Re: Air conditioner cleaning and adding WEB filter

[Guest guest]

Judith,

I have used these filters for year. They will not be a problem. Tape

to the indoor intake grille and be sure there is no bypass.

In my opinion, the filters supplied by all manufactures are so

inadequate that the situation borders on negligence.

You are not trying to filter out mold spores. You are filtering out

the dust particles that accumulate on the A/C coil and themselves get

moldy because the coil is constantly wet. The Web filter material is

about MERV 7, slightly less than ideal but adequate.

We always replaced them every year, never washed them because they

can't be cleaned adequately.

Web makes this filter for the portable A/C's, so I don't know what

they are worried about:

http://www.webproducts.com/Detail.bok?no=60

May

Author, " Jeff May's Healthy Home Tips "

www.mayindoorair.www

________________________________________________________________________

> 2. Air conditioner cleaning and adding WEB filters--questions

> Posted by: " howdeeeyall@... " howdeeeyall@... howdeeeyall

> Date: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:06 am ((PDT))

>

>

> Jeff, I just bought a small, portable AC unit, 12,000 BTUs, and I want to

> add a WEB or similar filter to it. My house may have hidden mold, as I have

> biotoxin symptoms, and occasionally smell a faint musty odor. I

> will probably

> have to tape the filter on the outside of the AC unit.

>

> I looked at the WEB Products website, and called them for recommendations.

> I was told that their filters might restrict air flow and burn out

> the motor.

> I don't know how this AC motor compares to a more standard window unit.

>

> What do you think--is this likely? Would a higher MERV number restrict air

> flow more? What MERV rating is best for filtering out mold spores?

>

> I plan to use the AC as a dehumidifier as well as for cooling. This latest

> batch of rainstorms has made the house much more humid. Not good.

> So I need

> to figure this out right away.

>

> Thank you.

>

> Judith

>

> Jeff May posted:

>

> Surella,

>

> The mold is inevitable if you use the filter that came with the A/C as

> these filters are all completely inadequate. After thorough

> cleaning/disinfecticleaning/disinfecti<WBR>ng you must purchase WEB p

> and cut it to fit. This is a MERV-7 filter (MERV 8 is preferable but

> not available). The filter probably does not fit inside the A/C filter

> holder so it will probably have to be placed over the front intake,

> taped in place so that there is no air bypass.

>

> May

> Author, " Jeff May's Healthy Home Tips "

> www.mayindoorair.www

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jeff and others, I recieved this filter last week. Suprised at the quality for

the price right away. I was able to actually put it inside the grill of the

aircontitioner since mine happened to have onough room and its size allows me to

have a replacement with a little extra.

 

Thank you vey much for this recomendation and I will also join Jeff in

recomending this as a wonderful product. As far as cleaning, for the 7 dollars

it cost I see no reason whatsoever to even bother. As far as less than adequate,

the wat I see it is it is the best I have found for my window unit and puts

anything alse I have tried to shame so It is a very adequate option in

comparison.

 

Thanks Jeff,

Chris...

From: May <jeff@...>

Subject: [] Re: Air conditioner cleaning and adding WEB filter

Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 5:51 PM

Judith,

I have used these filters for year. They will not be a problem. Tape

to the indoor intake grille and be sure there is no bypass.

In my opinion, the filters supplied by all manufactures are so

inadequate that the situation borders on negligence.

You are not trying to filter out mold spores. You are filtering out

the dust particles that accumulate on the A/C coil and themselves get

moldy because the coil is constantly wet. The Web filter material is

about MERV 7, slightly less than ideal but adequate.

We always replaced them every year, never washed them because they

can't be cleaned adequately.

Web makes this filter for the portable A/C's, so I don't know what

they are worried about:

http://www.webprodu cts.com/Detail. bok?no=60

May

Author, " Jeff May's Healthy Home Tips "

www.mayindoorair. www

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> 2. Air conditioner cleaning and adding WEB filters--questions

> Posted by: " howdeeeyall@ aol.com " howdeeeyall@ aol.com howdeeeyall

> Date: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:06 am ((PDT))

>

>

> Jeff, I just bought a small, portable AC unit, 12,000 BTUs, and I want to

> add a WEB or similar filter to it. My house may have hidden mold, as I have

> biotoxin symptoms, and occasionally smell a faint musty odor. I

> will probably

> have to tape the filter on the outside of the AC unit.

>

> I looked at the WEB Products website, and called them for recommendations.

> I was told that their filters might restrict air flow and burn out

> the motor.

> I don't know how this AC motor compares to a more standard window unit.

>

> What do you think--is this likely? Would a higher MERV number restrict air

> flow more? What MERV rating is best for filtering out mold spores?

>

> I plan to use the AC as a dehumidifier as well as for cooling. This latest

> batch of rainstorms has made the house much more humid. Not good.

> So I need

> to figure this out right away.

>

> Thank you.

>

> Judith

>

> Jeff May posted:

>

> Surella,

>

> The mold is inevitable if you use the filter that came with the A/C as

> these filters are all completely inadequate. After thorough

> cleaning/disinfecti cleaning/ disinfecti< WBR>ng you must purchase WEB p

> and cut it to fit. This is a MERV-7 filter (MERV 8 is preferable but

> not available). The filter probably does not fit inside the A/C filter

> holder so it will probably have to be placed over the front intake,

> taped in place so that there is no air bypass.

>

> May

> Author, " Jeff May's Healthy Home Tips "

> www.mayindoorair. www

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jeff,

What about the Web products " Web Absorber " - which is supposed to be

MERV 9 and has an activated charcoal layer?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Judith,

>

> I have used these filters for year. They will not be a problem.

Tape

> to the indoor intake grille and be sure there is no bypass.

>

> In my opinion, the filters supplied by all manufactures are so

> inadequate that the situation borders on negligence.

>

> You are not trying to filter out mold spores. You are filtering

out

> the dust particles that accumulate on the A/C coil and themselves

get

> moldy because the coil is constantly wet. The Web filter material

is

> about MERV 7, slightly less than ideal but adequate.

>

Hey, just a minute here. This information is not accurate. What coil

is constantly wet? The fan coils? the evaporator coils?

You are intentionally misleading people. I joined this group to see

what people are saying, and the first thing I read is BOGUS.

What gives?

> We always replaced them every year, never washed them because they

> can't be cleaned adequately.

>

> Web makes this filter for the portable A/C's, so I don't know what

> they are worried about:

>

> http://www.webproducts.com/Detail.bok?no=60

>

> May

> Author, " Jeff May's Healthy Home Tips "

> www.mayindoorair.www

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

__

> > 2. Air conditioner cleaning and adding WEB filters--questions

> > Posted by: " howdeeeyall@... " howdeeeyall@... howdeeeyall

> > Date: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:06 am ((PDT))

> >

> >

> > Jeff, I just bought a small, portable AC unit, 12,000 BTUs, and

I want to

> > add a WEB or similar filter to it. My house may have hidden

mold, as I have

> > biotoxin symptoms, and occasionally smell a faint musty odor.

I

> > will probably

> > have to tape the filter on the outside of the AC unit.

> >

> > I looked at the WEB Products website, and called them for

recommendations.

> > I was told that their filters might restrict air flow and burn

out

> > the motor.

> > I don't know how this AC motor compares to a more standard

window unit.

> >

> > What do you think--is this likely? Would a higher MERV number

restrict air

> > flow more? What MERV rating is best for filtering out mold

spores?

> >

> > I plan to use the AC as a dehumidifier as well as for cooling.

This latest

> > batch of rainstorms has made the house much more humid. Not

good.

> > So I need

> > to figure this out right away.

> >

> > Thank you.

> >

> > Judith

> >

> > Jeff May posted:

> >

> > Surella,

> >

> > The mold is inevitable if you use the filter that came with the

A/C as

> > these filters are all completely inadequate. After thorough

> > cleaning/disinfecticleaning/disinfecti<WBR>ng you must purchase

WEB p

> > and cut it to fit. This is a MERV-7 filter (MERV 8 is preferable

but

> > not available). The filter probably does not fit inside the A/C

filter

> > holder so it will probably have to be placed over the front

intake,

> > taped in place so that there is no air bypass.

> >

> > May

> > Author, " Jeff May's Healthy Home Tips "

> > www.mayindoorair.www

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Jeff and thanks for the info and feedback. I will get that

filter pad. It may not fit inside the filter slot in my little

machine, but I can probably tape it to the outside.

Jeff, I totally agree with you about the filters that come with the

machines. Mine is laughably indadequate.

Judith

>

> From: May <jeff@...>

> Subject: [] Re: Air conditioner cleaning and adding

WEB filter

>

> Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 5:51 PM

>

> Judith,

>

> I have used these filters for year. They will not be a problem.

Tape

> to the indoor intake grille and be sure there is no bypass.

>

> In my opinion, the filters supplied by all manufactures are so

> inadequate that the situation borders on negligence.

>

> You are not trying to filter out mold spores. You are filtering out

> the dust particles that accumulate on the A/C coil and themselves

get

> moldy because the coil is constantly wet. The Web filter material

is

> about MERV 7, slightly less than ideal but adequate.

>

> We always replaced them every year, never washed them because they

> can't be cleaned adequately.

>

> Web makes this filter for the portable A/C's, so I don't know what

> they are worried about:

>

> http://www.webprodu cts.com/Detail. bok?no=60

>

> May

> Author, " Jeff May's Healthy Home Tips "

> www.mayindoorair. www

>

[Guest guest]

All:

Thank you all for your support.

I think I can explain the difference of opinion.

My critic probably comes from a dry part of the country, where

an A/C primarily cools the air and does not have to remove much

moisture from the air.

ly, I never thought about this. If you are running an AC in the

desert, you may not even need a drip pan. (Depends on the dew point of

the air).

For most areas in the country, especially the South and East Coast,

the evaporator coil is always wet and there is condensed water

dripping from the A/C. (You have all seen this!)

I have taken samples from hundreds and hundreds of A/C systems on the

East Coast and mold growth in the dust on the coil (and surrounding

insulation) is a real problem!

May

Author, " Jeff May's Healthy Home Tips "

www.mayindoorair.www

> ________________________________________________________________________

> 11d. Re: Air conditioner cleaning and adding WEB filter

> Posted by: " richard dale plumb " bboppalou@... bboppalou

> Date: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:24 pm ((PDT))

>

>

>>

>> Judith,

>>

>> I have used these filters for year. They will not be a problem.

> Tape

>> to the indoor intake grille and be sure there is no bypass.

>>

>> In my opinion, the filters supplied by all manufactures are so

>> inadequate that the situation borders on negligence.

>>

>> You are not trying to filter out mold spores. You are filtering

> out

>> the dust particles that accumulate on the A/C coil and themselves

> get

>> moldy because the coil is constantly wet. The Web filter material

> is

>> about MERV 7, slightly less than ideal but adequate.

>>

> Hey, just a minute here. This information is not accurate. What coil

> is constantly wet? The fan coils? the evaporator coils?

> You are intentionally misleading people. I joined this group to see

> what people are saying, and the first thing I read is BOGUS.

> What gives?

>> We always replaced them every year, never washed them because they

>> can't be cleaned adequately.

>>

>> Web makes this filter for the portable A/C's, so I don't know what

>> they are worried about:

>>

>> http://www.webproducts.com/Detail.bok?no=60

>>

>> May

>> Author, " Jeff May's Healthy Home Tips "

>> www.mayindoorair.www

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Jeff,

Good point about different climates. In Colorado, which is semi-

arid, mold growth on cooling coils isn't as much of a problem as

where you live but still occurs. Even with 95F at only 20% RH the

dew point is still 47F, which will easily condense water on the

coils. The drip pans will still be wet and must be properly

positioned to completely drain. A clogged drain can cause havoc.

Mold and bacteria also forms as a sticky layer of " plaque " that

can be difficult to remove.

Just this week I had a house with A/C only that was contaminated

from mold in a wet crawlspace. Spores circulated through the

ducting and onto the wet cooling coils creating an additional

location of mold growth.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> All:

>

> Thank you all for your support.

>

> I think I can explain the difference of opinion.

>

> My critic probably comes from a dry part of the country, where

> an A/C primarily cools the air and does not have to remove much

> moisture from the air.

>

> ly, I never thought about this. If you are running an AC in the

> desert, you may not even need a drip pan. (Depends on the dew point of

> the air).

>

> For most areas in the country, especially the South and East Coast,

> the evaporator coil is always wet and there is condensed water

> dripping from the A/C. (You have all seen this!)

>

> I have taken samples from hundreds and hundreds of A/C systems on the

> East Coast and mold growth in the dust on the coil (and surrounding

> insulation) is a real problem!

>

> May

> Author, " Jeff May's Healthy Home Tips "

> www.mayindoorair.www

>

>

>

> > ________________________________________________________________________

> > 11d. Re: Air conditioner cleaning and adding WEB filter

> > Posted by: " richard dale plumb " bboppalou@... bboppalou

> > Date: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:24 pm ((PDT))

> >

> >

> >>

> >> Judith,

> >>

> >> I have used these filters for year. They will not be a problem.

> > Tape

> >> to the indoor intake grille and be sure there is no bypass.

> >>

> >> In my opinion, the filters supplied by all manufactures are so

> >> inadequate that the situation borders on negligence.

> >>

> >> You are not trying to filter out mold spores. You are filtering

> > out

> >> the dust particles that accumulate on the A/C coil and themselves

> > get

> >> moldy because the coil is constantly wet. The Web filter material

> > is

> >> about MERV 7, slightly less than ideal but adequate.

> >>

> > Hey, just a minute here. This information is not accurate. What coil

> > is constantly wet? The fan coils? the evaporator coils?

> > You are intentionally misleading people. I joined this group to see

> > what people are saying, and the first thing I read is BOGUS.

> > What gives?

> >> We always replaced them every year, never washed them because they

> >> can't be cleaned adequately.

> >>

> >> Web makes this filter for the portable A/C's, so I don't know what

> >> they are worried about:

> >>

> >> http://www.webproducts.com/Detail.bok?no=60

> >>

> >> May

> >> Author, " Jeff May's Healthy Home Tips "

> >> www.mayindoorair.www

> >>

> >>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

[Guest guest]

This brings up a question I had never even given thought to. Especially here in

the southeast what about the drain pipes that drain the condesation from the

unit. Would it not make sence that in time there would be some sort of growth in

the pipes being constantly wet and dark. And if that is the case then would it

not be recomended to put vinager or other solutions either in the pump or

through the lines on a regular basis if for no other reason saftey measures??

Just a thought.

From: Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...>

Subject: Re: [] Re:Re: Air conditioner cleaning and adding WEB

filter

Date: Thursday, July 17, 2008, 10:14 PM

Jeff,

Good point about different climates. In Colorado, which is semi-

arid, mold growth on cooling coils isn't as much of a problem as

where you live but still occurs. Even with 95F at only 20% RH the

dew point is still 47F, which will easily condense water on the

coils. The drip pans will still be wet and must be properly

positioned to completely drain. A clogged drain can cause havoc.

Mold and bacteria also forms as a sticky layer of " plaque " that

can be difficult to remove.

Just this week I had a house with A/C only that was contaminated

from mold in a wet crawlspace. Spores circulated through the

ducting and onto the wet cooling coils creating an additional

location of mold growth.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> All:

>

> Thank you all for your support.

>

> I think I can explain the difference of opinion.

>

> My critic probably comes from a dry part of the country, where

> an A/C primarily cools the air and does not have to remove much

> moisture from the air.

>

> ly, I never thought about this. If you are running an AC in the

> desert, you may not even need a drip pan. (Depends on the dew point of

> the air).

>

> For most areas in the country, especially the South and East Coast,

> the evaporator coil is always wet and there is condensed water

> dripping from the A/C. (You have all seen this!)

>

> I have taken samples from hundreds and hundreds of A/C systems on the

> East Coast and mold growth in the dust on the coil (and surrounding

> insulation) is a real problem!

>

> May

> Author, " Jeff May's Healthy Home Tips "

> www.mayindoorair. www

>

>

>

> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> > 11d. Re: Air conditioner cleaning and adding WEB filter

> > Posted by: " richard dale plumb " bboppalou (DOT) com bboppalou

> > Date: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:24 pm ((PDT))

> >

> >

> >>

> >> Judith,

> >>

> >> I have used these filters for year. They will not be a problem.

> > Tape

> >> to the indoor intake grille and be sure there is no bypass.

> >>

> >> In my opinion, the filters supplied by all manufactures are so

> >> inadequate that the situation borders on negligence.

> >>

> >> You are not trying to filter out mold spores. You are filtering

> > out

> >> the dust particles that accumulate on the A/C coil and themselves

> > get

> >> moldy because the coil is constantly wet. The Web filter material

> > is

> >> about MERV 7, slightly less than ideal but adequate.

> >>

> > Hey, just a minute here. This information is not accurate. What coil

> > is constantly wet? The fan coils? the evaporator coils?

> > You are intentionally misleading people. I joined this group to see

> > what people are saying, and the first thing I read is BOGUS.

> > What gives?

> >> We always replaced them every year, never washed them because they

> >> can't be cleaned adequately.

> >>

> >> Web makes this filter for the portable A/C's, so I don't know what

> >> they are worried about:

> >>

> >> http://www.webprodu cts.com/Detail. bok?no=60

> >>

> >> May

> >> Author, " Jeff May's Healthy Home Tips "

> >> www.mayindoorair. www

> >>

> >>

>

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ok, last post, I promise.

Mr. May is indeed much more experienced than I. I say that sincerely. And to him

I want say this: Sir, you are a class act and someone who is to be applauded for

your efforts.

So long for now.

From: May <jeff@...>

Subject: [] Re:Re: Air conditioner cleaning and adding WEB filter

Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 12:49 AM

All:

Thank you all for your support.

I think I can explain the difference of opinion.

My critic probably comes from a dry part of the country, where

an A/C primarily cools the air and does not have to remove much

moisture from the air.

ly, I never thought about this. If you are running an AC in the

desert, you may not even need a drip pan. (Depends on the dew point of

the air).

For most areas in the country, especially the South and East Coast,

the evaporator coil is always wet and there is condensed water

dripping from the A/C. (You have all seen this!)

I have taken samples from hundreds and hundreds of A/C systems on the

East Coast and mold growth in the dust on the coil (and surrounding

insulation) is a real problem!

May

Author, " Jeff May's Healthy Home Tips "

www.mayindoorair. www

> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> 11d. Re: Air conditioner cleaning and adding WEB filter

> Posted by: " richard dale plumb " bboppalou (DOT) com bboppalou

> Date: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:24 pm ((PDT))

>

>

>>

>> Judith,

>>

>> I have used these filters for year. They will not be a problem.

> Tape

>> to the indoor intake grille and be sure there is no bypass.

>>

>> In my opinion, the filters supplied by all manufactures are so

>> inadequate that the situation borders on negligence.

>>

>> You are not trying to filter out mold spores. You are filtering

> out

>> the dust particles that accumulate on the A/C coil and themselves

> get

>> moldy because the coil is constantly wet. The Web filter material

> is

>> about MERV 7, slightly less than ideal but adequate.

>>

> Hey, just a minute here. This information is not accurate. What coil

> is constantly wet? The fan coils? the evaporator coils?

> You are intentionally misleading people. I joined this group to see

> what people are saying, and the first thing I read is BOGUS.

> What gives?

>> We always replaced them every year, never washed them because they

>> can't be cleaned adequately.

>>

>> Web makes this filter for the portable A/C's, so I don't know what

>> they are worried about:

>>

>> http://www.webprodu cts.com/Detail. bok?no=60

>>

>> May

>> Author, " Jeff May's Healthy Home Tips "

>> www.mayindoorair. www

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

How nice that was...and I have to agree, Mr May is a class above most

in his field. I say that also to Carl!!! and I Thank you both for

giving up your time to this group, as we well know you could be

indulging in more exciting things, rather than spend time with

us " sickies " . I'd like to thank also Mr Haney for his

contributions....And geeeee while I still have the megaphone....and

noone has kicked the soapbox out from under me yet.... Dr.

Thrasher!!! A BIG OLE THANKS to YOU TOO! (and really, WE ALL need to

give ourselves a pat on the back. As sick as we are, we prove

ourselves to be resilliant and slowly but surley we are making a

difference. If it's just to put a smile on someones face, the day has

not been lost.

--- In , richard plumb <bboppalou@...>

wrote:

>

> Ok, last post, I promise.

> Mr. May is indeed much more experienced than I. I say that

sincerely. And to him I want say this: Sir, you are a class act and

someone who is to be applauded for your efforts.

> So long for now.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, the drain lines can become clogged with debris and the

growth of mold and bacteria. They should be checked

periodically. Vinegar may or may not work as the " substance " is

sometimes sticky much like what grows on the cooling coil. Also,

if the clogged lines significantly slow down the removal of water

from the pan, then there is more moisture in the pan for longer

times for more growth. The moving air can sometimes blow the

standing water downstream creating more growth patterns,

especially if the plenum or ducting has insulation on the inside

surfaces.

This is another example of how something as simple as moisture

and mold can become overwhelmingly complex. I don't mean to

do that but I did in order to meaningfully answer your relevant

question.

Here's a quote from the new American Industrial Hygiene

Association (AIHA) book " Recognition, Evaluation and Control of

Indoor Mold: "

Air conditioners can dehumidify the indoor air by

condensing water out of the air and draining it away.

There is a wide variation in the ability of air conditioners to

dehumidify. Things that increase an air conditioner's

ability to dehumidify include coil temperatures in the

range of 55For less (but not cool enough to freeze or

cause condensation on the outside of equipment or

pipes) and longer runtimes (air conditioners do not

dehumidify well until they run 40% of each hour).

Before you ask, the book is available from AIHA's Web site

www.aiha.org and because it is intended for professionals (?) the

cost is $160. I'll cite it occasionally as the questions warrant.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

> This brings up a question I had never even given thought to. Especially here

in the southeast what about the drain pipes that drain the condesation from the

unit. Would it not make sence that in time there would be some sort of growth in

the pipes being constantly wet and dark. And if that is the case then would it

not be recomended to put vinager or other solutions either in the pump or

through the lines on a regular basis if for no other reason saftey measures??

> Just a thought.

>

>

>

> From: Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...>

> Subject: Re: [] Re:Re: Air conditioner cleaning and adding WEB

filter

>

> Date: Thursday, July 17, 2008, 10:14 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Jeff,

>

> Good point about different climates. In Colorado, which is semi-

> arid, mold growth on cooling coils isn't as much of a problem as

> where you live but still occurs. Even with 95F at only 20% RH the

> dew point is still 47F, which will easily condense water on the

> coils. The drip pans will still be wet and must be properly

> positioned to completely drain. A clogged drain can cause havoc.

> Mold and bacteria also forms as a sticky layer of " plaque " that

> can be difficult to remove.

>

> Just this week I had a house with A/C only that was contaminated

> from mold in a wet crawlspace. Spores circulated through the

> ducting and onto the wet cooling coils creating an additional

> location of mold growth.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> > All:

> >

> > Thank you all for your support.

> >

> > I think I can explain the difference of opinion.

> >

> > My critic probably comes from a dry part of the country, where

> > an A/C primarily cools the air and does not have to remove much

> > moisture from the air.

> >

> > ly, I never thought about this. If you are running an AC in the

> > desert, you may not even need a drip pan. (Depends on the dew point of

> > the air).

> >

> > For most areas in the country, especially the South and East Coast,

> > the evaporator coil is always wet and there is condensed water

> > dripping from the A/C. (You have all seen this!)

> >

> > I have taken samples from hundreds and hundreds of A/C systems on the

> > East Coast and mold growth in the dust on the coil (and surrounding

> > insulation) is a real problem!

> >

> > May

> > Author, " Jeff May's Healthy Home Tips "

> > www.mayindoorair. www

> >

> >

> >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> > > 11d. Re: Air conditioner cleaning and adding WEB filter

> > > Posted by: " richard dale plumb " bboppalou (DOT) com bboppalou

> > > Date: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:24 pm ((PDT))

> > >

> > >

> > >>

> > >> Judith,

> > >>

> > >> I have used these filters for year. They will not be a problem.

> > > Tape

> > >> to the indoor intake grille and be sure there is no bypass.

> > >>

> > >> In my opinion, the filters supplied by all manufactures are so

> > >> inadequate that the situation borders on negligence.

> > >>

> > >> You are not trying to filter out mold spores. You are filtering

> > > out

> > >> the dust particles that accumulate on the A/C coil and themselves

> > > get

> > >> moldy because the coil is constantly wet. The Web filter material

> > > is

> > >> about MERV 7, slightly less than ideal but adequate.

> > >>

> > > Hey, just a minute here. This information is not accurate. What coil

> > > is constantly wet? The fan coils? the evaporator coils?

> > > You are intentionally misleading people. I joined this group to see

> > > what people are saying, and the first thing I read is BOGUS.

> > > What gives?

> > >> We always replaced them every year, never washed them because they

> > >> can't be cleaned adequately.

> > >>

> > >> Web makes this filter for the portable A/C's, so I don't know what

> > >> they are worried about:

> > >>

> > >> http://www.webprodu cts.com/Detail. bok?no=60

> > >>

> > >> May

> > >> Author, " Jeff May's Healthy Home Tips "

> > >> www.mayindoorair. www

> > >>

> > >>

> >

> >

> > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> >

> > FAIR USE NOTICE:

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I can't afford to ever not be reading here!! After reading air

conditioner thread it just occured to me that NEW mildew odor in my

basement seems to kick up most when air goes on, and so I should check

on a/c coil as a possible source. They are serviced every year and are

never dirty and only small amount of water in pan. However I ran down

and opened a/c coil box and found my a/c backed up with water to rim

and black junk clinging to side of pan...something I have never had in

this house before!!! My a/c system has a pretty good filter system and

coils always looked clean. Anyway, now it's more or less an emergency

to get this fixed as we are having a hot, humid weather streak, and I

can't have mold blowing through my home heating and air system...!!! I

wonder if I could put chlorox in pan to see if it will more or

less 'eat' through whatever gunk is clogged up somewhere. I turned off

my system and will call for service morning, but I doubt they will be

able to come out right away tomorrow and then next day is the weekend.

If I had not been reading the thread, I probably would not have

connected mildew smell with possible a/c problems since my a/c has

worked fine for so long. I thought it was due to fact that I had

closed off vents in basement to separated basement air from rest of

house and so didn't have a source of fresh air going down there, so

ordered a better dehumidifer for down there, which was something I was

considering anyway, but!!! Talk about a timely topic for me. Thanks

to whoever brought this up!

>

> Thank you all for your support.

[Guest guest]

Carl, Do you think Chlorox put into drain pan would 'eat' away slug?

I bet what happened is I just removed the carpeting and padding in my

home and although I turned off the system and covered the one cold air

return right under where I was working, there probably was enough dirt

and dust around from that to get into the system because it is VERY

dirty job. You know THAT is an area of house that needs an *alarm*

system. We were talking about water alarms not long ago. a/c systems

should have some kind of alarm system to alert homeowners to water pans

runeth over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't believe this has

happened to me. I feel I'm being so vigilant!!!!

--- In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...>

wrote:

>

> Yes, the drain lines can become clogged with debris and the

> growth of mold and bacteria.

>

[Guest guest]

Barb, NO, NO, NO, on the bleach. I will let Carl and the others suggest

something you can get immedietly but I do know bleach can and will amplify the

problem, please do not do that.

Chris...

From: barb1283 <barb1283@...>

Subject: [] Re:Re: Air conditioner cleaning and adding WEB filter

Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 1:43 AM

Carl, Do you think Chlorox put into drain pan would 'eat' away slug?

I bet what happened is I just removed the carpeting and padding in my

home and although I turned off the system and covered the one cold air

return right under where I was working, there probably was enough dirt

and dust around from that to get into the system because it is VERY

dirty job. You know THAT is an area of house that needs an *alarm*

system. We were talking about water alarms not long ago. a/c systems

should have some kind of alarm system to alert homeowners to water pans

runeth over!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! I can't believe this has

happened to me. I feel I'm being so vigilant!!!!

--- In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...>

wrote:

>

> Yes, the drain lines can become clogged with debris and the

> growth of mold and bacteria.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Barb,

It's good to hear you identified your problem. I assume you are talking about

a central air/furnace combo. If so, it's even more important to correct this

problem, since drain pan water can overflow and corrode the inside of your

furnace. If you are lucky, the drain pan and drain lines are plastic. If so, a

monthly treatment during AC season with dilute Clorox can prevent this problem.

It can also be used to treat this problem. Even metal drain pans and drain lines

can be treated, but not so often, since this will cause some corrosion. Some AC

supply companies also sell slow release chlorine disinfectant tablets for drain

pans.

One can wonder how this can happen when good filtration is used. A few years

ago, I had a new furnace/AC installed. I spent an extra $300 for the extra thick

high efficiency filter. Before I turned the AC on, I opened the filter housing

and saw that it was not properly sealed to the AC chamber, allowing significant

unfiltered basement air into the system. Proper installation is a necessity.

Use a turkey baster to remove as much water as possible from the drain pan.

Then pour in a cup or two of Clorox diluted 1 to 10 in water. Allow it to sit

until it opens the drain line. You might need to push a wire through the drain

line to get it started. When clear, turn the AC back on and leave the house for

a few hours to get away from the Clorox odor which will fill the house. Good

luck.

Gil

Re: Air conditioner cleaning and adding WEB filterPosted by: " barb1283 "

barb1283@... barb1283Date: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:33 am ((PDT)) I can't afford

to ever not be reading here!! After reading air conditioner thread it just

occured to me that NEW mildew odor in my basement seems to kick up most when air

goes on, and so I should check on a/c coil as a possible source. They are

serviced every year and are never dirty and only small amount of water in pan.

However I ran down and opened a/c coil box and found my a/c backed up with water

to rim and black junk clinging to side of pan...something I have never had in

this house before!!! My a/c system has a pretty good filter system and coils

always looked clean. Anyway, now it's more or less an emergency to get this

fixed as we are having a hot, humid weather streak, and I can't have mold

blowing through my home heating and air system...!!! I wonder if I could put

chlorox in pan to see if it will more or less 'eat' through whatever gunk is

clogged up somewhere. I turned off my system and will call for service morning,

but I doubt they will be able to come out right away tomorrow and then next day

is the weekend. If I had not been reading the thread, I probably would not have

connected mildew smell with possible a/c problems since my a/c has worked fine

for so long. I thought it was due to fact that I had closed off vents in

basement to separated basement air from rest of house and so didn't have a

source of fresh air going down there, so ordered a better dehumidifer for down

there, which was something I was considering anyway, but!!! Talk about a timely

topic for me. Thanks to whoever brought this up!

_________________________________________________________________

Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger.

http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Ref\

resh_messenger_video_072008

[Guest guest]

I've never seen mold in the area of my AC coil pan. Now that I see

mold, how can I clean that out? I can clean the stuff I see. Actually

not that much but I could smell it strongly. I wonder if there could

be some 'under' the coils where I can't see it?

I bought one of those steam cleaners that J May recommends. However I

would think I would need to take coils out in yard to do that and don't

see any way to get them out of their housing. Do you know if coils in

a central system can be taken out, cleaned and put back in???

>

>

> Hi Barb,

>

> It's good to hear you identified your problem. I assume you are

talking about a central air/furnace combo.

[Guest guest]

, I thought the local Home Depot had the right filter, but

they didn't. I got instead the Absorber:

http://www.webproducts.com/Detail.bok?no=46

It's Merv 9 instead of MERV 7. I will use this filter temporarily

until I can order the one you recommend.

Do you think a MERV 9 filter will restrict air flow too much, and

cause the motor to burn out? I'm asking because everyone working in

stores and at the company that makes this A/C unit told me this would

happen. And yet, this filter is sold for air conditioners. But

perhaps not for a small, portable one?

You have been a big help. Thank you.

Judith

[Guest guest]

My Amana portable a/c is NOISY, and it doesn't cool a room as

effectively as a window a/c. However it runs VERY CLEAN. It was used

for a summer already and I got it used, and it runs completely clean.

No mold in it at all (I have a good nose for these things).

I know a portable a/c could get moldy too if not taken care of but, as

they say on the Allergy Buyers site, I do think these a/c's are much

less likely to get moldy than a window unit.

By the way, I've done the drilling extra holes in the window unit

thing in the past. It does help but doesn't prevent standing water

anyway, though it does help. The a/c units molded but not as badly.

Otherwise they could get moldy in just a few weeks.

>

> , I thought the local Home Depot had the right filter, but

> they didn't. I got instead the Absorber:

>

> http://www.webproducts.com/Detail.bok?no=46

>

> It's Merv 9 instead of MERV 7. I will use this filter temporarily

> until I can order the one you recommend.

>

> Do you think a MERV 9 filter will restrict air flow too much, and

> cause the motor to burn out? I'm asking because everyone working in

> stores and at the company that makes this A/C unit told me this would

> happen. And yet, this filter is sold for air conditioners. But

> perhaps not for a small, portable one?

>

> You have been a big help. Thank you.

>

> Judith

>

[Guest guest]

Judith,

Someone else on the board did the same thing and encountered no

problem. The other Web filter, made specifically for window A/C's is

MERV 7.

Switch when you have the correct filter.

If you have taped the MERV-9 material into place and the unit appears

to be operating OK, I would not worry too much.

Dealing with a mold health problem is more expensive than replacing an

AC anyway.

May

May Indoor Air Investigations

www.mayindoorair.com

________________________________________________________________________

> 9a. Re: Air conditioner cleaning and adding WEB filter

> Posted by: " Judith " howdeeeyall@... howdeeeyall

> Date: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:03 pm ((PDT))

>

> , I thought the local Home Depot had the right filter, but

> they didn't. I got instead the Absorber:

>

> http://www.webproducts.com/Detail.bok?no=46

>

> It's Merv 9 instead of MERV 7. I will use this filter temporarily

> until I can order the one you recommend.

>

> Do you think a MERV 9 filter will restrict air flow too much, and

> cause the motor to burn out? I'm asking because everyone working in

> stores and at the company that makes this A/C unit told me this would

> happen. And yet, this filter is sold for air conditioners. But

> perhaps not for a small, portable one?

>

> You have been a big help. Thank you.

>

> Judith

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi again ,

Thanks for the quick response! I ended up only using the green

electrostatic layer of this two-part filter, which was difficult

enough. My portable A/C has three separate air intakes, with other

odd-shaped parts right next to them, so taping was not easy, and

taping two layers would have been harder. At least this way, the air

flow will be less restricted.

Good point--another A/C will cost much less than being sicker.

Thanks again for the information.

Judith

[Guest guest]

I went from low MERV, to higer MERV, to now very high MERV for my home

furnace system when technician said it was too old and it would

restrict air flow. That was years ago and my old 35+ year old machine

is stilling running okay. You could run it at first only when you are

home if that makes you feel any better, if you are concerned about fire

or anything. That was my concern when someone says it may 'burn'

something out.

>

> Judith,

>

> Someone else on the board did the same thing and encountered no

> problem. The other Web filter, made specifically for window A/C's is

> MERV 7.

>

[Guest guest]

and Carl and others who have to deal with A/C:

This whole A/C discussion got me interested in dew points. The dew

point is the temperature at which water vapor will start to condense

out of the air; in other words, when the relative humidity is 100%. I

looked on weather.com and they actually have maps of the entire

country with the current dew point temperatures. It?s quite

interesting. The dew points varied from 26ºF in Reno, to 32ºF in

Boise, to 76ºF in Miami (yikes!).

This is relevant to the operation of air conditioning, which is

designed (in part by adjusting air flows over the coil) to keep the

cooling coil, which looks like a car radiator, around 40-45ºF. If the

coil gets too cold, water will freeze up on it and block the airflow.

You would expect that if the dew point of the outdoor air is below

40ºF, not much water would condense out of the air during air

conditioning, and most of the energy used for the operation of the A/C

is expended in just cooling the air. (There would be very little water

in the condensate tray, which every A/C unit must have).

In more humid areas like Miami, most of the energy for ?cooling? goes

to removing water from the air (since the same amount of energy must

be removed from air to condense a gram of water vapor into liquid as

it takes to boil a gram of water and create vapor). That?s why it

takes so long in a humid climate to cool a room when you first turn on

an air conditioner.

raised an interesting question about the condensate water, which

is often quite contaminated with microbial growth (including bacteria,

yeast and mold). Whether or not this liquid creates its own IAQ

problem can depend somewhat on the arrangement of the blower with

respect to the A/C coil, and whether or not there is a condensate

trap. I hope that I can make this clear, as it is a bit complicated,

but certainly worth understanding if you have an A/C and mold concerns.

In most furnace applications, the blower is near the floor, the

furnace/heating portion above that and the A/C coil above that. The

return air stream enters the blower first, and then is blown into the

furnace/heating portion and over the A/C coil. Because the air

pressure is less in the blower cabinet than the basement or mechanical

closet in which the unit sits, air leaks from the surroundings into

the blower cabinet. The air pressure is greater in the supply plenum,

where the A/C coil is usually located, so air leaks from there into

the basement or mechanical closet. Cold air goes off the coil directly

into the duct system. In this arrangement, I will refer to the blower

as being in front of the A/C coil.

In many heat pump and A/C only systems, however, the arrangement is

the opposite. The A/C coils is located first in the return air stream,

followed by the fan and blower cabinet, so rather than blown across

the A/C coil, air is sucked across the coil. This means that the air

pressure around the cooling coil is less than the air surrounding the

A/C unit. This is a significant difference, which I will discuss

below. In this arrangement, I will refer to the blower as being behind

the A/C coil.

Water drains by gravity from a cooling coil into the condensate tray,

and again by gravity into the drain line and out of the system, either

into a condensate pump or a floor drain. In a basement system in which

the blower is in front of the coil, the water is literally blown out

of the condensate line, because the pressure of the inside air around

the coil is greater than the air pressure in the basement. In systems

in which the blower is behind the coil, the pressure is less inside

around the coil than out, and room air is sucked into the condensate

line. Unless there is a water-filled, ?U?-shaped trap in the

condensate line, the air that is rushing in slows or prevents the

condensate water from flowing out of the tray. This can cause

overflowing of water from the condensate tray (and lead to mold

problems in the insulating liners and leaks from the unit).

In either arrangement, what happens to the air flowing through the

condensate line? In a system in which the blower is behind the coil,

air that is sucked in can get contaminated with mold that is growing

in the condensate line ? even if that airflow is small. In a system in

which the blower is in front of the coil, there may be no water in the

trap (or no trap at all), so air from the system is blowing out

through the moldy condensate line or moldy condensate pump, into the

mechanical closet or basement. This is particularly true if the A/C is

part of a heat pump or furnace. Thus the spread of contamination

happens in either case: within the system itself, or into the area

surrounding the air-conveyance unit.

Another problem with the arrangement that has the blower behind the

coil is that the air coming off the coil is at nearly 100% relative

humidity (RH). Many molds can grow at this high RH, so any dust in the

blower or on the blower cabinet walls or insulation can get moldy.

(This arrangement, with the blower behind the cooling coil, is the

same as the one in all window-A/C units, so the dust in the blowers

also gets very moldy.)

To prevent mold problems in an A/C system, you must use the highest

MERV-rated filter you can. In window units, this means about MERV 8,

and in central systems, about MERV-11. Remember, the purpose of this

filter is to remove biodegradable particles to prevent mold growth

within the system. Most biodegradable particles in house air consist

of skin scales, pet dander, lint, starch (from body powder), and plant

materials (like pollen and trichomes)all of which are larger than 5

microns, so a HEPA-rated filter would be overkill. And a filter, no

matter how efficient, will not ?clean? a system that is already

contaminated with microbial growth.

In a central system, every condensate line, whether it flows into a

floor drain, sink or condensate pump, should have a ?U?-shaped trap.

The best type of trap today is a transparent one so you can see if the

line is clogging. These traps also come with removable caps so the

trap and lines can be cleaned. The condensate tray is inaccessible in

most A/C?s but if accessible, I don?t think that it is a bad idea to

treat a condensate tray (or condensate pump) every once in a while

with bleach, but don?t let bleach sit too long on metal components as

this can accelerate corrosion. The bleach must be rinsed out.

I recall being in one, several-story, new condo building with an

attached parking garage, with spaces at every living level. For some

idiotic reason, all the condensate from the heat pumps drained onto

the sloped parking ramps connecting the parking levels. It was quite a

sight. There were trails of ?bioslime? draining down the concrete

ramps, all different colored depending on the crud growing in the A/C

units in the different condos. The architects figured the water would

evaporate, which it did eventually, but never gave a thought to the

bioaerosol dust that would be created when cars drove over the dried

crud. I haven?t been back to the building but I can imagine that they

have a bit of an IAQ problem in the parking garage.

C. May

May Indoor Air Investigations LLC

www.mayindoorair.com

" Jeff May's Healthy Home tips "

> Re: Air conditioner cleaning and adding WEB filter

> Posted by: " United States Vet " unitedstatesvet@... unitedstatesvet

> Date: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:41 pm ((PDT))

> This brings up a question I had never even given thought to.

> Especially here >in the southeast what about the drain pipes that

> drain the condensation from >the unit. Would it not make sense that

> in time there would be some sort of >growth in the pipes being

> constantly wet and dark? And if that is the case, >then would it not

> be recommended to put vinegar or other solutions either in >the pump

> or through the lines on a regular basis if for no other reason

> safety >measures??

> Just a thought.

[Guest guest]

Incidentally regarding this whole topic of mold in a/c, when ac

technicians came to help me with overflowing drip pan Friday, I asked

if they could take coils and drip pan out of unit for me so I could

clean them outside. They said they couldn't because they were tied

in to some many things. Then they said don't worry about the mold in

there. All air conditioners have some!!!!! Of course we know that,

but, right from the people who know best.

Of course, the attitude was it was unavoidable and I shouldn't worry

about it. I said 'well, I'm allergic to mold'...and that works EVERY

TIME! I can't believe how many people are sympathetic to allergies

(they are the least of my problems). Guy repeated to other

technician when he got back, in the way of 'can we help her some how,

she is allergic to mold'. He called office and they are going to

just sell me new coils only with new drip pan...previous pricing me

out whole new a/c, so I'm getting new coils and new drip pan, will be

plastic. They said even though my central system is not level

anymore, they can level out new coil pan and it should stay dry.

Before I mentioned allergies I was getting no where. They said they

could have someone come out and price a new system for me, then just

got the price over the phone.

Just thought it was interesting. a/c technicians saying mold was

inevitable in a/c systems. I said 'not in mine'- since 1990 that

I've had it I've not seen any mold. Bright red rust because it is

old, but nothing blackish or brownish in there. It wasn't until

house settled recently and put pan at an angle away from drain.

(*Earlier I posted I thought it was due to dirt from removing carpet

recently but technicians showed me drain pan was leaning away from

drain hole now, so house must have shifted....I removed large tree

from property I think has caused the new settling.) Just wanted to

repeat what technicians said and know...all air conditioners have

mold!!! I'm sure the is 'most', since mine did not, but it was be so

prevailant that 'all' seemed the appropriate word to them.

--- In , " jill1313 " <jenbooks13@...>

wrote:

>

> By the way, I've done the drilling extra holes in the window unit

> thing in the past. It does help but doesn't prevent standing water

> anyway, though it does help. The a/c units molded but not as badly.

> Otherwise they could get moldy in just a few weeks.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Every year I put a new humidifier pad in my humidifier before

winter and when I do that, I pour some vinegar through the drain line

come from that and it removes some water limestone sediment. I have

not been doing that with a/c simply because I didn't know where the

drain was in there and I didn't see any white lime sediment and used

the old philosophy 'when there isn't anything wrong, don't fix it',

but seems reasonable to me. With new coils and drain pan I may do

that to keep drain line cleaner. I think vinegar might be best since

it should have some cleaning effect as well as remove limestone

deposits which may creat some resistence in drain line or diminish

size of drain line circumference. In any case, I can't see it

hurting anything.

>

> This brings up a question I had never even given thought to.

Especially here in the southeast what about the drain pipes that

drain the condesation from the unit. Would it not make sence that in

time there would be some sort of growth in the pipes being constantly

wet and dark. And if that is the case then would it not be recomended

to put vinager or other solutions either in the pump or through the

lines on a regular basis if for no other reason saftey measures??

> Just a thought.

[Guest guest]

I found this, also says something about overflow protection:

http://www.eztrap.com/