Guest guest Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Hi , Hashimoto's thyroiditis is a chronic inflammatory autoimmune disease of the thyroid gland. The thyroid is a victim of the autoimmune system gone haywire. It is NOT a thyroid disease; the thyroid is the targeted victim and its eventually damaged in the majority of patients. Anti-Thyroid Peroxidase antibodies (aTPO) and anti-Thyroglobulin antibodies (aTG) DO NOT damage or destroy thyroid cells or our thyroid gland. And they definitely don't attack other organs! Even though these antibodies are known as the " markers for inflammation " - aTPO/aTG abs DON'T DESTROY the thyroid cells. These antibodies show that there is inflammation happening and they also can promote ~complement~ type inflammation by simply being there. aTPOabs are antibodies against the " free " peroxidase enzyme that has gotten outside of thyroid cells after damage and inflammation occur usually by the Killer T cells. The aTPOabs are actually cleaning up AFTER a thyroid cell that has ALREADY been damaged. Killer lymphocytes, T-cells (Th1) are what ATTACK and ~DEMISE~ thyroid cells in Hastimoto's Thyroiditis. Likewise, aTGabs are antibodies against the " free " thyroglobulin protein that has gotten outside of thyroid cells after damage and inflammation has occurred. To explain further, what actually takes place is that aTPO abs and aTG abs are made for the purpose of cleaning up spilled peroxidase and thyroglobulin AFTER the thyroid cells have been ~ATTACKED~ by the Th1 and damaged or destroyed. After the thyroid cells are damaged by the Th1 peroxidase and thyroglobulin leak out of the thyroid cells, which signals the autoimmune system to make aTPO/aTG abs to clean up the spillage. The aTPO/aTG abs are made strictly for the purpose of being compliant, they clean up the damaged cells that cause inflammation. Some scientists believe that it's important to lower the aTPO/aTG antibodies' levels in Hashis, as the contentious is that the lower the antibodies are the lesser destruction that will occur. However, it doesn't always work this way and can be somewhat complex, as when the gland is at its end the antibodies lower because thyroid follicular cells are gone and the antibodies are no longer needed to clean up the damaged cells. We have no way to track the Killer lymphocytes --scientists refer to them as Th1, they, in fact,, DESTROY thyroid cells. So instead the aTPO/aTG antibody levels are used as a reference. This is likely where the confusion happens when doctors pass the wrong info on to their patients or don't take the time to clearly explain what these antibodies really do. I have had Hashis for 10 years and my last ultra sound was last Sep. I still have over 2/3 of my gland. My aTPO level was over 20,000 and now it is 87. There are things we can do to modulate our immune system. Some people have had massive aTPO levels and have very little damage while others with low amounts of antibodies and have massive damage to their gland. The idea is not to get stuck on the antibody count but do everything you can do improve your well-being and health. So high amounts of aTPOabs or aTGabs ~~might~~ mean that more damage has occurred, but in smaller instances it could also mean your immune system is very strong. Anytime the neck is injured, like being chocked or during an accidental fall these antibodies will form to clean up the damaged tissue. There is an excellent chapter on this in Thyroid Disease Manager (chapter 6). It is a site for doctors and I have learned a lot there. Some of it is hard for a Hashi brain to understand. Just keep trying. It took me a few years to understand. http://www.thyroidmanager.org I Hope this is helpful, ~Bj > > I'm new to the group and anxious to learn about Hashimoto's. My 27 year old daughter was recently diagnosed and is hopeful to find some relief from the symptoms she's suffered with intermittently over the last several years. She had a high TSH result at age 15: 6.85 (.70-6.40), but for a variety of reasons, we never followed through (OH, how I wish we had--feeling really guilty about now!). Anyway, fast forward to August 2011 when we discovered she had a TPO AB of 1734.58 (0.0-100.00). Her TSH is within the normal range each time it's checked but she did show " multinodular thyroid with borderline enlargement " on the echo thyroid scan. Her uptake scan was within normal limits as well, although showed " mild-to-moderate enlargement " . > > After much frustration at the free clinic my daughter goes to, we convinced the doctor to wake up and notice that there was an issue with her thyroid and maybe we could at least try a low dose of thyroid meds. I think it's been about 3 or 4 months now. She says she feels a little better but is still fatigued and has trouble sleeping: it's all she wants to do! > > Does anyone know if there is any more danger with the TPO being that high or is it simply an arbitrary number? There's very little specific info out there--or else Google can't find it! > > I'm glad to have found the group and look forward to learning from it. > > A. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Bj, Your description accords with my understanding just about perfectly. Thanks. It is needed. Unfortunately the thing that really happens is that doctors themselves seem to fail to understand. And then tell patients that the antibodies are attacking the thyroid. I have all the time in the world to help patients in understanding this - but little for doctors who have not picked up the basics. Rod > > Hi , > > Hashimoto's thyroiditis is a chronic inflammatory autoimmune disease of the thyroid gland. The thyroid is a victim of the autoimmune system gone haywire. It is NOT a thyroid disease; the thyroid is the targeted victim and its eventually damaged in the majority of patients. > > Anti-Thyroid Peroxidase antibodies (aTPO) and anti-Thyroglobulin antibodies (aTG) DO NOT damage or destroy thyroid cells or our thyroid gland. And they definitely don't attack other organs! > > Even though these antibodies are known as the " markers for inflammation " - aTPO/aTG abs DON'T DESTROY the thyroid cells. These antibodies show that there is inflammation happening and they also can promote ~complement~ type inflammation by simply being there. > > aTPOabs are antibodies against the " free " peroxidase enzyme that has gotten outside of thyroid cells after damage and inflammation occur usually by the Killer T cells. The aTPOabs are actually cleaning up AFTER a thyroid cell that has ALREADY been damaged. Killer lymphocytes, T-cells (Th1) are what ATTACK and ~DEMISE~ thyroid cells in Hastimoto's Thyroiditis. Likewise, aTGabs are antibodies against the " free " thyroglobulin protein that has gotten outside of thyroid cells after damage and inflammation has occurred. > > To explain further, what actually takes place is that aTPO abs and aTG abs are made for the purpose of cleaning up spilled peroxidase and thyroglobulin AFTER the thyroid cells have been ~ATTACKED~ by the Th1 and damaged or destroyed. After the thyroid cells are damaged by the Th1 peroxidase and thyroglobulin leak out of the thyroid cells, which signals the autoimmune system to make aTPO/aTG abs > to clean up the spillage. The aTPO/aTG abs are made strictly for the purpose of being compliant, they clean up the damaged cells that cause inflammation. > > Some scientists believe that it's important to lower the aTPO/aTG antibodies' levels in Hashis, as the contentious is that the lower the antibodies are the lesser destruction that will occur. However, it doesn't always work this way and can be somewhat complex, as when the gland is at its end the antibodies lower because thyroid follicular cells are gone and the antibodies are no longer needed to clean up the damaged cells. > > We have no way to track the Killer lymphocytes --scientists refer to them as Th1, they, in fact,, DESTROY thyroid cells. So instead the aTPO/aTG antibody levels are used as a reference. This is likely where the confusion happens when doctors pass the wrong info on to their patients or don't take the time to clearly explain what these antibodies really do. > > I have had Hashis for 10 years and my last ultra sound was last Sep. I still have over 2/3 of my gland. My aTPO level was over 20,000 and now it is 87. There are things we can do to modulate our immune system. Some people have had massive aTPO levels and have very little damage while others with low amounts of antibodies and have massive damage to their gland. The idea is not to get stuck on the antibody count but do everything you can do improve your well-being and health. > > So high amounts of aTPOabs or aTGabs ~~might~~ mean that more damage has occurred, but in smaller instances it could also mean your immune system is very strong. Anytime the neck is injured, like being chocked or during an accidental fall these antibodies will form to clean up the damaged tissue. > > There is an excellent chapter on this in Thyroid Disease Manager (chapter 6). It is a site for doctors and I have learned a lot there. Some of it is hard for a Hashi brain to understand. Just keep trying. It took me a few years to understand. http://www.thyroidmanager.org > > I Hope this is helpful, > ~Bj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Hi Rod, DITTO! I fully agree. I hope you and your family had a great Holiday Season! We sure did, just got home from Disneyland. My kids sure loved it. Now, I need to recoup. And figure out my new diet (food allergens) and blood sugar/insulin problem. I am really overwhelmed and my adrenals are taking a beating again. Cheers and Happy New Year, ~Bj > > > > Hi , > > > > Hashimoto's thyroiditis is a chronic inflammatory autoimmune disease of the thyroid gland. The thyroid is a victim of the autoimmune system gone haywire. It is NOT a thyroid disease; the thyroid is the targeted victim and its eventually damaged in the majority of patients. > > > > Anti-Thyroid Peroxidase antibodies (aTPO) and anti-Thyroglobulin antibodies (aTG) DO NOT damage or destroy thyroid cells or our thyroid gland. And they definitely don't attack other organs! > > > > Even though these antibodies are known as the " markers for inflammation " - aTPO/aTG abs DON'T DESTROY the thyroid cells. These antibodies show that there is inflammation happening and they also can promote ~complement~ type inflammation by simply being there. > > > > aTPOabs are antibodies against the " free " peroxidase enzyme that has gotten outside of thyroid cells after damage and inflammation occur usually by the Killer T cells. The aTPOabs are actually cleaning up AFTER a thyroid cell that has ALREADY been damaged. Killer lymphocytes, T-cells (Th1) are what ATTACK and ~DEMISE~ thyroid cells in Hastimoto's Thyroiditis. Likewise, aTGabs are antibodies against the " free " thyroglobulin protein that has gotten outside of thyroid cells after damage and inflammation has occurred. > > > > To explain further, what actually takes place is that aTPO abs and aTG abs are made for the purpose of cleaning up spilled peroxidase and thyroglobulin AFTER the thyroid cells have been ~ATTACKED~ by the Th1 and damaged or destroyed. After the thyroid cells are damaged by the Th1 peroxidase and thyroglobulin leak out of the thyroid cells, which signals the autoimmune system to make aTPO/aTG abs > > to clean up the spillage. The aTPO/aTG abs are made strictly for the purpose of being compliant, they clean up the damaged cells that cause inflammation. > > > > Some scientists believe that it's important to lower the aTPO/aTG antibodies' levels in Hashis, as the contentious is that the lower the antibodies are the lesser destruction that will occur. However, it doesn't always work this way and can be somewhat complex, as when the gland is at its end the antibodies lower because thyroid follicular cells are gone and the antibodies are no longer needed to clean up the damaged cells. > > > > We have no way to track the Killer lymphocytes --scientists refer to them as Th1, they, in fact,, DESTROY thyroid cells. So instead the aTPO/aTG antibody levels are used as a reference. This is likely where the confusion happens when doctors pass the wrong info on to their patients or don't take the time to clearly explain what these antibodies really do. > > > > I have had Hashis for 10 years and my last ultra sound was last Sep. I still have over 2/3 of my gland. My aTPO level was over 20,000 and now it is 87. There are things we can do to modulate our immune system. Some people have had massive aTPO levels and have very little damage while others with low amounts of antibodies and have massive damage to their gland. The idea is not to get stuck on the antibody count but do everything you can do improve your well-being and health. > > > > So high amounts of aTPOabs or aTGabs ~~might~~ mean that more damage has occurred, but in smaller instances it could also mean your immune system is very strong. Anytime the neck is injured, like being chocked or during an accidental fall these antibodies will form to clean up the damaged tissue. > > > > There is an excellent chapter on this in Thyroid Disease Manager (chapter 6). It is a site for doctors and I have learned a lot there. Some of it is hard for a Hashi brain to understand. Just keep trying. It took me a few years to understand. http://www.thyroidmanager.org > > > > I Hope this is helpful, > > ~Bj > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Wow, what a lot of great information you've shared! I am truly grateful. Will have to re-read it a time or two for it to sink in completely but appreciate your efforts to share. It's why I joined the group--to learn from everyone here. Was very interested in the article shared regarding selenium and hope to learn lots more about that. Considering having my daughter try a supplement but don't want to try anything without loads of research first. Last thing we want is to cause more harm than help! Thanks again. Look forward to continuing my quest for knowledge. LKA > > > > I'm new to the group and anxious to learn about Hashimoto's. My 27 year old daughter was recently diagnosed and is hopeful to find some relief from the symptoms she's suffered with intermittently over the last several years. She had a high TSH result at age 15: 6.85 (.70-6.40), but for a variety of reasons, we never followed through (OH, how I wish we had--feeling really guilty about now!). Anyway, fast forward to August 2011 when we discovered she had a TPO AB of 1734.58 (0.0-100.00). Her TSH is within the normal range each time it's checked but she did show " multinodular thyroid with borderline enlargement " on the echo thyroid scan. Her uptake scan was within normal limits as well, although showed " mild-to-moderate enlargement " . > > > > After much frustration at the free clinic my daughter goes to, we convinced the doctor to wake up and notice that there was an issue with her thyroid and maybe we could at least try a low dose of thyroid meds. I think it's been about 3 or 4 months now. She says she feels a little better but is still fatigued and has trouble sleeping: it's all she wants to do! > > > > Does anyone know if there is any more danger with the TPO being that high or is it simply an arbitrary number? There's very little specific info out there--or else Google can't find it! > > > > I'm glad to have found the group and look forward to learning from it. > > > > A. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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