Re: Inquiry into 'I want to die'

[Guest guest]

Dear Jon,

thank you for your work.

Am 14.01.2008 um 13:45 schrieb Jon Willis:

> OK, so I'm feeling pretty bad today - but want to get to the bottom of

> this.

>

> The inquiry is below - so one of the beliefs I notice coming out of it

> is " I'd be more at peace if I was dead " - I must admit I'm a bit

> scared to go further with this line of inquiry - it's as if I feel

> like my fear of death is what stops me going further.

>

> I know I can't absolutely know that that is true - and I don't feel

> like I can take the chance that it is either!

so... what is the worst that could happen if you did?

> Anyway, here's the inquiry - thoughts, feedback appreciated. Just

> having this group as a place to share is an absolute gift.

>

> With love and thanks,

>

> Jon

> ---------------------

>

>

> Thought/ Belief: I want to die

>

> Is that true? Yes

Oh, really?

What is your proof?

What exactly is it you are doing to get there?

How do I know I want to walk?

My feet are moving!

How do I know I want to sit?

I am sitting on something.

The nightmare is: To believe I want to sit, and to believe that I can't.

I am doing what I am supposed to do: stand. My legs are hurting? So

what? I still want to stand.

But only because that's what I am doing. That is reality.

> Can you absolutely know that it's true?

> Can you absolutely know that you'd be happier if you got what you

> want?

> What's the reality?

> I feel like I'd be more at peace – nothing to worry about ever again.

Yeah. You can have that without dying.

What is it you do worry about?

> The reality is I'm not dying in this moment.

So you got that clear.

> How do I react?

> I feel scared, tense, angry, hopeless.

>

> I cry a lot – I feel like anything will set me off, tip me over the

> edge.

>

> I don't trust myself to leave the bedroom, to even go and see my

> mother downstairs.

>

> I hide away – I just hope that everything ends.

Well, this is not what dying feels like. You are describing life.

> Associated thoughts are:

>

> No-one loves me

> My life is over

> I can't get out of the situation I'm in

> She shouldn't have left me

> They are angry with me

>

> Peace or stress? Definitely stress.

>

> A reason to drop this thought? Yes, I would feel more at peace.

>

> Who am I without this thought?

>

> I don't know – find it hard top picture – empty, clueless, thrashing

> about – nothing makes sense anymore. Definitely tired.

Picture yourself, doing what you are doing right now. Look at you.

That's who you are without the thought. Meet yourself.

> Without this thought I'd give up trying to anything. I'd go make a

> cup of tea, say hello to my mother maybe.

like, you'd get to live?

> Turnarounds:

>

> I don't want to die

Obviously: you are living, after all.

> Not right now I don't – I can't particularly see a reason for living,

The good news is: you don't seem to need one.

> but I'm not physically trying to kill myself right now.

> I want to live

> Even though this doesn't feel true in an active sense, it must be

> truer right now – I'd rather be doing this inquiry than dying.

Yes.

> My thinking wants to die

> This is much truer – my thinking wants a rest, wants some peace and

> quiet.

I want my thoughts about death to die.

How does that feel for you?

Love,

[Guest guest]

Well, here's some feedback to your introduction.

If you're dead, you will have no means to change your feelings ever again,

this might not be necessary, in any case, as long as you're alive,

you have all means to change them.

Völz wrote:

Dear Jon,

thank you for your work.

Am 14.01.2008 um 13:45 schrieb Jon Willis:

> OK, so I'm feeling pretty bad today - but want to get to the bottom of

> this.

>

> The inquiry is below - so one of the beliefs I notice coming out of it

> is " I'd be more at peace if I was dead " - I must admit I'm a bit

> scared to go further with this line of inquiry - it's as if I feel

> like my fear of death is what stops me going further.

>

> I know I can't absolutely know that that is true - and I don't feel

> like I can take the chance that it is either!

so... what is the worst that could happen if you did?

> Anyway, here's the inquiry - thoughts, feedback appreciated. Just

> having this group as a place to share is an absolute gift.

>

> With love and thanks,

>

> Jon

> ---------------------

>

>

> Thought/ Belief: I want to die

>

> Is that true? Yes

Oh, really?

What is your proof?

What exactly is it you are doing to get there?

How do I know I want to walk?

My feet are moving!

How do I know I want to sit?

I am sitting on something.

The nightmare is: To believe I want to sit, and to believe that I can't.

I am doing what I am supposed to do: stand. My legs are hurting? So

what? I still want to stand.

But only because that's what I am doing. That is reality.

> Can you absolutely know that it's true?

> Can you absolutely know that you'd be happier if you got what you

> want?

> What's the reality?

> I feel like I'd be more at peace – nothing to worry about ever again.

Yeah. You can have that without dying.

What is it you do worry about?

> The reality is I'm not dying in this moment.

So you got that clear.

> How do I react?

> I feel scared, tense, angry, hopeless.

>

> I cry a lot – I feel like anything will set me off, tip me over the

> edge.

>

> I don't trust myself to leave the bedroom, to even go and see my

> mother downstairs.

>

> I hide away – I just hope that everything ends.

Well, this is not what dying feels like. You are describing life.

> Associated thoughts are:

>

> No-one loves me

> My life is over

> I can't get out of the situation I'm in

> She shouldn't have left me

> They are angry with me

>

> Peace or stress? Definitely stress.

>

> A reason to drop this thought? Yes, I would feel more at peace.

>

> Who am I without this thought?

>

> I don't know – find it hard top picture – empty, clueless, thrashing

> about – nothing makes sense anymore. Definitely tired.

Picture yourself, doing what you are doing right now. Look at you.

That's who you are without the thought. Meet yourself.

> Without this thought I'd give up trying to anything. I'd go make a

> cup of tea, say hello to my mother maybe.

like, you'd get to live?

> Turnarounds:

>

> I don't want to die

Obviously: you are living, after all.

> Not right now I don't – I can't particularly see a reason for living,

The good news is: you don't seem to need one.

> but I'm not physically trying to kill myself right now.

> I want to live

> Even though this doesn't feel true in an active sense, it must be

> truer right now – I'd rather be doing this inquiry than dying.

Yes.

> My thinking wants to die

> This is much truer – my thinking wants a rest, wants some peace and

> quiet.

I want my thoughts about death to die.

How does that feel for you?

Love,

[Guest guest]

As I am reading through your entire message now,

it occures to me that I have this longing for death also,

ever since the day I was born.

It's a longing for simpler days,

the joy to finally rest in peace,

forever.

If there weren't just all these wicked turnarounds ....

Forever may mean never.

What if death continues back at the beginning.

What of you get reborn under the exact same circumstances.

Would you change something?

Nehti

Jon Willis wrote:

OK, so I'm feeling pretty bad today - but want to get to the bottom of

this.

The inquiry is below - so one of the beliefs I notice coming out of it

is " I'd be more at peace if I was dead " - I must admit I'm a bit

scared to go further with this line of inquiry - it's as if I feel

like my fear of death is what stops me going further.

I know I can't absolutely know that that is true - and I don't feel

like I can take the chance that it is either!

Anyway, here's the inquiry - thoughts, feedback appreciated. Just

having this group as a place to share is an absolute gift.

With love and thanks,

Jon

---------------------

Thought/ Belief: I want to die

Is that true? Yes

Can you absolutely know that it's true?

Can you absolutely know that you'd be happier if you got what you want?

What's the reality?

I feel like I'd be more at peace – nothing to worry about ever again.

The reality is I'm not dying in this moment.

How do I react?

I feel scared, tense, angry, hopeless.

I cry a lot – I feel like anything will set me off, tip me over the edge.

I don't trust myself to leave the bedroom, to even go and see my

mother downstairs.

I hide away – I just hope that everything ends.

Associated thoughts are:

No-one loves me

My life is over

I can't get out of the situation I'm in

She shouldn't have left me

They are angry with me

Peace or stress? Definitely stress.

A reason to drop this thought? Yes, I would feel more at peace.

Who am I without this thought?

I don't know – find it hard top picture – empty, clueless, thrashing

about – nothing makes sense anymore. Definitely tired.

Without this thought I'd give up trying to anything. I'd go make a

cup of tea, say hello to my mother maybe.

Turnarounds:

I don't want to die

Not right now I don't – I can't particularly see a reason for living,

but I'm not physically trying to kill myself right now.

I want to live

Even though this doesn't feel true in an active sense, it must be

truer right now – I'd rather be doing this inquiry than dying.

My thinking wants to die

This is much truer – my thinking wants a rest, wants some peace and quiet.

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

i feel like i want to die also..

i have had it all my life..

since i was very young. to escape

TA I would not be more at peace if i died..

(you would have to come back and do it all over )

i should do the work with you sometime.. since we have similar

thoughts .. no new thoughts anyway.

please stay around for us to read your emails..

they are helpful..

My husband goes to a mens group first time hes

ever really talked to a bunch of men about personal things.

One of them committed suicide.last week . everyone in the group

feels badly. One said he wishes he could of done more

TWo of them had gotten in a fight in an earlier meeting

on what advise to give this guy.

our stories are really hard to deal with sometimes.

mona and giovanni in their forgiveness class said we feel wronged..

when we believe 2 things..

one something wrong happened,.. we assume things would of been

better some other way.

and two.. we believe someone else or we did something wrong.

and that can only happen when we assume they /we are the doer..

also heros villans and victims.. are all dependent on the belief in

victimhood.. once you realize there is no victim there are no

heros and no villans either..

well i know that is sketchy but thought it might be helpful to

someone..

best wishes, roslyn

-- In Loving-what-is , " Jon Willis " wrote:

>

> OK, so I'm feeling pretty bad today - but want to get to the bottom of

> this.

>

> The inquiry is below - so one of the beliefs I notice coming out of it

> is " I'd be more at peace if I was dead " - I must admit I'm a bit

> scared to go further with this line of inquiry - it's as if I feel

> like my fear of death is what stops me going further.

>

> I know I can't absolutely know that that is true - and I don't feel

> like I can take the chance that it is either!

>

> Anyway, here's the inquiry - thoughts, feedback appreciated. Just

> having this group as a place to share is an absolute gift.

>

> With love and thanks,

>

> Jon

> ---------------------

>

>

> Thought/ Belief: I want to die

>

> Is that true? Yes

>

> Can you absolutely know that it's true?

> Can you absolutely know that you'd be happier if you got what you want?

> What's the reality?

> I feel like I'd be more at peace – nothing to worry about ever again.

> The reality is I'm not dying in this moment.

>

> How do I react?

> I feel scared, tense, angry, hopeless.

>

> I cry a lot – I feel like anything will set me off, tip me over the

edge.

>

> I don't trust myself to leave the bedroom, to even go and see my

> mother downstairs.

>

> I hide away – I just hope that everything ends.

>

> Associated thoughts are:

>

> No-one loves me

> My life is over

> I can't get out of the situation I'm in

> She shouldn't have left me

> They are angry with me

>

> Peace or stress? Definitely stress.

>

> A reason to drop this thought? Yes, I would feel more at peace.

>

> Who am I without this thought?

>

> I don't know – find it hard top picture – empty, clueless, thrashing

> about – nothing makes sense anymore. Definitely tired.

>

> Without this thought I'd give up trying to anything. I'd go make a

> cup of tea, say hello to my mother maybe.

>

> Turnarounds:

>

> I don't want to die

> Not right now I don't – I can't particularly see a reason for living,

> but I'm not physically trying to kill myself right now.

>

> I want to live

> Even though this doesn't feel true in an active sense, it must be

> truer right now – I'd rather be doing this inquiry than dying.

>

> My thinking wants to die

> This is much truer – my thinking wants a rest, wants some peace and

quiet.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the responses to this thread so far.

I've read them all, but I must admit my mind feels a bit exhausted, so

not much feels like it is going in - it is good to get your insights

though and I may come back to them (who knows?).

Mind is feeling much easier at the moment - alive and not arguing with

that :-)

With love and thanks,

Jon