Guest guest Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 sending them some csm is a good idea salzberglver3 <salzberglver3@...> wrote: Interesting service dogs finding mold behind walls. This company offered its mold dog services to school districts to help find mold problems, and of course they weren't interested. They don't WANT to know what is behind their walls making their teachers and students react. CLick on link below... http://mold-dog.com/video/see_a_dog_in_action.asx I feel bad for these dogs though. Maybe we should send some CSM to these owners to mix in the dogs' water each day! Or some Nizoral antifungal spray! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 The concerns about using dogs to find mold have been discussed here for quite some time. I was skeptical of using them and refused to cooperate with a colleague of mine for some time. That changed last year when I was called into a job where the mold dogs had already been used. I had, and continue to have, two main concerns: 1. ACCURACY: The accuracy of dogs finding mold depends on initial training, daily training, and the relationship between the dog and his human master. Also, I've been told by the group that certifies mold dogs that the dogs detect mold by their sense of smell of the MOVCs which mold generates. The " library " of mold smells for training is somewhat limited much as the " library " of identifiable mold for lab PCR analysis is limited. That means dogs are most likely to find some of actively growing molds and less likely to find any dormant or dead mold. However, a collegue in Colorado has had a mold dog for nearly 2 years and I've seen it find mold that won't grow on culturable samples but are detectable by microscopy (indicating dead mold). For the record, I've also seen it miss mold and indicate mold that wasn't otherwise detectable. (Which is quite possible considering the multitude of ways lab sampling for mold can produce negative results when mold is clearly detectable by other means). I consider mold dogs another fallable tool in the tool box of detecting mold, none of which is definitive by itself and all of which needs a context for guiding the interpretation. (Inspect first to determine what is happening, it may not be mold or only mold. Then perhaps take samples - but only as a last resort or to answer a specific legal or medical question). Mere presence of mold on a culture plate does not necessarily mean there is a problem. If you don't find mold on a plate something is wrong with the collection method. 2. SAFETY: My friend's dog has never been sickened or otherwise affected by his exposure to mold or anything else in water damaged buildings. When I asked how that is possible he said to watch them closely, that dogs don't smell by breathing deeply into their lungs like people do. I watched his dog gently sniff in and then strongly snort out. This keeps exposures extremely short and limited to the nose nerves. I still suspect a possibility of nerve damage with loss of smelling ability long term but have as yet to hear of it. But you can bet that if the dogs were getting sick or losing their ability the information would spread like wildfire! Trained and certified dogs cost $20,000+ and upkeep increases that. Their owners would be loudly protesting and suing! Their cost is beyond the total cost of all other inspection equipment combined, including the lower end Infrared Cameras. (Another reason not to spend the money on mold dogs). I'm somewhat less concerned about harm to the dogs now, but still don't trust their accuracy any more than I trust accuracy of the more traditional methods of mold sampling. I still consider developing a meaninful context by inspection, building use, history of moisture, plus the experience of the human occupants the best measuring device. I use it for determining when there is a problem and for verifying when a problem is solved. Sampling can still be important but is limited to specific needs such as to answer a specific legal or medical question. Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC ----- > Interesting service dogs finding mold behind walls. This company > offered its mold dog services to school districts to help find mold > problems, and of course they weren't interested. They don't WANT to > know what is behind their walls making their teachers and students react. > CLick on link below... > > http://mold-dog.com/video/see_a_dog_in_action.asx > > I feel bad for these dogs though. Maybe we should send some CSM to > these owners to mix in the dogs' water each day! Or some Nizoral > antifungal spray! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 I think that the same mechanisms that destroy rat or human olfactory neurons would apply to dogs but also, dogs, like humans, would probably be able to compensate to some extent for it until they reached a crisis point, at which they suddenly might lose the ability to smell, maybe temporarily, maybe permanently. The same things that help humans would probably help dogs.. yes, I'd suspect that cholestyramine would help (def. would need to work with his/her vet on that!) Powerful antioxidants like n-acetylcysteine which tend to protect cells against apoptopsis in extreme oxidative stress might help, in the same way they help protect the sense of hearing against impulse noise, for example. I bet nasal irrigation in some manner would also help although I doubt if a dog would put up with it being done to him/her in the traditional manners! Definitely not! Perhaps one of those nebulizing fountain things (mist generator) could be rigged up to fit around the dogs nose and immediately after work it could be put on and turned on which would have the effect of gently moisturizing the sinuses with a fine saline mist. (Sort of like a facial) A mold dog would probably learn to welcome this as it would be soothing and would counteract the extreme dehydration that mold sometimes causes. Working dogs enjoy working and I think they very much do understand that their work is important and helps their people. (who they see as part of their 'pack " ) A good example are the dogs that help rescue people after earthquakes. They *very* much get happy when they find someone who is still alive and sad when they find someone too late. Human history and dog history are intertwined over milennia.. On Feb 2, 2008 11:25 PM, Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...> wrote: > > > > > > > The concerns about using dogs to find mold have been > discussed here for quite some time. > > I was skeptical of using them and refused to cooperate with a > colleague of mine for some time. That changed last year when I > was called into a job where the mold dogs had already been > used. I had, and continue to have, two main concerns: > > 1. ACCURACY: The accuracy of dogs finding mold depends on > initial training, daily training, and the relationship between the dog > and his human master. Also, I've been told by the group that > certifies mold dogs that the dogs detect mold by their sense of > smell of the MOVCs which mold generates. The " library " of mold > smells for training is somewhat limited much as the " library " of > identifiable mold for lab PCR analysis is limited. That means dogs > are most likely to find some of actively growing molds and less > likely to find any dormant or dead mold. > > However, a collegue in Colorado has had a mold dog for nearly 2 > years and I've seen it find mold that won't grow on culturable > samples but are detectable by microscopy (indicating dead mold). > For the record, I've also seen it miss mold and indicate mold that > wasn't otherwise detectable. (Which is quite possible considering > the multitude of ways lab sampling for mold can produce negative > results when mold is clearly detectable by other means). > > I consider mold dogs another fallable tool in the tool box > of detecting mold, none of which is definitive by itself and > all of which needs a context for guiding the interpretation. > (Inspect first to determine what is happening, it may not > be mold or only mold. Then perhaps take samples - but > only as a last resort or to answer a specific legal or > medical question). Mere presence of mold on a culture > plate does not necessarily mean there is a problem. If you > don't find mold on a plate something is wrong with the > collection method. > > 2. SAFETY: My friend's dog has never been sickened or > otherwise affected by his exposure to mold or anything else in > water damaged buildings. When I asked how that is possible he > said to watch them closely, that dogs don't smell by breathing > deeply into their lungs like people do. I watched his dog gently > sniff in and then strongly snort out. This keeps exposures > extremely short and limited to the nose nerves. I still suspect a > possibility of nerve damage with loss of smelling ability long term > but have as yet to hear of it. > > But you can bet that if the dogs were getting sick or losing > their ability the information would spread like wildfire! > Trained and certified dogs cost $20,000+ and upkeep > increases that. Their owners would be loudly protesting > and suing! Their cost is beyond the total cost of all other > inspection equipment combined, including the lower end > Infrared Cameras. (Another reason not to spend the > money on mold dogs). > > I'm somewhat less concerned about harm to the dogs now, but > still don't trust their accuracy any more than I trust accuracy of the > more traditional methods of mold sampling. I still consider > developing a meaninful context by inspection, building use, > history of moisture, plus the experience of the human occupants > the best measuring device. I use it for determining when there is > a problem and for verifying when a problem is solved. Sampling > can still be important but is limited to specific needs such as to > answer a specific legal or medical question. > > Carl Grimes > Healthy Habitats LLC > > ----- > > > Interesting service dogs finding mold behind walls. This company > > offered its mold dog services to school districts to help find mold > > problems, and of course they weren't interested. They don't WANT to > > know what is behind their walls making their teachers and students react. > > CLick on link below... > > > > http://mold-dog.com/video/see_a_dog_in_action.asx > > > > I feel bad for these dogs though. Maybe we should send some CSM to > > these owners to mix in the dogs' water each day! Or some Nizoral > > antifungal spray! > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 If they alterated with dogs so dog would have time to recuperate from each mold exposure, would help. Animal rights group could press for this if this turns out to be a problem. Something if I was in better health would like to work on, protection of animals. I think the laws of abuse to animals should be the same as humans. --- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote: > > I think that the same mechanisms that destroy rat or human olfactory > neurons would apply to dogs but also, dogs, > like humans, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 According to the American Veterinary Medical Association news release, a new report that was published in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association shows that toxic mold can be a hazard to your pets health. The report came after a veterinary specialist, Mader in Marathon, Florida, had been performing a dental procedure on two cats. While performing the procedure the dentist noticed that there had been frothy blood in the tubes that were used to supply the anesthesia to the animals. When the vet noticed this, he immediately stopped the procedure he was performing. Both animals however died, one the next day and the other around two weeks later. After the cats had been deceased, blood was collected and tested. When the tests came back, the test showed levels of the toxin produced by Stachybotrys chartarum, which is also known as " toxic black mold " . When exposed to the mold, it can cause respiratory problems, pulmonary hemorrhage and death in people. The symptoms have never been associated with animals until now. The two cats that died were healthy, indoor cats. Before they received the dental procedure, both cats were tested and showed no signs of any illness. It is known that both of the cats had lived in homes that had received water damage from a hurricane back in 2005. Once Mader found out that the test came back with the results of the toxin in them, he urged the owners of the animals to check their house for mold. According to Mader the two both had severe mold contamination in their walls. This then lead to the weakening of the animals capillaries in the lungs which then burst and then bled. Both of the animals died from complication which came from a pulmonary hemorrhage. Mader hopes that with these findings that animal owners who have been affected by flood waters, hurricanes or anything else that will cause mold to grow inside the area where the animals are more aware of the dangers that black mold can cause. Mader is urging anyone with these circumstances to check their homes for any signs of mold and have it removed and taken care of immediately. Toxic mold affects people more so than animals and the symptoms can range from asthma, headaches, dizziness, fatigue, sore throat, bleeding in the lungs, and many more. To learn about the affects of toxic black mold and how you can get rid of it from your home, please visit " What is Toxic Mold Anyway " . The American Veterinary Medical Association has more than 75,000 veterinarians that are dedicated to advancing the science of animal, human and public health. To learn more about the AVMA, please visit their website at http://www.avma.org/ > > > > If they alterated with dogs so dog would have time to recuperate from > > each mold exposure, would help. Animal rights group could press for > > this if this turns out to be a problem. Something if I was in better > > health would like to work on, protection of animals. I think the laws > > of abuse to animals should be the same as humans. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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