Re: I failed the test....

[Guest guest]

Luxenburg wrote:

> Thursday I met with the DVR counselor to learn the psychologist's

> conclusions. Her take is that I do not fit the AS criteria, and can be

> better explained as nonverbal learning disorder and social phobia. Okay

Those two terms describe nothing very useful, IMO.

> - maybe - although two separate counselors on the basis not of a few

> hours and the WAIS, but working with me over a period of time have

> concluded that I fit into Aspergers. (I'm not denying the NLD, mind; in

, trust the two others, ...and yourself most of all. Or get

another opinion.

> fact, some asper or other wrote a book in which he identified himself as

> having the NLD type of AS (as opposed to technogeek).)

>

> What concerns me more, though, is that the recommendations have nothing

> to do with NLD, really, and the dyspraxia and sensory processing issues

> are not even mentioned. The psychologist is much more concerned with

> treating the " social phobia " through CBT, DBT and desensitization, while

No surprise - she'll get more money out of you that way.

> ignoring the social skills deficits which are the cause of anxiety in

> social situations. It's like treating illiteracy with psychotherapy

> instead of reading instruction.

Yes., nonsensical. That's why there's serious disarray in the shrinkery

industry: Few *real* standards, and not much consistency in applying

those that are believable.

There's justification for describing " psych " -anything as " soft " science.

- Bill ...AS, retired clinical/research geneticist

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

Hi Andromeda,

In this manner, I think many adult females, especially those of us

at a certain age " will escape a dx. We've been adapting all of our lives and the

older we get, the less AS we'll seem. Until criteria that is female-specific

becomes " cast in stone " most of us would be considered " too social to have AS, "

as I was told years ago.

Back in the early days of my self discovery when I belonged to several AS lists,

many women reported getting a " social phobia " " socially avoidant " or even an

" avoidant personality disorder " label. Well that wasn't the worst of it .. many

horror stories abounded about inappropriate labeling and treatment. What

happened to Sondra , an ASPIRES member and autism lecturer, when she was

a teenager, stands out as a most stark example. I'm sorry to read that you

happened across a professional who is still in the dark ages. I'd go with the

earlier assessments if I were you.

AS women are generally socially adept enough to know that our interests and

conversational style is markedly different from non spectrum females. Starting

at an early age we notice that non spectrum females preoccupations with certain

non-instrumental subjects is rather .. boring. But, whether AS or NS, it's part

of the female brain's wiring to continually monitor our peers responses and

adjust our own responses to them, for the purposes of bonding and cooperation

with other females for the survival of offspring.

Though we have just as many of the Aspergian traits as our AS male counterparts,

we are prompted by primitive programming to accommodate to the group, and that

masks the existence of AS in females to professionals. Going strictly by the

most literal interpretations of the DSM, most of us gals wouldn't " qualify " ..

those criteria were written almost exclusively for the male of the species, LOL.

Just my opinion.

- Helen

>

> Thursday I met with the DVR counselor to learn the psychologist's

> conclusions. Her take is that I do not fit the AS criteria, and can be

> better explained as nonverbal learning disorder and social phobia. Okay

> - maybe - although two separate counselors on the basis not of a few

> hours and the WAIS, but working with me over a period of time have

> concluded that I fit into Aspergers. (I'm not denying the NLD, mind; in

> fact, some asper or other wrote a book in which he identified himself as

> having the NLD type of AS (as opposed to technogeek).)

>

> What concerns me more, though, is that the recommendations have nothing

> to do with NLD, really, and the dyspraxia and sensory processing issues

> are not even mentioned. The psychologist is much more concerned with

> treating the " social phobia " through CBT, DBT and desensitization, while

> ignoring the social skills deficits which are the cause of anxiety in

> social situations. It's like treating illiteracy with psychotherapy

> instead of reading instruction.

>

> Andromeda

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Andromeda,

Helen says it below so well. I don't think females with AS are being adequally

differentiated yet. The defining categories have always required social

deficits that many AS women are programmed to mask and perhaps are able to do so

more easily as a group than their male counterparts, and women often don't meet

the other criteria of the DSM. I too think there are a whole lot of nondx'd AS

females out there.

I agree with Helen that women have an " accommodation gene " of sorts and women in

general are still not expected (especially at early ages) to be as individually

goal-oriented as men. And there is more tolerance/less attention paid to " shy "

females I think, than shy males, early on. If the " shyness " or antisocialness

persists later in life it is likely to get miscast as social phobias, fear of

being in groups, etc.

I spent many years on and off this group reading as much as I could about AS

because of my belief that my non-dx'd ex has AS... he has so many of the classic

stims and traits, including sensory issues. I came to the list believing that

I was in the typical NT/AS marriage initially. It took me a really long time to

think about myself as well, probably not even considering it until I remembered

that I had weird " habits " as a child such as when I went to bed I would rock

myself to sleep, being on all fours and banging my head against the headboard to

relieve stress or tire myself out enough to sleep; the fact that I had many

interests seen as traditionally male, such as science (I did all sorts of a

chemical experiments, invented things), engineering (I couldn't just ride my

bike, I had to take it completely apart and put it back together, I couldn't

just go sleighriding in winter I had to make my own sled, when I learned to

drive I had to learn as much as I could about car mechanics, do my own oil

changes, battery installation, understand the engine, etc). My perseverations

were many--wanting to learn everything about everything. The sun could go up

and down and I wouldn't even notice passing time. I read everything on my

parent's shelves, four or five books a week from the library, several

encyclopedia collections, several dictionaries; wrote voraciously and

illustrated my 'novels'; taught myself to paint with watercolor, oil and

acrylic; collected rocks and stamps; had to know every tree and plant in the

forest, and every make and model of car on the road, and every breed of dog and

be able to identify mixed breeds; studied psychology, taught myself foreign

languages, studied architecture, cooking, sewing, etc.) When my mother bought me

Barbies I was most interested in how they changed over time, what haircuts I

could give them and building housing for them out of boxes and other materials.

Socially, I was extremely shy and far preferred being alone to read and amuse

myself. I did not relate well to other girls except a few who were considered

" tomboys " that I had common interests with. I think that because I was

attractive in youth (I can say that now because it is referring to the past <g>)

and because teachers singled me out as academically advanced, I was not

permitted (nor by my parents) to give in to my shy and antisocial qualities and

had to learn to adapt and " fake " comfort in groups. Though it caused me much

panic, stress, stay-home-sick-days, even seizures from wiring overloads in

youth, I guess I did it well enough eventually that it became second nature.

I still, to this day, would far rather spend time alone reading, writing or

learning about something new, than with friends-- or would prefer spending time

with my animals. My long-time close friends know and accept me that way and I

don't think they take it personally because I am apologetic, am a low

maintenance friend and a good listener that they know they can call when they

need something (and they do), and I try hard to remember special occasions like

their birthdays and holidays and I get out a couple of times a year with them so

that I'm not a terribly neglectful friend -- but I have to force myself to do

it, for them, or it wouldn't happen.

Go with your heart and your gut as to what you think is going on with you. I

wouldn't put a lot of stock in that most recent dx (or lack thereof).

Re: I failed the test....

 

,

Hi Andromeda,

In this manner, I think many adult females, especially those of us

at a certain age " will escape a dx. We've been adapting all of our lives and the

older we get, the less AS we'll seem. Until criteria that is female-specific

becomes " cast in stone " most of us would be considered " too social to have AS, "

as I was told years ago.

Back in the early days of my self discovery when I belonged to several AS lists,

many women reported getting a " social phobia " " socially avoidant " or even an

" avoidant personality disorder " label. Well that wasn't the worst of it .. many

horror stories abounded about inappropriate labeling and treatment. What

happened to Sondra , an ASPIRES member and autism lecturer, when she was

a teenager, stands out as a most stark example. I'm sorry to read that you

happened across a professional who is still in the dark ages. I'd go with the

earlier assessments if I were you.

AS women are generally socially adept enough to know that our interests and

conversational style is markedly different from non spectrum females. Starting

at an early age we notice that non spectrum females preoccupations with certain

non-instrumental subjects is rather .. boring. But, whether AS or NS, it's part

of the female brain's wiring to continually monitor our peers responses and

adjust our own responses to them, for the purposes of bonding and cooperation

with other females for the survival of offspring.

Though we have just as many of the Aspergian traits as our AS male counterparts,

we are prompted by primitive programming to accommodate to the group, and that

masks the existence of AS in females to professionals. Going strictly by the

most literal interpretations of the DSM, most of us gals wouldn't " qualify " ..

those criteria were written almost exclusively for the male of the species, LOL.

Just my opinion.

- Helen

>

> Thursday I met with the DVR counselor to learn the psychologist's

> conclusions. Her take is that I do not fit the AS criteria, and can be

> better explained as nonverbal learning disorder and social phobia. Okay

> - maybe - although two separate counselors on the basis not of a few

> hours and the WAIS, but working with me over a period of time have

> concluded that I fit into Aspergers. (I'm not denying the NLD, mind; in

> fact, some asper or other wrote a book in which he identified himself as

> having the NLD type of AS (as opposed to technogeek).)

>

> What concerns me more, though, is that the recommendations have nothing

> to do with NLD, really, and the dyspraxia and sensory processing issues

> are not even mentioned. The psychologist is much more concerned with

> treating the " social phobia " through CBT, DBT and desensitization, while

> ignoring the social skills deficits which are the cause of anxiety in

> social situations. It's like treating illiteracy with psychotherapy

> instead of reading instruction.

>

> Andromeda

>