Re: I need some help (LONG)

[Guest guest]

CJ wrote:

>

> I debated about sharing this topic again, as I made a reference to the

> situation last week and it didn't seem to generate any interest beyond a

> one-liner or two. I was somewhat disappointed, as I rarely ask for help

> in this group, as most of my challenges cannot be resolved here.

>

> However, I am trying again as several of the regular participants here

> are very good at analyzing social dynamics where AS is a factor, without

> personalizing issues and losing their cool. In my experience, this is

> not the norm in most AS forums, where hypersensitivity seems to rule the

> day and NTs are often blamed for every misfortune that could possibly

> befall an Aspie.

>

> Thus, I wouldn't dream of sharing this elsewhere in the AS community, as

> even the slightest hint of criticism with respect to AS traits and

> behavior is likely to be perceived as a " red flag " that serves as a

> provocation to every thin-skinned charging bull in the land. Thereby

> derailing the topic and creating a whole lot of conflict that I just

> don't need in my life right now.

>

> So, in the AS world, you folks are all I have.

>

> To reiterate the situation....

>

> For the last few years, I have been sharing articles of interest to the

> AS community with a particular forum in the hopes of generating some

> traffic, as the group has been crippling along for some time now. Where

> at one time the active membership included highly articulate folks who

> understood how to disagree without being disagreeable, those folks have

> mostly fallen silent, or left the forum entirely.

[ snip - for brevity ]

>

> Please don't dismiss me by suggesting that I just quit this

> dysfunctional group where adult babies rule the day. I already know

> that I should have stopped throwing pearls before swine a long time ago.

NOT being dismissive, CJ - just and only practical...

For your own health, mental or/and otherwise, you *must* quit that forum.

What good are you doing for anyone, *yourself* especially, by staying??

>

> Right now, my primary concern is the impact that the bullying is having

> on my emotional health, mostly due to my awareness of being alone in the

> world to fend for myself in so many others ways. The bullying is yet

> another reminder that so few people are willing to step up and openly

> support me, instead of taking the easy route and allowing me to get

> thrown under a bus by those who yell the loudest. That my experience is

> likely to be invalidated by those who prefer to believe that Aspies are

> not capable of the type of behaviors I describe.is the loneliest feeling

> of all.

A lesson I had to learn the hard way: Pick the battles you might be

able to win. *Walk away from the others*.

There are interesting corollaries to that; some arguable. We could talk

about them.

>

> I am rapidly coming to the point where I am beginning to avoid and

> mistrust Aspies who are not known and 'safe' to me. To me, the AS

> community has become a dangerous place where I have come to feel

> regarded as an " outsider " and an enemy because I am often perceived as

> " too high functioning " to be considered " one of us " .

We could meet - you and I - over coffee. You're not so far away.

- Bill, AS and no threat to anyone.

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

Hello CJ

Firstly, your wisdom and approach to support on THIS forum has been much appreciated by myself, and I am pretty sure, looking at some of the responses from others, I am not alone in that.

That said, it doesnt mean that we always agree here, as we know, there is a healthy attitude here on Aspires to voicing one's opinions, and being open to hearing one another's views. You are right, the moderation is the key to that - and as , and also Helen, do such a fair job of allowing us to opine without feeling oppressed, but also making us feel safe from 'trolls' or manipulators, we are fortunate to be able to feel secure here.

I know that Ian writes more formally than he speaks, so that when he is on a forum he puts people's backs up because he reacts straight away and doesnt put himself in the readers' shoes. He also dwells on their replies very acutely, so the irony is that he puts his swift reaction down on paper (so to speak) and doesnt think that others will then nitpick that over - so his bullish words, maybe not meant for harm, come across as being harsh and unmitigating. He is aware of this and now he leaves his posts for a few hours then goes back to them and edits. I will say, he isnt on any AS forums. He chose not to be. He says he couldnt bear to be in conflict with another AS and he feels he will be because he cannot take criticism, and if its a fellow 'comrade in arms' he would take it very badly. His forums are hobbyist ones, which makes it interesting as many of the train modellers he posts to are AS

too.

I also belong to a couple of forums to do with subjects and work matters - and there have been ripples, then waves, then great big tsunamis, from people who dont like another person's words, or who 'hogs' the limelight, or has some form of writers' Munchhausen which means they have to repeat, affirm, be part of, whatever anybody else writes.

I have had to shut down one of my own work inhouse forums, because one of the members caused mayhem throughout the threads, sharing inappropriately, always replying to everyone's posts and hitting on the weaker ones, and just by being a presence on the site, stopped it working effectively because the good ones stopped posting, and they left altogether. I restarted the forum in such a way where it was deeply moderated, and headed Munchhausen off at the pass. An example: someone posted about their child with a long term condition. Suddenly, Munch's child had the SAME symptoms etc. The last time she posted before I changed the set up, someone else was in hospital having their bunions reduced by an operation (ouch) and instead of commiserating, offering to do shopping or childcare, Munch said, I have bunions too. Now, do they grow overnight???

I guess what I am trying to say is, as an NT being part of forums elsewhere, you will often encounter semi-trolls who, not even aware of their impacts, go blissfully into everything and everyone's lives and mess up. I think, from what you have said, you have acted nobly to help and be tolerant of what the other posters do - and it also comes across that you have helped others, by the fact that some people have noted your hard work. Perhaps the chief protaganist is jealous, or overwhelmed by your prowess? You post very articulate and thoughtful subjects and are always honest. So whether one agrees or not, your approach to being a collaborative and caring part of this forum, is always done with heart and soul.

Looking at Ian's approach and how he has learned not to rush in, perhaps with hindsight a lot of those who are gathering in your other forum, should think twice three times before reacting. From the sounds of it, a lot of your other forum posters are like that, and dont wish to be given information or have their eyes opened, or even be different in their ways. They like the hot stuff. They crave to have what is called in Scotland a 'greetin' meetin' - (greeting in Scotland means to cry and moan). Its a habit forming exercise, moaning, whinging and nagging - and its meant to harmless and benign, yet its so unproductive, and damaging, time wasting stuff. I find there are AS people who love that. Ian tends to moan and 'greet' because he feels very hard done by, by NT's. Your other forum sounds as if it has a still pool of circling 'greeters' who dont wish to be anything other than that.

I asked Ian if he would ever thrive in such a forum, and he said, no, he would enjoy it to start with (NT bashing) but that he would then find it repetitive and start bashing the bashers. He admits it would amuse him but he also knows its wrong. He isnt even prepared to post here because he feels he isnt a good forum person, he is too impatient and he finds it hard to see another point of view - because he is RIGHT all the time (just as you said, CJ - this is the nub of their problems?)

So here is the crunch... and you probably expected to me to say this.... you dont need these people in your life. You have done your best. You havent failed, you have hit a bufferstop that is happy to be a bufferstop. I expect you will be missed by those who appreciated you, but then again, they dont have to stay on that forum either, and they havent exactly helped you to overcome the issues there. You posted good stuff and it fell on fallow ground. Just get your coat and go.

Just quietly leave for now, and let them get on with their still pool circling, and keep yourself to the productive stuff - here!? You cannot change their world as such, but you have given it a darn good go, well done you! They will remember you.

Rest and be thankful (another ish one).

Judy B, Scotland

From Judy Barrow

To: aspires-relationships Sent: Monday, 23 July 2012, 8:26Subject: Re: I need some help (LONG)

CJ

I've dealt with abusive people in the 'here and now', both AS and not. For the sake of your health and sanity, walk away. There is nothing you can say that will get through to these people. Everything you have said shows that they are not interested in reality. Thus walking away is the only way to to tend to your own emotional health. The impact from them bullying you won't go away because you stay there where they can still bully you.

The impact on you will start to dissipate as soon as you are not longer in their presense and no longer being abused. Then over time you will start to see it with more clarity and will heal more and more as you realize even more than you do right now, how silly those people really are.

I'm attempting here to not just dismiss as you asked. But honestly, everything you wrote screams "Walk Away" in my gut.

I kind of sense though that you have a larger issue that is connected to this that is what you really want help with... ? But if so... I'm missing it...

Jennie AS

I need some help (LONG)

Please don't dismiss me by suggesting that I just quit this dysfunctional group where adult babies rule the day. I already know that I should have stopped throwing pearls before swine a long time ago.Right now, my primary concern is the impact that the bullying is having on my emotional health, mostly due to my awareness of being alone in the world to fend for myself in so many others ways. The bullying is yet another reminder that so few people are willing to step up and openly support me, instead of taking the easy route and allowing me to get thrown under a bus by those who yell the loudest. That my experience is likely to be invalidated by those who prefer to believe that Aspies are not capable of the type of behaviors I describe.is the loneliest feeling of all.I am rapidly coming to the point where I am beginning to avoid and mistrust Aspies who are not known and 'safe' to me. To

me, the AS community has become a dangerous place where I have come to feel regarded as an "outsider" and an enemy because I am often perceived as "too high functioning" to be considered "one of us".Best,~CJ

[Guest guest]

I need some help (LONG)

 

I debated about sharing this topic again, as I made a reference to the

situation last week and it didn't seem to generate any interest beyond a

one-liner or two. I was somewhat disappointed, as I rarely ask for help

in this group, as most of my challenges cannot be resolved here.

------------

Hi CJ,

I didn't realize that this was so troubling to you, or I would have commented on

your earlier post. But I too will tell you advice you don't necessarily want to

hear -- but, my friend, you would be the first to give this advice to someone

else. Because it is good advice. You need to get out of there. You can do it

with a letter if you feel compelled, your final words -- or you can, if your

self control is great, just go.

The larger issue seems to be that you have, somehow, invested this group with

greater importance than it deserves, and awarded it some sort of control over

your sense of well being and trust. That would be sort of like being in a

relationship with someone who is so damaging for your self esteem and not being

willing or feeling able to get out of it. Here, at least, it is only a

dysfunctional group of persons -- who, self proclaimed AS or not, may have

many, many other mental health issues. Look at how many people our moderators

have asked to leave over the years because they had serious issues. It sounds

to me like all of those folks ended up in your other group!

They are most certainly not worth your time, and they most certainly DO NOT

reflect upon your self worth, nor should you measure them as a yardstick of

trust for AS persons. I would simply regard them as a speedbump in the stream

of life... and personally, speedbump or not, I'd happily drive over them 60 mph

to get away.

If you think about it, this is all exactly the advice you'd be giving others.

Why? Because you are smart, and it's good advice. These folks do not have

power over you. Stay here in the " safe waters " and leave the other pool for the

crazy sharks to stew in. Sadly, they probably don't have a lot of other options

besides that group... fortunately, you do.

Best,

[Guest guest]

Hi CJ,

first of all, please know that the first time you posted about this situation,

folks were not ignoring you. It's summer, many are away or like myself, outside.

One or two commented and the comments seemed sufficient so I left it at that as

I too am trying to make the best of a glorious but all too short summer season

I really liked what everyone else has said on this topic, and I *love* 's

story, so I won't repeat, I'll just say " what they said! "

I will say this: When I first learned about the existence of AS going on 15

years ago now, I was excited! I was like, wow, this is amazing, this is like the

keys to the treasure chest, this explains everything! I assumed that others

would be equally interested and excited about it, especially relatives.

Well, I could not have been more wrong.

I need not explain the typical reactions and the denial process as I am sure

everyone here has experienced it from family members, friends, acquaintances and

associates, and *especially* " professionals. "

So early on, I reconciled myself to the fact that although to me this knowledge

was game changing and could solve a lot of people's problems, this knowledge was

given to me, and seemingly me alone, to help me understand what's important to

me.

Three years after my self discovery I joined a (now-defunct) group and met

Newland there and I joined her new forum late that year. And here we still are,

more than a decade later. For many reasons, 's forum attracts *intelligent*

people on both sides of the spectrum. I have long since divested myself of the

time and energy of following those other groups for many of the reasons you

cite. Please know that your bad experience doesn't just happen on Asperger

forums, but everywhere. Some folks just don't have lives, just a virtual one

(one hates to imagine the state of their physical health..) and gads, they just

run off at the mouth and debate endlessly. I ignore certain posters and read

those who (like yourself) post informative articles.

CJ, I like the articles and information that you (and others) post here (haven't

heard from Anoush for awhile, hope she's still here.) My philosophy was always,

" if the shoe fits, wear it, if it doesn't, don't buy the shoe. " But there will

always be those who would not even allow you to see the shoe if *they* don't

like it, and that's true for both AS and NT. Ignore 'em. Or even better, unsub

from those groups.

best regards,

Helen