Mold removed from school, but experts say danger lingers

[Guest guest]

Mold removed from school, but experts say danger lingers

Daytona Beach News-Journal - Daytona Beach,FL*

By LINDA TRIMBLE

Education Writer

http://www.newsjournalonline.com/NewsJournalOnline/News/Local/newEAST

01032208.htm

DAYTONA BEACH -- Teachers and students will start moving back into a

renovated building at Longstreet Elementary on Monday, two months

after some teachers complained their classrooms were making them

sick.

Moldy carpet has since been replaced with vinyl tile, and the four

classrooms have undergone repeated inspections and cleaning, which

school facilities director Pat Drago believes make them safe for

occupancy.

But the two teachers and the guidance counselor who earlier

complained of symptoms ranging from eye and throat irritation to

mental confusion aren't so sure. And some experts on mold-

contaminated buildings contacted by The Daytona Beach News-Journal

share their concerns.

One teacher, Blackburn, said her doctor advised her not to

move her class back into the room after reviewing lab reports from

indoor air tests commissioned by the school district and a Tampa

consultant's inspection.

Blackburn and her class -- which has been meeting in a computer lab

since mid-January -- will finish out the school year in a portable

classroom at Longstreet. She and her husband, Longstreet guidance

counselor Bill Archer, were already planning to retire in June.

Another teacher, Judi Shubert, is waiting for results of additional

medical tests before deciding whether to stay in the portable where

her class is meeting now or move back into the renovated building.

Longstreet Principal Pete Tucker said Friday one class is scheduled

to move back into renovated building Monday, with another slated to

return when classes resume after Spring Break on April 7.

The building in question underwent major renovations, including

replacement of exterior walls and windows, starting last spring.

Teachers began moving back in Jan. 11. Blackburn, Shubert and

Archer, who helped with the move, complained of strong odors and

sought medical attention for eye and throat irritation after

spending a few days in the building.

They're continuing to seek workers' compensation coverage for

medical expenses, which school district officials earlier denied.

The other two teachers in the renovated building made no official

complaints, but their classes were relocated to portables after

indoor air tests showed mold spores in the air.A second set of air

tests in early February showed higher spore counts in two rooms --

including Blackburn's -- and lower counts in the other two.

But a Tampa consultant who inspected the building at the same time

said such air tests often lead to contradictory conclusions because

there are no standardized methods for sample collection or analysis.

" An informed inspection consisting primarily of observations is more

reliable, offering verification that environmental surfaces,

contents and furnishings and ventilation system components of

renovated indoor spaces are clean and free of residual project-

related dust/debris prior to allowing occupancy, " consultant Rene

Salazar reported.

Drago said the decision to move back into the renovated building was

based on that report and completion of some additional repairs

recommended by Salazar and the Volusia County Health Department.

But two experts who reviewed the Longstreet reports at the request

of The Daytona Beach News-Journal said the February air samples

indicated there were still mold problems in the renovated classrooms.

" The mold spores have to come from somewhere. They don't

spontaneously appear, " said Straus, a professor of

microbiology and immunology at Texas Tech University.

" This building has not been investigated properly by a real expert, "

said ville toxicologist Lipsey, a former University

of Florida professor. " I've been investigating schools for 35 years.

I would not put my child (that) building. "

Both suggested more tests are needed to determine if mold could be

growing behind the classroom walls. But Drago said there were no

signs of moisture intrusion in the walls detected during

construction or from drilling into a wall behind a classroom sink

that would warrant such tests.

She said Salazar and the Health Department representative inspected

the building, while Straus and Lipsey have not.

linda.trimble@...

[Guest guest]

Both Dr. Straus and Dr. Lipsey are correct. However, there are few other points

that should be made. First, people spend slightly over 90 % of their time

indoors. Therefore, indoor concentrations of microbes and VOCs are far more

important than are outdoor concentrations. Outdoor concentrations only

contribute to about 10 % of the daily exposure. Second, a team of scientist

lead by Dr. Wallace of the EPA studied the breath composition of VOCs in people

and related the exhaled VOCs to their environmental exposure. The TEAM studies

determined that people are the air they breath. In other word, you walk into a

dry cleaning establishment and you inhale and exhale dry cleaning chemicals.

Also, individuals exhaled the composition of air that they breathed in indoor

evironments. Thus, what Dr. Straus states is very important. The types of

molds and bacteria indoors must be compared to the same types outdoors. When

one does this, Stachyborys, certain species of Aspergillus and Penicillium, as

well as certain bacteria are in the indoor environment vs the outdoor

environment. Who ever started the fallacy of indoor vs outdoor mold spore

counts should be locked up in a moldy indoor environment. Jack D. Thrasher,

Ph.D.

[Guest guest]

Good point, Dr. Thrasher, but we must keep foremost in our discussion the

most important issues are : the chronic exposure to toxic mold in schools of

the children and teachers and the damage to their immune systems that build

up over time making them more and more susceptible to these molds and

mycotoxins...............as well as the gram negative bacteria ( and all of

them

produce even more toxic endotoxins. )

I am currently working on school mold poisoning cases in Tenn, Calif,

Florida, South Carolina and Louisiana. Proper mold testing ( that I do ) as

opposed to an air sample, better know as a five minute snapshot of an empty

room

after the students have left the building and the spores have settled, makes

all the difference in determining which molds and bacteria the students and

staff are being exposed to every day and up to eight hours a day. Schools do

not have the excess funds to hire proper mold experts, so they usually hire a

local person who may not know how to inspect and sample schools properly, ie

the cool pipes above the false ceiling tiles that are often covered in black

mold causing upper respiratory symptoms in teachers and students. I have seen

this phenomenon over the last 36 years of inspecting schools and testifying

in courts nationwide.

Dr. L. Lipsey ( 904 ) 398 - 2168 _www.richardlipsey.com_

(http://www.richardlipsey.com/)

550 Water St, #1230, ville, FL 32202

Toxicologist and former Univ. Florida professor &

Adj Prof, Univ. N. FL, OSHA HazMat certification,

Fla. Comm. College Jax, Institute of Occ. Safety & Health, Chairman,

Clinical Tox Advisory Comm, Florida Poison Info Center, Jax.

Society of Toxicology & American College of Toxicology

(http://www.richardlipsey.com/)

**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL

Home.

(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030\

000000001)

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. Lipsey - I realize you are in this business a long time but I

have to share with you the real person to help in the classroom

testing is the teacher. It is the teacher who's classroom is his/her

" home away from home " and knows where the knooks and crannies are that

are harboring mold covered books, paper reams, easel newsprint covered

in mold.

It has become very insulting to me, and other teachers, that pseudo

experts have been springing up who purport to be knowledgeable

about schools and mold and have never spent an HOUR in the classroom

in front of a class of kids.

For years, teachers have asked architects and others to allow them to

be part of the process of building schools which are user friendly (

with bathrooms in the class, or closets which hold more than a loaf of

bread).

No tester can rely on information gained when no one is present. It is

true that you can go in an do a cursory examination, but only the

" resident " of the classroom can point out where the real hot spots

are. Teachers get blamed when there is a problem. In my case, a

bogus report was written up about a rug. (It was brand new, paid for

by the school system and " antimicrobial. " - the report read that I

" brought it in from home. "

I hope I don't have an angry tone, but I am angry. We have millions

of schoolkids as sitting ducks in classrooms, and teachers who live

with them for 35 hours a week, and who feel discomfort which is not

imagined, from a moldy classroom, and should be the first person with

the " testers " and should be the 1st line of defense, because they are,

for the children. It is the anger and rage as a teacher, in a moldy

classroom, which drove me to get a law degree. No teacher should have

to do that. I know you are one of the good guys in this battle. But,

please remember, as well as other readers here, that the one who

" walks the walk " not " talks the talk " and lives with the kids knows

the classroom and the hidden dangers best.

We see the dust mites flying out of packs of old paper; We see the

old LP's dust jackets blackening with mold. We see the books in boxes

next to an outside wall becoming moldy due to lack of direct sunglight

to the classroom.

Now, we have pseudo-experts who think they know about school mold.

They may know mold in another context, but not with the " intimacy " a

teacher has. Thanks.

>

> Good point, Dr. Thrasher, but we must keep foremost in our

discussion the

> most important issues are : the chronic exposure to toxic mold in

schools of

> the children and teachers and the damage to their immune systems

that build

> up over time making them more and more susceptible to these molds and

> mycotoxins...............as well as the gram negative bacteria ( and

all of them

> produce even more toxic endotoxins. )

>

> I am currently working on school mold poisoning cases in Tenn,

Calif,

> Florida, South Carolina and Louisiana. Proper mold testing ( that I

do ) as

> opposed to an air sample, better know as a five minute snapshot of

an empty room

> after the students have left the building and the spores have

settled, makes

> all the difference in determining which molds and bacteria the

students and

> staff are being exposed to every day and up to eight hours a day.

Schools do

> not have the excess funds to hire proper mold experts, so they

usually hire a

> local person who may not know how to inspect and sample schools

properly, ie

> the cool pipes above the false ceiling tiles that are often covered

in black

> mold causing upper respiratory symptoms in teachers and students. I

have seen

> this phenomenon over the last 36 years of inspecting schools and

testifying

> in courts nationwide.

>

> Dr. L. Lipsey ( 904 ) 398 - 2168 _www.richardlipsey.com_

> (http://www.richardlipsey.com/)

> 550 Water St, #1230, ville, FL 32202

> Toxicologist and former Univ. Florida professor &

> Adj Prof, Univ. N. FL, OSHA HazMat certification,

> Fla. Comm. College Jax, Institute of Occ. Safety & Health, Chairman,

> Clinical Tox Advisory Comm, Florida Poison Info Center, Jax.

> Society of Toxicology & American College of Toxicology

> (http://www.richardlipsey.com/)

>

>

>

> **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video

on AOL

> Home.

>

(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030\

000000001)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Ginloi,

I'm sorry you seem to be angry with Dr. Lipsey. I would like to tell

you of my experience with Dr. Lipsey. This gentleman has been

nothing but kind first and foremost to me and my family, secondly he

has had the safety and health of the students and most definitely the

teachers in the case of my son's high school mold contamination. He

is as down-to-earth and easy to talk with as your brother or father

would be. Dr. Lipsey has listened to what I have had to say, what

students have told him and what teachers have told him about the mold

in this particular school. In fact, in the first paragraph of Dr.

Lipsey's response to Dr. Thrasher on the website, he states concern

for the children and the teachers. That is how I interpreted it.

Did you not? He does know his science and his expertise. He's

certainly proven that to me. Most of all, I'd just like to have it

be known to the group, Dr. Lipsey is concerned for the teachers and

for the students; the director of schools doesn't care, the

administration does not and, by the way, many teachers in this school

are not. He is fighting for my child, all the students and he is

fighting for the teachers in this particular school. He has listened

to these teachers and has proven them right at what they have said.

I know how you feel but from a parent's perspective about a school's

indoor air and how administration thinks we are fools. We know we

are not! We know science is proving we are right and we pray the

medical world will catch up with what is happening to people. I am

in the battle of my life. Thank God, this battle that has been so

financially, emotionally and physically costly to me and my husband,

has been worth it. You see, because I have battled, if nothing else

comes out of this fight we are in, I know it has saved our son's

life. So keep fighting for your lives people. Don't give up!! God

Bless you all.

JJ

>

> Dear Dr. Lipsey - I realize you are in this business a long time

but I

> have to share with you the real person to help in the classroom

> testing is the teacher. It is the teacher who's classroom is

his/her

> " home away from home " and knows where the knooks and crannies are

that

> are harboring mold covered books, paper reams, easel newsprint

covered

> in mold.

>

> It has become very insulting to me, and other teachers, that pseudo

> experts have been springing up who purport to be knowledgeable

> about schools and mold and have never spent an HOUR in the classroom

> in front of a class of kids.

>

> For years, teachers have asked architects and others to allow them

to

> be part of the process of building schools which are user friendly (

> with bathrooms in the class, or closets which hold more than a loaf

of

> bread).

>

> No tester can rely on information gained when no one is present. It

is

> true that you can go in an do a cursory examination, but only the

> " resident " of the classroom can point out where the real hot spots

> are. Teachers get blamed when there is a problem. In my case, a

> bogus report was written up about a rug. (It was brand new, paid for

> by the school system and " antimicrobial. " - the report read that I

> " brought it in from home. "

>

> I hope I don't have an angry tone, but I am angry. We have millions

> of schoolkids as sitting ducks in classrooms, and teachers who live

> with them for 35 hours a week, and who feel discomfort which is not

> imagined, from a moldy classroom, and should be the first person

with

> the " testers " and should be the 1st line of defense, because they

are,

> for the children. It is the anger and rage as a teacher, in a moldy

> classroom, which drove me to get a law degree. No teacher should

have

> to do that. I know you are one of the good guys in this battle.

But,

> please remember, as well as other readers here, that the one who

> " walks the walk " not " talks the talk " and lives with the kids knows

> the classroom and the hidden dangers best.

>

> We see the dust mites flying out of packs of old paper; We see the

> old LP's dust jackets blackening with mold. We see the books in

boxes

> next to an outside wall becoming moldy due to lack of direct

sunglight

> to the classroom.

>

> Now, we have pseudo-experts who think they know about school mold.

> They may know mold in another context, but not with the " intimacy " a

> teacher has. Thanks.