Re: It all went wrong again...

[Guest guest]

Hi, Becky! Hugs to you. I am sorry for your pain.

This is too darn long, I'm sorry.

The short version is: please reconsider staying with him and having kids. You

think you're stuck now, just wait until you have children withn him.

The long version:

I have been married to my AS husband for almost 15 years and we have two kids, 9

and 6. I wish I had known about his Asperger's BEFORE we got married and had

kids. I would never have married him. Love is not enough to deal with this daily

heartache.

My hubby has many good qualities, but being a good husband is not one of them.

He does not share his feelings and he has cheated on me (not in real life,

because his AS, prudishness and shyness makes that virtually impossible, but he

joined a local online dating site--did not contact anyone in the three years he

was there, but looked at their profiles every day and made up a ridiculous doozy

of a profile for himself! Apparently my husband cooks and hikes and does all

sorts of active things!) He did have to undergo a lie detector test to get back

into our house, so I know he did not contact anyone. (Something is wrong in your

life if someone you " love " has to hire a lie detection firm to make sure you are

telling the truth?)

Because of AS and the attendant hair-splitting, he does not think what he did

was so terrible, even though it was VERY clearly against the mutually-agreed

upon rules of our marriage. He claims he was just " fantasizing about US and

early days together, before we had kids and life got tougher. That he never

wanted to be with anyone else. He loves me and only me, blah blah. " I believe

that if he just had the courage, he would be with another woman by now. Well, he

would have been with 10 different women by now because there is not a single

woman alive who would put up with this neglectful and unkind crap forever.

Even 3.5 years and three marriage counselors later (who all tell him what he did

was very wrong and that he has to work every minute to rebuild my trust), I

cannot envision ever trusting him. He makes only half-assed efforts to do the

things I need to feel safe and loved in our marriage. The only thing he is

consistent about is being inconsistent. Despite being attracted to me, he does

not want to have sex with me, so I am very frustrated all of the time. Our

counselor insisted we have a sex schedule, which is possibly one of the least

romantic things, but at least I have sex.

He wants to stay with me. He " loves " me. He has even refused to leave our house.

And why the hell would he? I am a great caregiver. I work fulltime yet still

take care of everyone's needs, including his. I enable him, which sounds like

what you are doing.

I dislike this version of myself: the bitter, unloved, frightened, middle-aged

mom. Something has to change or I have to leave. I am still grappling with

whether I should stay in the marriage or not. In the three years since I found

out about his cheating, he has not made significant inroads into re-building the

trust between us.

I honestly think one obstacle is that he still is puzzled as to why I am upset

about the cheating, since he did not actually have sex with anyone. Aah, the

joys of AS hairsplitting. All he says is he is " trying, " as if that is enough.

He does not ask for forgiveness (wheny ou think you did nothing wrong, why would

you need to ask for that???)

I have zero pride left. I have to humble myself millions of times and beg for

exactly what I need and he STILL says he does not understand what I need so he

is unable to give it to me. Since he cannot take in new information easily, he

screws up a lot and each time brings me back to the very first moment I

discovered he was cheating on me. The PTSD wins. I lose.

We argue a lot about BIG ideas of marriage and life (loyalty, friendship,

etc.)and he can only manage the minutiae, like " oh, to build trust you need me

to be accountable to you and check in often. OK!I will call you every 10 minutes

to let you know where I am " (which I do not want)and then disappears for two

days, ostensibly to visit his sick brother,without so much as a phone call home.

Due to his AS, he does not handle gray areas well, just black or white. He

demands that I be very specific about what I want, even when all I want is for

my husband, my former best friend, to know me as no one else ever could know me.

Not good qualities to be my partner, or even a parent, since everything in life

is gray.

My children are wonderful people and I am lucky to be their mom, but if I had to

do it all over again, I would not have married him, even if it meant being

childless. Love is not enough. I am in deep pain.

Do not think of the time you spent with your husband as " lost " or " wasted. " It

was a valuable experience for you to learn what matters to you as a person. Now

go out and use that wisdom to find a relationship that makes you feel

appreciated, loved and secure. (I am trying to take my own advice, just so you

know!)

I am stuck. Unless I do something drastic, I will remain stuck. Please

reconsider having kids with him. Then, you will be stuck, too. Even more stuck

than you are right now. He will not or cannot change. God willing, my younger

son will be off to college in just 12 years--wonder if I can make it that long?

I'd say " LOL " but I have no laughter left in me.

Find someone who gives you as much as you give him. Life is too short to be

" stuck. "

I wish you luck.

Nicolle

P.S.

I have said all of this to my husband many, many times. He is a member here and

will read my note to you and not even know or care that it's about him. Sigh.

>

> Hiya, well I should have seen it coming, really, being the so-say NT in the

relationship.

>

> Last year, yet again, J shut down on me. I just couldn't get through to him.

He fell into himself, and basically, last time was so horrid, that I was very

clear that I personally couldn't cope with it happening again. We went through

several months of couples counselling, with someone familiar with AS, it seemed

to hope.

>

> Then J got a job in Germany, so everything was about that. Just coping with

moving, getting there reasonably sane, I organised and coordinated everything.

I gave him straightforward tasks to involve him, and he seemd happy to have some

input at that level. We were both totally preoccupied with getting to Germany

in one piece. The reason for me taking over is because j will have meltdowns,

temper tantrums, anxiety and panic if he has to deal with this sort of thing,

and also he will just completely shut down, going through previous UK only house

moves. So I end up doing everything anyway. So I tried to involve him by

supporting me, as I was protecting him....

>

> Following on from the counselling, I had been trying to communicate with Jon

in all the ways we had aggreed were good. I kept telling him that we needed to

mutually support eachother, that I needed support, as I was taking the brunt of

everything, to protect him, that he needed to support me in small ways. He made

noises of understanding and I thought it would be ok.

>

> We got out here, and I got us registered all the civic administration,

liaising with the relocation team and so on, to get everything set up.

>

> And that is pretty much when I noticed he was shutting down on me. He started

work, and has been going out with colleagues, he has the chance to come and go

as he pleases, and I have tried to support this, so that he can adjust to this

new life. I have said that he needs to measure his social activity with the men

who have a family, and to pace himself with those, as we *were* starting to

think about trying for a baby in the next few months - to a year, as *we* had

agreed that things were looking much brighter as a couple.

>

> So roll on time, he continued to be totally closed, no smile, no eye contact,

just like a zombie. I really tried everything to keep the pressure off him, but

he just became more distant. And in every way, emotionally, intellectually and

physically. He would give me a token daily stroke,(less than our dogs were

getting). I was trying to continue protecting him, and he continued to be

totally absent. As I don't work, and I am a sociable person, I have been trying

to get some contact with the outsie world, although it's not exactly peachy. I

did sit down and try to explain to J that I was intensely lonely, very

vulnerable and sexually about to explode. But he didn't hear me at all. I

tried to do it a couple more times, and in tears. BUt he was just absent.

>

> I then lost my rag (I am sorry, I had tried everything, and nothing would get

through to him). I told him this was exactly the same as last year, when we had

very nearly divorced.

>

> My biggest problem is how to get him to listen, when he is shut down.

>

> He has massive discrepancies between his intentions and the reality that in

his head we have this peachy marriage, whereas, I try to do so much for him, to

free him up for work, and he then totally ignores me.

>

> He says he doesn't mean to do it, and he says that he wants to change. He

says that he want s another chance to prove to me that the relationship can

work.

>

> It hurts me so massively when he shuts down on me, that I am no longer feeling

in love with him. I thought I was being clear to him, telling him what I

needed, approaching problems in a pro-aspie manner, to support him in every way

possible.

>

> I am completely empty. Kids are so far off the agenda, because I really don't

feel I can trust him. He has made hollow promises to me now for over 7 years.

Promising to change and me believing it. He is desperate to keep me. I am now

in a foreign country, I don't speak the language, and my mental health has taken

a massive hit, from him shutting down on me. I care for him deeply and worry

about him, but I really don't know whether to give him 'another last chance'.

He's had so many and it's really just continuing to make me ill.

>

> Any advice would be deeply appreciated. I genuinely feel that I have given

everything I know and approached this problem from every angle, but it seems

that if he has shut down, I just can't get through to him without threatening

divorce. It's horribly painful to have to keep going through such a breakdown in

the relationship. I can't make him listen or 'snap out of it' or anything.

>

> I am seriously considering just leaving him. He's had 10 years of my youth.

I am now 34, I have a right to feel loved and safe in a relationship, but just

can't see how I will be able to get that back, as part of me has just down now,

out of sheer self protection.

>

> Thanks for taking time to read this.

>

[Guest guest]

> Over the years I have cautioned members that when it gets past this point,

it's going to be very hard, if not impossible to get that feeling back, and I

can now verify this from personal experience. Eventually there will come a point

where you will no longer feel angry or sad about the repeated hurt and

abandonment. It's like your brain will simply seal itself off from those

pathways to hurt, but the downside is you will no longer be open to loving and

trusting, and running the risk of getting hit with another let-down, ever again.

You described the phenomenon very well, Helen. This is exactly the

place where my late husband arrived at late in our marriage. It doesn't

matter that much of his perceived hurt and abandonment was based on

misinterpretations of my behavior (due to neither of us knowing anything

about AS). To him, the experience and ongoing emotional suffering was

real and ultimately lead to his infidelity. [Then it was my turn to feel

hurt and abandoned.]

> Often we find that behaviors we developed as children to survive are carried

over to adulthood even when they are no longer needed. Some children learned it

was very important to " stay under the radar " and keep others happy with us, or

much pain would ensue. As adults why we felt vaguely not as worthy as others,

and vaguely unreasonable when we realized we have our own needs. We somehow felt

we must keep atoning for being less than worthy human beings, and we did this

with a lifetime of servitude and self denial that often felt like punishment.

>

> But eventually, Becky, it's impossible not to feel resentful about the one-way

outflow of all your energies, when nothing, nothing is coming back in to

replenish you. As time and health ebbs away, bitterness *will* creep in.

Eventually, like an abscess, it *will* burst and get spewed back all over the

people you felt with-held the basics of life from you. At that point, we don't

recognize ourselves any more and hate the person we have become. In the end,

being a martyr serves no one.

Helen, you describe my late husband perfectly. Due to the circumstances

in his family of origin, he became a poster child for codependency. He

enabled me for many years, and the bitterness eventually took its toll.

Once he decided that he wanted to be " codependent no'mo " , the pendulum

swung to the other extreme and I became the enemy who could do nothing

right. This mentality also served to justify infidelity, but that's a

whole other topic.....

> If your partner (or any one else you interact with) repeatedly fails to live

up to expectations, then there has to be real consequences. If you don't follow

through, you may be unwittingly enabling the other person's behaviors to

continue and thwarting their progress. They need to see " cause and effect " in

order to grow and develop as a person too and I hope that in realizing that, it

will assuage your guilt over terminating your parental role in this marriage.

This was the very advice that my late husband eventually was able to

embrace and act upon. Although not without a huge amount of

self-loathing and guilt (and we all know where that lead).

Best,

~CJ

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No matter how many mistakes you make or how slow you progress,

you are still way ahead of everyone who isn't trying.