Re: Interesting Quote Of The Day

February 9, 2008

KC, Carl and Doug,

Those are all excellent posts.

Immuno-suppressed. If one broke their leg yesterday, their immune system is

suppressed in much of their body today because it is having to work so hard

in one area of the body in order to heal. That is one thing that has always

bothered me about the IOM report. They state that HP occurs in susceptible

people. But they never define the term susceptible. So..if one got HP, they

must have been susceptible. I would be inclined to think that term is

synonymous with immuno-suppressed - whether short term or long term

suppression.

But also, if I understand Doug's post, I am also inclined to believe if one

is exposed to enough mold and the right kind of mold, illness will occur - no

matter what state one's immune system is in, because the continued exposure

to this antigen itself weakens the immune system from continually fighting

back.

And KC,

" To get others to come into our ways of thinking, we must go over to theirs;

and it is necessary to follow, in order to lead. " - Hazlitt

I love this quote!! This is exactly why I spend so much time reading

defense expert witness testimonies and trying to understand who

controls/influences

medical associations and how info flows in and out of our government

involving these associations. I am just trying to follow the trail that leads

back

to the trail head of the misinformation.

Sharon K

In a message dated 2/9/2008 1:52:07 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

grimes@... writes:

Doug,

Thank you for these excellent points. One other subtlety I'd like to

discuss involves the term " immunocompetent patients. "

The reference of choice used to be be " immunocompromised "

such as HIV, chemo and radiation therapy for cancer, organ

transplants, etc. This is a small percentage of the total population

and relatively easy to specifically identify. They are all " patients. "

But we all have a natural adverse response and rejection to being

included in this group of " sickies, " especially with any hint of HIV.

So we quickly exclude ourselves from consideration and assume

we are, of course, " immunocompetent.we are, of course, " immunocomp

applies to me.

But if we expand the labels beyond the extreme opposites to

include the " immune suppressed " individuals (not just patients)

then the group expands with the temporarily compromised people

such as during preganancy, newborns and infants, elderly, certain

drugs, colds and flu, inadequate sleep, environmental exposures,

etc. Dr Eugene Cole, DrPH, has publically stated that

approximately 12% of the population is " immune suppressed, " by

the strictor definition, at any one time.

What about other susceptibilities such as allergies and asthma?

The range of this group varies from 8% to as high as 30% of the

population. Two years ago the NIH published their study of 2700

people and 10 common aeroallergens. 53% were allergic to at

least one!

So what does " immunocompetent " mean? I think the argument

could be developed, with the evidence increasingly supporting it,

that the " immunocompetent " is no longer the assumed state of

health for all but a unique, insignificant segment of the public that

is " immuneocompromisedis

If the " immunocompetent " population is decreasing, then the

formerly " rare " illnesses of the " immunocompromised " will

increase to " common " and then " expected. "

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> KC: The quote you have posted is great, and here is another one that will

state directly what has happened in my chosen field of study, Molecular Psych

(i.e., sub-field " Environmental Health Psychology " ) KC: The quote you have

posted is great, and here is another one that will state directly what has h

>

> " In the sciences, people quickly come to regard as their own personal

property that which they have learned and had passed on to them at the

universities and academies. If someone else comes along with new ideas that

contradict

the Credo and in fact even threaten to overturn it, then all passions are

raised against this threat and no method is left untried to suppress it. People

resist it in every way possible: pretending not to have heard about it;

speaking disparagingly of it, as if it were not even worth the effort of

looking

into the matter. And so a new truth can have a long wait before finally being

accepted. " -- " In t

>

> It is extremely true in today's quest for the medical field to own up to

their Hippocratic Oath in recognizing that people with immune competent

systems can and do become seriously ill in homes and offices. Today there

exists

overwhelming scientific " peer " evidence that observes pathogenic microfungi

exposures as being a contributing factor, and often the " primary cause, " of

serious genetic mutations and in diseases formally classified as " idiopathic "

in

medical theory. One will often read in a medical journal or hear a health

practitioner say that, " Serious health complications due to molds are " rare " in

immunocompetent patients. " However, it is a well known fact that unlike

diseases that have bacterial and viral causation, those diseases that have a

suspected fungal origin are " not reportable " to any medical agency such as the

CDC

or FDA. Medical schools " rarely " provide " any " lengthy structural education

for medical students to understand even the basics as to who, when,

where, how, and why microfungi become " pathogenic " (i.e.,

disease-causing)where, how, and why microfungi become " pathogenic " (i.e.,

disease-causing)<WBR>. Finally, as long as the medical field continues to

observe live-celled,

decomposing active, microfungi (i.e., molds and yeasts) as purely " allergen "

related in nature to the human immune system, and not " pathogenic " to human

cells subtly inflicting genetic mutations, humans will continue to cruelly

suffer

and die, until one day " a new truth " finally is accepted... long after the

" baby boomers " have passed from the earth. Unless... we as a s

>

> Thank you.

>

> Doug Haney

> Environmental Health Projects: Research & Consulting

> Email: __Haney52@_Han_ (mailto:_Haney52@...)

>

> God Bless and take care.

>

> _@ickbui_

(mailto:@...) : _tigerpaw2c@..._

(mailto:tigerpaw2c@...) :

Sat, 9 Feb 2008 01:32:58 +0000Subject: [] Interesting Quote Of The

Day

>

> Quote Of The Day " To get others to come into our ways of thinking, we must

go over to theirs; and it is necessary to follow, in order to lead. " -

Hazlitt

**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.

(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002\

5

48)

February 9, 2008

KC: The quote you have posted is great, and here is another one that will state

directly what has happened in my chosen field of study, Molecular Psych (i.e.,

sub-field " Environmental Health Psychology " ). The following quote is the lead

statement in my newest book presently in work, " Of Molds and Men " :

" In the sciences, people quickly come to regard as their own personal property

that which they have learned and had passed on to them at the universities and

academies. If someone else comes along with new ideas that contradict the Credo

and in fact even threaten to overturn it, then all passions are raised against

this threat and no method is left untried to suppress it. People resist it in

every way possible: pretending not to have heard about it; speaking

disparagingly of it, as if it were not even worth the effort of looking into the

matter. And so a new truth can have a long wait before finally being

accepted. " --Goethe

It is extremely true in today's quest for the medical field to own up to their

Hippocratic Oath in recognizing that people with immune competent systems can

and do become seriously ill in homes and offices. Today there exists

overwhelming scientific " peer " evidence that observes pathogenic microfungi

exposures as being a contributing factor, and often the " primary cause, " of

serious genetic mutations and in diseases formally classified as " idiopathic " in

medical theory. One will often read in a medical journal or hear a health

practitioner say that, " Serious health complications due to molds are " rare " in

immunocompetent patients. " However, it is a well known fact that unlike diseases

that have bacterial and viral causation, those diseases that have a suspected

fungal origin are " not reportable " to any medical agency such as the CDC or FDA.

Medical schools " rarely " provide " any " lengthy structural education for medical

students to understand even the basics as to who, when, where, how, and why

microfungi become " pathogenic " (i.e., disease-causing). Finally, as long as the

medical field continues to observe live-celled, decomposing active, microfungi

(i.e., molds and yeasts) as purely " allergen " related in nature to the human

immune system, and not " pathogenic " to human cells subtly inflicting genetic

mutations, humans will continue to cruelly suffer and die, until one day " a new

truth " finally is accepted... long after the " baby boomers " have passed from the

earth. Unless... we as a society intervene, get people to listen, and change

the mindset of our leaders.

Thank you.

Doug Haney

Environmental Health Projects: Research & Consulting

Email: _Haney52@...

God Bless and take care.

@...: tigerpaw2c@...: Sat, 9 Feb 2008

01:32:58 +0000Subject: [] Interesting Quote Of The Day

Quote Of The Day " To get others to come into our ways of thinking, we must go

over to theirs; and it is necessary to follow, in order to lead. " -

Hazlitt

_________________________________________________________________

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February 9, 2008

Doug,

Thank you for these excellent points. One other subtlety I'd like to

discuss involves the term " immunocompetent patients. "

The reference of choice used to be be " immunocompromised "

such as HIV, chemo and radiation therapy for cancer, organ

transplants, etc. This is a small percentage of the total population

and relatively easy to specifically identify. They are all " patients. "

But we all have a natural adverse response and rejection to being

included in this group of " sickies, " especially with any hint of HIV.

So we quickly exclude ourselves from consideration and assume

we are, of course, " immunocompetent. " Therefore, none of this

applies to me.

But if we expand the labels beyond the extreme opposites to

include the " immune suppressed " individuals (not just patients)

then the group expands with the temporarily compromised people

such as during preganancy, newborns and infants, elderly, certain

drugs, colds and flu, inadequate sleep, environmental exposures,

etc. Dr Eugene Cole, DrPH, has publically stated that

approximately 12% of the population is " immune suppressed, " by

the strictor definition, at any one time.

What about other susceptibilities such as allergies and asthma?

The range of this group varies from 8% to as high as 30% of the

population. Two years ago the NIH published their study of 2700

people and 10 common aeroallergens. 53% were allergic to at

least one!

So what does " immunocompetent " mean? I think the argument

could be developed, with the evidence increasingly supporting it,

that the " immunocompetent " is no longer the assumed state of

health for all but a unique, insignificant segment of the public that

is " immuneocompromised. "

If the " immunocompetent " population is decreasing, then the

formerly " rare " illnesses of the " immunocompromised " will

increase to " common " and then " expected. "

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> KC: The quote you have posted is great, and here is another one that will

state directly what has happened in my chosen field of study, Molecular Psych

(i.e., sub-field " Environmental Health Psychology " ). The following quote is the

lead statement in my newest book presently in work, " Of Molds and Men " :

>

> " In the sciences, people quickly come to regard as their own personal property

that which they have learned and had passed on to them at the universities and

academies. If someone else comes along with new ideas that contradict the Credo

and in fact even threaten to overturn it, then all passions are raised against

this threat and no method is left untried to suppress it. People resist it in

every way possible: pretending not to have heard about it; speaking

disparagingly of it, as if it were not even worth the effort of looking into the

matter. And so a new truth can have a long wait before finally being

accepted. " --Goethe

>

> It is extremely true in today's quest for the medical field to own up to their