Guest guest Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 ----- Original Message ----- From: cnickerson We have been free from calcium supplements and dairy sources for over a year. We have blood draws to check the levels in our sons. It is still normal. ===>Although I wholeheartedly agree that calcium is not a good idea for some kids, the inability to tolerate it, signal problems with metal toxicity and/or as Natasa would report, viruses. You cannot, however, used serum calcium levels to determine if a child's calcium requirements are being met. The body is designed to keep serum calcium in a very narrow range, often withdrawing calcium from the bones, and does not mean, if normal, that the calcium requirements are being met. A trial of withdrawal of calcium seems a prudent course. Most of their diet consists of meat, fruit and a little vegetable. We even use reverse osmosis water to keep the minerals under control. We had recovered our twins over the last 18 months. We have also met a few non responders to biomed over the last year. One has began talking after his mom removed his calcium supplement (which he has been on for over 5 years) and he has started to use words. He had been non verbal for 10 years. For good sets of labs on calcium levels visit the vitamink group.The calcium issue is not simple as most things with our kids. A removal trial to see if it makes a difference would be a start. And if it does make a difference, I would have some tests done to check vitamin A K and D levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 The body is designed to keep serum calcium in a very narrow range, often withdrawing calcium from the bones, and does not mean, if normal, that the calcium requirements are being met.that goes for normal circumstances and healthy bodies, not sure if we can place our kids in that category.also, low serum levels could, in theory, mean that there is plenty of calcium around, just that it is not all going where it should... in theory low serum levels could mean that requirements are being met but are being abused by dysfunctional systems, which in theory in some cases could mean that supplementing when levels are low would make matters worse!!!catherine t goes to some length comparing and explaining different test results on vit k list, serum ca versus cellular, ionised versus bound etc. worth checking if anyone is interested or Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: calcium again The body is designed to keep serum calcium in a very narrow range, often withdrawing calcium from the bones, and does not mean, if normal, that the calcium requirements are being met.that goes for normal circumstances and healthy bodies, not sure if we can place our kids in that category. ===>My point: you cannot assume their calcium requirements are being met by finding normal serum calcium levels. That calcium can be being withdrawn from their long bones. That was the assertion that not supplementing with calcium and/or supplements and finding normal serum calcium levels is proof that there is adequate calcium. It is not.====>also, low serum levels could, in theory, mean that there is plenty of calcium around, just that it is not all going where it should... in theory low serum levels could mean that requirements are being met but are being abused by dysfunctional systems, which in theory in some cases could mean that supplementing when levels are low would make matters worse!!! ===>And another scenario, high serum calcium can and often does mean that there is plenty of calcium available, but it's not going where it needs be. That is what we saw here and with the addition of K2 we saw calcium levels drop to normal.====> catherine t goes to some length comparing and explaining different test results on vit k list, serum ca versus cellular, ionised versus bound etc. worth checking if anyone is interested or Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 I have heard this too. In fact we had the eye pushing too and once the boys were verbal they told me their eyes hurt. I posted this on the peacan bread group (SCD) over a year ago and someone sent me an email that the oxalates were moving from the eyes and not to supplement them with calcium as advised by the others that had posted trying to help us with the eye pushing. Although I was told the calcium would help with the eye pressing because it would bind with the oxalates. She advised me if I did choose the calcium supplements, to add K2 and vitamin D and magnesium. Once the eyes were better, to SLOWLY reduce the calcium supplement and see if the eye pain returned. If it did, she told us to go back on the calcium with the K2, vitamin D, magnesium and add bicarb to the mix. And try the withdraw over again. (This is when I started the whole calcium investigation.) I didn't take her advice, (although in hindsite, it probably would have been easier. If the boys presented with eye pushing again, I would add the calcium with the other vitamins and then try to eliminate it) The boys tolerated the eye pain and we reduced oxalates from our SCD diet. Eventually the eye pain went away and the sensitivities to lights too. I must admit the cold turkey thing was a little tough on them and I would not advise it. A gradual reduction would probably make the adjustment more tolerable. We have calcium related seizures too so this may be why it is troublesome for us. Dana Read wrote: I don't know about the seizures but I would like to add our experience w/calcium. My kids are both GFCFSFCFSF and drink only water so no calcium from rice or potato milks. Both of my kids used to press on their foreheads and eyes consistently throughout the day. Adding in Kirkman's hypoallergenic calcium 2x/day made this symptom completely disappear. I know not all kids can tolerate calcium but it has been an essential nutrient in my boys regimen and one I would never go without. - Dana Re: calcium again The body is designed to keep serum calcium in a very narrow range, often withdrawing calcium from the bones, and does not mean, if normal, that the calcium requirements are being met. that goes for normal circumstances and healthy bodies, not sure if we can place our kids in that category. ===>My point: you cannot assume their calcium requirements are being met by finding normal serum calcium levels. That calcium can be being withdrawn from their long bones. That was the assertion that not supplementing with calcium and/or supplements and finding normal serum calcium levels is proof that there is adequate calcium. It is not.====> also, low serum levels could, in theory, mean that there is plenty of calcium around, just that it is not all going where it should... in theory low serum levels could mean that requirements are being met but are being abused by dysfunctional systems, which in theory in some cases could mean that supplementing when levels are low would make matters worse!!! ===>And another scenario, high serum calcium can and often does mean that there is plenty of calcium available, but it's not going where it needs be. That is what we saw here and with the addition of K2 we saw calcium levels drop to normal.====> catherine t goes to some length comparing and explaining different test results on vit k list, serum ca versus cellular, ionised versus bound etc. worth checking if anyone is interested or Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 My kids are on magnesium and D but not K. We have run out of calcium in the past and when we are without it, the eye pressing returns almost immediately. Their diet is low oxalate, not because we tried to make it that way but it just happens to be given their preferences and their IGGs. -----Original Message-----From: mb12 valtrex [mailto:mb12 valtrex ]On Behalf Of cnickersonSent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:42 PMTo: mb12 valtrex Subject: Re: Re: calcium again I have heard this too. In fact we had the eye pushing too and once the boys were verbal they told me their eyes hurt. I posted this on the peacan bread group (SCD) over a year ago and someone sent me an email that the oxalates were moving from the eyes and not to supplement them with calcium as advised by the others that had posted trying to help us with the eye pushing. Although I was told the calcium would help with the eye pressing because it would bind with the oxalates. She advised me if I did choose the calcium supplements, to add K2 and vitamin D and magnesium. Once the eyes were better, to SLOWLY reduce the calcium supplement and see if the eye pain returned. If it did, she told us to go back on the calcium with the K2, vitamin D, magnesium and add bicarb to the mix. And try the withdraw over again. (This is when I started the whole calcium investigation.) I didn't take her advice, (although in hindsite, it probably would have been easier. If the boys presented with eye pushing again, I would add the calcium with the other vitamins and then try to eliminate it) The boys tolerated the eye pain and we reduced oxalates from our SCD diet. Eventually the eye pain went away and the sensitivities to lights too. I must admit the cold turkey thing was a little tough on them and I would not advise it. A gradual reduction would probably make the adjustment more tolerable.We have calcium related seizures too so this may be why it is troublesome for us.Dana Read wrote: I don't know about the seizures but I would like to add our experience w/calcium. My kids are both GFCFSFCFSF and drink only water so no calcium from rice or potato milks. Both of my kids used to press on their foreheads and eyes consistently throughout the day. Adding in Kirkman's hypoallergenic calcium 2x/day made this symptom completely disappear. I know not all kids can tolerate calcium but it has been an essential nutrient in my boys regimen and one I would never go without. - Dana -----Original Message-----From: mb12 valtrex [mailto:mb12 valtrex ]On Behalf Of Robin BroylesSent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 3:58 PMTo: mb12 valtrex Subject: Re: Re: calcium again I've also heard that calcium can cause seizures. Anyone know anything about this or want to weigh in? On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 10:43 AM, <Ladyshrink111peoplepc> wrote: Re: calcium again The body is designed to keep serum calcium in a very narrow range, often withdrawing calcium from the bones, and does not mean, if normal, that the calcium requirements are being met.that goes for normal circumstances and healthy bodies, not sure if we can place our kids in that category. ===>My point: you cannot assume their calcium requirements are being met by finding normal serum calcium levels. That calcium can be being withdrawn from their long bones. That was the assertion that not supplementing with calcium and/or supplements and finding normal serum calcium levels is proof that there is adequate calcium. It is not.====> also, low serum levels could, in theory, mean that there is plenty of calcium around, just that it is not all going where it should... in theory low serum levels could mean that requirements are being met but are being abused by dysfunctional systems, which in theory in some cases could mean that supplementing when levels are low would make matters worse!!! ===>And another scenario, high serum calcium can and often does mean that there is plenty of calcium available, but it's not going where it needs be. That is what we saw here and with the addition of K2 we saw calcium levels drop to normal.====> catherine t goes to some length comparing and explaining different test results on vit k list, serum ca versus cellular, ionised versus bound etc. worth checking if anyone is interested or Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Hi Dana The eye pressing is not fun because my boys did it before they became verbal. Once they became verbal they would press on their eyes and say OW OW OW! If it didn't go away I would have done the calcium too. Have you looked into the vitamin K group? This is where we learned about the vitamin K2 and the bicarb. She doesn't advocate the LOD but it was worked with our kids combined with SCD and GFCF. We are now not low oxalate or low calcium (spinach and brocoli are now tolerated) and the boys are tolerating these new additions. I think that all of us here should have a degree in chemistry by now! Take Care Dana Read wrote: My kids are on magnesium and D but not K. We have run out of calcium in the past and when we are without it, the eye pressing returns almost immediately. Their diet is low oxalate, not because we tried to make it that way but it just happens to be given their preferences and their IGGs. Re: calcium again The body is designed to keep serum calcium in a very narrow range, often withdrawing calcium from the bones, and does not mean, if normal, that the calcium requirements are being met. that goes for normal circumstances and healthy bodies, not sure if we can place our kids in that category. ===>My point: you cannot assume their calcium requirements are being met by finding normal serum calcium levels. That calcium can be being withdrawn from their long bones. That was the assertion that not supplementing with calcium and/or supplements and finding normal serum calcium levels is proof that there is adequate calcium. It is not.====> also, low serum levels could, in theory, mean that there is plenty of calcium around, just that it is not all going where it should... in theory low serum levels could mean that requirements are being met but are being abused by dysfunctional systems, which in theory in some cases could mean that supplementing when levels are low would make matters worse!!! ===>And another scenario, high serum calcium can and often does mean that there is plenty of calcium available, but it's not going where it needs be. That is what we saw here and with the addition of K2 we saw calcium levels drop to normal.====> catherine t goes to some length comparing and explaining different test results on vit k list, serum ca versus cellular, ionised versus bound etc. worth checking if anyone is interested or Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 - Is there one thing in particular that you gave them that you think helped them acquire language? Re: calcium again The body is designed to keep serum calcium in a very narrow range, often withdrawing calcium from the bones, and does not mean, if normal, that the calcium requirements are being met.that goes for normal circumstances and healthy bodies, not sure if we can place our kids in that category. ===>My point: you cannot assume their calcium requirements are being met by finding normal serum calcium levels. That calcium can be being withdrawn from their long bones. That was the assertion that not supplementing with calcium and/or supplements and finding normal serum calcium levels is proof that there is adequate calcium. It is not.====> also, low serum levels could, in theory, mean that there is plenty of calcium around, just that it is not all going where it should... in theory low serum levels could mean that requirements are being met but are being abused by dysfunctional systems, which in theory in some cases could mean that supplementing when levels are low would make matters worse!!! ===>And another scenario, high serum calcium can and often does mean that there is plenty of calcium available, but it's not going where it needs be. That is what we saw here and with the addition of K2 we saw calcium levels drop to normal.====> catherine t goes to some length comparing and explaining different test results on vit k list, serum ca versus cellular, ionised versus bound etc. worth checking if anyone is interested or Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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