Re: on apologies

[Guest guest]

I must join in here. (and by the way, welcome back .) Two issues in regard to apologies when they are delivered by an Aspie. Firstly, however sincere the apology might be, the other party has to recognize it as sincere. And the vocal irregularities all too often engaged in by the AS one, can make the truthful apology appear contrived and unreliable. As we have discussed on this forum before, the Aspie might not automatically come out with a truthful statement in a convincing manner. All too often, the honest and sincere words that are spoken have not sprung as it were, direct from the heart to the mouth. They have had to be filtered through the head first. So that both the minute delay, and the considered words don’t ring true to the NT listener. As a result too, the Aspie has in the particular incidence just ‘another example’ of how people don’t believe him. This makes him all the more over-careful in his speech, and thereby unbelievable in the future. Then the other point is that if the Aspie has the problem with ‘central coherence’, he may well be prepared to avoid the offensive behaviour in future, - in the literal terms that he has comprehended it. However, it just might not occur to him to apply the inhibition to other related situations that don’t literally come in the same definition. I might suggest as an example out of the top of my head that a guy who promises always to ring his wife when he is held back at the office, might well not realize that he should ring his wife if he’s held back at the football club as well, or in a session at the pub. Not really a great example, but I’m not kidding here. I fell into traps like this myself, and I know. Cheers, Ron From: aspires-relationships [mailto:aspires-relationships ] On Behalf Of CJSent: Tuesday, 26 June 2012 11:38 AMTo: aspires-relationships Subject: Re: Love means (occasionally) having to say you're sorry: study Or it might mean that they have a less satisfied relationship BECAUSE the person gives fake apologies. This article writes like they've never met a person who apologizes insincerely. Doesn't mean apologies are not beneficial to that person, just means apolgies are not beneficial when coming from someone who is not sorry! When person persistently apologizes for something but continues to do that harmful action over and over... it loses any usefulness. That doesn't mean that the apology is insincere though (although it might be). Apologizing for a certain behavior, yet having the ability to not repeat it ever again, are two distinctly different critters. It all depends on what the offending behavior is, and whether it's the result of a deeply entrenched habit or learning disability.For example, I have numerous social pragmatics impairments. The most severe include my inability to determine when others have stopped talking, resulting in my interrupting them before they are done speaking. Another deficit is my vocal tone, where I tend to drop my voice as I approach the end of a sentence, conveying the impression that I am commanding rather than conversing. Men may be able to get away with this behavior to some degree, yet the social consequences are especially severe when one is female.Over the years, as my self-awareness has increased, I have become far better at minimizing my deficits so that I can have some form of social life and a job. But that requires that I remain constantly on stage, which makes being around other people thoroughly exhausting. Yet if I relax even a tiny bit, I start interrupting people and issuing unintentional commands that result in all sorts of misunderstandings and consequences.That's why I prefer my own company, as it's the only time that I can get a break from the stage. For many years I used alcohol to provide that badly needed escape, but these days I will need to make do with my own company and the unconditional love of a cat or two.All of this is a long-winded way of saying that my apologies are sincere, yet I cannot promise that I won't re-offend you tomorrow. Also I think people in satisfied relationships are satisfied BECAUSE the other person is a decent human who treats them right. Therefore their apology would be automatically forgivable. I see many shades of gray here, depending on the challenges of each individual. But for the most part, I agree with you at a high level.Best,~CJ

[Guest guest]

I like the discussion about apologies. My husband with AS doesn't give many

apologies, but when he does I believe him. I don't think he would fake an

apology, no matter how his voice sounds or what his expression looks like.

In our case, he has a harder time believing me if I don't do it a certain

way. He usually thinks there are ulterior motives involved. And sometimes

he is right. Sometimes he really figures me out before I have even figured

myself out. He wants me to be so pure with him that it forces me to examine

all of my motives. I cannot be as pure as he would like, but I do think it

has been good for me. Sometimes he just has to sit with his discomfort,

though, because I am not going to admit to a bad motive when it doesn't

exist. I usually just tell him that and then walk away. I think he ends up

believing me after he thinks about it. Maybe not.

Sandy

[Guest guest]

> My husband with AS doesn't give many

> apologies, but when he does I believe him. I don't think he would fake an

> apology, no matter how his voice sounds or what his expression looks like.

> In our case, he has a harder time believing me if I don't do it a certain

> way.

I smiled when I read this, Sandy. It's just like an Aspie to expect the

apology to be done a " certain way " , isn't it? Some of us can be quite

rigid about certain things, especially those things that mean a lot to

us.

Best,

~CJ

[Guest guest]

This goes back to the saying so many have said about people with autism. " When

you have met one person with autism, you have met one and only one person with

autism. " This is why we are all different, and apologies are no less different.

I am very quick to apologize, when I sense I have done something wrong. Also, I

have been very quick to apologize when I thought I did something wrong but I

didn't after someone explained to me it wasn't my fault. I have apologized more

times probably than I would like to believe I did.

In my view, it's better to overapologize and know I am on the same page with

others - than it is to underapologize and realize someone's holding a grudge

against me. I believe in keeping things in harmony as much as possible. I

don't hold grudges against people for very long against people (if I do), and

believe that causes unneeded stress in a person's life.

You wrote, " In our case, he has a harder time believing me if I don't do it a

certain way. He usually thinks there are ulterior motives involved. And

sometimes he is right. Sometimes he really figures me out before I have even

figure myself out. He wants me to be so pure with him that it forces me to

examine all of my motives. I cannot be as pure as he would like, but I do think

it has been good for me. "

I was that way growing up... finding it difficult when people wouldn't do things

a certain way. As I evolved into the person I am today, I realize that nothing

is always going to be perfect. Perhaps, some people have ulterior motives if

something is not done a certain way. After all, that is why laws, regulations,

and the like exist in that regard. To keep people in check.

Given that, no one can be so pure all the time. As an Aspie, I can assure

everyone here that I have told at least a few " white lies " in my life (the crowd

gasps, thinking what just became of me). And yes, I have had ulterior motives

that haven't been the purest (the crowd gasps, even louder now). Yes, I have

been selfish in my own way, admittedly, a time or two just this year *alone*.

When it comes to finances, I am very pure, however. After all, I so dislike

Wall Street bankers for the amounts of money they have made during the

recessions of this short century off of the " common person. " And, being in

charge of finances for one board, you can betcha I am kept in check quite well.

As an accounting major, I practice transparency in my financial dealings with

others. Won't be any Enron/Arthur fiascos in my life.

Fortunately, as I have gotten older, transparency moved over to relationships.

For over the past 15 months, I have been blessed with my " significant other. "

And, I am thankful for aspires.

>

> I like the discussion about apologies. My husband with AS doesn't give many

> apologies, but when he does I believe him. I don't think he would fake an

> apology, no matter how his voice sounds or what his expression looks like.

> In our case, he has a harder time believing me if I don't do it a certain

> way. He usually thinks there are ulterior motives involved. And sometimes

> he is right. Sometimes he really figures me out before I have even figured

> myself out. He wants me to be so pure with him that it forces me to examine

> all of my motives. I cannot be as pure as he would like, but I do think it

> has been good for me. Sometimes he just has to sit with his discomfort,

> though, because I am not going to admit to a bad motive when it doesn't

> exist. I usually just tell him that and then walk away. I think he ends up

> believing me after he thinks about it. Maybe not.

>

> Sandy

>

[Guest guest]

> I am very quick to apologize, when I sense I have done something wrong. Also,

I have been very quick to apologize when I thought I did something wrong but I

didn't after someone explained to me it wasn't my fault. I have apologized more

times probably than I would like to believe I did.

>

> In my view, it's better to overapologize and know I am on the same page with

others - than it is to underapologize and realize someone's holding a grudge

against me. I believe in keeping things in harmony as much as possible. I

don't hold grudges against people for very long against people (if I do), and

believe that causes unneeded stress in a person's life.

I think this is a good outlook to have, . Another good reason to

apologize is when unintentionally hurting someone else's feelings. You

may not have done anything wrong, but sometimes it's still good to

apologize anyway for having contributed to their pain.

That being said, I draw the line at people who usually demonstrate

personal responsibility and hold themselves accountable for their own

emotions, instead of blaming other people for making them feel bad. The

latter group thrives on manipulation, playing the victim, and are just a

pain in the butt (IMO). I will not reward their behavior, as it only

encourages more of the same. Perhaps I have spent too much time around

professional dog trainers... I dunno.

> Given that, no one can be so pure all the time. As an Aspie, I can assure

everyone here that I have told at least a few " white lies " in my life (the crowd

gasps, thinking what just became of me). And yes, I have had ulterior motives

that haven't been the purest (the crowd gasps, even louder now). Yes, I have

been selfish in my own way, admittedly, a time or two just this year *alone*.

I really hope that the crowd doesn't gasp too much, as that would be

quite naive of them.

You are human, doing what humans sometimes do when promoting their own

interests. That you are aware of this behavior places you head and

shoulders above most of the population, IMO.

Best,

~CJ