Re: Philosophical Thought

[Guest guest]

Well said, Jill, and I agree. The prevalence is worldwide, which

makes our job of identifying and avoiding what we react to even

more difficult. We each have to do the best we can with what

we've got and that ain't much for many on this group. But we can

(and must) keep the hope and continue helping each other.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Do you ever feel discouraged by all the toxins/environmental

> problems/mold/poisons around you and long for the simpler days of your

> childhood? I don't remember all these problems growing up. Houses were

> houses. Food was food. Clothes were clothes. Cotton wasn't full of

> pesticides and formaldehyde, food wasn't ripened early in some dark

> warehouse and tasteless, milk wasn't from cows fed antibiotics and

> hormones and god knows what. It seems like everywhere I turn either

> things are too old and therefore moldy (if I get used books on Amazon,

> half the time they're fine, half the time they smell moldy; if I get

> new books, mostly they're fine, occasionally with my MCS they are so

> full of some kind of toxic something that I have to air them out for a

> month or two before I read them!) or too new and full of chemicals. It

> seems when I rent cars now, they often smell toxic. I don't remember

> that before. But old cars can get moldy a/c systems.

>

> I guess there's a reality to it. For instance Debra Dadd said she only

> looked for a house built before the 50's when they used real wood not

> plywood. Better materials etc.

>

> It just seems like a very narrow " eye of the needle " these days

> between mold and old on one side and toxic chemicals of the " new " on

> the other. For instance, just thinking of buying a tent so my bf and I

> can do some car camping in the fall, well, I'm worried about what a

> new tent would be coated with, but I'm worried that buying an old tent

> on craigslist, somebody could have stored it in a moldy basement.

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

[Guest guest]

me too, and I think old, free of mold is the way to go.

I made the trip to MD and back. kindof hard on the body but

servived. was womdering if someone could post the link to the onfo.

on the dust testing, MRIR or what ever it is, cant think of it right

now. thanks in advance.

In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

>

> Well said, Jill, and I agree. The prevalence is worldwide, which

> makes our job of identifying and avoiding what we react to even

> more difficult. We each have to do the best we can with what

> we've got and that ain't much for many on this group. But we can

> (and must) keep the hope and continue helping each other.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> > Do you ever feel discouraged by all the toxins/environmental

> > problems/mold/poisons around you and long for the simpler days of

your

> > childhood? I don't remember all these problems growing up. Houses

were

> > houses. Food was food. Clothes were clothes. Cotton wasn't full of

> > pesticides and formaldehyde, food wasn't ripened early in some

dark

> > warehouse and tasteless, milk wasn't from cows fed antibiotics and

> > hormones and god knows what. It seems like everywhere I turn

either

> > things are too old and therefore moldy (if I get used books on

Amazon,

> > half the time they're fine, half the time they smell moldy; if I

get

> > new books, mostly they're fine, occasionally with my MCS they are

so

> > full of some kind of toxic something that I have to air them out

for a

> > month or two before I read them!) or too new and full of

chemicals. It

> > seems when I rent cars now, they often smell toxic. I don't

remember

> > that before. But old cars can get moldy a/c systems.

> >

> > I guess there's a reality to it. For instance Debra Dadd said she

only

> > looked for a house built before the 50's when they used real wood

not

> > plywood. Better materials etc.

> >

> > It just seems like a very narrow " eye of the needle " these days

> > between mold and old on one side and toxic chemicals of the " new "

on

> > the other. For instance, just thinking of buying a tent so my bf

and I

> > can do some car camping in the fall, well, I'm worried about what

a

> > new tent would be coated with, but I'm worried that buying an old

tent

> > on craigslist, somebody could have stored it in a moldy basement.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > FAIR USE NOTICE:

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Jill,

Yes, of course..

There is a lot of wisdom in living that simpler life, but unfortunately,

although individuals may be successful in simplifying their lives,

we as a society will have to be very smart about how we change.

I think that the old ways were often much more sustainable, in the long term,

than the incredibly wasteful way we live now. Look at all that metal we

use and PLASTIC that we create and then throw away.. If we don't deal with it,

it pollutes our environment.

I read recently that if any modern country were to get into a war like

World War II,

the level of toxic materials in our homes and buildings now is so

great that if any city

burned on a massive scale, as happened in World War II,

the cleanup job would be almost impossible, it would take decades..

That is ignoring the other nuclear, chemical or biological effects of

modern warfare..

Thats something for the builders as well as the war planners to think about!

Ultimately, I think we will need to rethink our use of chemicals in many areas.

For example, there is now a global shortage of fertilizer..

Chemical farming methods deplete the soil of micronutrients, and at some point,

food begins to lose its nutritive value as well. The soil dies and the

worms, fungi and bacteria

that released nutrients for plant growth are replaced by chemical nutrients..

but they must be bought.. the natural factors are free..

Yield using chemical fertilizer is high, but not forever..

What if we could develop sustainable agriculture that gave 3/4 of the

yield of chemical agriculture,

but built up the soil instead of depleted it?

Something like the high-density farming techniques the Indians used..

(we have forgotten many of them..but some were incredibly sophisticated)

Look at how much energy we waste.. Americans now use I think four

times as much energy

per capita as much as our nearest rivals, the Japanese..

So, its clear that we all - we Americans, especially need to change or

the world might well find

itself at odds with us because we take so much more than we should..

Doing it gently, justly, and consciously, will be a real challenge..

But I believe that it CAN and WILL be done. All of our survival depends on it..

which reminds me of something..

I don't know if many people on the list are sci-fi fans, but I am, and

during the last TV season I was an avid watcher of the series

" Battlestar Galactica " on the Sci-Fi channel.. Its about the crews of

a fleet of space vessels who following a devastating war between the

'humans' and the human-like " Cylons " (bioengineered humans who have

the ability to reincarnate, carrying the knowledge from their past

lives into their new bodies)

You can watch it online.. its free..

At the end of the season, the humans and the Cylons have both suffered

tremendously from the war with the narcissistic Cylons, which killed

most of the human race, and a civil war among the Cylons which set

many of them against one another, some then allied with the humans,

and so, they are, together, carrying out a systematic sector by sector

search for the legendary " Earth " , orignal home of the human race,

which has been lost.. Habitable, Earth-like planets are exceedingly

rare, it seems..

At the end, they suddenly find Earth.. and it is Earth.. But something

is terribly wrong.. They land on Earth, and find, not a green,

welcoming world.. but instead, a murky, hot, MOLDY world.. with ruins

of vast cities, BUT little life beyond what appears to be fungi..

mold.. everywhere.. growing on everything..

.....

Food for thought...

Could that happen to us?

The end of the season

[Guest guest]

Hi Jill,

Funny you should talk about buying a tent.

I lived in a contaminated house in Sydney Australia for four months, for three

of those

months I slept in a tent in the back yard because my symptoms were so bad. I had

no

energy to find another house to live in and in my distressed state thought the

tent option

to be the best... my mind was fried, my friends and family thought I'd gone

crazy. Problem

was I still had all my clothes in the house collecting the mold and I had to go

inside to

cook wash etc... my symptoms continued. I had no idea what was going on.

My point is that by sleeping in the tent I was taken straight back to the simple

days of

childhood, where all you had was a sense of adventure and mother nature to be

your

playground/playmate. The sound of the birdlife and insects and plants are all

that kept me

going during this difficult time. After a year I am slowly regaining my life and

would buy a

tent just for the fun of it and get out into nature as much as possible. Not

such a crazy

idea.

All the best and thanks for posting your philosophical thought. Wishing you

well.

M.

[Guest guest]

The DNA dust test is called ERMI for Environmental Relative Moldiness Index

I have found 3 labs that offer the test:

mycometrics.com Dr Lin collaborates with Dr Shoemaker cost $290

cleanairlabs.com cost $195

emsl.com cost $175 plus kit for 5 day turn around time and shipping, ask for

this price

otherwise they will give you a kit for $299

Whoever you chose, call them for the kit.

This test really let us see how bad our house was. I now have a myriad of

friends who have

done the test and it helps to clarify things about your home, including if you

just bought a

mold castle (one friend has).

[Guest guest]

Thank you for that nice thought and image.

Sydney can have mold problems--soooooo humid!

Caught between old and mold, and new and " phew " (ie chemical smells) lol.

I guess I will look for a used tent. I feel it would be really healing

to be in a nature preserve--there's a state park out in Long Island

that is untouched, ancient wilderness.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Jill,

My tent had an inner mesh layer and outer waterproof layer, so the fresh air

could

circulate, but I was fully protected from the rain and wind. I think this is

standard in most

new and new-ish tents... good to have fresh air. I also lay down a good

comfortable (non-

moldy) mattress, and could access wifi on my laptop... very happy in my tent. I

just

couldn't have many friends over. lol.

All the very best, have fun in Long Island.

M.

>

> Thank you for that nice thought and image.

> Sydney can have mold problems--soooooo humid!

>

> Caught between old and mold, and new and " phew " (ie chemical smells) lol.

>

> I guess I will look for a used tent. I feel it would be really healing

> to be in a nature preserve--there's a state park out in Long Island

> that is untouched, ancient wilderness.

>

[Guest guest]

THANKS JACKIE

>

> The DNA dust test is called ERMI for Environmental Relative

Moldiness Index

>

> I have found 3 labs that offer the test:

> mycometrics.com Dr Lin collaborates with Dr Shoemaker cost $290

> cleanairlabs.com cost $195

> emsl.com cost $175 plus kit for 5 day turn around time and

shipping, ask for this price

> otherwise they will give you a kit for $299

>

> Whoever you chose, call them for the kit.

>

> This test really let us see how bad our house was. I now have a

myriad of friends who have

> done the test and it helps to clarify things about your home,

including if you just bought a

> mold castle (one friend has).

>

[Guest guest]

Are tents bug tight? Every time I go out doors for even a short time I

get bug bites.

>

> Hi Jill,

>

> Funny you should talk about buying a tent.

[Guest guest]

Only if you leave the door/zipper open.

> >

> > Hi Jill,

> >

> > Funny you should talk about buying a tent.

>

[Guest guest]

I'm back to this subject. The thing that makes life so very hard in

regards to mold issues is because it is covered up. It means you are

swimming against the stream. Everyone is going against you, either

deliberately or unintentionally, but never the less, you are swimming

upstream all the way. From people who manufacture products without

regard to their ability to grow mold, to installers who don't pay

attention to installation enough because (-like in regard to a/c, if

they aren't leveled right, oh well, they will grow a little mold and

that's okay - " they're all moldy " ), to people who are supposed to

maintain with same attitude, with our doctors. The list is never

ending. You become a victim of everyones, not intentionally

victimizing you but out of ignorance. You have to be a do-it-

yourselfer, even when you pay someone else to do work, because you

have to oversee their work if it could impact indoor air which almost

anything can. You can't believe what your doctor says because you

know there is big gap in their education on role of fungus and they

are dismissive of it, so all of a sudden everything is up to YOU. A

life when you are not well is hard enough but when on top of that

there is no help but from yourself, it is very difficult and

emotionally very isolating. The only positive thought I have is that

it could be worse...you could be in this same spot and be clueless

about what is going on.

However, maybe ignorance would be bliss. You'd be sick but able to

rely on others, believe in your doctor...fit right in! People would

understand you. Remember when you believed in your doctor??? Wasn't

that great- the short time that that probably was. It's easy to

believe in your doctor, until you get sick.

--- In , " jill1313 " <jenbooks13@...>

wrote:

>

> Do you ever feel discouraged by all the toxins/environmental

> problems/mold/poisons around you and long for the simpler days of

your

> childhood?

[Guest guest]

I here you both loud and clear, if I wasn't so damn sick I would have

already packed up my elcamino with a mattress ub rgw back and hyst

tool of driveing, where, who knows. even if I could afford it I cant

say I want to have another home unless I also have my health back. I

fell like becoming a beach bumb but that might cure me or finish me

off,one or the other. my sinuses would the a real cold place but my

ackeing body wouldn't so heck whats a person to do. I use to do the

knitting thing but I cant even do that anymore because the tiny

little fibers go up my nose and irritate the heck out of me. I cant

see to write or draw anymore. my computer even a old piece of crap

and is overload and dragging booty just like me.

the best and only offer I've had in a long time is dependant on if I

get my eyes fixed and get my brain functioning a little better I

might get hired to do research. fun fun joy oh joy

and heck, I'm about to go stir crazy but I just dont have the

freaking energy to even do that. cant even read a good book and of I

could it sure wouldn't be about mold!! I never even could of in my

woldest dreams pictured myself being here where I am now. I still

keep thinking I will wake up some day. it's like a really sick joke

someone played on me but it wont go away and I talk and talk but no

one understands, I can almost see their ears closeing shut sometimes.

it really hurts my fellings, it like I've been going through this for

so long that everyones forgot who I used to be and they have no clue

just how hard this is to go through.

[Guest guest]

Well put Barb! As I literally just Sat down again with computer I

could barely lift off the table, because it is too heavy put tears

in my eyes (again) because this illness has taken soooooo much oiut

of me. As for the swimming up hilll I am in process of gathering

allllll the info (most of what I have learned from you

guys...Thanks) to fight the uphill, upstream never ending battle we

all have in common. I have leterally gone thru 4000 + emails from

this site printing important articles and studys that are warranted

by people who are not ignorant of the effect this illness has on our

lives, to give to my WC Attorney for my personal battle for the

company liability in this LOL. It is draing both emotionally and

physically to go thru all the med file from doctors who have been

and still are ignorant. It is trying to have to educaate family,

friends, doctors, attorneys and everyone else in the world aboutwhy

I am sick. I did not ask for this...it iss not " in my head " I wish I

could be the person I was before all thishappened more than

anything. And your right somewhat it could be worse! I keep

thinking and saying it is not " lifethreating " , aids, MS etc, and I

shold be thankfull, but what it is, is LIFE ALTERING!Just thoght I

would share, I dont usually put me 2 cents in but have on occasio!

Once again Thanks to all of you, you all ahvebeen very valuable and

dear to me with all your life stories, info and all. Light and

Laughter. Now back to the grind of trying to educaate my attorney in

all of this, so he has info to WOOP BUT IN COURT!!!

[Guest guest]

For me, I realize that it probably took some time for me to really

feel ill (cause when I look back I can see that there were symptoms,

but I didn't know that they were symptoms... and neither did my

doctor)... It's like I'm living a horrible nightmare and I can't wake

up... I've lost my health, I can't find a doctor who will listen and

do the testing that will show what's wrong... I can't work and my

private short term disability has run out... My workmen's comp lawyer

is of no help, he was supposed to have a few doctors for me to see

but now he can't seem to find their info... all my money is gone...

I've been planning to sell off my belongings (to make ends meet) at

area flea markets but I don't have the energy to get there...

Family and friends are concerned and do care but really have no clue

to how to help me out of this quicksand of an illness. It seems like

the more I struggle the further I sink.. I'm grateful that their

there on the shore but they don't have anything to throw to me to

pull me out... But I have to say I'm so glad that I've found others

that are in the same fight that I am... I don't know where I would be

if I hadn't found this group...

--- In , " jill1313 " <jenbooks13@...>

wrote:

>

> Do you ever feel discouraged by all the toxins/environmental

> problems/mold/poisons around you and long for the simpler days of

your

> childhood? I don't remember all these problems growing up. Houses

were

> houses. Food was food.

[Guest guest]

Same here-when I look back I have been sick from various exposures

since 1977-but the last 10 years have been a slow decent into hell,

with all my efforts to save myself to no avail-I did everything

possible to prevent exposure-or at the time I thought I did-but more

and more sensitization just kept me going down hill-I have no

suggestions-just try and call in your markers-get your friends to

help-live outside and take cholestrymine-it is the only thing that

helps me.

-- In , " bonniel215 " <bonniel215@...>

wrote:

>

> For me, I realize that it probably took some time for me to really

> feel ill (cause when I look back I can see that there were symptoms,

> but I didn't know that they were symptoms... and neither did my

> doctor)... It's like I'm living a horrible nightmare and I can't

wake

> up... I've lost my health, I can't find a doctor who will listen and

> do the testing that will show what's wrong... I can't work and my

> private short term disability has run out... My workmen's comp

lawyer

> is of no help, he was supposed to have a few doctors for me to see

> but now he can't seem to find their info... all my money is gone...

> I've been planning to sell off my belongings (to make ends meet) at

> area flea markets but I don't have the energy to get there...

> Family and friends are concerned and do care but really have no clue

> to how to help me out of this quicksand of an illness. It seems like

> the more I struggle the further I sink.. I'm grateful that their

> there on the shore but they don't have anything to throw to me to

> pull me out... But I have to say I'm so glad that I've found others

> that are in the same fight that I am... I don't know where I would

be

> if I hadn't found this group...

>

>

>

> >

> > Do you ever feel discouraged by all the toxins/environmental

> > problems/mold/poisons around you and long for the simpler days of

> your

> > childhood? I don't remember all these problems growing up. Houses

> were

> > houses. Food was food.

>