Re: Pain In Fibromyalgia Is Linked To Changes In Brain Molecule

[Guest guest]

the way I understand it is that fibromyalgia is kind of like the top

of the iceburg,PNS involment and I believe the cause is

toxin/chrmical exposure, even at a low level chronic level. theres a

little more involved with damp moldy building exposures and theres 12

cranial nerves in our head that when damaged,each leads to different

effects.

from damage to protective sleaths, protective matter at nerve

ends,receptor and transmitter funtion. really, what happens in our

brains play a hudge role.

>

> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080310112658.htm

>

> Pain In Fibromyalgia Is Linked To Changes In Brain Molecule

>

> ScienceDaily (2008-03-10) -- Researchers have found a key linkage

> between pain and a specific brain molecule, a discovery that lends

new

> insight into fibromyalgia, an often-baffling chronic pain condition.

>

[Guest guest]

I have a question about your statement. Are you stating that

exposure to mold toxins and chemical exposure can cause

fibromyalgia? I have worked in the moldy underground basement office

for 16 years. It was discovered in 2006 that the landscaper put

sewer sludge treated beauty bark outside the leaking wall in the

basement. After the building was powered washed, to prepare it for

painting, chemicals described at solvents, pesticides, and orangic

matter leached through the crack in the wall and I was overcome by

fumes and taken to ER by fire medics. I did not smell the fumes until

someone from the outside came in the office. It makes me think that

this has been leaking for a long time at low levels that we could not

smell it until it was at a higher level. I was diagnoised with

Fibromyalgia 8 months after I started working there. I had to retire

in June. Just never related Fibro to mold. I also now have chronic

asthma, and chronic pain and fatigue. Thanks, this is news to me!

-- In , " who " <jeaninem660@...> wrote:

>

> the way I understand it is that fibromyalgia is kind of like the

top

> of the iceburg,PNS involment and I believe the cause is

> toxin/chrmical exposure, even at a low level chronic level. theres

a

> little more involved with damp moldy building exposures and theres

12

> cranial nerves in our head that when damaged,each leads to

different

> effects.

> from damage to protective sleaths, protective matter at nerve

> ends,receptor and transmitter funtion. really, what happens in our

> brains play a hudge role.

>

>

> >

> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080310112658.htm

> >

> > Pain In Fibromyalgia Is Linked To Changes In Brain Molecule

> >

> > ScienceDaily (2008-03-10) -- Researchers have found a key linkage

> > between pain and a specific brain molecule, a discovery that

lends

> new

> > insight into fibromyalgia, an often-baffling chronic pain

condition.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

it's not been proven, it's just what I strongly believe based on my

own exposure.theres also info. regarding arachnoiditis being involved

which is damage to the arachnoid layer of malyein sleath that

covers/protects the brain and spinal cord. you might try a search on

the 12 cranial nerves and also try " arachnoiditis vs. fibromyalgia "

also on the malyein sleath (spelling ?) whats refered to as the

ponytail (end). also, if you tie in the toxins/chemicals that are

quantum dot size that can go strainght up the nose to the brain and

can damage the olfactory system/bulbs/tract and amygadila in the

limbic system. also the makyein sleath starts right there, the

forehead and the dura and other laters can get damaged and the csf

can get infected ( toxic miningitis) from that route too, I think.so

anyway, thats why I think that fivromyalgia is the tip of the iceburg

and starts with cronic low exposures but can go on to become much

more at higher doses, or maybe even slowly spread more further into

the braon at low doses but may take many years. ok, just take this

dor what it's worth. I kind of needed the distraction and I'm one of

those bullheaded type people and had to test my brain to see if I

could make some of this that I studied awhile back. lol's that hurt.

hope it makes some sence. DOCCROFT told me it would be good to force

my brain to work by reading,ect. in 2004 after I sent him some info.

that when I look at now just makes me have to laugh, it was such a

mess. he also taught ne about advoidance. thanks DC, the brain is a

mysterious thing. so it is in there somewhere,kind of fragmented but

there.

> >

> > the way I understand it is that fibromyalgia is kind of like the

> top

> > of the iceburg,PNS involment and I believe the cause is

> > toxin/chrmical exposure, even at a low level chronic level.

theres

> a

> > little more involved with damp moldy building exposures and

theres

> 12

> > cranial nerves in our head that when damaged,each leads to

> different

> > effects.

> > from damage to protective sleaths, protective matter at nerve

> > ends,receptor and transmitter funtion. really, what happens in

our

> > brains play a hudge role.

> >

> > --- In , " Kim " <indypets1965@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080310112658.htm

> > >

> > > Pain In Fibromyalgia Is Linked To Changes In Brain Molecule

> > >

> > > ScienceDaily (2008-03-10) -- Researchers have found a key

linkage

> > > between pain and a specific brain molecule, a discovery that

> lends

> > new

> > > insight into fibromyalgia, an often-baffling chronic pain

> condition.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

gees, it took me so lonf to write that, I thought it was alor longer

than it was. lol's one of those days

>

> it's not been proven, it's just what I strongly believe based on my

> own exposure.theres also info. regarding arachnoiditis being

involved

> which is damage to the arachnoid layer of malyein sleath that

> covers/protects the brain and spinal cord. you might try a search

on

> the 12 cranial nerves and also try " arachnoiditis vs. fibromyalgia "

> also on the malyein sleath (spelling ?) whats refered to as the

> ponytail (end). also, if you tie in the toxins/chemicals that are

> quantum dot size that can go strainght up the nose to the brain and

> can damage the olfactory system/bulbs/tract and amygadila in the

> limbic system. also the makyein sleath starts right there, the

> forehead and the dura and other laters can get damaged and the csf

> can get infected ( toxic miningitis) from that route too, I

think.so

> anyway, thats why I think that fivromyalgia is the tip of the

iceburg

> and starts with cronic low exposures but can go on to become much

> more at higher doses, or maybe even slowly spread more further into

> the braon at low doses but may take many years. ok, just take this

> dor what it's worth. I kind of needed the distraction and I'm one

of

> those bullheaded type people and had to test my brain to see if I

> could make some of this that I studied awhile back. lol's that hurt.

> hope it makes some sence. DOCCROFT told me it would be good to

force

> my brain to work by reading,ect. in 2004 after I sent him some

info.

> that when I look at now just makes me have to laugh, it was such a

> mess. he also taught ne about advoidance. thanks DC, the brain is a

> mysterious thing. so it is in there somewhere,kind of fragmented

but

> there.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is a very interesting and mysterious topic. Do mold toxins cause

" fibromyalgia " Dr. Shoemakers stand makes the most sence to me medicly so far.

He says he does not want to hear that word out of any doctors mouth basiclly. He

further explains that the symptems of " fibromyalgia " are actually the levels of

things like C4a, MSH, VIP and MMP-9. These levels will cause Chronic Fatigue due

to toxins in the system that have penetrated the brain barrier. My understanding

is that all these generic labels for all these symptems we are talking about

are, yes, caused by these toxins. To me it just means call it whatever you want

but the cause is the same, being the high or low levels of of the labs mentioned

above. So am I saying that toxins are the only way these levels get out of

whack. Hell, I don't know. but I think so. Mold is not the only toxin that can

reach the brain but what I do know is that to get there the molecules have to be

very small and there are only so many of

those.

I hope I made sence. Ha. Better explained by Shoemaker himself in " Mold

Warriors " but after haveing all these test run and seeing the results, it makes

absolute sence.

who <jeaninem660@...> wrote:

it's not been proven, it's just what I strongly believe based on my

own exposure.theres also info. regarding arachnoiditis being involved

which is damage to the arachnoid layer of malyein sleath that

covers/protects the brain and spinal cord. you might try a search on

the 12 cranial nerves and also try " arachnoiditis vs. fibromyalgia "

also on the malyein sleath (spelling ?) whats refered to as the

ponytail (end). also, if you tie in the toxins/chemicals that are

quantum dot size that can go strainght up the nose to the brain and

can damage the olfactory system/bulbs/tract and amygadila in the

limbic system. also the makyein sleath starts right there, the

forehead and the dura and other laters can get damaged and the csf

can get infected ( toxic miningitis) from that route too, I think.so

anyway, thats why I think that fivromyalgia is the tip of the iceburg

and starts with cronic low exposures but can go on to become much

more at higher doses, or maybe even slowly spread more further into

the braon at low doses but may take many years. ok, just take this

dor what it's worth. I kind of needed the distraction and I'm one of

those bullheaded type people and had to test my brain to see if I

could make some of this that I studied awhile back. lol's that hurt.

hope it makes some sence. DOCCROFT told me it would be good to force

my brain to work by reading,ect. in 2004 after I sent him some info.

that when I look at now just makes me have to laugh, it was such a

mess. he also taught ne about advoidance. thanks DC, the brain is a

mysterious thing. so it is in there somewhere,kind of fragmented but

there.

> >

> > the way I understand it is that fibromyalgia is kind of like the

> top

> > of the iceburg,PNS involment and I believe the cause is

> > toxin/chrmical exposure, even at a low level chronic level.

theres

> a

> > little more involved with damp moldy building exposures and

theres

> 12

> > cranial nerves in our head that when damaged,each leads to

> different

> > effects.

> > from damage to protective sleaths, protective matter at nerve

> > ends,receptor and transmitter funtion. really, what happens in

our

> > brains play a hudge role.

> >

> > --- In , " Kim " <indypets1965@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080310112658.htm

> > >

> > > Pain In Fibromyalgia Is Linked To Changes In Brain Molecule

> > >

> > > ScienceDaily (2008-03-10) -- Researchers have found a key

linkage

> > > between pain and a specific brain molecule, a discovery that

> lends

> > new

> > > insight into fibromyalgia, an often-baffling chronic pain

> condition.

> > >

> >

>

---------------------------------

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

My very first diagnosis before the discovery of my mold exposure was

Fibromyalgia but I knew that there had to be something else wrong;

that I must have something else because the clinical definition of

Fibromyalgia only cover my achiness and pain but did not explain any

other symptoms. I was later diagnosed with Mycotoxicosis / M.E. which

I believe caused the CFS which has a component of Fibromyalgia (the

pain/achiness part of CFS). In short, yes, I know that Fibromyalgia

is caused by toxins including mycotoxins (mold)! I don't care what

the government wants people to believe with that stupid commercial

about Fibromyalgia being its own separate illness. It's Mycotoxicosis

CFS / M.E.!

Dana

>

> I have a question about your statement. Are you stating that

> exposure to mold toxins and chemical exposure can cause

> fibromyalgia? I have worked in the moldy underground basement

office

> for 16 years. It was discovered in 2006 that the landscaper put

> sewer sludge treated beauty bark outside the leaking wall in the

> basement. After the building was powered washed, to prepare it for

> painting, chemicals described at solvents, pesticides, and orangic

> matter leached through the crack in the wall and I was overcome by

> fumes and taken to ER by fire medics. I did not smell the fumes

until

> someone from the outside came in the office. It makes me think that

> this has been leaking for a long time at low levels that we could

not

> smell it until it was at a higher level. I was diagnoised with

> Fibromyalgia 8 months after I started working there. I had to

retire

> in June. Just never related Fibro to mold. I also now have

chronic

> asthma, and chronic pain and fatigue. Thanks, this is news to me!

>

>

[Guest guest]

you guys need to read Dr. Pall's

book Explaining Unexplained Illness. If you did, you would understand

that mold exposure inlfammatory cytokines causes activation of the

vanilloid receptor and the nitric oxide cycle to produce excessive

nitric oxide, peroxynitrite and stumualtion of the NMDA receptor

which is also stimulated by pyrethroids and organophosphate poisoning

and solvents. Basically when you get down to it, MCS, FM, Gulf War

Syndrome, CFS are all the same illness with slightly different

presentations depending on other genes and other factors. In other

words, in most cases if you have one you have more than one or all of

them. The psycholigical symptoms of anxiety alot of you have been

describing and in my case diagnosis of PTSD is from the stimulation

of those same receptors. I am sure you have all heard about the news

releases yesterday of Gulf War Syndrome.

Peroxynitrite (mentioned above) has been implicated as a major

factors in the death of cells in neurodegenerative diseases

including Parkinsons, Alzheimers, ALS, Huntingtons Disease and

numerous others. Peroxynitrite and Superoxide are also implicated in

the lowering of energy availability of cells by altering the electron

transport in mitochondria which also causes attack on cellular DNA.

The NMDA receptor are found in the brainm spinal cord and the CNS and

are acted on by glutamate which was mentioned in the article I posted

yesterday. There is a relationship between glutamate and GABA and

this ratio is involved in some issues of toxicity. Glutamate

stimulates the NMDA receptors and too much causes excitotoxicity

leading the damage to the nervous system. Oh yes, then when there is

less ATP your cells siwtch their method of metabolism resulting in

acidosis and possible cellular hypoxia.

By the way, the vanilloid receptor is also stimulated by heat and

also by low pH which is another common factor in CFS. As you see,

there is no denying the severity of mold exposure or exposure to

formaldehyde or to other solvents.....the long-term pathology of

mold exposure is not so much the inflammation it causes in the

respiratory tract but the stimulation of the nitric oxide cycle,

NMDA,and all the othe biochemical cascades it initiates and then can

not shut off.

> >

> > I have a question about your statement. Are you stating that

> > exposure to mold toxins and chemical exposure can cause

> > fibromyalgia? I have worked in the moldy underground basement

> office

> > for 16 years. It was discovered in 2006 that the landscaper put

> > sewer sludge treated beauty bark outside the leaking wall in the

> > basement. After the building was powered washed, to prepare it for

> > painting, chemicals described at solvents, pesticides, and orangic

> > matter leached through the crack in the wall and I was overcome by

> > fumes and taken to ER by fire medics. I did not smell the fumes

> until

> > someone from the outside came in the office. It makes me think

that

> > this has been leaking for a long time at low levels that we could

> not

> > smell it until it was at a higher level. I was diagnoised with

> > Fibromyalgia 8 months after I started working there. I had to

> retire

> > in June. Just never related Fibro to mold. I also now have

> chronic

> > asthma, and chronic pain and fatigue. Thanks, this is news to me!

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

oh, just wanted to cirrect my post at the end where my brain took a

sidetract, for the record. I was thinking about the last time I saq

that. I haven't been able to see anything on paper for a few years.

>

> gees, it took me so lonf to write that, I thought it was alor longer

> than it was. lol's one of those days

>

>

[Guest guest]

thanks for that inpit USV. by the time I knew about shoemaker I

couldn't see the worfd in books anymore to read them. one of my

favorate things to do. I dont like that word either,or the fact

that the cause is said to be unknown, about anytime I see those

words " cause unknown " it sends up a red flag with the word toxins

written on it.

>

> This is a very interesting and mysterious topic. Do mold toxins

cause " fibromyalgia " Dr. Shoemakers stand makes the most sence to me

medicly so far. He says he does not want to hear that word out of any

doctors mouth basiclly. He further explains that the symptems

of " fibromyalgia " are actually the levels of things like C4a, MSH,

VIP and MMP-9. These levels will cause Chronic Fatigue due to toxins

in the system that have penetrated the brain barrier. My

understanding is that all these generic labels for all these symptems

we are talking about are, yes, caused by these toxins. To me it just

means call it whatever you want but the cause is the same, being the

high or low levels of of the labs mentioned above. So am I saying

that toxins are the only way these levels get out of whack. Hell, I

don't know. but I think so. Mold is not the only toxin that can reach

the brain but what I do know is that to get there the molecules have

to be very small and there are only so many of

> those.

> I hope I made sence. Ha. Better explained by Shoemaker himself

in " Mold Warriors " but after haveing all these test run and seeing

the results, it makes absolute sence.

>

[Guest guest]

something like this maybe? state unknown cause, re-invent old drug

with new name, sales,sales. no cure for toxin exposure anyway except

to stop produceing them and thats not going to happen cause we'd go

out of business. who cares if our water and ground is contaminated,

we are rakeing in the cash.

--- In , " gsgrl2000 " <gsgrl2000@...>

wrote:

>

> My very first diagnosis before the discovery of my mold exposure was

> Fibromyalgia but I knew that there had to be something else wrong;

> that I must have something else because the clinical definition of

> Fibromyalgia only cover my achiness and pain but did not explain any

> other symptoms. I was later diagnosed with Mycotoxicosis / M.E.

which

> I believe caused the CFS which has a component of Fibromyalgia (the

> pain/achiness part of CFS). In short, yes, I know that Fibromyalgia

> is caused by toxins including mycotoxins (mold)! I don't care what

> the government wants people to believe with that stupid commercial

> about Fibromyalgia being its own separate illness. It's

Mycotoxicosis

> CFS / M.E.!

>

> Dana

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

thanks Kim, yes, I haven't read bell's book but have read alot on

line, my diagnosis went from anixity and depression in first home

(diagnosed while exposure was what could possably be considered a low

level than) and after exposure in second home to very high levels it

was than diagnosed as PTSD. while I did not see flashbacks, they were

like a rollercoaster in my head. I could be talking and change

subjucts in the middle of a sentence, remember sometimes being asked

something and the answer that came out of my mouth had nothing to do

with the question and I would realize it sometimes right after it

happened, it was weird.I dont recall much at the worst point of my

exposure when I had closed the windows and turned on the ac in that

second home, but I remember funding things in strange places that I

guess I put there like thing in the fridge that dont go there. I

recall my short term memory just gone. I had blak spots in my view

that were moveing, someing from far away, getting closer and closer

and more and more than it would start again. later after getting out

I kept getting black spots in the coners of my eyes and it made me

startled when it happened because I was alone and it was like that

started effect that you fet when someone walks up behind you that you

didn't know was there and at that moment they appear in your viewing

range. that was weird. I was so disfunctional. I remember later

crying and telling family that I thought I had lost my mind and tried

to tell them that something was wrong with my brain but couldn't

explain it. than get diagnosed with PTSD but sence the brain damage

itself wasn't diagnosed, no one related it to physical damage caused

by the exposure, they all just thought I had a mental breakdown or

something which trally is stupied because they all knew I was a very

strong person and had been through worse things than finding our I

had got screwed over on the purchase of a home. it guess thats whats

happens when people dont understand how the braon and body works and

just believe everything their told by a doctor. I don't blame them

because I used to be the same way, never was sick so I had no need to

understand. wasn't on my list of interests.

> > >

> > > I have a question about your statement. Are you stating that

> > > exposure to mold toxins and chemical exposure can cause

> > > fibromyalgia? I have worked in the moldy underground basement

> > office

> > > for 16 years. It was discovered in 2006 that the landscaper put

> > > sewer sludge treated beauty bark outside the leaking wall in the

> > > basement. After the building was powered washed, to prepare it

for

> > > painting, chemicals described at solvents, pesticides, and

orangic

> > > matter leached through the crack in the wall and I was overcome

by

> > > fumes and taken to ER by fire medics. I did not smell the fumes

> > until

> > > someone from the outside came in the office. It makes me think

> that

> > > this has been leaking for a long time at low levels that we

could

> > not

> > > smell it until it was at a higher level. I was diagnoised with

> > > Fibromyalgia 8 months after I started working there. I had to

> > retire

> > > in June. Just never related Fibro to mold. I also now have

> > chronic

> > > asthma, and chronic pain and fatigue. Thanks, this is news to

me!

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I totally agree. It's convencing some doctors and others of this

concept that is the problem.

> > >

> > > I have a question about your statement. Are you stating that

> > > exposure to mold toxins and chemical exposure can cause

> > > fibromyalgia? I have worked in the moldy underground basement

> > office

> > > for 16 years. It was discovered in 2006 that the landscaper put

> > > sewer sludge treated beauty bark outside the leaking wall in the

> > > basement. After the building was powered washed, to prepare it

for

> > > painting, chemicals described at solvents, pesticides, and

orangic

> > > matter leached through the crack in the wall and I was overcome

by

> > > fumes and taken to ER by fire medics. I did not smell the fumes

> > until

> > > someone from the outside came in the office. It makes me think

> that

> > > this has been leaking for a long time at low levels that we

could

> > not

> > > smell it until it was at a higher level. I was diagnoised with

> > > Fibromyalgia 8 months after I started working there. I had to

> > retire

> > > in June. Just never related Fibro to mold. I also now have

> > chronic

> > > asthma, and chronic pain and fatigue. Thanks, this is news to

me!

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

came across this earlier, wish my sound was working. need to fix that.

? mcs

http://www.conceptmed.com//mcs1/mcs2.html

> > > >

> > > > I have a question about your statement. Are you stating that

> > > > exposure to mold toxins and chemical exposure can cause

> > > > fibromyalgia? I have worked in the moldy underground basement

> > > office

> > > > for 16 years. It was discovered in 2006 that the landscaper

put

> > > > sewer sludge treated beauty bark outside the leaking wall in

the

> > > > basement. After the building was powered washed, to prepare

it

> for

> > > > painting, chemicals described at solvents, pesticides, and

> orangic

> > > > matter leached through the crack in the wall and I was

overcome

> by

> > > > fumes and taken to ER by fire medics. I did not smell the

fumes

> > > until

> > > > someone from the outside came in the office. It makes me think

> > that

> > > > this has been leaking for a long time at low levels that we

> could

> > > not

> > > > smell it until it was at a higher level. I was diagnoised with

> > > > Fibromyalgia 8 months after I started working there. I had to

> > > retire

> > > > in June. Just never related Fibro to mold. I also now have

> > > chronic

> > > > asthma, and chronic pain and fatigue. Thanks, this is news

to

> me!

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

" who " wrote:sorry, I ment Pall, why do I keep calling him

Bell? I dont know, duh.

> thanks Kim, yes, I haven't read bell's book but have read alot on

> line, my diagnosis went from anixity and depression in first home

> (diagnosed while exposure was what could possably be considered a

low

> level than) and after exposure in second home to very high levels

it

> was than diagnosed as PTSD. while I did not see flashbacks, they

were

> like a rollercoaster in my head. I could be talking and change

> subjucts in the middle of a sentence, remember sometimes being

asked

> something and the answer that came out of my mouth had nothing to

do

> with the question and I would realize it sometimes right after it

> happened, it was weird.I dont recall much at the worst point of my

> exposure when I had closed the windows and turned on the ac in that

> second home, but I remember funding things in strange places that I

> guess I put there like thing in the fridge that dont go there. I

> recall my short term memory just gone. I had blak spots in my view

> that were moveing, someing from far away, getting closer and closer

> and more and more than it would start again. later after getting

out

> I kept getting black spots in the coners of my eyes and it made me

> startled when it happened because I was alone and it was like that

> started effect that you fet when someone walks up behind you that

you

> didn't know was there and at that moment they appear in your

viewing

> range. that was weird. I was so disfunctional. I remember later

> crying and telling family that I thought I had lost my mind and

tried

> to tell them that something was wrong with my brain but couldn't

> explain it. than get diagnosed with PTSD but sence the brain damage

> itself wasn't diagnosed, no one related it to physical damage

caused

> by the exposure, they all just thought I had a mental breakdown or

> something which trally is stupied because they all knew I was a

very

> strong person and had been through worse things than finding our I

> had got screwed over on the purchase of a home. it guess thats

whats

> happens when people dont understand how the braon and body works

and

> just believe everything their told by a doctor. I don't blame them

> because I used to be the same way, never was sick so I had no need

to

> understand. wasn't on my list of interests.

>

>

> >

> > you guys need to read Dr. Pall's

> > book Explaining Unexplained Illness. If you did, you would

> understand

> > that mold exposure inlfammatory cytokines causes activation of the

> > vanilloid receptor and the nitric oxide cycle to produce excessive

> > nitric oxide, peroxynitrite and stumualtion of the NMDA receptor

> > which is also stimulated by pyrethroids and organophosphate

> poisoning

> > and solvents. Basically when you get down to it, MCS, FM, Gulf War

> > Syndrome, CFS are all the same illness with slightly different

> > presentations depending on other genes and other factors. In other

> > words, in most cases if you have one you have more than one or

all

> of

> > them. The psycholigical symptoms of anxiety alot of you have been

> > describing and in my case diagnosis of PTSD is from the

stimulation

> > of those same receptors. I am sure you have all heard about the

news

> > releases yesterday of Gulf War Syndrome.

> >

> > Peroxynitrite (mentioned above) has been implicated as a major

> > factors in the death of cells in neurodegenerative diseases

> > including Parkinsons, Alzheimers, ALS, Huntingtons Disease and

> > numerous others. Peroxynitrite and Superoxide are also implicated

in

> > the lowering of energy availability of cells by altering the

> electron

> > transport in mitochondria which also causes attack on cellular

DNA.

> > The NMDA receptor are found in the brainm spinal cord and the CNS

> and

> > are acted on by glutamate which was mentioned in the article I

> posted

> > yesterday. There is a relationship between glutamate and GABA and

> > this ratio is involved in some issues of toxicity. Glutamate

> > stimulates the NMDA receptors and too much causes excitotoxicity

> > leading the damage to the nervous system. Oh yes, then when

there

> is

> > less ATP your cells siwtch their method of metabolism resulting in

> > acidosis and possible cellular hypoxia.

> >

> > By the way, the vanilloid receptor is also stimulated by heat and

> > also by low pH which is another common factor in CFS. As you see,

> > there is no denying the severity of mold exposure or exposure to

> > formaldehyde or to other solvents.....the long-term pathology of

> > mold exposure is not so much the inflammation it causes in the

> > respiratory tract but the stimulation of the nitric oxide cycle,

> > NMDA,and all the othe biochemical cascades it initiates and then

can

> > not shut off.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Dr. Pall's theory, yet to be tested, is a good scenario for

chronicity and spreading of inflammatory effects. However, these

effects most frequently stem from primary insults to the system from

external sources such as chemical and fungal agents. It does not

explain primary insults (i.e. direct damage to various mechanism)

that are clearly documented by the primary targets of these

materials. For instance, pesticides directly attack and disable the

mechanism for regulating neural firing. That is not a function of

the NOONO cycle. Muscle pain is also caused by excessive

contractions of hyperenervated musculature. Damage to lungs and

sinuses from microbial sources erode those entry points to the

system and CNS directly too.

Until physicians learn to recognize initiating episodes of primary

damage, there will be no recognition of the secondary and

progressive illnesses resulting from the body no longer being able

to maintain homeostasis. System by system has to become impeded.

Until physicians learn to identify primary damage, patients will

continue to be viewed as having some idiosyncratic problem which is

self-sustaining - and no one's problem except our own.

Recently published opinion is redefiining asthma as a source of

systemic inflammation. The connections we are all too aware of

between respiratory and GI tract is being discussed. This may have

been the result of case after case of patients being examined as

GWS, 9/11 and millions of asthmatics demonstrate the same problems.

It would be ludicrous to say so many people had two different

problems. The search then continues its way for a single causative

factor which may vary from person to person but will always boil

down to initial insults of an acute or chronic nature.

Teachers are among the top class falling victim to autoimmune

diseases in this country. Occupational ailments are a window into

such things. It isn't genetics which draw diverse (and healthy)

individuals to particular professions even if genetic diversity

leads to greater damage to some than to others.

We can clean up the environment but not recreate the human genome.

Let's work on the aspects which can be both proven and manipulated

through legal actions to alter markets. Publicizing the costs of

illness (since no one really cares about the suffering engendered)

to the remaining healthy persons will also be effective. If you have

a third of the population supporting two thirds and realizing it,

the theory of the free marketplace disappears.

Suddenly people realize who is really paying for it. They are and it

ain't free.

Barb Rubin

==========================================

sorry, I ment Pall, why do I keep calling him

> Bell? I dont know, duh.

[Guest guest]

NO is a potent neurotransmitter at the neuron synapses and

contributes to the regulation of apoptosis, has the ability to

control and alter neuronal control directly by stimulating GABA

release involving calcium-dependent or calcium-independent synaptic

release or the reversal of the GABA transporter and plays a key role

in the pathogenesis of inflammation.

In Neural Sensitization: the Medical Key to Treatment, Dr. Zeim

writes " under normal physiological conditions nitric oxide has an

anti-inflammatory effect but in abnormal situations it becaomes a pro-

inflammatory mediator that induces inflammation. Organophosphates

inhibit acetylcholine and as a result stimulate nitric oxide. NO is

synthesized and released into the endothelial cells by the help of

NOSs that convert arginine into citrulline producing NO in the

process. Oxygen and NADPH are necessary co-factors in such

conversion. NO is believed to induce vasodilatation in cardiovascular

system and furthermore, it involves in immune responses by cytokine-

activated macrophages, which release NO in high concentrations. NO

is involved in the pathogenesis of inflammatory disorders of the

joint, gut and lungs. Therefore, NO inhibitors represent important

therapeutic advance in the management of inflammatory diseases.

Selective NO biosynthesis inhibitors and synthetic arginine analogues

are proved to be used for the treatment of NO-induced inflammation.

Finally, the undesired effects of NO are due to its impaired

production, including in short: vasoconstriction, inflammation and

tissue damage.

Neural sensitization can occur by activation of brain and nerve cell

N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA), which then increases brain nitric oxide

(NO). Several vicious biochemical cycles are then set in motion.

Nitric oxide forms a tissue damaging free radical known as

peroxynitrite.Peroxynitrite depletes energy ATP, which then further

increases the sensitization of NMDA.

Peroxynitrite is a highly potent free radical that damages proteins

(including enzymes), lipids (brain and, cell walls, mitochondrial

membranes, ribosomal membranes and genetic DNA membranes).

Antioxidants such as tocopherols (natural Vitamin E), ascorbic acid

(vitamin C), and glutathione help protect against these effects.

Cofactors for superoxide dismutase (zinc, copper and manganese) and

glutathione peroxidase (selenium) can also protect against damage.

Neural sensitization is thus associated with self-perpetuating

neuroexcitation and excessive response to further chemical exposure.

This NMDA activation with increased nitric oxide and peroxynitrite

can cause brain cell death and neurogenerative disease.

Peroxynitrite also weakens the blood-brain barrier, allowing

chemicals to enter the brain more readily. Nitric oxide also damages

the first detoxification step involving the cytochrome p450

system,allowing chemicals (and many drugs) to build up more in the

body, further perpetuating the vicious chemical inflammation (neural

sensitization) cycle.

Causes of Neural Sensitization:

*Pesticides such as organophosphates inhibit acetylcholine,

activating muscarinic receptors, which increase nitric oxide.

Formaldehyde activates NMDA.

*Petrochemicals (VOC's, solvents) disrupt energy production in the

mitochondria, increase superoxide which increases peroxynitrite.

This can then increase tissue-damaging free radicals in the brain.

Peroxynitrite impairs energy metabolism by attaching proteins in the

mitochondria. Carbon monoxide also induces increased activity of

nitric oxide and its byproducts. Carbon monoxide is released in all

combustion: coal, gas, gasoline/diesel, wood, tobacco, and even

natural products (beeswax and other candles) and 'aromatherapy'.

Mitochondria are structures in body cells that generate energy by

producing ATP. Mitochondria damage has been documented in the vast

majority of patients with chronic illness from chemical injury.

*Formaldehyde stimulates the brain vanilloid receptor. This receptor

induces sensitization by increasing nitric oxide and activating the

NMDA receptor,which then increases peroxynitrite and sets in motion

neural sensitization. Vanilloid stimulation also increases release of

immune substance P. Increased substance P is associated with reactive

airway disease.

*Irritants. Petrochemicals and many other chemicals are irritants

that with exposure can cause inflammation. Inflammation of sufficient

duration can lead to chronic neurogenic inflammation. Inflammation

results in increased cytokines, free radicals and further elevated

nitric oxide. This ongoing inflammation increases artherosclerosis,

increased risk of neurodegenerative (Parkinsons, Altzeimers, ALS).

And other degenerative disease (osteoporosis, arthritis, etc.) and

autoimmune disease. "

Kim

Health Educator and Medical Researcher

Involvement of the NMDA Receptor, NO-cyclic GMP and Nuclear Factor K-

in an Animal Model of Repeated Trauma. H. Harvey, Bothma,

An¨¦ Nel, Gregers Wegener, and Dan J. Stein. Human Psychopharmacology:

Clinical and Experimental, Volume (20) 5, Pages 367-373.

Nitric Oxide Stimulates ¦Ã-Aminobutyric Acid Release and Inhibits

Glycine Release in Retina. Dou Yu and Eldred. J Comp Neurol.

2005 March 14; 483(3): 278¨C291.

[Guest guest]

Inflammation begins with the introduction of the poison into the

environment. That leads to necessary 'damage control' on the part of

the body to resist its toxic effects. 'NO' is initially released in

order to prevent circulatory collapse upon the introduction of a

biological stressor. Vasodilation has a positive purpose to serve

under such crises. Inhibition without some manner of ensuring the

continuing introduction of stressors (e.g. toxicants/toxins) has

ceased may harm rather than help. Inhibition without the ability to

assess amounts and monitor concentrations is to place theory ahead

of practice.

For now, the treatments recommended are not recommended specifically

to inhibit 'NO'. That remains a theoretical benefit. The

recommended substances and supplements (which, by the way can cause

anaphylaxis in some of us) is to support the detoxification system.

We know its basis.

Inflammation is likely a source for much of todays most devestating

chronic diseases. I am most supportive of testing the 'NO' theories

so that treatment specific to its regulation can be developed.

However, I will continue to endorse supporting the identification

and removal of primary insults to the body which lead to

inflammation and its sequelae in chronic disease. That is entirely

possible to accomplish with today's knowledge and technology. There

is no reason to de-emphasize what must be done for every person's

health in this country.

The rest is equally important but still remains in great need of

research. Until more is known, patients require careful monitoring

in the use of supplements as per recommendations of Dr. Zeim. She

advises patients to identify deficiencies before blindly

supplementing. Blood testing is needed to ensure those supplements

are being properly metabolized so THEY don't become another source

of inflammatory activity (e.g. monitor homocysteine levels).

Every subject requires exploration. However, we have to be clear on

theory versus facts. We have to safety test each action and

understand that WE are guinea pigs while doing these treatments

(myself among them).

In the meantime we should not be distracted from continuing to fight

the poisoning of our country which is the greatest cause of illness.

No amount of glutathione will ever make benzene nontoxic or

permethrin harmless. Our bodies were not intended to become toxic

waste processing facilities for industry but that is the role

assigned to us. The emphasis is always brought back to the patient

as the defective cog in the wheel. Our bodies worked fine until

poisoning.

Barb Rubin

=========================================

>

> NO is a potent neurotransmitter at the neuron synapses and

> contributes to the regulation of apoptosis, has the ability to

> control and alter neuronal control directly by stimulating GABA

> release involving calcium-dependent or calcium-independent synaptic

> release or the reversal of the GABA transporter and plays a key

role

> in the pathogenesis of inflammation.

>

[Guest guest]

I got a little lost on your message, but yes,all mycotoxins are

cytotoxic, of corse it's the environmental insults/toxin exposure

that cause these chain of effects and yes, the higher the dose of

that insult and more physical damage, the more damaged you are.

martain palls theorys for well with the whole process. I didn't read

anyones books and researched anatomy and fungal infections and the

effects of, to almost every part of the body. this is a multi symptom

illness with multiple effects and the final piece of the puzzle for

me was realizing that it all goes together the physical effects of

toxin exposure. I also agree to the changeing of MCS to multiple

chemical intolerance and if you get allergies to molds it's just a

added pest to deal with.

sorry, I ment Pall, why do I keep calling him

> > Bell? I dont know, duh.

>

[Guest guest]

I think that the NOONO effect is very important as it plays a big

role in vascultitis and blood cysts caused by the toxins and

chemicals,and also in the csf and plays a role in the arachnoid cysts.

causeing anywhere from brain barrior seapage to BB breakdowns

depending on level of toxin exposure with the highest being rather

quick in some cases where toxic liver overload can lead to some

severe damage,and even death. what happens to airways,olfactory

mucus linings,gut bowel is different as it's from direct assult of

toxins and our first defence being the innate immune system causeing

inflamation and so on. but I've basicly been through 3 levels of

exposure low,medium and high and even at a low level exposure to

toxins you suffer the same symptoms with a lot of veritables. but

it's when the levels are high enough that your mucus system cant keep

up is where time becomes less of a factor and dose becomes more of a

factor. but even with low exposures the toxins getting into the blood

stream do cause NOONO and vasculitis and toxins can get there from

the lungs,stomach and even in the nose because the nose has the

thinest tissue and blood vessels are right there. also through other

places where vessels are close to skin surface. mold toxins are what

set up the environment for fungal invasion.

[Guest guest]

Below you said:

" Teachers are among the top class falling victim to autoimmune

diseases in this country.... "

I would love to cite this... do you have a source?

angela - fallen teacher

agasaya wrote:

>

> Dr. Pall's theory, yet to be tested, is a good scenario for

> chronicity and spreading of inflammatory effects. However, these

> effects most frequently stem from primary insults to the system from

> external sources such as chemical and fungal agents. It does not

> explain primary insults (i.e. direct damage to various mechanism)

> that are clearly documented by the primary targets of these

> materials. For instance, pesticides directly attack and disable the

> mechanism for regulating neural firing. That is not a function of

> the NOONO cycle. Muscle pain is also caused by excessive

> contractions of hyperenervated musculature. Damage to lungs and

> sinuses from microbial sources erode those entry points to the

> system and CNS directly too.

>

> Until physicians learn to recognize initiating episodes of primary

> damage, there will be no recognition of the secondary and

> progressive illnesses resulting from the body no longer being able

> to maintain homeostasis. System by system has to become impeded.

> Until physicians learn to identify primary damage, patients will

> continue to be viewed as having some idiosyncratic problem which is

> self-sustaining - and no one's problem except our own.

>

> Recently published opinion is redefiining asthma as a source of

> systemic inflammation. The connections we are all too aware of

> between respiratory and GI tract is being discussed. This may have

> been the result of case after case of patients being examined as

> GWS, 9/11 and millions of asthmatics demonstrate the same problems.

> It would be ludicrous to say so many people had two different

> problems. The search then continues its way for a single causative

> factor which may vary from person to person but will always boil

> down to initial insults of an acute or chronic nature.

>

> Teachers are among the top class falling victim to autoimmune

> diseases in this country. Occupational ailments are a window into

> such things. It isn't genetics which draw diverse (and healthy)

> individuals to particular professions even if genetic diversity

> leads to greater damage to some than to others.

>

> We can clean up the environment but not recreate the human genome.

> Let's work on the aspects which can be both proven and manipulated

> through legal actions to alter markets. Publicizing the costs of

> illness (since no one really cares about the suffering engendered)

> to the remaining healthy persons will also be effective. If you have

> a third of the population supporting two thirds and realizing it,

> the theory of the free marketplace disappears.

>

> Suddenly people realize who is really paying for it. They are and it

> ain't free.

>

> Barb Rubin

> ==========================================

>

> sorry, I ment Pall, why do I keep calling him

> > Bell? I dont know, duh.

>

>