Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Jill, I tried putting a pleated media filter on a propeller-blade fan to see if any air came through and none did so the power of a window fan is limited. Use the filter that came with the unit. Anyway, soot particles are too small (less than a micron) to be completely stopped by any filter that can operate with a window-type fan. Good question about the portable A/C. I had a different model and had to dump water from the collection bucket every few hours. The difference is in how the unit handles the water. The compressor produces lots of heat and air is used to cool it; most of the heat is what is being removed from the room air. Air is also removed from the room to take the heat away to the outside, so very hot air blows out of the hose to the exterior. The unit must be designed to use some of the hot air to evaporate the condensate water. Frost-free refrigerators do much the same. Every four hours, a heating element in the freezer section heats up the freezer case and melts the water that has condensed and frozen. The melted water drops into a condensate pan which would overflow were if not for the fact that the warm air from the compressor blows over the tray and evaporates the water. Of course, these trays fill with bacteria, yeast and mold and the compressor air blows over them. The trays get so ugly (because, in addition to house dust, the drain at the bottom of the cold storage section of the refrigerator drains milk and juice into the very same tray) that the manufacturers have now moved them to the top of the compressor where they are no longer visible or accessible. Clean the drip tray twice a year and (only if it is plastic) keep two tablespoons of salt in it to prevent microbial growth. C. May www.myhouseiskillingme.com ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > 4.1. Jeff :My portable A/C > Posted by: " jill1313 " jenbooks13@... jill1313 > Date: Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:54 pm ((PDT)) > > Jeff, how does this dew point info relate to my portable a/c? I try to > use window fans (so much healthier) and in fact, finally found a > double Holmes fan today with a built in filter, do you think I could > substitute a better filter in there to stop all the NYC soot from > blowing in? > > Anyway when it gets about 95 I can't stand it and pulled out the > portable a/c, Amana, for the bedroom. On high, in the master bedroom, > it took out the humidity and cooled the air to about 80 degrees, > that's the best it could do as I did not get a super strong one and > have a large master bedroom. More comfortable though. > > Anyway, I just took it out as it's getting cooler now and I'm back to > the fan. It's very easy to use. But my question is, where does it > condense? The hose going out the window was completely dry. Where did > the water go? How does that thing work? There's no drip pan that I can > see but I " m going to triple check. Would water gather inside it? It > blows very clean I can't smell ANY mold like I do from most window a/c. > > Thanks in advance. > Jill > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Thanks Jeff! That sounds disgusting about the frost free fridges. I did discover a little drainhole and unplugged it and water came out. I asked my boyfriend to get me a little drain hose and a shallow broiler pan so I can drain it without getting on my floor. He said the pan inside must be slightly tilted. It wasn't much water considering how hot and humid it was yesterday. I figure if, I drain it, and then when not in use keep that plug open, I should be pretty safe. Also, I found out that the portable works better when I keep it as close to the window as possible rather than extending the accordion tubing out into the room, which just puts more load on the a/c to push all that hot air all that way. Thanks for testing the window fans! Well some filtering is better than none. These fans are a testament to how sooty and dirty NYC is. I have to clean the soot off them every couple weeks, and the ledges get sooty too (inside ledges) because they're actively blowing gunk in. Time to move! Thx again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 Does your portable AC have both an air intake and an exhaust, or just an exhaust? The ones with just an exhaust depressurize a space and can pull in mold from inside of walls in apartment buildings with problems. On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 9:54 AM, jill1313 <jenbooks13@...> wrote: > Thanks Jeff! That sounds disgusting about the frost free fridges. > > I did discover a little drainhole and unplugged it and water came out. > I asked my boyfriend to get me a little drain hose and a shallow > broiler pan so I can drain it without getting on my floor. He said the > pan inside must be slightly tilted. It wasn't much water considering > how hot and humid it was yesterday. I figure if, I drain it, and then > when not in use keep that plug open, I should be pretty safe. Also, I > found out that the portable works better when I keep it as close to > the window as possible rather than extending the accordion tubing out > into the room, which just puts more load on the a/c to push all that > hot air all that way. > > Thanks for testing the window fans! Well some filtering is better than > none. These fans are a testament to how sooty and dirty NYC is. I have > to clean the soot off them every couple weeks, and the ledges get > sooty too (inside ledges) because they're actively blowing gunk in. > Time to move! > > Thx again. > > __._ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 Just an exhaust and I've only had occasion to use it on 2 days. Otherwise room and window fans are okay. It will get me thru August I think but next summer I will probably sell it on CL and get a stronger one. I had read that the ones with two hoses don't do as well in very hot humid weather (over 95) and that's basically what I got it for. -- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote: > > Does your portable AC have both an air intake and an exhaust, or just > an exhaust? > > The ones with just an exhaust depressurize a space and can pull in mold > from inside of walls in apartment buildings with problems. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 > I had read that the ones with two hoses don't do as well in very > hot humid weather (over 95) and that's basically what I got it for. > I don't know why someone would say that. I don't see how it could be true. Basically the two hoses are an intake and an exhaust. If you only have an exhaust, the unit 'depressurizes' your conditioned space, as well as drawing humid air into your space through gaps in your walls. which then condenses somewhere..if the room is being cooled to below the dew point, which can be very high on humid days ! That situation could cause major problems with mold, or if someone who lives in a moldy house used a one tube unit, it could end up sucking mold into their living space in a big way! Also, two tube units are much more efficient... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 Sounds sensible Live. Perhaps it depends on design quality of unit purchased. Maybe some take in more air than they should and that makes them less efficient at cooling inside air. It could be some are not good in very hot weather due to that. Otherwise the intake and exhaust sound better. However the intake should not be drawing too much outside air. --- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote: > > > I had read that the ones with two hoses don't do as well in very > > hot humid weather (over 95) and that's basically what I got it for. > > > > I don't know why someone would say that. I don't see how it could be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 Jeff, Does the use of salt in a portable units drip tray have the same of effect of lessening microbial growth in a drip tray of an air handler? If the tray is not plastic what else might used to minimize microbial growth? Many thanks, Jac > Clean the drip tray twice a year and (only if it is > plastic) keep two > tablespoons of salt in it to prevent microbial growth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 Barb, The air that both comes in and goes out of the hoses of a good, two-hose unit, should not be going into or coming out of your home's air - *its used in the heat exchanger* In an air conditioner, there are two sets of coils and fans, inside and outside.. I'm very surprised that you don't know that. The one hose units are not only wasting a lot of energy- they also depressurize a home.. " sucking " air in, as it were.. often moist, humid air.. NOT GOOD... On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 9:18 AM, barb1283 <barb1283@...> wrote: > Sounds sensible Live. Perhaps it depends on design quality of unit > purchased. Maybe some take in more air than they should and that makes > them less efficient at cooling inside air. It could be some are not > good in very hot weather due to that. Otherwise the intake and exhaust > sound better. However the intake should not be drawing too much > outside air. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 No, I don't know how they work. I wonder why people's experience with the two hose type are not good then. --- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote: >ey also depressurize a home.. " sucking " air in, as it were.. > > often moist, humid air.. > > NOT GOOD... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 From my initial reading, ikt depends where you live. Two hose are less effective once you get into the 90's and humid. That's the main issue where I want one here in NY. I can tolerate up to 90 pretty easily. It's once I get into the 90's and esp mid 90s when its humid that it gets unpleasant. And when we had that heatwave with heat index of 102 that was quite unpleasant. Spot swamp coolers would work better in dry climates. And the one hose are supposed to work better in the above conditions. That's why I got a one hose. Also itw as lightly used, and very clean. I'd looked at a few others, and the folks had cats/dogs, or the units were not well maintained. > >ey also depressurize a home.. " sucking " air in, as it were.. > > > > often moist, humid air.. > > > > NOT GOOD... > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 I tried to find info again, about the two hose vs one hose. Here is a site that explains: http://www.portableacguide.com/about-portable-air-conditioners.php If the two hose is drawing air from outside to cool its compressor, and you're at 95 with high humidity, that won't work as well, apparently. You're drawing some very hot humid air into the unit/room. Not sure what to do about the slight negative pressure mentioned with one hose, esp if you had a mold problem throughout the house as someone else was pointed out. OTOH since I only want the portable a/c for those occasional bad days, it seemed I should get the one hose. I suspect though it's all rather subtle differences. I will say I really like how " clean " the unit is though I think I need a stronger one and its a bit noisy. I wouldn't want to sleep with it. I did discover putting it right up to the window is important. Yes the hose can stretch out but you're just wasting the unit's energy if you make it pump its hot air six feet instead of two feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 In general, portable air conditioners are much less efficient than mini-split or even window types.. The two hose (balanced) units are far better than the one hose.. On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:56 PM, barb1283 <barb1283@...> wrote: > No, I don't know how they work. I wonder why people's experience with > the two hose type are not good then. > > > >ey also depressurize a home.. " sucking " air in, as it were.. > > > > often moist, humid air.. > > > > NOT GOOD... > > > > _ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 Thanks. That is what I said in first place. Two hoses are dragging hot, humid air into a/c unit. Live didn't get what I was saying. Maybe I didn't explain it well. > > I tried to find info again, about the two hose vs one hose. Here is a > site that explains: > > http://www.portableacguide.com/about-portable-air-conditioners.php > > If the two hose is drawing air from outside to cool its compressor, > and you're at 95 with high humidity, that won't work as well, > apparently. You're drawing some very hot humid air into the unit/room. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Its not the two hose portable ACs that draw air in from outside, its the ONE hose units. The two hose units are typically balanced, (they use the outside air to cool the inside air, but they don't require that you connect the two) so they don't depressurize. Thats why they are more efficient. Mini-split type units are also balanced, inherently, because they don't connect the part that goes outside and the part that goes inside, AIR-wise.. (its just refrigerant that flows in the insulated tubes, and they are sealed) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Do the mini-split units have a part that sits outside the house completely? --- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote: > Mini-split type units are also balanced, inherently, because they > don't connect the part that goes outside and the part that goes > inside, AIR-wise.. > > (its just refrigerant that flows in the insulated tubes, and they are sealed) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 From what I've read the one hose draws air from the room and cools it and puts it back into the room. However the one hose creates a slight negative pressure. Somebody said if you had a very moldy home and had the a/c in a " safe " room that you could theoretically draw mold spores into that safe room, which is a reasonable point. OTOH the one hose is supposedly better in very hot humid weather. The reason is that in extremely hot humid weather, the two hose draws in outside air to cool the air conditioner and then vents that air back outside, supposedly. So it's bringing very hot humid air into the unit and so in a heatwave, like 95 plus and super high humidity, that's going to be inefficient. Now, one reason I got a portable was so I didn't have a window a/c sitting there getting all that outside dirty air into it (NYC) along with standing water I could do nothing about. I liked the fact that the unit was basically self contained in my room except for venting one hose to the outside. I also like that I can empty the water daily through the drain hole so it never builds up. It *is* noisy--I didn't get a top of the line one that would be quieter. Here is another faq to help clarify: http://www.sylvane.com/FAQS/portable-ac-faq.html What is the difference between a single hose design and a dual hose design? Some portable air conditioners have one air exhaust hose and some have two air hoses, one for air intake and one for air exhaust. A single hose unit will take air from the room that it is in and return most of that air back into the room as cold conditioned air. However, a small amount of that air will be used to cool the unit and be blown out of the air conditioner's exhaust hose. This results in a slight negative pressure in the room being cooled as a small amount of air is constantly being removed from the room. If this negative pressure is adjusted for by drawing unconditioned air into the room from adjacent spaces then the cooling efficiency is slightly affected. A dual hose unit works by taking in air from the outside through one of its hoses and using that air to cool the unit - and then that hot air is expelled through the exhaust hose. As such, it does not create negative pressure inside the room being cooled. However dual hose units use warmer unconditioned air to cool their compressors which results in slightly less efficiency and also use two fans internally which results in slightly higher energy usage.At this time, we have not seen conclusive evidence that either solution, single vs. dual hose, is better than the other when all factors are considered. --- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote: > > Its not the two hose portable ACs that draw air in from outside, its > the ONE hose units. > > The two hose units are typically balanced, (they use the outside air > to cool the inside air, but they don't require that you connect the > two) so they don't depressurize. > > Thats why they are more efficient. > > Mini-split type units are also balanced, inherently, because they > don't connect the part that goes outside and the part that goes > inside, AIR-wise.. > > (its just refrigerant that flows in the insulated tubes, and they are sealed) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Barb, Yes, they do. There is a good diagram at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_conditioner that shows how air conditioners work. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Heatpump.svg There is NO need for any air conditioner to conect the " conditioned space " and the outdoors, air wise.. The refrigerant circulates between the two.. On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 10:40 AM, barb1283 <barb1283@...> wrote: > Do the mini-split units have a part that sits outside the house > completely? > > > >> Mini-split type units are also balanced, inherently, because they >> don't connect the part that goes outside and the part that goes >> inside, AIR-wise.. >> >> (its just refrigerant that flows in the insulated tubes, and they are > sealed) >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 ....so which one would be best would vary from location to location, depending on where make up air would be coming from. If you wanted to use it in bedroom of house that has central air to make bedroom only cooler and house, most likely make up would come through door from rest of house and not bad; if room is air leaky to interior walls or outside through bad windows you could draw in bad air or draw in the heat and humidity you are trying to cool. It may be hard to know which would work out best without trying. If return policy was good, you could try and see how you do in the weather you need it most. Slightly positive pressure is best but if many people say they don't cool when they need to, then people's experience is important to consider. Sometimes things don't work the way they were designed to work. > > From what I've read the one hose draws air from the room and cools it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Thanks I think someone priced out one of these for my enclosed patio and it was about $5k installed, which was the same price as I was quoted for a new central air, so quit expensive, compared to a through-the-wall a/c with filter for patio was about $1k installed, less if you d-i-y. Interesting though. The small indoor a/c's though with two hoses may be trying to duplicate this twin mini effect but doing it poorly, if inside of condenser gets too hot due to heat and humidity coming in from outside, it could transfer that heat by some OTHER means even though air currents don't touch, by conduction, so that cooling is diminished. I don't question that trying to establish equal or positive pressure is good but they might just not work well as planned for this or other reason as I do believe word from people who have used them is some indication that they may not be living up to their goal of cooling air effectively even though in theory the two hoses is designed to be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Barb, except that any " one tube " portable air conditioner is *never* going to be 'the best' or even 'acceptable' compared to a unit that has both the intake and an exhaust for the 'outside' part of the heat exchanger - outside.... A 'one tube' unit is ALWAYS going to be sucking air from the conditioned space to force the heat out, and that air HAS to be made up by pulling IN (often humid, always hot) air from outside.. somewhere.. Otherwise, it would be attempting to create a vacumn! i.e. " depressurizing " a home.. not unlike a strong exhaust fan - like a vent hood..running.. In the winter, these situations end up causing backdrafting of combustion appliances, which can actually be dangerous. In the summer, THAT is less likely to happen, but its still is a very wasteful situation.. because of the inherent condensation, its also bad for the structure of a home.. (as well as a situation that could potentially cause mold) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 The actual cost of the hardware for mini-splits can be as low as $600 Ive heard. We don't own either (portable or mini-split..) I was asking about portable ACs because we were thinking about getting one for our upstairs room.. (if we could find a good two-tube one that was easy to clean..) The mini-splits are pretty efficient and I think that ultimately they would be much cheaper than portable anything for that reason alone.. But the price can vary... They don't seem very common here in the US but overseas they are basically everywhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 > > OTOH the one hose is supposedly better in very hot humid weather. The > reason is that in extremely hot humid weather, the two hose draws in > outside air to cool the air conditioner and then vents that air back > outside, supposedly. So it's bringing very hot humid air into the unit > and so in a heatwave, like 95 plus and super high humidity, that's > going to be inefficient. ******************* You just described a typical summer day in central NC! That is why I got a one hose unit. I leave one window cracked open to allow the AC to draw in relatively clean outdoor air from near the unit, which of course makes it less efficient, but I hope this helps keep mold from being drawn into the room. Judith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I think it's the installation that makes quote high. They told me the only thing I would see on enclosed patio would be the vent that the cool air would come in, so everything is outside or in the walls. Maybe they quoted me something that was TOTALLY outside. I'd have to check. Anyway, I'm considering a window unit as much as I hate them. Seems the price is low and from discussion probably cool better. --- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote: > > The actual cost of the hardware for mini-splits can be as low as $600 Ive heard. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I have a question about these portable AC units. We live in MD and many times during the summer lose power due to storms. We have a generator but it will not run the central AC. I was thinking about getting a portable AC to have on hand in case of power failure. The question is are they safe to use for a short time when the power goes out? Opening the windows and letting all the humid air in scares me to death!! Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I honestly find my portable a/c with one hose fine except that 1) It's too noisy (ie for sleeping at night, annoying) 2) I should've gotten more BTU as my master bedroom is high ceilings and fairly large. My friend has the same Amana but 12000 btu not 7000 and it cools her master bedroom to 70 degrees. I find the unit VERY clean which is the nicest part compared to window a/c's which even when I drilled holes and even purchasing NEW ones every summer (but now with greater MCS that is not a good idea) that they molded within a month or so. Maybe I didn't have a MERV 8 filter but in any case the dirty smoggy city air, the incredible humidity, the fact that standing water always ended up in the a/c no matter what, and then the fluctuating temperatures let that moisture and standing water get mold/bacteria which then blew through the unit--I was never able to get the kind of clean air I'm getting from the portable. Again I think it depends where you live. NYC summers can be quite hot and humid and Manhattan air very noxious at times. The other issue is ease of use. It takes 2 seconds to wheel that thing in, put the metal casing with the one hose on and presto. Its really easy to use and I don't like having window a/c's in my windows permanently anyway as they destroy my view. Also once the window a/c molds over a bit, even when it's not in use the spores will blow in on the wind. Theoretically 2 hose are better in many situations but one hose is okay. The lessons I learned are 1) Get more btu--they are just not as efficient as window a/c's 2) Consider spending more $ for a quiet model (I hear that SHARP is very quiet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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