Cassandra and Apollo (Maxine Aston)

[Guest guest]

This is very interesting, and helpful. To be honest, I am going with an open

mind, being a probation officer (parole officer) by trade, I don't like taking

anything on face value, but I am interested.

Also, I am not NT/NS. I am dyslexic Bipolar, with a naff upbringing, and I have

done a lot of different therapy over the years as the extent of my problems has

unfolded. I did have breakdown, just over 3 yrs ago, which was a severe one.

During that time and at repeated times, Jon has withdrawn, quite understandably,

into his personal securities. Partly that's what helped me survive, but also,

it became apparently problematic as I got better, gradually, because he couldn't

adjust back out again, and with ensuing manic episodes on my part, which may or

may not have been partially triggered by trying to overcompensate for his

distance - who really knows?!

At best, I simply don't have the energy or wellbeing to compensate any more for

jon's shortcomings without anything coming back my way, to help me compensate

for my shortcomings too. It's not tit for tat thinking, it's the reciprocity

one hopes for in a relationship. I spent years thinking it was my fault that he

was distant, and that if I could just be better, have a better job, be a better

wife, be more loving, care more for him and make his life easier, that he would

warm to me in the way I wanted. Now I know how warped that sort of thinking is.

I also know that if I had a relationship with a non-aspie, I would have elicited

a response of some kind, by making such effort and clearly running myself ragged

until I broke down. Whether that response was good or bad, I don't know, but I

suspect that it would have been something.

So now, we are in couples counselling, he's making such an amazing effort to

listen to me, both of us are putting in place changes that support a healthier

and more mutually beneficial relationship, whilst respecting eachothers

strengths and weaknesses.

At a risk of being controversial, I do feel that Cassandra is possibly real,

although in my case, it's a complicated mix. I also think the approach to this

is critical. I am approaching it hoping to learn a bit more about how I can be

kinder to myself, have more realistic expectations of Jon, and also meet other

women who have been in relationships with AS men. However I would never dream

of blaming Jon entirely or at all for my personal emotional problems, however

being more aware of what the interplay is, is vital for me to keep our

relationship healthy, because I love and respect my hubby and want him to be

happy. I also don't want to sacrifice my own happiness.

I do have personal experience of the isolation a partner of an AS person can go

through. It's because often we're expecting a 'normal' relationship and we

don't get it, so we keep trying to fix it, because you don't immediately just

blame your partner for the relationship not being quite what you expected. Then

before you know what's happened, you have ploughed so much time and energy into

this relationship, you have lost a sense of self, and when you try to explain to

others why your relationship is a bit odd, people just seem to minimise it with

'oh, men are just like that', and sort of expect you to just deal with it. Then

you feel even more alone, because of it, and by that point, you aren't able to

talk to your partner about it and wouldn't know where to start anyway. Often

it's a logical step from that point to blame yourself.

That's my personal experience and it's how I felt, until I discovered AS, after

Jon had a big meltdown, just after we'd watched a programme about AS children

with Dogs, and it sort of clicked in my mind. For the first time I realised it

wasn't my fault, that it was something other than me! That was quite amazing.

However, that doesn't mean the fault is now on Jon. It means that crap happens

and is beyond our control (Like my Bipolar)and you can't always attribute fault

to anyone.

I love Jon to bits, and thank God, he loves me to bits too. Both of us are

willing to do battle with our respective issues and learn how to be kinder to

each other. It's very likely that his ways (in the unaware days) have affected

me deeply. It's also true that my behaviour has affected him deeply, and I have

encouraged him to attend carers meetings and learn about my condition, like I

have been learning about his. Would I have become full blown bipolar if I

hadn't had a relationship with Jon? Did I break down because of my childhood,

or because of my desire to please and reach out to Jon? We will never know, and

it's not important, because I love Jon, he loves me, and we're working it out in

a fair way.

Cassandra may be part of that mix, bit that's all it is, a part. Learning about

it is interesting. I am going to be included in further study and research for

it, as I am going on this course. I hope to learn to care better for myself and

perhaps grow up and stop looking to jon for emotional validation. So in

summary, I think that Cassandra theory is helpful, provided you take a

responsible and circumspective approach to it, not just the lazy route of blame.

It's not fully mature yet as a theory, and who knows what it will look like in

the next 50 years?

As I have tried to make clear, this is entirely my subjective view. I do

respect other's view, and perhaps after the course I will be agreeing with you!

Becky, the emotional one.

>

>

> Greetings:

>

> I would just add my personal perspective. We are all unique and different and

we tend to love to put people in " groups " and " boxes " . This is how we are

raised and we do it like we breathe air. From the time we are little we begin

to notice how we are different from others.

>

> I participated in an experiment in my sociology class last week. We were

split in 5 groups. Setting was 10,000 years ago and we were building an

irrigation canal. Groups were: Government; Architect's; Mason's, Maintenance

and Digger's. Prize was 10,000 gold coins. How do we distribute the wealth?

Unfortunately, I was in the Digger's group and it was horrible experience to be

perceived by other's as expendable and not worthy because of my label. It was a

lesson in social stratification which has always existed from day one. Why do I

include this in my post? Because we label folks and attach value to that

judgment based on what we think we know to be true. Many times it is thinking

errors that we have been raised or feed on.

>

> EVERY NS/AS relationship is different as both parties are different and we ALL

bring something to the table including our baggage as I have never met anyone

who did not have baggage in some sort from childhood. How many books have you

read where someone said, I had the perfect childhood? It does not exist. It is

called life, and we learn as we go along, same as our parents did and those

before them. Then along the way, social norms shift. MORE CHANGE!!!!!!!! Life

is always changing. It was not that long ago that homosexuality was considered

deviant, a choice, a crime, a mental disorder, and now sexual orientation.

Autism will continue to be redefined as well as we learn more.

>

> Is Cassandra a " real " disorder? Well, it is recognized in parts of Europe,

but then again they recognized AS first. Is Asperger Syndrome a real disorder?

Depends on who you ask and if the DSM 5 has their way, the title will vanish as

it morphs into autism under one umbrella. Social norms in the way we look at

AS, will shift again when we get more information from a scientific perspective.

Who knows what it will look like in 50 years from now?

>

> Many women/men wrap their identity around " Cassandra, " just as some with AS

identify with the AS label. You don't have to understand it, but be respectful

that others might think differently than you or offer a different perspective.

It does not make either side right and the research on AS/NT couples has not

been published yet. There are several studies waiting in the wings. I agree

with Bill, have an open mind about anything. Check it out and make an informed

choice that is good or right for you, it doesn't matter what others think as not

everyone will agree with you on any given issue.

>

> Some relationships are not meant to be for a variety of reasons. BUT if

communication & social skills are the hallmark (missing/or lacking) ingredient

for some with autism and a requirement for relationships, why would the NT

partner not be affected by it? I am NOT saying the AS partner is not equally

affected. AS is a family affair and everyone in the home is affected. How that

plays out is dependent on what support the family has, what resources they can

access and how they respond to it. Everyone is different.

>

> How folks identify is a personal choice. We don't have to understand it, but

respect it. Cassandra has appeal to anyone in a relationship with an Apollo man

who functions differently outside of the family unit. There are many functional

people in society that are totally different in their home life.

>

> Just my humble opinion.

>

>

>

> PS: I am divorced and living with my AS ex due to economic conditions. My

daughter told me this evening some of her friends don't get it and she is in a

position trying to defend our relationship. We weren't marriage material. But

it has been 5 years since the divorce and we both have grown and moved FF.

Other's don't have to get it. Just us, and that is the moral to this story. We

carve out our own lives and do what we have to for survival. I think the

advantage Larry and I have is knowing we came from AS parents and what it did

to us and we both share one thing in common and that is our kids should never

feel this way and a bi-product of our special interest. They are unique and it

is our job to cultivate their interest.

>

> But that is just us.

>

> Just me and this is just my personal opinon.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi CJ The spirit of ASPIRES has always been, we might not  always agree, but TOGETHER we make a difference.  I think you brought up some valid points and I just happen to totally agree with you.  Thank you for your thoughts and everyone else who has commented.  I think CJ said it best in her post.  People come together for different reasons.  There is a support group for NT wives in Portland, OR.  Due to distance, I have never been able to attend, but I am on their mailing list and can read their private board when I have time.  Part of any support group allows for some venting as it needs to be built into their program.  This Portland based women’s group is no different, but the bulk is women helping women get a leg up and sometimes that is just planning social events outside of the home to help them relax and enjoy their time and help them become stronger in their own right separate from their families.  Because if you are not happy, healthy and strong, how can you be a good parent or partner.  This is the same advice offered to anyone regardless of AS or NT regarding self-help and leading a healthy life. My personal opinion is:  IF folks identify with Cassandra for whatever reason, that is their right.  Many folks identify with many labels and will never qualify for the diagnosis because they are too high functioning to warrant the label and services which can be attributed to system problems or not.  My personal opinion on Cassandra is just mine and I am not trying to convince anyone to change your opinion as your opinion is just as valid.  There is so much division in our world today, that maybe we need to focus on what binds us and not divides us?  WHY is the idea of Cassandra such a threat or red flag to some on this list?   Maybe that is the real question?  What is it the trigger?  Just curious.  PS:  I would agree with , “who†is really NT as we can’t define it. BUT for the sake of argument the DSM has defined AS.   How many more labels do we need and what do they provide outside of a prescription for medication? Comments?  I learn from all of you. Just a thought and my personal 2 cents worth as usual.