Re: Tests find no elevated mold levels

[Guest guest]

>

> STARPOINT SCHOOLS

> Tests find no elevated mold levels

>

>

> He did say, " We have determined that the mold content in the air

> outside the buildings is greater than the air inside them. . . .

This one line seems to be used over and over again across this country.

My school said this, my son's school next door said the exact words,

and other teachers in other states have told me that their districts

have used and pointed to this one line to PROVE that there couldn't

possibly be a mold problem. Can someone with air sampling/testing

experience please speak to this for all the other teachers/parents in

this nation who are going to be persuaded to believe that this line

frees districts from any accountability.

[Guest guest]

My school also said the same thing.It must be a standard line they ALL use.

It's the same story over and over. I did email the reporter and told him to

do some research and educate the public. They need to know the facts.

Sue

STARPOINT SCHOOLS

> Tests find no elevated mold levels

>

>

> He did say, " We have determined that the mold content in the air

> outside the buildings is greater than the air inside them. . . .

This one line seems to be used over and over again across this country.

My school said this, my son's school next door said the exact words,

and other teachers in other states have told me that their districts

have used and pointed to this one line to PROVE that there couldn't

possibly be a mold problem. Can someone with air sampling/testing

experience please speak to this for all the other teachers/parents in

this nation who are going to be persuaded to believe that this line

frees districts from any accountability.

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

[Guest guest]

The problem when they do that is that indoor air usually has fewer

spores (in raw count) than outside. What matters is WHAT KIND OF

SPORES THEY ARE. If the ratios of the different kinds of spores

indoors is the same as outside.. then the spores indoors are from

outside..

But of the ratio of the different kinds of spores inside is diferent

and toxinogenic spores are present in higher RATIO than they are

outside, then there is reason for concern. Also, in a situation where

there has been water incursion, but an area has dried out, of course

there will not be active sporulation, so its expected that you wont

see spores, but there easily could be dried out mold inside the walls

making people sick. Thats very common. Dried out stachybotrys inside

of walls can make people sick for years and you wont see spores.

[Guest guest]

Elevated levels for whom??? Mice?

ssr3351@... wrote:

My school also said the same thing.It must be a standard line they ALL use.

It's the same story over and over. I did email the reporter and told him to

do some research and educate the public. They need to know the facts.

Sue

STARPOINT SCHOOLS

> Tests find no elevated mold levels

>

>

> He did say, " We have determined that the mold content in the air

> outside the buildings is greater than the air inside them. . . .

This one line seems to be used over and over again across this country.

My school said this, my son's school next door said the exact words,

and other teachers in other states have told me that their districts

have used and pointed to this one line to PROVE that there couldn't

possibly be a mold problem. Can someone with air sampling/testing

experience please speak to this for all the other teachers/parents in

this nation who are going to be persuaded to believe that this line

frees districts from any accountability.

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

[Guest guest]

Is there one particular area or room that makes more people sick? See

if you can get them to concentrate on that.

All I know is I'm so sensitive to all molds that I can smell it on

people's clothes outdoors. I don't know if any test would be able to

prove those clothes I smell are moldy. But my nose...knows.

[Guest guest]

Do not buy into the statement. What is not said is that certain species of

molds are not elevated over the same species outdoors. This is why one must do

PCR DNA mold analysis to speciate on both indoor and outdoor bulk and/or air

samples. Certain species of Aspergillus, Penicillium, Stachybotrys chartarum

and a couple other signal molds are always elevated indoors vs outdoors. The

other thing is that outdoor concentrations vary according to the time of day as

well as from day to day. Indoor concentrations of the signal molds stay

relatively constant. For example, I am involved in case where there is a public

health that reports mold spore concentrations in the air on a day to day basis.

Some days the Aspergillus and Penicillium counts outdoors are zero other days

they might be elevated to 100 to 300 spores per cu. meter. All of this

information is covered in the book edited by D. Strauss, Ph.D. " Sick Building

Syndrome, " other papers written by Dr. Strauss, as well as references cited in

articles on the subject. Furthemore, whomever did the testing and reporting has

ignored the complexity of damp indoor spaces. Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.

[Guest guest]

>

> Do not buy into the statement.

Teachers, and parents whose kids are in sick schools do not buy this

rhetoric on district air samplings. We know that those companies hired

by districts to do the testing do indeed ignore the complexity of damp

sick buildings but we need some user friendly statements to give to

teachers and parents to use when districts state that " no one " is sick

from mold in their buildings according to these bogus air samplings

with this one line emphasized over and over throughout the U.S.

[Guest guest]

The school officials to whome you are referring probably are not willing to look

at the truth of the matter. There is a great deal of reserach regarding

exposure of school children and asthma. The school is charged with the health

and welfare of its students. If it were me and my children in encapsulated in a

moldy school, I would seek legal assistance. As I said, if they have not done

mold species, then they are blowing rhetoric. Even the company that did the

testing knows better. Ask them to show you where they are obtaining the

information regarding indoor vs outdoor concentrations and what government

and/or medical organization has set such a standard. Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.

Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

[Guest guest]

I agree fully with Dr Thrasher. I'd also add to not limit your

concerns to just mold. When there is dampness there ARE other

exposures, especially bacteria. Refer to the Inst of Medicine's

study Damp Indoor Spaces and Health. A Report Brief can be

downloaded from

http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3793/4703/20223/25863.aspx

Individual pages can be read for free at

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309091934

Refer to published professional and industry documents such as

those on www.epa.gov/iaq/molds or the ANSI-IICRC S500

Standard and Reference Guide for Professional Water Damage

Restoration and the companion S520 for mold remediation. S520

has an excellent chapter on health effects.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> The school officials to whome you are referring probably are not willing to

look at the truth of the matter. There is a great deal of reserach regarding

exposure of school children and asthma. The school is charged with the health

and welfare of its students. If it were me and my children in encapsulated in a

moldy school, I would seek legal assistance. As I said, if they have not done

mold species, then they are blowing rhetoric. Even the company that did the

testing knows better. Ask them to show you where they are obtaining the

information regarding indoor vs outdoor concentrations and what government

and/or medical organization has set such a standard. Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.

>

> Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.

> Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

-

-- In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...>

wrote:

Unfortunately, Starpoint Central School Superintendent-

Whelan is probably not seeing this posted information. Is it okay

to send him the links listed below? Starpoint Central School

District has a website with a link to contact them.

> I agree fully with Dr Thrasher. I'd also add to not limit your

> concerns to just mold. When there is dampness there ARE other

> exposures, especially bacteria. Refer to the Inst of Medicine's

> study Damp Indoor Spaces and Health. A Report Brief can be

> downloaded from

> http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3793/4703/20223/25863.aspx

> Individual pages can be read for free at

> http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309091934

>

> Refer to published professional and industry documents such as

> those on www.epa.gov/iaq/molds or the ANSI-IICRC S500

> Standard and Reference Guide for Professional Water Damage

> Restoration and the companion S520 for mold remediation. S520

> has an excellent chapter on health effects.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

>

[Guest guest]

The biggest error that school districts ALWAYS seem to be making is this

misunderstanding of how spore tests work.

The " false negative fallacy " .

[Guest guest]

I have obtained the report of the Phase I mold testing at Starpoint.

The report does not show a standard for mold. What it reflects is

guidelines for mold.

What concerned me was the outdoor sample. All samples were taken on

January 9, 2008, as per the report. On that date, there was a wind

storm that produced approx. 30 mph winds with expected gusts of 50

mph. The outdoor sample was 199 spores. The day prior had record

setting warm temperatures that plummeted overnight as a severe wind

and rain storm approached.

The superintendent stated that Phase II of the mold testing for the

middle school had not yet begun. Yet the Phase I mold report showed

a sample was taken from the boy's locker room - pool area.

The pool is in the middle school, unless it was recently moved.

There are some very educated people in this group and I think that

this information will intrigue you and help to answer your questions.

The mold testing was minor and the intent, in my opinion, was to

discourage any more questions on the mold.

I have obtained several reports on the mold and bacteria growing in

the school via the NYS Freedom of Information Law. The testing

reports are from 1997 and 2005.

Do not expect this to ever be remediated. In order to do so, the

school must first address the construction and architectural issues

that lead to the water intrusion in the buildings and, no one, to

date, has addressed that major issue.

> Unfortunately, Starpoint Central School Superintendent-

> Whelan is probably not seeing this posted information. Is it okay

> to send him the links listed below? Starpoint Central School

> District has a website with a link to contact them.

>

>

> > I agree fully with Dr Thrasher. I'd also add to not limit your

> > concerns to just mold. When there is dampness there ARE other

> > exposures, especially bacteria. Refer to the Inst of Medicine's

> > study Damp Indoor Spaces and Health. A Report Brief can be

> > downloaded from

> > http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3793/4703/20223/25863.aspx

> > Individual pages can be read for free at

> > http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309091934

> >

> > Refer to published professional and industry documents such as

> > those on www.epa.gov/iaq/molds or the ANSI-IICRC S500

> > Standard and Reference Guide for Professional Water Damage

> > Restoration and the companion S520 for mold remediation. S520

> > has an excellent chapter on health effects.

> >

> > Carl Grimes

> > Healthy Habitats LLC

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

In order to know what to say to your school district, you need to learn

to research and ask questions.

First of all, if you a hire a company to do testing, the company will

only test what you approve.

Second, check the credentials of everyone that works at the testing

company. Also, check out their clientele. The conflicts of interest

are amazing.

Third, make sure that you obtain the entire report. One page that is

always missing is the Chain of Custody for Samples.

Fourth, read the report, then read it again. Write down all your

concerns about the report. Put it down and go back to it a few hours

later and read it again. Then have someone else read it and have them

note their concerns. It is amazing how much information can be missed

the first go round.

Fifth, check out the dates when testing occurred. Most mold testing is

scheduled during some type of weather event to cause a change in the

results that is more beneficial to the company that is trying to get

out of a sticky mold situation.

If you really want to know that your questions are honestly answered,

then ask a question that you already have the answer to. If you get a

different answer, then you know who not to question.

The standard statement is embedded through training. To get ahead of

the game their playing, follow the steps above and reacquaint yourself

with a tape recorder.

The truth stays the same. Lying tends to change.

> >

> > Do not buy into the statement.

>

> Teachers, and parents whose kids are in sick schools do not buy this

> rhetoric on district air samplings. We know that those companies hired

> by districts to do the testing do indeed ignore the complexity of damp

> sick buildings but we need some user friendly statements to give to

> teachers and parents to use when districts state that " no one " is sick

> from mold in their buildings according to these bogus air samplings

> with this one line emphasized over and over throughout the U.S.

>

[Guest guest]

For information about molds go to _www.biotoxininfo.com_

(http://www.biotoxininfo.com) , _www.schoolmoldheop.org_

(http://www.schoolmoldheop.org) , use

the excellent sources here in our group and you can contact the EPA for a free

booklet titled MOLD REMEDIATION in SCHOOLS & COMMERCIAL

BUILDINGS.1-800-438-4318. They always try to compare the outside to the inside

and the only

thing that matter is what is inside!! My school tested very late in the

afternoon, kids where gone, windows were all open and only air tested a few

rooms.Almost dark when they looked around outside the building. Said

everything was

fine and levels outside were higher.

I have obtained the report of the Phase I mold testing at Starpoint.

The report does not show a standard for mold. What it reflects is

guidelines for mold.

What concerned me was the outdoor sample. All samples were taken on

January 9, 2008, as per the report. On that date, there was a wind

storm that produced approx. 30 mph winds with expected gusts of 50

mph. The outdoor sample was 199 spores. The day prior had record

setting warm temperatures that plummeted overnight as a severe wind

and rain storm approached.

The superintendent stated that Phase II of the mold testing for the

middle school had not yet begun. Yet the Phase I mold report showed

a sample was taken from the boy's locker room - pool area.

The pool is in the middle school, unless it was recently moved.

There are some very educated people in this group and I think that

this information will intrigue you and help to answer your questions.

The mold testing was minor and the intent, in my opinion, was to

discourage any more questions on the mold.

I have obtained several reports on the mold and bacteria growing in

the school via the NYS Freedom of Information Law. The testing

reports are from 1997 and 2005.

Do not expect this to ever be remediated. In order to do so, the

school must first address the construction and architectural issues

that lead to the water intrusion in the buildings and, no one, to

date, has addressed that major issue.

**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.

(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002\

5

48)

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the links. Correction to the schoolmold link, it

should be www.schoolmoldhelp.org

Sue Brinchman is the founder of schoolmoldhelp and has been

instrumental in connecting myself and others who are advocating for

all who are exposed to mold in either their home, place of employment

or their school.

There is also the nationally acclaimed Healthy Schools Network,

started by Barnett. A terrific resource.

Canada has taken a huge leap into the toxic mold arena, but the US is

lagging behind. Enough with mold guidelines, set by lab after lab.

Mold is a threat to the health of every human being and the CDC and

EPA need to get with the program and start addressing the mold and

bacteria plaguing our nation. Insurance companies should not be

allowed to take our money and then refuse treatment, especially when

a child's life hangs in the balance.

More and more diseases are being linked to mold and bacteria exposure

in damp and wet environments. Schools are in the forefront and all

we are hearing is how " the outdoor mold levels are higher than the

indoor levels " .

We need to address more than the energy efficient building. How

about shotty construction practices, poor maintenance, immediate

remediation for water damaged buildings, proper remediation for mold

and bacteria, etc.

It is great to have guidelines if people would actually follow them,

but they don't.

We need more message boards, like this one, to help in bringing the

problems to light and getting action.

>

>

> For information about molds go to _www.biotoxininfo.com_

> (http://www.biotoxininfo.com) , _www.schoolmoldheop.org_

(http://www.schoolmoldheop.org) , use

> the excellent sources here in our group and you can contact the

EPA for a free

> booklet titled MOLD REMEDIATION in SCHOOLS & COMMERCIAL

> BUILDINGS.1-800-438-4318. They always try to compare the outside to

the inside and the only

> thing that matter is what is inside!! My school tested very late

in the

> afternoon, kids where gone, windows were all open and only air

tested a few

> rooms.Almost dark when they looked around outside the building.

Said everything was

> fine and levels outside were higher.

>

>

>

>

> I have obtained the report of the Phase I mold testing at

Starpoint.

> The report does not show a standard for mold. What it reflects is

> guidelines for mold.

>

> What concerned me was the outdoor sample. All samples were taken

on

> January 9, 2008, as per the report. On that date, there was a wind

> storm that produced approx. 30 mph winds with expected gusts of 50

> mph. The outdoor sample was 199 spores. The day prior had record

> setting warm temperatures that plummeted overnight as a severe

wind

> and rain storm approached.

>

> The superintendent stated that Phase II of the mold testing for

the

> middle school had not yet begun. Yet the Phase I mold report

showed

> a sample was taken from the boy's locker room - pool area.

>

> The pool is in the middle school, unless it was recently moved.

>

> There are some very educated people in this group and I think that

> this information will intrigue you and help to answer your

questions.

>

> The mold testing was minor and the intent, in my opinion, was to

> discourage any more questions on the mold.

>

> I have obtained several reports on the mold and bacteria growing

in

> the school via the NYS Freedom of Information Law. The testing

> reports are from 1997 and 2005.

>

> Do not expect this to ever be remediated. In order to do so, the

> school must first address the construction and architectural

issues

> that lead to the water intrusion in the buildings and, no one, to

> date, has addressed that major issue.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL

Music.

> (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?

NCID=aolcmp003000000025

> 48)

>

>

>