Some of those partners *may be the cause* of - the triggers for - AS misbehavior.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I have to say that I have a different perspective on this. At the end of the

day, my husband has a massive issue with communicating 'what he means'. It

always comes out differently, I understand differently and he gets frustrated.

With help from counsellors, we have got to the route of the problem.

The issue is that AS people tend to speak in 2D, it's flat with no inferences

intended, however NT's will intuit their way through things, and infer meanings.

Reading between the lines.

In addition to this, my husband, due to his AS need to control is immediate

environment, is always on my case, he is always judging me, nagging me and

generally on my back to do things how he wants. If I blow up with sheer

frustration, this also becomes my fault.

So, turning around what you have said, is this still my fault, for blowing up

against constant berating from an AS? Given that I am NT, I am programmed to

behave in certain ways, and therefore, I claim the same immunity against this

behaviour, as an AS would, because I am simply programmed that way. I cannot

make myself behave in an AS way to please him.

Also, if I ask my husband to 'take out the trash' or do something that is not in

his chosen alloted chores and activities, I am often labelled as nagging and

being on his back. As I am in a 'partnership' which includes sharing

responsibility, is this also my fault, because he has perceived 'nagging'

although I I may have simply mentioned it 2 times and certainly not loudly or

'banging on'. From what I understand in your argument on triggers for

behaviour, this is still my fault.

When does he get to take joint responsibility for improving our interactions?

Since neither of us are able to change our essential programming.

Love to hear you opinions on this.

Thanks

> > Some of those partners *may be the cause* of - the triggers for - AS

> > " misbehavior " . That's the dark secret that dares not speak it's name.

> > Sometimes it's the NT.

> >

> > Hi Bill:

> >

> > Can you expand your thinking on this? In the addiction world there is

> > an old joke, " You would drink too if you were married to my wife " . Or

> > many batterers have said, " She MADE me hit her or verbally and

> > emotionally abuse her. She is responsible for MY behavior " .

> >

> > In what way do you think NT partners are responsible for the behavior

> > of their AS partners?

>

> I " think " no such thing! " Responsible " is your word, not mine.

> My words were " ...cause of... " in the explanatory context of

> " ...triggers for... " " Triggers " is exactly what I meant.

>

> Think of one spouse - either gender - constantly and loudly being on the

> other's " case " , at the drop of a hat, with little or provocation.

> I've known people like that, couples like that; I bet you have too.

> Think of the other spouse finally blowing his/her cork -- an AS

> " meltdown " ? In this case " triggered " by the first spouse, yes?

>

> In the statement I made, I implied " sometimes it's the NT " who is that

> trigger. Surely nobody's surprised at the possibility?

>

> It's no more complicated or significant than that. It happens between

> NTs as well -- in the " best and most admirable " of relationships.

>

> > By not understanding AS? What if neither party

> > knows the other has AS, how are they responsible?

>

> Most often they're not, I'd guess. Again your word, your idea, not mine.

>

> > I may have totally

> > misjudged your words, and I apologize. I am just asking for more

> > information on your theory.

>

> I don't think you misjudged; " read into " might be more accurate. Just a

> mistaken reading. Anyway, no apology needed.

>

> >

> > Just trying to understand exactly what you mean.

>

> - Bill ...AS, ...always happy to help anyway.

>

> --

> WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

> http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with both of you.... What you say below is not incompatible with what Bill said... (in my opinion). You are right, people do need to learn to deal with their triggers. And sometimes that means staying away from some people, maybe even a spouse. Regardless of who is AS, NT or anything else. Because some people are simply not compatible with each other. Like Bill said, it might not be AS it might be any kind of relationship. I know some people who could trigger anyone on the planet in a matter of minutes, they aren't AS nor do they have a diagnosis, they are just excessively nasty people who are completely self focused.

And I do think we (everyone AS or not) need to take responsibility for how we affect others. If I know that my husband (or anyone) is annoyed or triggered by something, I choose to not do it around him. If I choose to do the annoying thing around him I'm choosing to deal with him being annoyed with me. I shouldn't do things to or around him knowing that it annoys him and then pout when he gets mad. That's what kids do, they purposely annoy the *rap out of their siblings until their sibling gets mad and then they saying "she hit me" but me being the mom, I know the other kid bugged and bugged and bugged knowing full well the second child was going to lose it and hit. That's not playing fair in my opinion and in this house it's the child who bugged that gets in the most trouble, telling them to take responsibility for tormenting their sibling. NOT the child who finally blew up after being endlessly bugged. Because lets face it, some people won't STOP their bad behavior until someone blows up. But then I follow up with explaining to the child who blew up that they need to learn to walk away before they blow up, whenever possible. But sometimes it isn't possible.

Just my 3 cents

Jennie

Some of those partners *may be the cause* of - the triggers for - AS "misbehavior".

In the statement I made, I implied "sometimes it's the NT" who is that trigger. Surely nobody's surprised at the possibility? It's no more complicated or significant than that. It happens between NTs as well -- in the "best and most admirable" of relationships.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Bill:Thanks and I can relate to that and agree. BUT, I would maintain as adults, we are all responsible for our own behavior and how it affects others. We all have to live by the same social norms that society expects of us. There are all kinds of triggers that we all deal with on any given day. It is my humble opinion that we need to learn what those triggers are and positive ways to handle them so we can lead a healthy life.Just my humble perspective.Best.

[Guest guest]

I agree with both of you.... What you say below is not incompatible with

what Bill said... (in my opinion). You are right, people do need to learn to

deal with their triggers. And sometimes that means staying away from some

people, maybe even a spouse.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I agree with you!!!!!!!!!

]

Best.

[Guest guest]

Becky Hall wrote:

> Hi,

>

> I have to say that I have a different perspective on this. At the

> end of the day, my husband has a massive issue with communicating

> 'what he means'. It always comes out differently, I understand

> differently and he gets frustrated. With help from counsellors, we

> have got to the route of the problem.

[ snip ]

> From what I understand in your argument on triggers for behaviour,

> this is still my fault.

No. Neither your " fault " nor his; and fault or blame is *no way* part

of my views on triggers.

To heal a broken relationship the Blame-Game must stop!

>

> When does he get to take joint responsibility for improving our

> interactions? Since neither of us are able to change our essential

> programming.

>

> Love to hear you opinions on this.

Neither he nor you " gets to take " joint responsibility - it's an

*obligation* of your freely chosen relationship. Both of you *are* able

to change; " essential programming " is a fiction.

But " able " to change is one thing, " willing " is quite another. This is

where trust in each other is the " essential " part. Without mutual

trust, the relationship is a fiction.

>

> Thanks

>

>

>>> Some of those partners *may be the cause* of - the triggers for -

>>> AS " misbehavior " . That's the dark secret that dares not speak

>>> it's name. Sometimes it's the NT.

>>>

>>> Hi Bill:

>>>

>>> Can you expand your thinking on this?

[ snip ]

Already replied - to .

- Bill ...AS; retired professional biologist; long married

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm