotions? I had high hopes for this book but now feel very disappointed __._,_.__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 Hi Dawn It occurs to me that you could try to unearth the underlying thought/s around which the anger with your sister is centred? Speaking from personal experience with my sister, I did the work time and again on a particular area, but still found myself conducting those mental prosecutions quite frequently. So I decided to really get to the bottom of it, as far as I could, and it's taken about three years on and off - but it really has helped me a lot. I suggest you do a JYN sheet on your sister - particularly looking at what you want her never to do again, what you want her to do, what you really, really think of her without trying to impress yourself with how nice and spiritual you are :-) (that's one of my things) - really wade into the mire and see what fish stick to your waders! Good work Love Well so what??? after reading this book several times, and doing " the work " , i turned around " my sister is manipulative and approval seeking " to " i,m manipulative and approval seeking " But i,m still angry with my sister, feel like its a waste of time and i,m annoyed. Ok rant over....so what am i missing, how will this help me with my difficult emotions? I had high hopes for this book but now feel very disappointed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 " But i,m still angry with my sister, feel like its a waste of time and i,m annoyed. " Do you know of another better method? Really, I second doing the JYN worksheet which suggested, other than that, try seeing your sister as another you, so how is being manipulative and approval seeking, how does it feel for you, does it feel true or truer or just as true or less true? Do you see in her things which you don't see in yourself? What does she show you about your self? Feel free to post your inquiry. And about the annoyance, If your annoyed your on a good path, it means you're getting somewhere really deep, annoyance is a protection mechanism of your mind, if the work becomes too true, and if you see who you really are, the mind protects itself with these kind of arguments, because you're seeing things you are not supposed to see, inquire further, go deeper, welcome this annoyance, and welcome that it's a waste of time, as far as I can tell, your sister is a perfect mirror, she's showing you aspects of your very real nature, and to see these aspects might hurt you, that's why it's annoying. It's because you don't want to see it, but you can go beyond, it's easy, just use the turnaround mirror, do the JYN worksheet on your sister, and when you're done, turn it around, the entire worksheet, put yourself into your sisters shoes, pretend to be your sister, and pretend all that you see in her would be true for you too. That's who you really are. And that hurts. No wonder you are annoyed. She's a perfect mirror for you, and so when you're done, and when you've seen all the negative aspects about your self, remind yourself that she is just a mirror, and mirrors are there to show us who we are, nothing more, she's not there to be loving and kind, she's there to show you your true nature. Beside, what's the turnaround for manipulative, and approval seeking? Nehti 2008/2/1, dawnaberu : > > after reading this book several times, and doing " the work " , i turned > around > " my sister is manipulative and approval seeking " to > > " i,m manipulative and approval seeking " > > But i,m still angry with my sister, feel like its a waste of time and > i,m annoyed. > > Ok rant over....so what am i missing, how will this help me with my > difficult emotions? > > I had high hopes for this book but now feel very disappointed > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 Perhaps you would find it helpful to do the work with another? Maybe find another member here you can call, or call the hotline number that's available at www.thework.org? You said... > Doing the JYN worksheet puts it back on me when they are the ones > who are being bad employees. That is what I find...that it puts it back on me, and I found for me that's where it belongs, because it is in my mind where the judgments and thoughts that are making me unhappy are. My employees can be bad employees and I can be happy. Or they can be bad employees and I can be unhappy. Is it absolutely true that they are bad employees? Is it true that they shouldn't be bad employees? Who would I be without that thought that they are or shouldn't be? And when you answer " Who would I be without this thought? " are you really able to see and Feel what that would be like? For me, answering that question really begins a lot of the shift in feelings for me. I also would like to add that I think if I had found The Work a few years ago I don't think I would have been ready for it, I don't think I would have understood it then. But I read other things like Debbie Ford's books that I think " paved the way " for me so when I learned about the work it clicked. Also, having watched the videos on youtube helped me understand how it could work for me better too. > > thanks everyone for replys > > i,m obviously missing something here because i have already done the > JYN worksheet > > Iwant some way of dealing with my emotions, that will enable me to be > less angry but still effective in dealing with people, especially > people at work that i am suppoe to be managing but i feel alot of bad > feelings towards . > > Doing the JYN worksheet puts it back on me when they are the ones who > are being bad employees. > > My sister was just an example, its everything else that is doing me in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2008/2/1, dawnaberu <dawnaberu@>: > > > > > > after reading this book several times, and doing " the work " , i > turned > > > around > > > " my sister is manipulative and approval seeking " to > > > > > > " i,m manipulative and approval seeking " > > > > > > But i,m still angry with my sister, feel like its a waste of time > and > > > i,m annoyed. > > > > > > Ok rant over....so what am i missing, how will this help me with > my > > > difficult emotions? > > > > > > I had high hopes for this book but now feel very disappointed > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 > > > > " But i,m still angry with my sister, feel like its a waste of time > and > > i,m annoyed. " > > > > Do you know of another better method? > > > > Really, > > I second doing the JYN worksheet which suggested, > > other than that, try seeing your sister as another you, > > so how is being manipulative and approval seeking, > > how does it feel for you, > > does it feel true or truer or just as true or less true? > > > > Do you see in her things which you don't see in yourself? > > What does she show you about your self? > > > > Feel free to post your inquiry. > > > > And about the annoyance, > > If your annoyed your on a good path, > > it means you're getting somewhere really deep, > > annoyance is a protection mechanism of your mind, > > if the work becomes too true, > > and if you see who you really are, > > the mind protects itself with these kind of arguments, > > because you're seeing things you are not supposed to see, > > inquire further, > > go deeper, > > welcome this annoyance, > > and welcome that it's a waste of time, > > as far as I can tell, > > your sister is a perfect mirror, > > she's showing you aspects of your very real nature, > > and to see these aspects might hurt you, > > that's why it's annoying. > > > > It's because you don't want to see it, > > but you can go beyond, > > it's easy, > > just use the turnaround mirror, > > do the JYN worksheet on your sister, > > and when you're done, > > turn it around, > > the entire worksheet, > > put yourself into your sisters shoes, > > pretend to be your sister, > > and pretend all that you see in her would be true for you too. > > > > That's who you really are. > > And that hurts. > > No wonder you are annoyed. > > > > She's a perfect mirror for you, > > and so when you're done, > > and when you've seen all the negative aspects about your self, > > remind yourself that she is just a mirror, > > and mirrors are there to show us who we are, > > nothing more, > > she's not there to be loving and kind, > > she's there to show you your true nature. > > > > Beside, what's the turnaround for manipulative, and approval > seeking? > > > > > > Nehti > > > > > > > > > > > > 2008/2/1, dawnaberu <dawnaberu@>: > > > > > > after reading this book several times, and doing " the work " , i > turned > > > around > > > " my sister is manipulative and approval seeking " to > > > > > > " i,m manipulative and approval seeking " > > > > > > But i,m still angry with my sister, feel like its a waste of time > and > > > i,m annoyed. > > > > > > Ok rant over....so what am i missing, how will this help me with > my > > > difficult emotions? > > > > > > I had high hopes for this book but now feel very disappointed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Hi Dawn ~ Yes, my example was simple. I wanted it to be in order to illustrate the point that people do what they do and the best we can do is get a clear mind to deal with our own responsiblities with as much sanity as possible. Act with integrity and trust the outcome regardless of how undermining someone else is attmpting to be...and I know this is often easier said than done. Turn arounds don't always feel as true or truer in the situation that we are currently working on. Yet, if we look, we can all find times when we attmpted to undermine, make someone look stupid, etc and have done so to ourselves as well. If not in this situation then at some other time. And all that means is that we can understand how someone else could be confused enough to be acting that way themselves. We/ve been there at one time or another. Do what you can to take good care of yourself in this situation, do what you know it is your job to do, and if you want to keep seeking the truth, keep doing the work on what you think other's should or shouldn't be doing. They are doign exactly what they need to be doing, whether you approve or not...the question is, will you stop arguing with it and simply do what you need to do in response? That is the more peaceful place. Good luck with it..if this all adds more confusion to your mind, please , disregard it. C dawnaberu wrote: > > > > " But i,m still angry with my sister, feel like its a waste of time > and > > i,m annoyed. " > > > > Do you know of another better method? > > > > Really, > > I second doing the JYN worksheet which suggested, > > other than that, try seeing your sister as another you, > > so how is being manipulative and approval seeking, > > how does it feel for you, > > does it feel true or truer or just as true or less true? > > > > Do you see in her things which you don't see in yourself? > > What does she show you about your self? > > > > Feel free to post your inquiry. > > > > And about the annoyance, > > If your annoyed your on a good path, > > it means you're getting somewhere really deep, > > annoyance is a protection mechanism of your mind, > > if the work becomes too true, > > and if you see who you really are, > > the mind protects itself with these kind of arguments, > > because you're seeing things you are not supposed to see, > > inquire further, > > go deeper, > > welcome this annoyance, > > and welcome that it's a waste of time, > > as far as I can tell, > > your sister is a perfect mirror, > > she's showing you aspects of your very real nature, > > and to see these aspects might hurt you, > > that's why it's annoying. > > > > It's because you don't want to see it, > > but you can go beyond, > > it's easy, > > just use the turnaround mirror, > > do the JYN worksheet on your sister, > > and when you're done, > > turn it around, > > the entire worksheet, > > put yourself into your sisters shoes, > > pretend to be your sister, > > and pretend all that you see in her would be true for you too. > > > > That's who you really are. > > And that hurts. > > No wonder you are annoyed. > > > > She's a perfect mirror for you, > > and so when you're done, > > and when you've seen all the negative aspects about your self, > > remind yourself that she is just a mirror, > > and mirrors are there to show us who we are, > > nothing more, > > she's not there to be loving and kind, > > she's there to show you your true nature. > > > > Beside, what's the turnaround for manipulative, and approval > seeking? > > > > > > Nehti > > > > > > > > > > > > 2008/2/1, dawnaberu <dawnaberu@>: > > > > > > after reading this book several times, and doing " the work " , i > turned > > > around > > > " my sister is manipulative and approval seeking " to > > > > > > " i,m manipulative and approval seeking " > > > > > > But i,m still angry with my sister, feel like its a waste of time > and > > > i,m annoyed. > > > > > > Ok rant over....so what am i missing, how will this help me with > my > > > difficult emotions? > > > > > > I had high hopes for this book but now feel very disappointed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Hi Dawn, You say that " I know it will be back on me when I really do know I have not done these things to her. " Can you put that aside for the moment and try the work on it anyway? You may be surprised what you find out. What we think we know can often get in the way. Maybe you will find it is not back on you - maybe you'll feel really free to act on what is happening. Maybe you'll find other situations where the turnarounds apply. For example, you say that you're not doing these things to yourself - maybe not in this situation, but can you say that you have never undermined yourself, never isolated yourself or never tought that you've done something stupid? The turnarounds, without the 4 questions are just changing the direction of the finger that is being pointed - without opening our hearts or even letting go of concepts like 'undermine', 'isolate' or 'looking stupid'. For me the mind goes there to continue blaming or justify not doing The Work - if I do it then I'll be wrong and they'll be right. I have not yet found any situation or example where I cannot inquire using The Work - and that may not be true for everyone. With much love, Jon x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 " Good luck with it..if this all adds more confusion to your mind, please , disregard it. " No it is helping, hope i,m not sounding like some ungrateful wretch, i do appreciate your input:-) --- In Loving-what-is , wrote: > > Hi Dawn ~ > > Yes, my example was simple. I wanted it to be in order to illustrate the point that people do what they do and the best we can do is get a clear mind to deal with our own responsiblities with as much sanity as possible. Act with integrity and trust the outcome regardless of how undermining someone else is attmpting to be...and I know this is often easier said than done. > > Turn arounds don't always feel as true or truer in the situation that we are currently working on. Yet, if we look, we can all find times when we attmpted to undermine, make someone look stupid, etc and have done so to ourselves as well. If not in this situation then at some other time. And all that means is that we can understand how someone else could be confused enough to be acting that way themselves. We/ve been there at one time or another. > > Do what you can to take good care of yourself in this situation, do what you know it is your job to do, and if you want to keep seeking the truth, keep doing the work on what you think other's should or shouldn't be doing. They are doign exactly what they need to be doing, whether you approve or not...the question is, will you stop arguing with it and simply do what you need to do in response? That is the more peaceful place. > > Good luck with it..if this all adds more confusion to your mind, please , disregard it. > > C > > dawnaberu wrote: > > > > > > > " But i,m still angry with my sister, feel like its a waste of > time > > and > > > i,m annoyed. " > > > > > > Do you know of another better method? > > > > > > Really, > > > I second doing the JYN worksheet which suggested, > > > other than that, try seeing your sister as another you, > > > so how is being manipulative and approval seeking, > > > how does it feel for you, > > > does it feel true or truer or just as true or less true? > > > > > > Do you see in her things which you don't see in yourself? > > > What does she show you about your self? > > > > > > Feel free to post your inquiry. > > > > > > And about the annoyance, > > > If your annoyed your on a good path, > > > it means you're getting somewhere really deep, > > > annoyance is a protection mechanism of your mind, > > > if the work becomes too true, > > > and if you see who you really are, > > > the mind protects itself with these kind of arguments, > > > because you're seeing things you are not supposed to see, > > > inquire further, > > > go deeper, > > > welcome this annoyance, > > > and welcome that it's a waste of time, > > > as far as I can tell, > > > your sister is a perfect mirror, > > > she's showing you aspects of your very real nature, > > > and to see these aspects might hurt you, > > > that's why it's annoying. > > > > > > It's because you don't want to see it, > > > but you can go beyond, > > > it's easy, > > > just use the turnaround mirror, > > > do the JYN worksheet on your sister, > > > and when you're done, > > > turn it around, > > > the entire worksheet, > > > put yourself into your sisters shoes, > > > pretend to be your sister, > > > and pretend all that you see in her would be true for you too. > > > > > > That's who you really are. > > > And that hurts. > > > No wonder you are annoyed. > > > > > > She's a perfect mirror for you, > > > and so when you're done, > > > and when you've seen all the negative aspects about your self, > > > remind yourself that she is just a mirror, > > > and mirrors are there to show us who we are, > > > nothing more, > > > she's not there to be loving and kind, > > > she's there to show you your true nature. > > > > > > Beside, what's the turnaround for manipulative, and approval > > seeking? > > > > > > > > > Nehti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2008/2/1, dawnaberu <dawnaberu@>: > > > > > > > > after reading this book several times, and doing " the work " , i > > turned > > > > around > > > > " my sister is manipulative and approval seeking " to > > > > > > > > " i,m manipulative and approval seeking " > > > > > > > > But i,m still angry with my sister, feel like its a waste of > time > > and > > > > i,m annoyed. > > > > > > > > Ok rant over....so what am i missing, how will this help me > with > > my > > > > difficult emotions? > > > > > > > > I had high hopes for this book but now feel very disappointed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 For me the mind goes there to continue blaming or justify not doing The Work - if I do it then I'll be wrong and they'll be right. " I think Jon u have hit the nail on the head, i have become so entrenched in the i,m right and your wrong game that even when I/it is causing me pain and suffering i can,t stop. Ok gonna give myself a good talking to and do the work on this, anyone mind if i post later? Thanks for your support. -- - In Loving-what-is , " Jon Willis @ SELFHappiness.com " wrote: > > Hi Dawn, > > You say that " I know it will be back on me when I really do know I have > not done these things to her. " > > Can you put that aside for the moment and try the work on it anyway? You > may be surprised what you find out. > > What we think we know can often get in the way. Maybe you will find it > is not back on you - maybe you'll feel really free to act on what is > happening. Maybe you'll find other situations where the turnarounds > apply. > > For example, you say that you're not doing these things to yourself - > maybe not in this situation, but can you say that you have never > undermined yourself, never isolated yourself or never tought that you've > done something stupid? > > The turnarounds, without the 4 questions are just changing the direction > of the finger that is being pointed - without opening our hearts or even > letting go of concepts like 'undermine', 'isolate' or 'looking stupid'. > > For me the mind goes there to continue blaming or justify not doing The > Work - if I do it then I'll be wrong and they'll be right. > > I have not yet found any situation or example where I cannot inquire > using The Work - and that may not be true for everyone. > > With much love, > > Jon x > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Cool Dawn - and the statement " I'm right and they/she's wrong " may be where you want to start. Often if I notice I'm resisting doing The Work on something it is because there is something before it to work on, if that makes sense - instead of trying to step over that to other beliefs I often find it easier to start there. Wow, I just had some hits on the turnaround for this statement - they are right and I'm wrong, we are both right and we are both wrong :-) All could be true, including the original statement! With love, Jon x --- Re: Well so what??? Date: Tue, February 05, 2008 7:09 pm To: Loving-what-is For me the mind goes there to continue blaming or justify not doing The Work - if I do it then I'll be wrong and they'll be right. " I think Jon u have hit the nail on the head, i have become so entrenched in the i,m right and your wrong game that even when I/it is causing me pain and suffering i can,t stop. Ok gonna give myself a good talking to and do the work on this, anyone mind if i post later? Thanks for your support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Wow Dawn.... You dont sound ungrateful at all...and in fact, this is very relevant in it's own way to something that I posted after I replied to you. I am just reading my own words to you and it is so amazing how much i needed to hear all of that. If you read my post you will see how I underminded a friend of mine by passing his email along to another friend without his permission and making comments about him that were less than kind. I have felt like an ungrateful wretch all morning as a result of my own actions and feel I have undermined my friendship with him. Your story is mine, the characters are just a bit different and I am the one who has done ALL of the undermining and have made someone look incredibly stupid (me!). I'm almost at the point where I can laugh at my situation. I'm glad something in that seemed to help you Dawn. I have to go out but am looking fwd to posting some work about this later today. C. dawnaberu wrote: " Good luck with it..if this all adds more confusion to your mind, please , disregard it. " No it is helping, hope i,m not sounding like some ungrateful wretch, i do appreciate your input:-) --- In Loving-what-is , wrote: > > Hi Dawn ~ > > Yes, my example was simple. I wanted it to be in order to illustrate the point that people do what they do and the best we can do is get a clear mind to deal with our own responsiblities with as much sanity as possible. Act with integrity and trust the outcome regardless of how undermining someone else is attmpting to be...and I know this is often easier said than done. > > Turn arounds don't always feel as true or truer in the situation that we are currently working on. Yet, if we look, we can all find times when we attmpted to undermine, make someone look stupid, etc and have done so to ourselves as well. If not in this situation then at some other time. And all that means is that we can understand how someone else could be confused enough to be acting that way themselves. We/ve been there at one time or another. > > Do what you can to take good care of yourself in this situation, do what you know it is your job to do, and if you want to keep seeking the truth, keep doing the work on what you think other's should or shouldn't be doing. They are doign exactly what they need to be doing, whether you approve or not...the question is, will you stop arguing with it and simply do what you need to do in response? That is the more peaceful place. > > Good luck with it..if this all adds more confusion to your mind, please , disregard it. > > C > > dawnaberu wrote: > > > > > > > " But i,m still angry with my sister, feel like its a waste of > time > > and > > > i,m annoyed. " > > > > > > Do you know of another better method? > > > > > > Really, > > > I second doing the JYN worksheet which suggested, > > > other than that, try seeing your sister as another you, > > > so how is being manipulative and approval seeking, > > > how does it feel for you, > > > does it feel true or truer or just as true or less true? > > > > > > Do you see in her things which you don't see in yourself? > > > What does she show you about your self? > > > > > > Feel free to post your inquiry. > > > > > > And about the annoyance, > > > If your annoyed your on a good path, > > > it means you're getting somewhere really deep, > > > annoyance is a protection mechanism of your mind, > > > if the work becomes too true, > > > and if you see who you really are, > > > the mind protects itself with these kind of arguments, > > > because you're seeing things you are not supposed to see, > > > inquire further, > > > go deeper, > > > welcome this annoyance, > > > and welcome that it's a waste of time, > > > as far as I can tell, > > > your sister is a perfect mirror, > > > she's showing you aspects of your very real nature, > > > and to see these aspects might hurt you, > > > that's why it's annoying. > > > > > > It's because you don't want to see it, > > > but you can go beyond, > > > it's easy, > > > just use the turnaround mirror, > > > do the JYN worksheet on your sister, > > > and when you're done, > > > turn it around, > > > the entire worksheet, > > > put yourself into your sisters shoes, > > > pretend to be your sister, > > > and pretend all that you see in her would be true for you too. > > > > > > That's who you really are. > > > And that hurts. > > > No wonder you are annoyed. > > > > > > She's a perfect mirror for you, > > > and so when you're done, > > > and when you've seen all the negative aspects about your self, > > > remind yourself that she is just a mirror, > > > and mirrors are there to show us who we are, > > > nothing more, > > > she's not there to be loving and kind, > > > she's there to show you your true nature. > > > > > > Beside, what's the turnaround for manipulative, and approval > > seeking? > > > > > > > > > Nehti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2008/2/1, dawnaberu <dawnaberu@>: > > > > > > > > after reading this book several times, and doing " the work " , i > > turned > > > > around > > > > " my sister is manipulative and approval seeking " to > > > > > > > > " i,m manipulative and approval seeking " > > > > > > > > But i,m still angry with my sister, feel like its a waste of > time > > and > > > > i,m annoyed. > > > > > > > > Ok rant over....so what am i missing, how will this help me > with > > my > > > > difficult emotions? > > > > > > > > I had high hopes for this book but now feel very disappointed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 ok have done the JYN, this is the 1st is trying to make me look like afool Q1 When people have found out how she has been behaving, people have been supportive and judged her not me....so yes she has, but it has backfired on her Q2 No i cant absolutely know her aim is to make me look foolish, no matter how much i think it to be true Q3 i feel very angry, humiliated and stressed(she must not win), I feel a tightness in my chest and throat My mind attacks her, wants to destroy her, teach her a lesson once and for all, make her feel bad, I also feel guilty/ashamed to be thinking theses things. I treat myself badly when I believe this thought, feel stressed, beat myself up, I feel inadequate I have got to win , prove myself, come out looking good Q4 calmer, less angry, more objective, more willing to cooperate, my mind feels sharper, the problem smaller and more defined, more compassion Turnaround I am trying to make me look like a fool by setting myself up for something I can,t win or if I did win the victory would be hollow and not worth the effort Iam trying to make look like a fool Yes I AM,I AM GOING TO SORT HER OUT ONCE AND FOR ALL is not trying to make me look like a fool I think she is afraid and using anything at her disposal to fight back mmmm, lot to think about there, i cant seem tos top crying when i read this but i still dont know what to do next, i have so much pressure from my manager to sort this problem out thanks for reading, all comments gratefully recieved --- In Loving-what-is , wrote: > > Wow Dawn.... > > You dont sound ungrateful at all...and in fact, this is very relevant in it's own way to something that I posted after I replied to you. I am just reading my own words to you and it is so amazing how much i needed to hear all of that. If you read my post you will see how I underminded a friend of mine by passing his email along to another friend without his permission and making comments about him that were less than kind. I have felt like an ungrateful wretch all morning as a result of my own actions and feel I have undermined my friendship with him. Your story is mine, the characters are just a bit different and I am the one who has done ALL of the undermining and have made someone look incredibly stupid (me!). I'm almost at the point where I can laugh at my situation. I'm glad something in that seemed to help you Dawn. I have to go out but am looking fwd to posting some work about this later today. > > C. > > dawnaberu wrote: > " > > Good luck with it..if this all adds more confusion to your mind, > please , > disregard it. " > > No it is helping, hope i,m not sounding like some ungrateful wretch, > i do appreciate your input:-) > > --- > > In Loving-what-is , <catherineantle@> > wrote: > > > > Hi Dawn ~ > > > > Yes, my example was simple. I wanted it to be in order to > illustrate the point that people do what they do and the best we can > do is get a clear mind to deal with our own responsiblities with as > much sanity as possible. Act with integrity and trust the outcome > regardless of how undermining someone else is attmpting to be...and I > know this is often easier said than done. > > > > Turn arounds don't always feel as true or truer in the situation > that we are currently working on. Yet, if we look, we can all find > times when we attmpted to undermine, make someone look stupid, etc > and have done so to ourselves as well. If not in this situation then > at some other time. And all that means is that we can understand how > someone else could be confused enough to be acting that way > themselves. We/ve been there at one time or another. > > > > Do what you can to take good care of yourself in this situation, > do what you know it is your job to do, and if you want to keep > seeking the truth, keep doing the work on what you think other's > should or shouldn't be doing. They are doign exactly what they need > to be doing, whether you approve or not...the question is, will you > stop arguing with it and simply do what you need to do in response? > That is the more peaceful place. > > > > Good luck with it..if this all adds more confusion to your mind, > please , disregard it. > > > > C > > > > dawnaberu <dawnaberu@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > " But i,m still angry with my sister, feel like its a waste of > > time > > > and > > > > i,m annoyed. " > > > > > > > > Do you know of another better method? > > > > > > > > Really, > > > > I second doing the JYN worksheet which suggested, > > > > other than that, try seeing your sister as another you, > > > > so how is being manipulative and approval seeking, > > > > how does it feel for you, > > > > does it feel true or truer or just as true or less true? > > > > > > > > Do you see in her things which you don't see in yourself? > > > > What does she show you about your self? > > > > > > > > Feel free to post your inquiry. > > > > > > > > And about the annoyance, > > > > If your annoyed your on a good path, > > > > it means you're getting somewhere really deep, > > > > annoyance is a protection mechanism of your mind, > > > > if the work becomes too true, > > > > and if you see who you really are, > > > > the mind protects itself with these kind of arguments, > > > > because you're seeing things you are not supposed to see, > > > > inquire further, > > > > go deeper, > > > > welcome this annoyance, > > > > and welcome that it's a waste of time, > > > > as far as I can tell, > > > > your sister is a perfect mirror, > > > > she's showing you aspects of your very real nature, > > > > and to see these aspects might hurt you, > > > > that's why it's annoying. > > > > > > > > It's because you don't want to see it, > > > > but you can go beyond, > > > > it's easy, > > > > just use the turnaround mirror, > > > > do the JYN worksheet on your sister, > > > > and when you're done, > > > > turn it around, > > > > the entire worksheet, > > > > put yourself into your sisters shoes, > > > > pretend to be your sister, > > > > and pretend all that you see in her would be true for you too. > > > > > > > > That's who you really are. > > > > And that hurts. > > > > No wonder you are annoyed. > > > > > > > > She's a perfect mirror for you, > > > > and so when you're done, > > > > and when you've seen all the negative aspects about your self, > > > > remind yourself that she is just a mirror, > > > > and mirrors are there to show us who we are, > > > > nothing more, > > > > she's not there to be loving and kind, > > > > she's there to show you your true nature. > > > > > > > > Beside, what's the turnaround for manipulative, and approval > > > seeking? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nehti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2008/2/1, dawnaberu <dawnaberu@>: > > > > > > > > > > after reading this book several times, and doing " the work " , > i > > > turned > > > > > around > > > > > " my sister is manipulative and approval seeking " to > > > > > > > > > > " i,m manipulative and approval seeking " > > > > > > > > > > But i,m still angry with my sister, feel like its a waste of > > time > > > and > > > > > i,m annoyed. > > > > > > > > > > Ok rant over....so what am i missing, how will this help me > > with > > > my > > > > > difficult emotions? > > > > > > > > > > I had high hopes for this book but now feel very disappointed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Hi Dawn What leaps out at me immediately is " she must not win " . That would be a great thought to do the work on - it's so wonderfully adversarial and alive:-) Very good work you've done - thank you Love Re: Well so what??? ok have done the JYN, this is the 1st is trying to make me look like afool Q1 When people have found out how she has been behaving, people have been supportive and judged her not me....so yes she has, but it has backfired on her Q2 No i cant absolutely know her aim is to make me look foolish, no matter how much i think it to be true Q3 i feel very angry, humiliated and stressed(she must not win), I feel a tightness in my chest and throat My mind attacks her, wants to destroy her, teach her a lesson once and for all, make her feel bad, I also feel guilty/ashamed to be thinking theses things. I treat myself badly when I believe this thought, feel stressed, beat myself up, I feel inadequate I have got to win , prove myself, come out looking good Q4 calmer, less angry, more objective, more willing to cooperate, my mind feels sharper, the problem smaller and more defined, more compassion Turnaround I am trying to make me look like a fool by setting myself up for something I can,t win or if I did win the victory would be hollow and not worth the effort Iam trying to make look like a fool Yes I AM,I AM GOING TO SORT HER OUT ONCE AND FOR ALL is not trying to make me look like a fool I think she is afraid and using anything at her disposal to fight back mmmm, lot to think about there, i cant seem tos top crying when i read this but i still dont know what to do next, i have so much pressure from my manager to sort this problem out thanks for reading, all comments gratefully recieved --- In Loving-what- <mailto:Loving-what-is%40yahoogroups.com> is , wrote: > > Wow Dawn.... > > You dont sound ungrateful at all...and in fact, this is very relevant in it's own way to something that I posted after I replied to you. I am just reading my own words to you and it is so amazing how much i needed to hear all of that. If you read my post you will see how I underminded a friend of mine by passing his email along to another friend without his permission and making comments about him that were less than kind. I have felt like an ungrateful wretch all morning as a result of my own actions and feel I have undermined my friendship with him. Your story is mine, the characters are just a bit different and I am the one who has done ALL of the undermining and have made someone look incredibly stupid (me!). I'm almost at the point where I can laugh at my situation. I'm glad something in that seemed to help you Dawn. I have to go out but am looking fwd to posting some work about this later today. > > C. > > dawnaberu wrote: > " > > Good luck with it..if this all adds more confusion to your mind, > please , > disregard it. " > > No it is helping, hope i,m not sounding like some ungrateful wretch, > i do appreciate your input:-) > > --- > > In Loving-what- <mailto:Loving-what-is%40yahoogroups.com> is , <catherineantle@> > wrote: > > > > Hi Dawn ~ > > > > Yes, my example was simple. I wanted it to be in order to > illustrate the point that people do what they do and the best we can > do is get a clear mind to deal with our own responsiblities with as > much sanity as possible. Act with integrity and trust the outcome > regardless of how undermining someone else is attmpting to be...and I > know this is often easier said than done. > > > > Turn arounds don't always feel as true or truer in the situation > that we are currently working on. Yet, if we look, we can all find > times when we attmpted to undermine, make someone look stupid, etc > and have done so to ourselves as well. If not in this situation then > at some other time. And all that means is that we can understand how > someone else could be confused enough to be acting that way > themselves. We/ve been there at one time or another. > > > > Do what you can to take good care of yourself in this situation, > do what you know it is your job to do, and if you want to keep > seeking the truth, keep doing the work on what you think other's > should or shouldn't be doing. They are doign exactly what they need > to be doing, whether you approve or not...the question is, will you > stop arguing with it and simply do what you need to do in response? > That is the more peaceful place. > > > > Good luck with it..if this all adds more confusion to your mind, > please , disregard it. > > > > C > > > > dawnaberu <dawnaberu@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > " But i,m still angry with my sister, feel like its a waste of > > time > > > and > > > > i,m annoyed. " > > > > > > > > Do you know of another better method? > > > > > > > > Really, > > > > I second doing the JYN worksheet which suggested, > > > > other than that, try seeing your sister as another you, > > > > so how is being manipulative and approval seeking, > > > > how does it feel for you, > > > > does it feel true or truer or just as true or less true? > > > > > > > > Do you see in her things which you don't see in yourself? > > > > What does she show you about your self? > > > > > > > > Feel free to post your inquiry. > > > > > > > > And about the annoyance, > > > > If your annoyed your on a good path, > > > > it means you're getting somewhere really deep, > > > > annoyance is a protection mechanism of your mind, > > > > if the work becomes too true, > > > > and if you see who you really are, > > > > the mind protects itself with these kind of arguments, > > > > because you're seeing things you are not supposed to see, > > > > inquire further, > > > > go deeper, > > > > welcome this annoyance, > > > > and welcome that it's a waste of time, > > > > as far as I can tell, > > > > your sister is a perfect mirror, > > > > she's showing you aspects of your very real nature, > > > > and to see these aspects might hurt you, > > > > that's why it's annoying. > > > > > > > > It's because you don't want to see it, > > > > but you can go beyond, > > > > it's easy, > > > > just use the turnaround mirror, > > > > do the JYN worksheet on your sister, > > > > and when you're done, > > > > turn it around, > > > > the entire worksheet, > > > > put yourself into your sisters shoes, > > > > pretend to be your sister, > > > > and pretend all that you see in her would be true for you too. > > > > > > > > That's who you really are. > > > > And that hurts. > > > > No wonder you are annoyed. > > > > > > > > She's a perfect mirror for you, > > > > and so when you're done, > > > > and when you've seen all the negative aspects about your self, > > > > remind yourself that she is just a mirror, > > > > and mirrors are there to show us who we are, > > > > nothing more, > > > > she's not there to be loving and kind, > > > > she's there to show you your true nature. > > > > > > > > Beside, what's the turnaround for manipulative, and approval > > > seeking? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nehti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2008/2/1, dawnaberu <dawnaberu@>: > > > > > > > > > > after reading this book several times, and doing " the work " , > i > > > turned > > > > > around > > > > > " my sister is manipulative and approval seeking " to > > > > > > > > > > " i,m manipulative and approval seeking " > > > > > > > > > > But i,m still angry with my sister, feel like its a waste of > > time > > > and > > > > > i,m annoyed. > > > > > > > > > > Ok rant over....so what am i missing, how will this help me > > with > > > my > > > > > difficult emotions? > > > > > > > > > > I had high hopes for this book but now feel very disappointed .. <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=3959796/grpspId=1705061248/msgId =44876/stime=1202250532/nc1=5191951/nc2=5191950/nc3=4025338> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Hi Dawn, Great inquiry - seems like it uncovered another belief for you, that you can 'sort someone out'. Is that possible? Might be worth taking " I can sort out " through The Work. Also, you might want to specify the ways you are trying to make her look like a fool. I find this is a humbling experience when I do this. With love, Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Great work! You said you don't know what to do next...you may find that just doing this much has actually changed some things for you already that you may not notice immediately. And if you're like me you may find the crying in an odd way helps " sort things out. " But still you can just keep doing the work as well. What are some other judgments you have about this woman or others? And similar to what has already been said, how about doing the work on " I have got to win, prove myself, come out looking good " ? You might find it helpful to even do the work about the pressure you're feeling from your manager to sort this problem out. But just overall I think you're likely to find things have changed for you already with just this bit. Again...good work. > > ok have done the JYN, this is the 1st > is trying to make me look like afool > > > Q1 When people have found out how she has been behaving, people have > been supportive and judged her not me....so yes she has, but it has > backfired on her > > Q2 No i cant absolutely know her aim is to make me look foolish, no > matter how much i think it to be true > > Q3 i feel very angry, humiliated and stressed(she must not win), I > feel a tightness in my chest and throat > My mind attacks her, wants to destroy her, teach her a lesson once > and for all, make her feel bad, I also feel guilty/ashamed to be > thinking theses things. > I treat myself badly when I believe this thought, feel stressed, beat > myself up, I feel inadequate > I have got to win , prove myself, come out looking good > > Q4 calmer, less angry, more objective, more willing to cooperate, my > mind feels sharper, the problem smaller and more defined, more > compassion > > Turnaround > I am trying to make me look like a fool > by setting myself up for something I can,t win or if I did win > the victory would be hollow and not worth the effort > > Iam trying to make look like a fool > Yes I AM,I AM GOING TO SORT HER OUT ONCE AND FOR ALL > > is not trying to make me look like a fool > I think she is afraid and using anything at her disposal to > fight back > > mmmm, lot to think about there, i cant seem tos top crying when i > read this but i still dont know what to do next, i have so much > pressure from my manager to sort this problem out > thanks for reading, all comments gratefully recieved > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 also no ones right and no ones wrong.. rh- -- In Loving-what-is , " Jon Willis @ SELFHappiness.com " wrote: > > Cool Dawn - and the statement " I'm right and they/she's wrong " may be > where you want to start. > > Often if I notice I'm resisting doing The Work on something it is > because there is something before it to work on, if that makes sense - > instead of trying to step over that to other beliefs I often find it > easier to start there. > > Wow, I just had some hits on the turnaround for this statement - they > are right and I'm wrong, we are both right and we are both wrong :-) > All could be true, including the original statement! > > With love, > > Jon x > > --- Re: Well so what??? > > Date: Tue, February 05, 2008 7:09 pm > To: Loving-what-is > > > For me the mind goes there to continue blaming or justify not doing > The > Work - if I do it then I'll be wrong and they'll be right. " > > I think Jon u have hit the nail on the head, i have become so > entrenched in the i,m right and your wrong game that even when I/it > is causing me pain and suffering i can,t stop. > > Ok gonna give myself a good talking to and do the work on this, > anyone mind if i post later? > > Thanks for your support. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 There is no right or wrong (actions, thoughts etc) but there are consequences. Love Helen > > > > Cool Dawn - and the statement " I'm right and they/she's wrong " may be > > where you want to start. > > > > Often if I notice I'm resisting doing The Work on something it is > > because there is something before it to work on, if that makes sense - > > instead of trying to step over that to other beliefs I often find it > > easier to start there. > > > > Wow, I just had some hits on the turnaround for this statement - they > > are right and I'm wrong, we are both right and we are both wrong :-) > > All could be true, including the original statement! > > > > With love, > > > > Jon x > > > > --- Re: Well so what??? > > From: " dawnaberu " <dawnaberu@> > > Date: Tue, February 05, 2008 7:09 pm > > To: Loving-what-is > > > > > > For me the mind goes there to continue blaming or justify not doing > > The > > Work - if I do it then I'll be wrong and they'll be right. " > > > > I think Jon u have hit the nail on the head, i have become so > > entrenched in the i,m right and your wrong game that even when I/it > > is causing me pain and suffering i can,t stop. > > > > Ok gonna give myself a good talking to and do the work on this, > > anyone mind if i post later? > > > > Thanks for your support. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 To me even consequences are not a good or a bad thing. A Consequence is just something that happens because of something that happened before it. The consequence of paying your bills on time is having a good credit report. Not getting into an accident=lower insurance. Accidentally sending an e-mail to someone you are pretending to like less than you do will free you from continuing to " act phony " which you might have judged someone else for doing and now you can " see " their side of it. A consequence of drinking too much alcohol may be vomiting. Those consequences are not good or bad either. You learn from them. Love _____ From: Loving-what-is [mailto:Loving-what-is ] On Behalf Of helenoftroy1919 Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 12:21 PM To: Loving-what-is Subject: Re: Well so what??? There is no right or wrong (actions, thoughts etc) but there are consequences. Love Helen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I'm fairly sure that Byron has said - " The worst that can happen is believing a thought " . --- Re: Well so what??? There is no right or wrong (actions, thoughts etc) but there are consequences. Love Helen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I totally agree. Nothing is good or bad, but it always leads to the next thing and the next and the next. At any time one can consciously change the path, question the thoughts, etc. if the consequences are not making you joyful and fulfilled. Love Helen > > To me even consequences are not a good or a bad thing. A Consequence is > just something that happens because of something that happened before it. > The consequence of paying your bills on time is having a good credit report. > Not getting into an accident=lower insurance. Accidentally sending an > e-mail to someone you are pretending to like less than you do will free you > from continuing to " act phony " which you might have judged someone else for > doing and now you can " see " their side of it. A consequence of drinking too > much alcohol may be vomiting. Those consequences are not good or bad > either. You learn from them. > > Love > > > > _____ > > From: Loving-what-is [mailto:Loving-what- is ] > On Behalf Of helenoftroy1919 > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 12:21 PM > To: Loving-what-is > Subject: Re: Well so what??? > > > > There is no right or wrong (actions, thoughts etc) but there are > consequences. > > Love Helen > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 > > ok have done the JYN, this is the 1st > is trying to make me look like afool > > > Q1 When people have found out how she has been behaving, people have > been supportive and judged her not me....so yes she has, but it has > backfired on her > > Q2 No i cant absolutely know her aim is to make me look foolish, no > matter how much i think it to be true > > Q3 i feel very angry, humiliated and stressed(she must not win), I > feel a tightness in my chest and throat > My mind attacks her, wants to destroy her, teach her a lesson once > and for all, make her feel bad, I also feel guilty/ashamed to be > thinking theses things. > I treat myself badly when I believe this thought, feel stressed, beat > myself up, I feel inadequate > I have got to win , prove myself, come out looking good > > Q4 calmer, less angry, more objective, more willing to cooperate, my > mind feels sharper, the problem smaller and more defined, more > compassion > > Turnaround > I am trying to make me look like a fool > by setting myself up for something I can,t win or if I did win > the victory would be hollow and not worth the effort > > Iam trying to make look like a fool > Yes I AM,I AM GOING TO SORT HER OUT ONCE AND FOR ALL > > is not trying to make me look like a fool > I think she is afraid and using anything at her disposal to > fight back > > mmmm, lot to think about there, i cant seem tos top crying when i > read this but i still dont know what to do next, i have so much > pressure from my manager to sort this problem out > thanks for reading, all comments gratefully recieved > When you answer question 4 are you answering what you *think* you would feel or what you have *actually* felt when quietly sitting without the thought clouding your mind? To think/perceive without this thought that this person is trying to make you look like a fool is literally like a letting a dark cloud pass by and seeing the view beyond. When you actually see the view beyond, *then* and only then will you honestly feel what that feels like. Answering question 4 is not about using your imagination thinking what it might feel like without the thought, it's an actual experience. If you have experienced that, were there any new realizations that came to you during that experience? For example, " It is not possible for anyone to make me look like a fool. Everyone is responsible for their own perceptions of me, including my boss. " So your main concern might not be that is trying to make you look like a fool but that your boss could possibly be convinced that you are a fool by the manipulations of . Then taking it to possibly more stressful and underlying layers: If my boss thinks I'm a fool, then I could get reprimanded and being reprimanded is an embarrassment and a poor reflection on my job record. My job record is key in making sure I have a good and secure job. Having a good and secure job makes sure I can support myself and my family. I need to support my family. My family needs me. I need to have someone to need me. If no one needs me I will be alone, isolated, rejected, a failure, and worthless. If I have nothing and no one then I am nothing and no one and not capable of joy, love, and gratitude. If I don't have joy, love, gratitude, I could not handle it. If I cannot handle it, I will self-destruct in grief, hate, and resentment. I know that was a rather long example but that is what anxiety and fear (stress) urges us to avoid is our grief, hate, and resentment. The paradox, though, is that we *believe* in grief, hate, and resentment and stress is the apparent tool to get us out of it but it actually creates *more* of it in our lives because of our underlying belief. If you question whether or not that grief, hate, and resentment exist is actually true, you might see that it is not. It is merely a figment of our imagination like a dragon, yet we believe it to be true and react to is as such. It is how we create our dream we call 'reality'. Hope that wasn't too confusing. So, if I see that there can be no such thing as grief, hate, resentment, isolation, rejection, failure, worthlessness, etc., then I'll relax through all those layers of stress and be relaxed in the presence of apparently *trying* to make me look like a fool. I would have the clarity to know how to talk to my boss about the situation and how to calmly and assertively and even with a sense of humor address the issue of . I would also see where is pointing out actual chips in my own character that make the work environment less efficient and where I could improve my performance. And if I see I do not want to exert the effort to make those changes, I might see that this job is not a good fit for me. I might realize that my true calling is elsewhere. However, if this job is a good fit for me, then I would good-naturedly and effortlessly change aspects about myself to better fit myself to the job and people like might not feel a need to undermine me. But if is truly trying to unjustly undermine me, I would dispassionately and efficiently put a system in place that exposes such employees and their morale-degrading, and performance-distracting behavior. Woo! That was fun to ponder. Hope any of that helped... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Hi thanks for this, will do In Loving-what-is , " Starke " wrote: > > Hi Dawn > > What leaps out at me immediately is " she must not win " . That would be a > great thought to do the work on - it's so wonderfully adversarial and > alive:-) > > Very good work you've done - thank you > > Love > > > > Re: Well so what??? > > > > ok have done the JYN, this is the 1st > is trying to make me look like afool > > Q1 When people have found out how she has been behaving, people have > been supportive and judged her not me....so yes she has, but it has > backfired on her > > Q2 No i cant absolutely know her aim is to make me look foolish, no > matter how much i think it to be true > > Q3 i feel very angry, humiliated and stressed(she must not win), I > feel a tightness in my chest and throat > My mind attacks her, wants to destroy her, teach her a lesson once > and for all, make her feel bad, I also feel guilty/ashamed to be > thinking theses things. > I treat myself badly when I believe this thought, feel stressed, beat > myself up, I feel inadequate > I have got to win , prove myself, come out looking good > > Q4 calmer, less angry, more objective, more willing to cooperate, my > mind feels sharper, the problem smaller and more defined, more > compassion > > Turnaround > I am trying to make me look like a fool > by setting myself up for something I can,t win or if I did win > the victory would be hollow and not worth the effort > > Iam trying to make look like a fool > Yes I AM,I AM GOING TO SORT HER OUT ONCE AND FOR ALL > > is not trying to make me look like a fool > I think she is afraid and using anything at her disposal to > fight back > > mmmm, lot to think about there, i cant seem tos top crying when i > read this but i still dont know what to do next, i have so much > pressure from my manager to sort this problem out > thanks for reading, all comments gratefully recieved > > --- > > In Loving-what- <mailto:Loving-what-is%40yahoogroups.com> > is , <catherineantle@> > wrote: > > > > Wow Dawn.... > > > > You dont sound ungrateful at all...and in fact, this is very > relevant in it's own way to something that I posted after I replied > to you. I am just reading my own words to you and it is so amazing > how much i needed to hear all of that. If you read my post you will > see how I underminded a friend of mine by passing his email along to > another friend without his permission and making comments about him > that were less than kind. I have felt like an ungrateful wretch all > morning as a result of my own actions and feel I have undermined my > friendship with him. Your story is mine, the characters are just a > bit different and I am the one who has done ALL of the undermining > and have made someone look incredibly stupid (me!). I'm almost at > the point where I can laugh at my situation. I'm glad something in > that seemed to help you Dawn. I have to go out but am looking fwd to > posting some work about this later today. > > > > C. > > > > dawnaberu <dawnaberu@> wrote: > > " > > > > Good luck with it..if this all adds more confusion to your mind, > > please , > > disregard it. " > > > > No it is helping, hope i,m not sounding like some ungrateful > wretch, > > i do appreciate your input:-) > > > > --- > > > > In Loving-what- <mailto:Loving-what-is%40yahoogroups.com> > is , <catherineantle@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Dawn ~ > > > > > > Yes, my example was simple. I wanted it to be in order to > > illustrate the point that people do what they do and the best we > can > > do is get a clear mind to deal with our own responsiblities with as > > much sanity as possible. Act with integrity and trust the outcome > > regardless of how undermining someone else is attmpting to be...and > I > > know this is often easier said than done. > > > > > > Turn arounds don't always feel as true or truer in the situation > > that we are currently working on. Yet, if we look, we can all find > > times when we attmpted to undermine, make someone look stupid, etc > > and have done so to ourselves as well. If not in this situation > then > > at some other time. And all that means is that we can understand > how > > someone else could be confused enough to be acting that way > > themselves. We/ve been there at one time or another. > > > > > > Do what you can to take good care of yourself in this situation, > > do what you know it is your job to do, and if you want to keep > > seeking the truth, keep doing the work on what you think other's > > should or shouldn't be doing. They are doign exactly what they need > > to be doing, whether you approve or not...the question is, will you > > stop arguing with it and simply do what you need to do in response? > > That is the more peaceful place. > > > > > > Good luck with it..if this all adds more confusion to your mind, > > please , disregard it. > > > > > > C > > > > > > dawnaberu <dawnaberu@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > " But i,m still angry with my sister, feel like its a waste of > > > time > > > > and > > > > > i,m annoyed. " > > > > > > > > > > Do you know of another better method? > > > > > > > > > > Really, > > > > > I second doing the JYN worksheet which suggested, > > > > > other than that, try seeing your sister as another you, > > > > > so how is being manipulative and approval seeking, > > > > > how does it feel for you, > > > > > does it feel true or truer or just as true or less true? > > > > > > > > > > Do you see in her things which you don't see in yourself? > > > > > What does she show you about your self? > > > > > > > > > > Feel free to post your inquiry. > > > > > > > > > > And about the annoyance, > > > > > If your annoyed your on a good path, > > > > > it means you're getting somewhere really deep, > > > > > annoyance is a protection mechanism of your mind, > > > > > if the work becomes too true, > > > > > and if you see who you really are, > > > > > the mind protects itself with these kind of arguments, > > > > > because you're seeing things you are not supposed to see, > > > > > inquire further, > > > > > go deeper, > > > > > welcome this annoyance, > > > > > and welcome that it's a waste of time, > > > > > as far as I can tell, > > > > > your sister is a perfect mirror, > > > > > she's showing you aspects of your very real nature, > > > > > and to see these aspects might hurt you, > > > > > that's why it's annoying. > > > > > > > > > > It's because you don't want to see it, > > > > > but you can go beyond, > > > > > it's easy, > > > > > just use the turnaround mirror, > > > > > do the JYN worksheet on your sister, > > > > > and when you're done, > > > > > turn it around, > > > > > the entire worksheet, > > > > > put yourself into your sisters shoes, > > > > > pretend to be your sister, > > > > > and pretend all that you see in her would be true for you too. > > > > > > > > > > That's who you really are. > > > > > And that hurts. > > > > > No wonder you are annoyed. > > > > > > > > > > She's a perfect mirror for you, > > > > > and so when you're done, > > > > > and when you've seen all the negative aspects about your self, > > > > > remind yourself that she is just a mirror, > > > > > and mirrors are there to show us who we are, > > > > > nothing more, > > > > > she's not there to be loving and kind, > > > > > she's there to show you your true nature. > > > > > > > > > > Beside, what's the turnaround for manipulative, and approval > > > > seeking? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nehti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2008/2/1, dawnaberu <dawnaberu@>: > > > > > > > > > > > > after reading this book several times, and doing " the > work " , > > i > > > > turned > > > > > > around > > > > > > " my sister is manipulative and approval seeking " to > > > > > > > > > > > > " i,m manipulative and approval seeking " > > > > > > > > > > > > But i,m still angry with my sister, feel like its a waste > of > > > time > > > > and > > > > > > i,m annoyed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok rant over....so what am i missing, how will this help me > > > with > > > > my > > > > > > difficult emotions? > > > > > > > > > > > > I had high hopes for this book but now feel very > disappointed > > > . > > <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv? s=97359714/grpId=3959796/grpspId=1705061248/msgId > =44876/stime=1202250532/nc1=5191951/nc2=5191950/nc3=4025338> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 When you answer question 4 are you answering what you *think* you would feel or what you have *actually* felt when quietly sitting without the thought clouding your mind? To think/perceive without this thought that this person is trying to make you look like a fool is literally like a letting a dark cloud pass by and seeing the view beyond. When you actually see the view beyond, *then* and only then will you honestly feel what that feels like. Answering question 4 is not about using your imagination thinking what it might feel like without the thought, it's an actual experience. My honest answer is i dont know but i suspect it maybe 90% imagination , I have tried for the past 30 mins to see who i would be without this thought but when doing so it feels as if I am meditating very badly( have tried for years to practice meditation but always give up due to my discomfort and boredom) I believe at this moment i cant answwr this question....it feels like a great strugle, everytime I try to see what lies behind it, the thought seems bigger and the view is more obscured In Loving-what-is , " Hypegia Phoebe " wrote: > > > > > > ok have done the JYN, this is the 1st > > is trying to make me look like afool > > > > > > Q1 When people have found out how she has been behaving, people have > > been supportive and judged her not me....so yes she has, but it has > > backfired on her > > > > Q2 No i cant absolutely know her aim is to make me look foolish, no > > matter how much i think it to be true > > > > Q3 i feel very angry, humiliated and stressed(she must not win), I > > feel a tightness in my chest and throat > > My mind attacks her, wants to destroy her, teach her a lesson once > > and for all, make her feel bad, I also feel guilty/ashamed to be > > thinking theses things. > > I treat myself badly when I believe this thought, feel stressed, beat > > myself up, I feel inadequate > > I have got to win , prove myself, come out looking good > > > > Q4 calmer, less angry, more objective, more willing to cooperate, my > > mind feels sharper, the problem smaller and more defined, more > > compassion > > > > Turnaround > > I am trying to make me look like a fool > > by setting myself up for something I can,t win or if I did win > > the victory would be hollow and not worth the effort > > > > Iam trying to make look like a fool > > Yes I AM,I AM GOING TO SORT HER OUT ONCE AND FOR ALL > > > > is not trying to make me look like a fool > > I think she is afraid and using anything at her disposal to > > fight back > > > > mmmm, lot to think about there, i cant seem tos top crying when i > > read this but i still dont know what to do next, i have so much > > pressure from my manager to sort this problem out > > thanks for reading, all comments gratefully recieved > > > > When you answer question 4 are you answering what you *think* you > would feel or what you have *actually* felt when quietly sitting > without the thought clouding your mind? To think/perceive without this > thought that this person is trying to make you look like a fool is > literally like a letting a dark cloud pass by and seeing the view > beyond. When you actually see the view beyond, *then* and only then > will you honestly feel what that feels like. Answering question 4 is > not about using your imagination thinking what it might feel like > without the thought, it's an actual experience. > > If you have experienced that, were there any new realizations that > came to you during that experience? For example, " It is not possible > for anyone to make me look like a fool. Everyone is responsible for > their own perceptions of me, including my boss. " So your main concern > might not be that is trying to make you look like a fool but that > your boss could possibly be convinced that you are a fool by the > manipulations of . Then taking it to possibly more stressful and > underlying layers: If my boss thinks I'm a fool, then I could get > reprimanded and being reprimanded is an embarrassment and a poor > reflection on my job record. My job record is key in making sure I > have a good and secure job. Having a good and secure job makes sure I > can support myself and my family. I need to support my family. My > family needs me. I need to have someone to need me. If no one needs me > I will be alone, isolated, rejected, a failure, and worthless. If I > have nothing and no one then I am nothing and no one and not capable > of joy, love, and gratitude. If I don't have joy, love, gratitude, I > could not handle it. If I cannot handle it, I will self-destruct in > grief, hate, and resentment. > > I know that was a rather long example but that is what anxiety and > fear (stress) urges us to avoid is our grief, hate, and resentment. > The paradox, though, is that we *believe* in grief, hate, and > resentment and stress is the apparent tool to get us out of it but it > actually creates *more* of it in our lives because of our underlying > belief. If you question whether or not that grief, hate, and > resentment exist is actually true, you might see that it is not. It is > merely a figment of our imagination like a dragon, yet we believe it > to be true and react to is as such. It is how we create our dream we > call 'reality'. > > Hope that wasn't too confusing. > > So, if I see that there can be no such thing as grief, hate, > resentment, isolation, rejection, failure, worthlessness, etc., then > I'll relax through all those layers of stress and be relaxed in the > presence of apparently *trying* to make me look like a fool. I > would have the clarity to know how to talk to my boss about the > situation and how to calmly and assertively and even with a sense of > humor address the issue of . I would also see where is > pointing out actual chips in my own character that make the work > environment less efficient and where I could improve my performance. > And if I see I do not want to exert the effort to make those changes, > I might see that this job is not a good fit for me. I might realize > that my true calling is elsewhere. However, if this job is a good fit > for me, then I would good-naturedly and effortlessly change aspects > about myself to better fit myself to the job and people like > might not feel a need to undermine me. But if is truly trying to > unjustly undermine me, I would dispassionately and efficiently put a > system in place that exposes such employees and their > morale-degrading, and performance-distracting behavior. > > Woo! > > That was fun to ponder. Hope any of that helped... > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 I hadn't caught what was said about question 4 until now - I fidn it hard to read postings with comments added into the original posting. I disagree about question 4 and using imagination - for me it is very much imagining what I would feel like without this belief in my life - I like to think of it as " reverse visualisation " - most visualisation techniques seem to focus on life with things, whereas what I like about question 4 is that it focuses on life without :-) For me when I do this it becomes an actual experience in the moment. One of the places I can get caught is trying with question 4 - I find sitting back, taking a deep breath, letting go allows whatever feeling to come up more easily. For me an image of an old window frame comes to mind, painted with layers and layers of paint - I see the layers as the beliefs I have. Sometimes all I can imagine is very slightly lifting off a layer of paint just for a moment. But hey, what can you expect, some of these layers of paint have been with me a long time! Also what I often helpful is to take the concept in the thought and imagine not knowing what it is - for example, dishonesty - if I didn't know what it meant. With much love, Jon x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 I loved all that Phoebe! _____ From: Loving-what-is [mailto:Loving-what-is ] On Behalf Of Hypegia Phoebe Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 7:17 PM To: Loving-what-is Subject: Re: Well so what??? > > ok have done the JYN, this is the 1st > is trying to make me look like afool > > > Q1 When people have found out how she has been behaving, people have > been supportive and judged her not me....so yes she has, but it has > backfired on her > > Q2 No i cant absolutely know her aim is to make me look foolish, no > matter how much i think it to be true > > Q3 i feel very angry, humiliated and stressed(she must not win), I > feel a tightness in my chest and throat > My mind attacks her, wants to destroy her, teach her a lesson once > and for all, make her feel bad, I also feel guilty/ashamed to be > thinking theses things. > I treat myself badly when I believe this thought, feel stressed, beat > myself up, I feel inadequate > I have got to win , prove myself, come out looking good > > Q4 calmer, less angry, more objective, more willing to cooperate, my > mind feels sharper, the problem smaller and more defined, more > compassion > > Turnaround > I am trying to make me look like a fool > by setting myself up for something I can,t win or if I did win > the victory would be hollow and not worth the effort > > Iam trying to make look like a fool > Yes I AM,I AM GOING TO SORT HER OUT ONCE AND FOR ALL > > is not trying to make me look like a fool > I think she is afraid and using anything at her disposal to > fight back > > mmmm, lot to think about there, i cant seem tos top crying when i > read this but i still dont know what to do next, i have so much > pressure from my manager to sort this problem out > thanks for reading, all comments gratefully recieved > When you answer question 4 are you answering what you *think* you would feel or what you have *actually* felt when quietly sitting without the thought clouding your mind? To think/perceive without this thought that this person is trying to make you look like a fool is literally like a letting a dark cloud pass by and seeing the view beyond. When you actually see the view beyond, *then* and only then will you honestly feel what that feels like. Answering question 4 is not about using your imagination thinking what it might feel like without the thought, it's an actual experience. If you have experienced that, were there any new realizations that came to you during that experience? For example, " It is not possible for anyone to make me look like a fool. Everyone is responsible for their own perceptions of me, including my boss. " So your main concern might not be that is trying to make you look like a fool but that your boss could possibly be convinced that you are a fool by the manipulations of . Then taking it to possibly more stressful and underlying layers: If my boss thinks I'm a fool, then I could get reprimanded and being reprimanded is an embarrassment and a poor reflection on my job record. My job record is key in making sure I have a good and secure job. Having a good and secure job makes sure I can support myself and my family. I need to support my family. My family needs me. I need to have someone to need me. If no one needs me I will be alone, isolated, rejected, a failure, and worthless. If I have nothing and no one then I am nothing and no one and not capable of joy, love, and gratitude. If I don't have joy, love, gratitude, I could not handle it. If I cannot handle it, I will self-destruct in grief, hate, and resentment. I know that was a rather long example but that is what anxiety and fear (stress) urges us to avoid is our grief, hate, and resentment. The paradox, though, is that we *believe* in grief, hate, and resentment and stress is the apparent tool to get us out of it but it actually creates *more* of it in our lives because of our underlying belief. If you question whether or not that grief, hate, and resentment exist is actually true, you might see that it is not. It is merely a figment of our imagination like a dragon, yet we believe it to be true and react to is as such. It is how we create our dream we call 'reality'. Hope that wasn't too confusing. So, if I see that there can be no such thing as grief, hate, resentment, isolation, rejection, failure, worthlessness, etc., then I'll relax through all those layers of stress and be relaxed in the presence of apparently *trying* to make me look like a fool. I would have the clarity to know how to talk to my boss about the situation and how to calmly and assertively and even with a sense of humor address the issue of . I would also see where is pointing out actual chips in my own character that make the work environment less efficient and where I could improve my performance. And if I see I do not want to exert the effort to make those changes, I might see that this job is not a good fit for me. I might realize that my true calling is elsewhere. However, if this job is a good fit for me, then I would good-naturedly and effortlessly change aspects about myself to better fit myself to the job and people like might not feel a need to undermine me. But if is truly trying to unjustly undermine me, I would dispassionately and efficiently put a system in place that exposes such employees and their morale-degrading, and performance-distracting behavior. Woo! That was fun to ponder. Hope any of that helped... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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