Is this air cleaner effective?

[Guest guest]

After a year of mold remediation in my house, my basement is still

causing me problems. The summer humidity has woken up some random mold

spores and I'm suffering again (when I tested the area in March it was

clean).

So I found a new product- Airfree Platinum 2000-thats claims to burn

up mold spores, among other things. It seems to be highly rated in

Europe (which impresses me)and I'm tempted to buy this (the allerg

website has a 2 months money back guarantee so its worth trying).

Anyone have one at home? Any experience with it?

Before I spend hundreds of dollars I'd appreciate some advice!

Thanks, Surella

[Guest guest]

Don't spend a dollar on an air cleaner if your basement is humid.

Get a powerful dehumidifier like a Sante Fe or UltraAire or Sanidry

that Sue has in her basement. You want to prevent the cause of mold,

not kill them. We have all talked in here about fact that preventing

mold growth and removal of mold existing is the only way. Something

that kills mold leaves undesireable mold debris including their

toxins. Use a good humidistat to make sure humidity in basement, is

well below 50%. Be sure to test corners where humidity tends to be a

little higher and floors. All humidistats aren't accurate, so get a

different types. However at this point if it feels humid, or smells

humid, it probably is. Then if you can afford it, add an air cleaner,

but if you keep it dry you won't really need the air cleaner unless you

have other source of problem.

--- In , " surellabaer " <surellabaer@...>

wrote:

>

> After a year of mold remediation in my house, my basement is still

> causing me problems. The summer humidity has woken up some random mold

> spores and I'm suffering again (when I tested the area in March it was

> clean).

>

[Guest guest]

Improving ventilation is preferable to cleaning dirty air. Good HEPA air

cleaners also don't have to be expensive. Spend the money you save on more

frequent filter changings. Also, can you address the source of the mold?

[Guest guest]

Improving ventilation is tricky business in hot humid summer, if your

in this climate type now. Bring in hot humid air will increase your

basement humidity. You can do that if you have gotten a heavy duty

dehumidifier that can dehumidify basement humidity you have now PLUS

MORE that you would be bringing in. I assume since basement is

bothering you NOW you said and not before that basement humidity may be

culprit but you can test that to see. Otherwise I don't know why

basement would start to bother you in summer that wasn't bothering you

before. That's why I would start with checking out and correcting any

humidity problems first. Adding fresh air is great if you can maintain

a low humidity at same time since in summer humidity may be 80% at time

or higher even with high dewpoints as you get into July Aug and Sept.

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> Improving ventilation is preferable to cleaning dirty air.

[Guest guest]

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

Here are my 2 problems-the space is relatively huge-1200 sq ft- so I'd

need several air cleaners and they'd need to be capable of killing

mold spores-in the end I'm spending hundreds of dollars just to buy 3

machines. And I'm afraid I will always have some mold spores flying

around downstairs.

The other problem is that I have addressed the mold problem bigtime

and I am out of ideas. I don;t see any mold at all. All the walls are

gone, the damp wall has been waterproofed, I run a heavy duty

dehumidifier 24/7 and still when it got hot and humid 2 weeks ago-my

eyes started to hurt.

There are some spores down there-where does one look if there is no

where for them to hide?

> Improving ventilation is preferable to cleaning dirty air. Good HEPA air

> cleaners also don't have to be expensive. Spend the money you save

on more

> frequent filter changings. Also, can you address the source of the

mold?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Barb is right about bringing in humidity. If there are cold (or even just

cool) surfaces in a basement or anywhere, if you bring in really moist air,

it will condense on it. Thats why if it is humid, you need to try to either

dehumidify or insulate the walls and floor so that they will more closely

match the ambient temp.

How long has it been since a water incursion. Many buildings have had issues

in the past, and have been superficially went over but they were never

really cleaned fully of mold.

If a building had a serious problem, testing often wont show it..

On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 9:43 PM, surellabaer <surellabaer@...> wrote:

[Guest guest]

If it has not been said allready, dont waste any money on the supposed

perminent, cleanable heppa filters such as I did with the hunter from Lowes. I

think the product is great and quiet for the most part. I have the model " 30547 "

But the filter is not perminent by any means. I should have known better

but....  Nice otherwise.

[Guest guest]

I can't quite tell who wrote this and it looks like there are a couple

of

responses intertwined. But I have a couple of suggestions.

First, eliminating all mold spores is impossilbe and is the wrong

approach.

Let me explain that first and then some suggestions on what to

do.

> Here are my 2 problems-the space is relatively huge-1200 sq ft- so I'd

> need several air cleaners and they'd need to be capable of killing

> mold spores...

It does no good to kill mold spores because the proteins, glucans,

enzymes, mycotoxins, proteinase etc that cause the reactions are

still present in dead mold. Killing mold doesn't change any of this.

Those components are also in the mold growth fragments (think

leaves and twigs like from a tree) and these are already dead

because they were never alive. So trying to kill dead stuff is a

waste. Mold must be removed.

>-in the end I'm spending hundreds of dollars just to buy 3

> machines. And I'm afraid I will always have some mold spores flying

> around downstairs.

Despite what I just said above about removing mold spores, you

can never remove all the mold. You will always have mold spores

flying around everywhere because they are everywhere. Even if

you get a room perfectly " clean " as soon as you open a door or

window more mold comes in with the air. It is on your clothes and

hair, also.

The problem is not that there are mold spores. The problem is

there are mold spores that grew into a " garden " or a " jungle "

called a biomass because of dampness. More spores and

hyphael fragments are created by this infestation. Once removed

and the moisture stopped, no more infestation.

Dampness indoors causes other problems, not just the mold

growth which produces more and more spores. It also affects our

bodies in ways other than allergies, sometimes making us

reactive to many other substances, including chemical sources

like cleaning products, building materials and even personal care

products.

> The other problem is that I have addressed the mold problem bigtime

> and I am out of ideas. I don;t see any mold at all. All the walls are

> gone, the damp wall has been waterproofed, I run a heavy duty

> dehumidifier 24/7 and still when it got hot and humid 2 weeks ago-my

> eyes started to hurt.

If you have removed sources of mold and stopped the moisture,

which it sounds like you have, then you are either hyper-sensitive

so you are reacting to the " normal " types and levels of mold

spores that used to be okay for you OR, you are reacting to

something else that dampness causes. OR, you are reacting to

something you used to either kill mold or seal in the mold.

Perhaps the waterproofing. OR, you are reacting to lots of things

now because of your experience. Trying to remove mold that isn't

there won't work. Trying to remove something that is not causing

the reactions won't work.

> There are some spores down there-where does one look if there is no

> where for them to hide?

Mold spores don't really hide like cockroaches or mice. They are

always everywhere so trying for an absolute sterile condition is

impossible.

> > Improving ventilation is preferable to cleaning dirty air. Good HEPA air

> > cleaners also don't have to be expensive. Spend the money you save

> on more

> > frequent filter changings.

I generally agree with this, unless the mold condtions outside are

worse than inside. Or if you are in a hot and humid climate

opening windows brings in the humidity, perhaps creating an

accumulation of moisture (condensation) for mold spores to

grow.

Okay, so I've given a lot of reasons for failure to solve the

problem, some things to not do and why others don't work. That

doesn't mean nothing can be done. It can.

However, because (it sounds like) you are reacting to very low

levels of several exposure sources a different approach is

needed. It won't be simple and you will have to trust your own

reactions, both good and bad.

1. You need to identify as best you can the ways your body is

being affected. 's QEESI may help. It's a free

download at http://familymed.uthscsa.edu/qeesi.pdf Focus on

the body systems of greatest impact first.

2. Identify the types of exposures, whether they are in your house

or not, as best you can that cause the complaints. Categorize

them as Particles such as pet dander, pollen and dust; Chemicals

such as building materials and contents, pesticides, cleaning

products and personal care products; and, living organism such

as cockroach, dust mite, rodents, mold and bacteria. Note the

section on the QEESI about " masking, " especially for the

chemicals.

3. Now connect as best you can the things you react to with what

you are exposed to. If either is missing then you have no

reaction. For example, I have clients in Colorado who are

extremely reactive to dust mites, so they buy mattress covers etc.

and steam the bedding. But we don't have dust mites in

Colorado. So whatever they are reacting to cannot be dust mites

and they are wasting time and money removing the dust mites

that aren't there. Or, someone lives where there are lots of dust

mites. But if they aren't reactive to dust mites then removing them

is a waste also. It has to be BOTH a susceptibility and an

exposure or it is not a complaint. Understanding that eliminates

most sources of exposure and begins to make our experiences

both understandable and treatable.

4. Begin a program of removal of what you suspect to be the

exposure of greatest concern. Monitor any changes in impact.

Again, the QEESI may be helpful. You will gradually (I said it

wouldn't be simple) develop an understanding of what is not a

problem, what is but you can tolerate, what you must act against

immediately. Work on those of greatest impact first. As the big

ones are solved the body is often able to begin handling most of

little ones.

Don't try to be perfect or think you need absolute scientific

certainty before you can do this. You don't need the permission or

approval of friends and family. Just do the best you can for

yourself and keep doing it. You will learn from both what works

and what doesn't work and gradually create your own personal

lifestyle.

5. When individuals become very, or extremely, sensitized,

improving health is usually needed in addition to stopping the

exposures. Sometimes both together are needed. And this

causes the other difficulty: finding a health professional who

understands and can guide you through a similar process of trial

and error for what works for you.

Remember: It isn't always mold. Several I've talked with privately

from this group were mistaking other types of reactions for mold

reaction. But if it is mold, then mold is what must be addressed.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

[Guest guest]

As another example of what may be causing you problems rather

than the mold itself, read Jeff May's post today with the Subject:

Comparative genomics of fungal allergens.

It's about how we are " loading up the indoor environment with

microbial

proteins through the use of enzymes in cleaners. "

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

[Guest guest]

Since the increase in symptoms you say seem to have been kicked up by

summer humidity, I mentioned Sante Fe dehumidifier but very expensive,

worth it if you need it to bring humidity under control. These big

humidifiers have good filters on them too, so they will dehumidify

basement and filter it, MERV 11 and MERV 14. However it is a big

investment, so here is a less expensive dehumidifier than the large

capacity Sante Fe, that works at low temperatures, has a filter (not

MERV rated but better than nothing), and has a 65 pint capacity which

is pretty good you might want to try to see if drying out basement

helps with symptoms. I have a 25 pint dehumidifier in my basement now

so this is pretty good capacity. Mine isn't doing the job but I may

consider one of these less expensive ones since I'm not sure how long I

will stay in house. However if this capacity isn't sufficient I will

invest in the big ones since being sick is very expensive and I can

always sell it if I can't move it. Anyway, these look very desireable:

http://www.achooallergy.com/danby-dehumidifiers.asp

http://www.achooallergy.com/dehumidifer-haier.asp

Look also at humidity gauges. You need to get basement humidity down

to below 50%, 40% if possible:

http://www.achooallergy.com/acu-rite-humiditygauge.asp

-- In , " surellabaer " <surellabaer@...>

wrote:

>

> After a year of mold remediation in my house, my basement is still

> causing me problems. The summer humidity has woken up some random mold

> spores