Re: aluminum and baking powder

[Guest guest]

Hi steve,

 

I respect and appreciate your position but you also have not given any evidence

to support your claims.

I for one certainly do not trust the integrity of government regulatory bodies

for a whole host of reasons. To err on the side of caution is wise in this

matter. Lets face it, we could have had thousands of products as consumers which

could have contributed to our health and well being but we are told that all the

chemicals, additives, preservatives, pestacides etc in the food chain are safe

for human consumption. The same is true for household toiletries and cleaning

products. We are living in a chemical warfare zone. The rich vested interest

groups are the only winners. This forum is dedicated to DMSO which is also

banned as a form of treatment even though scientifically it is proven to be very

effective. The approval of DMSO as a form of medical treatment threatens the

existence of numerous ineffective drugs promoted by the pharmaceutical

companies. 

 

Regards

Tauqir

To: DimethylSulfoxide-DMSO

Sent: Sunday, 27 May 2012, 23:29

Subject: aluminum and baking powder

 

I was reading some of the posts and the claims that 'sodium' means that there is

aluminum salts in something sounds like BS to me.        I do know that

Bob's Red Mill baking powder says or used to say that it was 'aluminum free' and

from that seemingly innocuous statement people started to assume this MUST mean

that the other brands DO have aluminum.   But I think that's BS.

Years ago, and I do mean many years ago.  One of the tuna companies started

labeling their tuna stating that it was guaranteed NOT to turn red in the can. 

Well, most tuna companies sold tuna that had a reddish hue.    Naturally, the

white tuna did NOT turn reddish in the can.  Just as the red tuna did not turn

white in the can.  Very clever marketing.  In this way, they implied there was

something wrong with reddish tuna when it is merely a different breed of

tuna.   The government had to step in finally as terrified shoppers avoided

the red tuna in droves almost driving those companies into bankruptcy.  

Is this the same sort of thing?    I am very suspicious of statements that

aluminum salts are what keeps things from clumping.       For example,

powdered sugar doesn't clump because they add corn starch to it, an effective

anti-clumping agent.    Since powdered sugar doesn't clump would this guy

claim it must have aluminum in it?

I'm not going to buy the aluminum claims unless someone has some evidence that

is more convincing that innuendo or some un-named chemist has discovered

something.  Give me some facts (as opposed to claims and opinions) and I'll

consider it.

As far as Arm and Hammer baking soda goes, as far as I'm concerned it has no

aluminum products in it.  A & H has been asked numerous times thanks to the

scare tactics that have been so effective, and they confirm that there is no

aluminum in their product.   I do not know how to conduct a test to confirm it

independently, but that is a matter for someone who has that skill or

knowledge. 

My son's a chemist, I should ask him.

Steve

[Guest guest]

It puzzled me too (I didn't notice you had made any " claims " ) It was only

recently that I contemplated the possibility of aluminium trespassing out of

someone's underarm deodorant into my baking powder - and then I also note

that people do not know the difference between Backing POWDER and Baking

SODA ...... it's this slow & inevitable merging of US with the rest of the

world that throws these queries at us ...... note, here in Melbourne

Australia SOME companies are starting to put " Aluminium Free " on their

Baking Powder products - but then they've probably been bought out by some

US company and need to clarify that? Tim Tams, Anzacs, Vegemite, now Baking

Powder? Is nothing sacred?

Jane

aluminum and baking powder

I was reading some of the posts and the claims that 'sodium' means that

there is aluminum salts in something sounds like BS to me. I do know that

Bob's Red Mill baking powder says or used to say that it was 'aluminum free'

and from that seemingly innocuous statement people started to assume this

MUST mean that the other brands DO have aluminum. But I think that's BS.

Years ago, and I do mean many years ago. One of the tuna companies started

labeling their tuna stating that it was guaranteed NOT to turn red in the

can. Well, most tuna companies sold tuna that had a reddish hue. Naturally,

the white tuna did NOT turn reddish in the can. Just as the red tuna did not

turn white in the can. Very clever marketing. In this way, they implied

there was something wrong with reddish tuna when it is merely a different

breed of tuna. The government had to step in finally as terrified shoppers

avoided the red tuna in droves almost driving those companies into

bankruptcy.

Is this the same sort of thing? I am very suspicious of statements that

aluminum salts are what keeps things from clumping. For example, powdered

sugar doesn't clump because they add corn starch to it, an effective

anti-clumping agent. Since powdered sugar doesn't clump would this guy claim

it must have aluminum in it?

I'm not going to buy the aluminum claims unless someone has some evidence

that is more convincing that innuendo or some un-named chemist has

discovered something. Give me some facts (as opposed to claims and opinions)

and I'll consider it.

As far as Arm and Hammer baking soda goes, as far as I'm concerned it has no

aluminum products in it. A & H has been asked numerous times thanks to the

scare tactics that have been so effective, and they confirm that there is no

aluminum in their product. I do not know how to conduct a test to confirm it

independently, but that is a matter for someone who has that skill or

knowledge.

My son's a chemist, I should ask him.

Steve

[Guest guest]

Sigh BAKING not backing Powder

aluminum and baking powder

>

>

> I was reading some of the posts and the claims that 'sodium' means that

> there is aluminum salts in something sounds like BS to me. I do know that

> Bob's Red Mill baking powder says or used to say that it was 'aluminum

> free'

> and from that seemingly innocuous statement people started to assume this

> MUST mean that the other brands DO have aluminum. But I think that's BS.

>

> Years ago, and I do mean many years ago. One of the tuna companies started

> labeling their tuna stating that it was guaranteed NOT to turn red in the

> can. Well, most tuna companies sold tuna that had a reddish hue.

> Naturally,

> the white tuna did NOT turn reddish in the can. Just as the red tuna did

> not

> turn white in the can. Very clever marketing. In this way, they implied

> there was something wrong with reddish tuna when it is merely a different

> breed of tuna. The government had to step in finally as terrified shoppers

> avoided the red tuna in droves almost driving those companies into

> bankruptcy.

>

> Is this the same sort of thing? I am very suspicious of statements that

> aluminum salts are what keeps things from clumping. For example, powdered

> sugar doesn't clump because they add corn starch to it, an effective

> anti-clumping agent. Since powdered sugar doesn't clump would this guy

> claim

> it must have aluminum in it?

>

> I'm not going to buy the aluminum claims unless someone has some evidence

> that is more convincing that innuendo or some un-named chemist has

> discovered something. Give me some facts (as opposed to claims and

> opinions)

> and I'll consider it.

>

> As far as Arm and Hammer baking soda goes, as far as I'm concerned it has

> no

> aluminum products in it. A & H has been asked numerous times thanks to the

> scare tactics that have been so effective, and they confirm that there is

> no

> aluminum in their product. I do not know how to conduct a test to confirm

> it

> independently, but that is a matter for someone who has that skill or

> knowledge.

>

> My son's a chemist, I should ask him.

>

> Steve

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

BS.........BP........Maybe we need to do like the herb people with their

latin and only use official names. It does seem to work.

The Food Lab: Baking Powder vs. Baking Soda | Serious Eats

http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/06/what-is-the-difference-between-baking-powder-\

and-baking-soda-in-pancakes.htmlcopied

by slp Mon May 28 2012 09:33:49 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)

*Baking soda* is sodium bicarbonate. It reacts with acids immediately upon

contact to produce carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide gets trapped within

batters and expands upon baking, leavening your quickbreads. Because it

reacts immediately, quickbreads made with baking soda must be cooked

immediately after mixing. Because of its alkalinity, it can also hasten

browning reactions, adding color (and thus flavor) to things like pancakes,

cookies, and muffins.

*Baking powder* is sodium bicarbonate mixed with a powdered acid and a

starch. It does not require an external acid in order to activate. Most

baking powders are " double acting, " meaning they produce carbon dioxide

once upon coming in contact with moisture, then again after heating.

Because of this, baking powder-leavened goods are generally lighter and

fluffier than those that rely on baking soda alone. This doesn't mean that

you can let a baking powder batter just sit around expecting the second

batch of bubbles to do all the leavening for you—the initial reaction is

vitally important to the texture of your baked goods.

.........................................................

KitchenSavvy: Baking Soda vs. Baking Powder

http://kitchensavvy.typepad.com/journal/2005/01/baking_soda_vs_.html copied

by slp Mon May 28 2012 09:34:46 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)

The chemical in baking soda is *bicarbonate of soda* (NaHCO3). When

combined with an acidic ingredient, such as vinegar or the lactic acid in

buttermilk, baking soda releases carbon dioxide which forms into bubbles in

the food. When heated, these bubbles then expand and help to rise or

lighten the final product.

Baking powder is a mixture of baking soda and an acid, in powdered form,

that combine in liquid to create the same reaction. There are three

general types of baking powder -- fast-acting, slow-acting and

double-acting; the most commonly available being double-acting.

Double-acting baking powder uses two different acids, one of which reacts

at room temperature and the other only during the baking, at higher

temperatures. The first reaction helps to form the initial bubbles that

are trapped in the batter. As the food cooks, the material around these

bubbles starts to set. Carbon dioxide from the second reaction is better

trapped within the bubbles and gives a better lift.

Fast-acting baking powder uses only an acid that reacts immediately, while

slow-acting contains only the acid that reacts under heat. All three forms

will also contain some cornstarch to help keep the mixture dry before use.

.........................................................

Is salt caking really a big problem, or are anti-caking agents just cheaper

than salt? - Cooking

http://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/15849/is-salt-caking-really-a-big-pro\

blem-or-are-anti-caking-agents-just-cheaper-thancopied

by slp Mon May 28 2012 09:57:55 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)

The FDA, and most other international food agencies, limit the amount of

anti-caking agent to 2% by weight (except in baking *powder*).

.....................................

Leavening,Anti-caking Agents

http://www.foodchem.cn/Leavening---Anti-caking-Agents.htm copied by slp Mon

May 28 2012 09:50:37 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)

Ammonium bicarbonate was used more often prior to the eighteenth century

with the inventions of other leavening agents, baking soda and baking

powder.

.................................................................................\

...........................

Difference Between Baking Powder and Baking Soda

http://chemistry.about.com/cs/foodchemistry/f/blbaking.htm copied by slp

Mon May 28 2012 09:37:01 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)

*Baking Soda*

Baking soda is pure sodium

bicarbonate<http://chemistry.about.com/od/factsstructures/ig/Chemical-Structures\

---S/Sodium-Bicarbonate.htm>.

When baking soda is combined with moisture and an acidic ingredient (e.g.,

yogurt, chocolate, buttermilk, honey), the resulting chemical reaction

produces bubbles of carbon

dioxide<http://chemistry.about.com/od/factsstructures/ig/Chemical-Structures---C\

/Carbon-Dioxide.-12A.htm>that

expand under oven temperatures, causing baked goods to rise. The

reaction begins immediately upon mixing the ingredients, so you need to

bake recipes which call for baking soda immediately, or else they will fall

flat!

*Baking Powder*

Baking powder contains sodium bicarbonate, but it includes the acidifying

agent already (cream of

tartar<http://chemistry.about.com/od/foodcookingchemistry/a/Cream-Of-Tartar.htm>\

),

and also a drying agent (usually starch). Baking powder is available as

single-acting baking powder and as double-acting baking powder.

Single-acting powders are activated by moisture, so you must bake recipes

which include this product immediately after mixing. Double-acting powders

react in two phases and can stand for a while before baking. With

double-acting powder, some gas is released at room temperature when the

powder is added to dough, but the majority of the gas is released after the

temperature of the dough increases in the oven.

.......................................................

Bicarbonate of soda vs. Baking soda? - Ask Me Help Desk

http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/other-food-drink/bicarbonate-soda-vs-baking-soda-29\

1213.htmlcopied

by slp Mon May 28 2012 09:38:58 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)

In Australia, we only have bicarbonate of soda and baking powder. Baking

soda (Sodium bicarbonate) is the same as bicarbonate of soda. In the

United States, bicarbonate of soda, or sodium bicarbonate is called as

baking soda. It is an alkaline salt. Sodium bicarbonate is an alkaline

salt, while potassium bitartrate is an acid salt.

http://chemistry.about.com/cs/foodchemistry/f/blbaking.htm

http://culinaryarts.about.com/od/bakingdesserts/a/Baking-Soda-And-Baking-Powder.\

htm

http://aww.ninemsn.com.au/food/cookingtips/790073/baking-soda-bicarb-soda-baking\

-powder-whats-the-difference

.........................................................on to Anticaking

Agents

Anticaking Agents,Anti Caking Agents,Natural Anticaking Agents,Natural Anti

Caking Agents http://www.foodadditivesworld.com/anticaking-agents.htmlcopied

by slp Mon May 28 2012 09:47:08 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)

Manufactured

and Natural Anticaking Agents There are two types of anti caking agents-

manufactured or man-made and natural anticaking agents. Most of the

anti-caking agents are made from synthetic substances such as silicon

dioxide or magnesium and calcium stearates (solid saturated fatty acids.)

However, there are many ani caking agents that come from natural sources.

Some of the natural anticaking agents include kaolin (E559; talc (E553b);

and bentonite. Some anti caking agents manufacturers also produce organic

and hypoallergenic anti caking agents from such natural source as rice.

Man made anticaking agents are manufactured from chemicals and other

artificial substances like silicates, acids etc. Examples of manufactured

anti-caking agents include calcium silicate (E552), magnesium carbonate

(E504) and sodium aluminosilicate (E554) etc. Majority of anti-caking

agents are found with E numbers from 500 to 599. However, apart from the

list of E numbers anti caking agents, there are a few that fall into other

categories too like the acidity regulators (because they serve two

purposes.) Some of such anti caking agents having dual/ multiple purposes

include:

- *E421 -* Mannitol as it is also a texturising agent, a sweetening

agent, and anti-sticking agent as well as a humectant.

- *E460a -* Microcrystalline cellulose as is also a bulking agent,

binder and stabiliser </stabilisers.html>.

- *E460b -* Alpha cellulose as it is also a bulking agent, binder and

stabiliser.

List of Anti Caking Agents E numbers Following is the list of anti-caking

agents commonly used in foods and drinks.

- [image: Ammonium Chloride Anticaking Agent]

*Anticaking Agent E510*

*E341 -* Tricalcium Phosphate

- *E500 -* Sodium carbonate

- *E501 -* Potassium carbonate

- *E503 -* Ammonium carbonate

- *E504 -* Magnesium carbonate

- *E507 -* Hydrochloric acid

- *E508 -* Potassium chloride

- *E509 -* Calcium chloride

- *E510 -* Ammonium chloride

- *E511 -* Magnesium chloride

- *E512 -* Stannous chloride

- *E513 -* Sulphuric acid

- *E514 -* Sodium sulphates

- *E515 -* Potassium sulphate

- *E516 -* Calcium sulphate

- *E517 -* Ammonium sulphate

- *E518 -* Magnesium sulphate, Epsom salts

- *E519 -* Copper sulphate

- *E520 -* Aluminium sulphate

- *E521 -* Aluminium sodium sulphate

- *E522 -* Aluminium potassium sulphate

- *E523 -* Aluminium ammonium sulphate

- *E524 -* Sodium hydroxide

- *E525 -* Potassium hydroxide

- *E526 -* Calcium hydroxide

- *E527 -* Ammonium hydroxide

- *E528 -* Magnesium hydroxide

- *E529 -* Calcium oxide

- *E530 -* Magnesium oxide

- *E535 -* Sodium ferrocyanide

- *E536 -* Potassium ferrocyanide

- *E538 -* Calcium ferrocyanide

- *E540 -* Dicalcium diphosphate

- *E541 -* Sodium aluminium phosphate

- *E542 -* Bone phosphate, edible bone phosphate (derived from steaming

animal bones and used as anti-caking agent, emulsifier and source of

phosphorous in food supplements.)

- *E550 -* Sodium silicate

- *E551 -* Silicon dioxide

- *E552 -* Calcium silicate

- *E553(a) -* (i) Magnesium silicate and (ii) magnesium trisilicate

- *E553( -* Talc

- *E554 -* Sodium aluminium silicate

- *E555 -* Potassium aluminium silicate (Produced from several natural

minerals.)

- *E556 -* Aluminium calcium silicate (Produced from several natural

minerals.)

- *E558 -* Bentonite (A natural type of clay from volcanic origin. It is

a decolorising agent, filter medium, emulsifier </emulsifiers.html> and

anti-caking agent. Bentonite is used in pharmaceutical agents for external

use, edible fats and oils, sugar, wine.)

- *E559 -* Kaolin

- *E570 -* Stearic acid

- *E572 -* Magnesium stearate, calcium stearate

- *E574 -* Gluconic acid

- *E575 -* Glucono delta-lactone

- *E576 -* Sodium gluconate

- *E577 -* Potassium gluconate

- *E578 -* Calcium gluconate

- *E579 -* Ferrous gluconate

- *E585 -* Ferrous lactate

- *E900 -* Polydimethylsiloxane

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2001/anderson/anticakingagents.htm

http://www.innovadex.com/Food/Products/13009/Anti-caking-Agents

http://www.wikispices.com/food-anti-caking-agents.html

http://www.foodadditivesworld.com/anticaking-agents.html

http://www.foodchem.cn/Leavening---Anti-caking-Agents.htm

http://www.foodditive.com/additive/sodium-carbonates Very good tool

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=582.272\

7

On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 12:24 AM, Jane MacRoss

wrote:

> **

>

>

> Sigh BAKING not backing Powder

>

>

> aluminum and baking powder

> >

> >

> > I was reading some of the posts and the claims that 'sodium' means that

> > there is aluminum salts in something sounds like BS to me. I do know that

> > Bob's Red Mill baking powder says or used to say that it was 'aluminum

> > free'

> > and from that seemingly innocuous statement people started to assume this

> > MUST mean that the other brands DO have aluminum. But I think that's BS.

> >

> > Years ago, and I do mean many years ago. One of the tuna companies

> started

> > labeling their tuna stating that it was guaranteed NOT to turn red in the

> > can. Well, most tuna companies sold tuna that had a reddish hue.

> > Naturally,

> > the white tuna did NOT turn reddish in the can. Just as the red tuna did

> > not

> > turn white in the can. Very clever marketing. In this way, they implied

> > there was something wrong with reddish tuna when it is merely a different

> > breed of tuna. The government had to step in finally as terrified

> shoppers

> > avoided the red tuna in droves almost driving those companies into

> > bankruptcy.

> >

> > Is this the same sort of thing? I am very suspicious of statements that

> > aluminum salts are what keeps things from clumping. For example, powdered

> > sugar doesn't clump because they add corn starch to it, an effective

> > anti-clumping agent. Since powdered sugar doesn't clump would this guy

> > claim

> > it must have aluminum in it?

> >

> > I'm not going to buy the aluminum claims unless someone has some evidence

> > that is more convincing that innuendo or some un-named chemist has

> > discovered something. Give me some facts (as opposed to claims and

> > opinions)

> > and I'll consider it.

> >

> > As far as Arm and Hammer baking soda goes, as far as I'm concerned it

> has

> > no

> > aluminum products in it. A & H has been asked numerous times thanks to

> the

> > scare tactics that have been so effective, and they confirm that there

> is

> > no

> > aluminum in their product. I do not know how to conduct a test to

> confirm

> > it

> > independently, but that is a matter for someone who has that skill or

> > knowledge.

> >

> > My son's a chemist, I should ask him.

> >

> > Steve

> >

>

> Reply to

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[Guest guest]

Baking powder will dissolve in water to leave a murky white liquid.  If you

dissolve just a small amount (1/16 tsp) in an 8 oz. glass of water, it is just

clear enough to see through to the bottom of the glass.  Add household ammonia

to it and a white precipitate forms, and will not dissolve by adding more

ammonia.  This is an aluminum salt.  This happens because the aluminum sulfate

that is in baking powder is acidic after dissociating in water from the Sodium

ion.  A typical aluminum salt is NaAl(SO3)2 - Sodium Aluminum Sulfate.  In

water, it is Na+ and Al(SO3)2-, leaving the aluminum sulfate ion free to react

with ammonium hydroxide - NH4OH, or NH4+ and OH-.  So the whole reaction is

something like this: NaAl(SO3)2 + NH3 + H2O = NaOH(aq) + H4NAl(SO3)2(s), aqueous

Sodium Hydroxide and solid ammonium aluminum sulfate (commonly spread in poultry

farm litter to keep the pH balanced as well as deodorize the smell from all the

chicken urine).

Baking soda dissolves to clear, or nearly clear in water.  Add household ammonia

to it and you get the same nearly clear water, only it smells like ammonia.  The

reaction looks like this: NaHCO3(aq) + H2O + NH3(aq) = NaHCO3(aq) + H2O +

NH3(aq), or no reaction at all.

I tested Great Value brand baking powder that has sodium aluminum sulfate in it

by mixing 1/16 tsp in 8 oz. water and adding ammonia.  I got a small amount of

precipitate that landed at the bottom of the glass.  Next to it, I tested Arm

and Hammer baking soda by mixing the same 1/16 tsp in 8 oz. water and adding

ammonia. There was no reaction at all.

It is my conclusion that the ingredient listed on the A & H baking soda container

is the only ingredient present: NaHCO3 (Sodium Bicarbonate).  No aluminum salt

of any sort.

Please do not try this, or any other sort of chemical testing, for aluminum

salts at home.  You must understand any potential risks and reactions of the

combinations of chemicals you are prepared to make prior to mixing stuff

together.  Home chemistry is a good way to kill yourself, melt your lungs and

nasal passages, or end up with the whole world smelling like pool water for a

week.  I've ended up with one of those three results from using too much

muriatic acid to run a reaction - guess which one I got!

- Tim

    the infamous home chemist.

    B.S. Chemistry, ACS certified

________________________________

To: DimethylSulfoxide-DMSO

Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 6:29 PM

Subject: aluminum and baking powder

I was reading some of the posts and the claims that 'sodium' means that there is

aluminum salts in something sounds like BS to me.        I do know that Bob's

Red Mill baking powder says or used to say that it was 'aluminum free' and from

that seemingly innocuous statement people started to assume this MUST mean that

the other brands DO have aluminum.   But I think that's BS.

Years ago, and I do mean many years ago.  One of the tuna companies started

labeling their tuna stating that it was guaranteed NOT to turn red in the can. 

Well, most tuna companies sold tuna that had a reddish hue.    Naturally, the

white tuna did NOT turn reddish in the can.  Just as the red tuna did not turn

white in the can.  Very clever marketing.  In this way, they implied there was

something

wrong with reddish tuna when it is merely a different breed of tuna.   The

government had to step in finally as terrified shoppers avoided the red tuna in

droves almost driving those companies into bankruptcy.  

Is this the same sort of thing?    I am very suspicious of statements that

aluminum salts are what keeps things from clumping.       For example, powdered

sugar doesn't clump because they add corn starch to it, an effective

anti-clumping agent.    Since powdered sugar doesn't clump would this guy claim

it must have aluminum in it?

I'm not going to buy the aluminum claims unless someone has some evidence that

is more convincing that innuendo or some un-named chemist has discovered

something.  Give me some facts (as opposed to claims and opinions) and I'll

consider it.

As far as Arm and Hammer baking soda goes, as far as I'm concerned it has

no aluminum products in it.  A & H has been asked numerous times thanks to the

scare tactics that have been so effective, and they confirm that there is no

aluminum in their product.   I do not know how to conduct a test to confirm it

independently, but that is a matter for someone who has that skill or

knowledge. 

My son's a chemist, I should ask him.

Steve