Re: Old, new, carpets, hardwood-help!

[Guest guest]

It probably depends on what's ailing you. If you are mcs, probably

old would be better. If it's mold, probably new would be better.

For me it was mold, and I did best in a new place even though it had

a chemical smell. If you are both, you've got your work cut out for

you!!

Should you give up on where you are?

I did poorly in apt I moved to and then Jeff said to check the

radiators in the apt, and there I found LOTS of dirt. I cleaned

those out and I did okay. I STILL did better in the new place with

carpeting and chemical smell though.

A place to look for problems in first in whatever heats or cools your

place since heating and cooling equipment is constantly running the

air in your home through it, and it is the easiest place to get

dirty. Of course you know to look at a/c. If you do poorly in

winter, check where your heat goes through. If those places are

clean and in good shape, perhaps you are right and time to get out,

because it could be air from basement, attic, someone else's

apartment, or someplace you can't inspect.

>

> Hi,

> I am in the process of (desperately)looking for a new rental.

> First of all, has anybody out there successfully found a safe

rental?

> Second

[Guest guest]

This is hard to say since many people who are affected by mold often

don't realize the contributions of other toxicants in the area to

their illnesses. As someone who was chemically injured prior to

becoming mold sensitized, I can make the following recommendations

for selecting new rentals. These may or may not meet your needs,

depending upon how extreme the illness and the financial committment

you can make on a rental:

1. Sharing walls with other tenants is an automatic hazard. Walls

and floors are no barriers to fumes from heating units, fireplaces,

stoves, air fresheners, cleaning products, pesticides, personal care

products (e.g. hair spray) etc. If you can, rent a house or an

apartment in an owner occupied house with agreements to meet your

needs.

2. Any place can be water damaged but older residences are more

likely to have been affected. Anything with a dirt basement is out,

stone foundations are a nightmare and while concrete is good, mold

thrives when carpeting is laid directly onto concrete surfaces due

to condensation in changing temperatures or repeated cycles of

carpet becoming damp, drying, dampening again etc.

Is there a sump pump? History of water collection? If they tell

you it was just 'sealed' you will be dealing with the history of

water collection plus the toxicity of sealers.

3. Pesticide histories are a must - anyone with any immune or detox

system damage is ripe for serious problems if exposed. Find out

what was used and when - then research!

4. New carpet may be free of mold but it is a nightmare of

formaldehyde, toxic anti-stain treatments etc. If the house has

been aired regularly, you will find your comfort level regarding age

(1-2 years etc.). However, fibers are a magnet for bonding with

toxins so if pesticides were used, they are permanently embedded in

the carpet. Carpet cleaning chems with heavy fragrances are

similarly impossible to clean up.

5. Fragrances - Some will dissipate in time but others will not such

as the 'plug-in' types. Use your judgement and experience as well

as researching the issues involved. If a washing machine had heavily

fragranced detergents in it, I may or may not get it useful. If a

dryer had 'bounce' in it, I likely will avoid it, period.

6. Proximity to industry - is this property near a gas station or

autobody place? Factories? Laundromats? Major roads allowing truck

traffic? If your mold experience left you with asthma, you don't

want a big parking lot in your back yard with diesel particulates

around big time. Are you near a farm? Pesticides (via ground

spraying) migrate between .8 to 1.3 miles from point of application

according to one journal, under ideal conditions. It is really

farther and the ground water gets contaminated. Stay away from farms

and animal ranches (methane).

7. Renovations: Was the house painted or vinyl-sided recently? Any

paint or polyurethane applied indoors. Again, examine what was used

and when; was the house aired afterwards or did the sheet rock and

carpeting just absorb all outgassing chemicals? Experience and

research will be your guide.

8. Fuels: Gas fuels leak. A lot and often, evading detection most

frequently. CO meters don't alarm until the levels are usually above

70 ppm, already three times the level at which damage begins

occuring. So, if you must have gas appliances, get a CO meter that

tells you the levels. Gas contains harmful petrochems like methyl

mercaptin so it isn't just the CO to avoid. Oil fuels need to be

well sealed in their tanks and hot water dispersal baseboards. If

hot forced air heating is present, asthmatics are often bothered by

it. Leaking oil tanks? Stay away, highly toxic. Outdoor tanks

usually use kerosene instead of oil; cheap owners may use diesel

fuels with sulfur emissions. Be careful here.

9. Wood selections: Panelling is a nightmare for me - always seems

moldy behind it. Soft wood generally has terpenes, oil (as in pine)

which is a respiratory and skin irritant/sensitizer. Hardwood is

cool but beware of sealers. Laminates have formaldehyde offgassing

early in their lifetimes. Particle board and plywood (most of it)

is not really wood but called a 'forest product'. Might as well

move into a Katrina trailer.

10. What was it before it was a residence? If it was a school,

factory, farm, barn, commercial establishment, gas station or garage

before it was a house - it is still what it was, no matter what was

done to it. These chemicals and old forms of decay remain in

frames, soil etc.

Barb Rubin

>

> Hi,

> I am in the process of (desperately)looking for a new rental.

> First of all, has anybody out there successfully found a safe

rental?

> Second, I'd like to weigh in with ya'll:

>

> If it is new, out here, all I've found is that it is carpeted, at

least somewhere.

> Older places have the hardwood floors and tile.

> Every so often I'll luck out on both, (that happened only once)

and I have to move in the next 2 months-this place is making me so

ill!

>

> If I have to get out, is new (or fairly new, I know about

offgassing) and some carpet a better bet moldwise, than older (>10

yrs. built) and hardwood?

> Or vice-versa.

>

> I need to stay here at least a year and a half so I have a way to

support myself before moving to Arizona and near Dr. Gray!

> Help!

> Michal

>

[Guest guest]

>Barb: This is an excellent list! I have only one thing to add-my

experience here in New York is that new construction is often plagued

by mold and leaks and several brand new upscale housing communities on

Long Island have been evacuated due to mold infestation that was

caused by poor construction. There is no real guarantee when you buy a

new place-it should be perfect, no?-but I suppose knowing the

contractor etc could help.

[Guest guest]

Barb: This is an excellent list! I have only one thing to add-my

experience here in New York is that new construction is often plagued

by mold and leaks and several brand new upscale housing communities

on Long Island have been evacuated due to mold infestation that was

caused by poor construction. There is no real guarantee when you buy

a new place-it should be perfect, no?-but I suppose knowing the

contractor etc could help.

============================================

The mold in new places can be the result of dumb builders letting

the structures rot outside uncovered in all weathers and buying cut

rate supplies of moldy wood for framing. From there, it goes

downhill. A friend of mine ordered an expensive fence once but then

couldn't enter her own yard when they put it up for the mold. They

refused to take it back ($1200) so for around $120 she tested it.

Results came back high for aspergillos (spelling?) and upon

presenting it, they couldn't take it back fast enough for the full

refund. She then had her husband go and handpick the wood himself

from another supplier for her next try.

I mostly replied for the benefit of renters. New constrution in the

US is just too high in formaldehyde and other VOCs in general. I

moved into a three year old apartment (four-plex) and had an

increase in severity of asthma plus novel sinus symptoms. I tested

for formaledhyde ($125) and it came back above the Katrina trailer

levels and just over the WHO levels of recommended indoor air

quality tolerances for healthy adults.

I gave it to the landlord who waived any need for me to continue in

my lease - a friendly parting of the ways, no arguments or strife.

Prior to testing, he had claimed when I asked that he used 'low'

emission materials.

Ahem, I beg to differ.

If you are fortunate enough to be a buyer, there is no reason not to

test in advance of the sale for mold, formaldehyde, pesticides and

PAH/VOC levels to be sure. That investment of perhaps $600 can save

a lifetime of grief if you can afford to do this.

Renters of course, don't have this luxury as owners are better off

refusing to allow it - if they know what is there, they have to deal

with it.

Barb

[Guest guest]

I would imagine that a good source of wood comes from China, a big

exporter. Need I say any more.

Barth

www.presenting.net/sbs/sbs.html

SUBMIT YOUR DOCTOR: www.presenting.net/sbs/molddoctors.html

---

a>

a> Barb: This is an excellent list! I have only one thing to add-my

a> experience here in New York is that new construction is often plagued

a> by mold and leaks and several brand new upscale housing communities

a> on Long Island have been evacuated due to mold infestation that was

a> caused by poor construction. There is no real guarantee when you buy

a> a new place-it should be perfect, no?-but I suppose knowing the

a> contractor etc could help.

a> ============================================

a> The mold in new places can be the result of dumb builders letting

a> the structures rot outside uncovered in all weathers and buying cut

a> rate supplies of moldy wood for framing. From there, it goes

a> downhill. A friend of mine ordered an expensive fence once but then

a> couldn't enter her own yard when they put it up for the mold. They

a> refused to take it back ($1200) so for around $120 she tested it.

a> Results came back high for aspergillos (spelling?) and upon

a> presenting it, they couldn't take it back fast enough for the full

a> refund. She then had her husband go and handpick the wood himself

a> from another supplier for her next try.

a> I mostly replied for the benefit of renters. New constrution in the

a> US is just too high in formaldehyde and other VOCs in general. I

a> moved into a three year old apartment (four-plex) and had an

a> increase in severity of asthma plus novel sinus symptoms. I tested

a> for formaledhyde ($125) and it came back above the Katrina trailer

a> levels and just over the WHO levels of recommended indoor air

a> quality tolerances for healthy adults.

a> I gave it to the landlord who waived any need for me to continue in

a> my lease - a friendly parting of the ways, no arguments or strife.

a> Prior to testing, he had claimed when I asked that he used 'low'

a> emission materials.

a> Ahem, I beg to differ.

a> If you are fortunate enough to be a buyer, there is no reason not to

a> test in advance of the sale for mold, formaldehyde, pesticides and

a> PAH/VOC levels to be sure. That investment of perhaps $600 can save

a> a lifetime of grief if you can afford to do this.

a> Renters of course, don't have this luxury as owners are better off

a> refusing to allow it - if they know what is there, they have to deal

a> with it.

a> Barb

[Guest guest]

Thank you all for your input! I'm gonna take that awesome list with me as I

look. I may not find the perfect situation but it must be good enough for me to

begin healing. Mold is really the primary irritant for me, and prolongued

exposure seemed to increase my other sensitivities a bit. But I'm gonna look

for something built in the last three years, and see how it goes.

I also just learned I was not properly treated for Lymes. I wonder if I should

treat the Lymes first to get at the mold illness, or treat at the same time? I

shudder to take antibiotics but I heard Doxycycline is the gold standard because

it crossed the blood-brain barrier and gets Lyme in its cyst form. A friend of

mine who was so sensitive she could not tolerate anything is taking it and she

feels much better. Does anyone know any other treatment that is less harsh that

does this?

Also, should I be on CSM even though I am not in a clean house yet? My friend

says Dr. Shoemaker said it can prevent further damage even though you are not in

a safe home-at least that's what I thought she said..does that make sense?

She also mentioned he said Lyme patients with mold illness should be taking

actose and CSM. This seems so strange to me-2 drugs that are hard on the liver

and kidneys-chemicals to treat the chemically sensitive. Can anyone explain how

this works to me? I am one of those people who tested with a genetic glitch

that makes it hard for me to get rid of toxins. Do doctors who treat us with

these drugs take people like this into account? Any one had any experiences.

I'd really like to know.

Thank you guys for helping me through this!

Michal

[Guest guest]

How long have you had Lyme? What I've read says that antibiotics are

less effective, the longer you have had the Lyme. I have not used

antibiotics because I've probably had Lyme for decades; they would

not work well and would weaken my immune system.

Antibiotics do not, in general, affect the cyst form. They just

encourage Lyme to go into that form, where it is hard to bust. This

is one reason that some people are on a pulsed antibiotic schedule,

where they stop for a while, let the cysts come out to play, and then

kill off some spirochetes until they go back into cyst form. There

are a few drugs and some alternative approaches that can kill the

cyst form.

If you want more information, you might check out LymeStrategies at

. Several alternative treatments are discussed there;

I'm doing some of them. Also the group LymeTopics. Some people in

these groups have taken antibiotics, or are still taking them,

combined with other protocols.

Judith

>

> Thank you all for your input! I'm gonna take that awesome list

with me as I look. I may not find the perfect situation but it must

be good enough for me to begin healing. Mold is really the primary

irritant for me, and prolongued exposure seemed to increase my other

sensitivities a bit. But I'm gonna look for something built in the

last three years, and see how it goes.

> I also just learned I was not properly treated for Lymes. I wonder

if I should treat the Lymes first to get at the mold illness, or

treat at the same time? I shudder to take antibiotics but I heard

Doxycycline is the gold standard because it crossed the blood-brain

barrier and gets Lyme in its cyst form. A friend of mine who was so

sensitive she could not tolerate anything is taking it and she feels

much better. Does anyone know any other treatment that is less harsh

that does this?

<snip>

> Michal

>