Re: Sheet rock for basement bathroom?

August 6, 2008

They make special sheet rock for bathrooms that is moisture resistant. Normal

sheetrock is white but the bathroom sheetrock is green. Go to home depot and ask

about it. Not sure if it puts out chemical smells or not. And make sure that any

old leaking pipes are totally fixed before you put the walls back on. This would

be a good time to inspect all other areas of your home for water leaks as well.

August 6, 2008

http://buildingscience.com has some good resources on how to prevent

mold in basements..

On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 7:09 PM, E E <photoguys2003@...> wrote:

> They make special sheet rock for bathrooms that is moisture resistant.

> Normal sheetrock is white but the bathroom sheetrock is green. Go to home

> depot and ask about it. Not sure if it puts out chemical smells or not. And

> make sure that any old leaking pipes are totally fixed before you put the

> walls back on. This would be a good time to inspect all other areas of your

> home for water leaks as well.

>

August 6, 2008

sheet rock has formaldehyde. Today I was at Home Depot and was looking at

" wonderboard'. It is like a cement sheet. The guy told me that as far as he knew

it is only cement. But I was checking on the internet and it said that it is

made of cement and fiberglass. Does anyone know if fiberglass is harmful to us?

I know that fiberglass insulation is because you can inhale it but i do not know

if it is mixed with cement if it would be. Does anyone know? Thanks for taking

the time to answer me. cathy

August 7, 2008

Go to Lowes and check out DensArmor Plus drywall. It is paperless, mold and

moisture resistant. It is also only drywall Greenguard certified for low

emitting VOCs. Visit www.densarmorplus.com for more info

@...: cahydesmond@...: Wed, 6 Aug

2008 13:26:45 -0700Subject: [] Sheet rock for basement bathroom?

I would like to know if any of you know what the healthiest type of material to

use for bathroom walls? We are remodeling a basement bathroom because a few

years ago we had mold there when we bought it. Then we left it alone for another

few years and now we are trying to get it done. I have mold and MCS so it is a

challenge to find things that will work and not bother me. We decided to use a

claw tub so that there air ciruculation under it. But we have to figure out what

to use for the walls that would work for mold/ moisture control and would not

give off chemical fumes. So far we have thought of sheet rock and then some type

of laminate on top. But I am not sure about the sheet rock. Does anyone know if

they get moldy easy? If the ones that are " mold resistant " would give off

chemicals as well? Is there any where where I could go to get some informations

on this? What do people do when they want natural products and yet want to make

sure that theywill be able to keep the mold controled? or moisture so that there

is no mold control? We have a fan, small window and we intend to wipe after

every shower. Our house is over 50 years old and the previous owners did not

keep it ventilated enough so that there was mold. We did a lot of work and

removed carpets, linoleums, etc. We have a bare cement floor now that we are

also trying to figure out what would be the best flooring to put in there that

would handle the moisture that comes from a basement floor. Any ideas there too?

We have checked linoleum( not vinyl), tiles and cork so far. We live in Eastern

Wa. and it is semi dessert so we do not have a lot of humidity but enough to

have mold if a house is not properly managed. Any websites, books, people that

you could guide me to? Thanks for all the info. you all send. It is really a

great blessing and makes life so much easier to know others out there are there

fighting the same battle and willing to hear you and help you. cathy[Non-text

portions of this message have been removed]

_________________________________________________________________

Reveal your inner athlete and share it with friends on Windows Live.

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whichathlete_us

August 7, 2008

--- In , cathy desmond <cahydesmond@...>

wrote:

>Fiberglass is the key material in insulation-it is very very harmful!

Fiberglass tends to float around as little particles-it got in my eyes

and my lungs even when I was upstairs and the insulation was in the

basement. In the end I had to remove the insulation completely.

> sheet rock has formaldehyde. Today I was at Home Depot and was

looking at " wonderboard'. It is like a cement sheet. The guy told me

that as far as he knew it is only cement. But I was checking on the

internet and it said that it is made of cement and fiberglass. Does

anyone know if fiberglass is harmful to us? I know that fiberglass

insulation is because you can inhale it but i do not know if it is

mixed with cement if it would be. Does anyone know? Thanks for taking

the time to answer me. cathy

>

August 8, 2008

Basements, or cold exterior walls in winter can cause all sorts of problems.

make sure you follow building codes and check buildingscence.com for

recommendations for your climate zone.

There are special sealants, backerboard, etc. for bathrooms,

specifically. gypsum wallboard as we all know can be extemely

problematic in high humidity - thats when it grows mold and

especially, when it produces mycotoxins.

Don't try to reinvent the wheel..

August 9, 2008

Don't use the fiberglass wallboard. It soaks up the heat and causes

condensation. Yet, it

does not soak up the water, other things do.

What about plaster? It is my understanding that mold does not grow on plaster.

Does anyone

know about that?

>

> Basements, or cold exterior walls in winter can cause all sorts of problems.

> make sure you follow building codes and check buildingscence.com for

> recommendations for your climate zone.

>

> There are special sealants, backerboard, etc. for bathrooms,

> specifically. gypsum wallboard as we all know can be extemely

> problematic in high humidity - thats when it grows mold and

> especially, when it produces mycotoxins.

>

> Don't try to reinvent the wheel..

>

August 9, 2008

semco,

There appears to be some confusion in terminology and the

relationships between temperature, humidity, water and food

sources. Increasing the temperature of the wallboard will move

the surface temperature away from the dew point, thus

preventing condensation, not causing it. The reason for using

fiberglass instead of cardboard facing on wallboard is mold

doesn't eat fiberglass even if it is wet, thus it won't grow mold or

bacteria at any temperature. Cardboard facing is easily digestible

by mold and bacteria, thus promoting growth at most indoor

temperatures even if only damp.

The inside of wall cavities may become more humid if the RH in

the air from the increased evaporation of hot water in a bath or a

shower " pushes " the moisture into wall cavities (vapor pressure).

The cardboard will easily absorb the moisture, leaving the other

materials dry, giving the appearance that it is less susceptible to

mositure. But it will grow mold. The fiberglass won't absorb the

moisture increasing the chance of liquid water inside the wall but

mold won't grow on the fiberglass.

Sorry for the confusing comparisons, but this is an excellent

example of how moisture, temperature, materials and

mold/bacterial growth can be very complicated. Understanding it

helps to prevent and diagnose problems.

Because the original e-mail chose a claw tub there is less chance

of liquid water directly hitting the wall surface and penetrating

small leaks. If a vent fan is used and exhausted to the outside

(not into the attic) the is very little chance of mold growth even

with the standard wallboard with cardboard facing.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Don't use the fiberglass wallboard. It soaks up the heat and causes

condensation. Yet, it

> does not soak up the water, other things do.

>

> What about plaster? It is my understanding that mold does not grow on

plaster. Does anyone

> know about that?

>

> >

> > Basements, or cold exterior walls in winter can cause all sorts of problems.

> > make sure you follow building codes and check buildingscence.com for

> > recommendations for your climate zone.

> >

> > There are special sealants, backerboard, etc. for bathrooms,

> > specifically. gypsum wallboard as we all know can be extemely

> > problematic in high humidity - thats when it grows mold and

> > especially, when it produces mycotoxins.

> >

> > Don't try to reinvent the wheel..

> >

>

August 9, 2008

as far as plaster, I dont know if mold grows in it but it grows on it

and moistire causes cracks that lets it grow through, not sure if it

would come through without the cracks. I had patched some cracks

because I thought the leaks from the roof were fixed but they weren't

and there were mold spots latter seen there when it got wet again.

however I used sheet rock mud and not plaster to patch the cracks so

that may be why. a water leak well eventually cause plaster to fall

out in that spot. last time I looked a spot of plaster where there

was a dripping leak from the roof, it was pretty spongey, I think the

only thing keeping the plaster from falling out in that spot was the

several layers of old latex paint but it appeared thar the mold was

under and possably eating on the paint (bubbley). there were mushroom

things growing out of the crack there. mold seen on top of the paint

too. while the surface of plaster is very slick and non-porus it

seems a crack might allow the mold to get into the plaster where it's

more porus but I'm not sure. I do think plaster, as far as water

splashing on it is pretty resistent to mold growth if it's not a

constant thing. but problems with off and on humidity,cold and heat

can cause cracking. however as I later learned, if a 100 year old

ho,e with areginal plaster starts cracking after you have a new roof

done, you better be finding out whats wrong up there and dont rely or

what the roofer man tells you cause chances are he will lie.

--- In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...>

wrote:

>

> semco,

>

> There appears to be some confusion in terminology and the

> relationships between temperature, humidity, water and food

> sources. Increasing the temperature of the wallboard will move

> the surface temperature away from the dew point, thus

> preventing condensation, not causing it. The reason for using

> fiberglass instead of cardboard facing on wallboard is mold

> doesn't eat fiberglass even if it is wet, thus it won't grow mold

or

> bacteria at any temperature. Cardboard facing is easily digestible

> by mold and bacteria, thus promoting growth at most indoor

> temperatures even if only damp.

>

> The inside of wall cavities may become more humid if the RH in

> the air from the increased evaporation of hot water in a bath or a

> shower " pushes " the moisture into wall cavities (vapor pressure).

> The cardboard will easily absorb the moisture, leaving the other

> materials dry, giving the appearance that it is less susceptible to

> mositure. But it will grow mold. The fiberglass won't absorb the

> moisture increasing the chance of liquid water inside the wall but

> mold won't grow on the fiberglass.

>

> Sorry for the confusing comparisons, but this is an excellent

> example of how moisture, temperature, materials and

> mold/bacterial growth can be very complicated. Understanding it

> helps to prevent and diagnose problems.

>

> Because the original e-mail chose a claw tub there is less chance

> of liquid water directly hitting the wall surface and penetrating

> small leaks. If a vent fan is used and exhausted to the outside

> (not into the attic) the is very little chance of mold growth even

> with the standard wallboard with cardboard facing.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> > Don't use the fiberglass wallboard. It soaks up the heat and

causes condensation. Yet, it

> > does not soak up the water, other things do.

> >

> > What about plaster? It is my understanding that mold does not

grow on plaster. Does anyone

> > know about that?

> >

> > --- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Basements, or cold exterior walls in winter can cause all sorts

of problems.

> > > make sure you follow building codes and check

buildingscence.com for

> > > recommendations for your climate zone.

> > >

> > > There are special sealants, backerboard, etc. for bathrooms,

> > > specifically. gypsum wallboard as we all know can be extemely

> > > problematic in high humidity - thats when it grows mold and

> > > especially, when it produces mycotoxins.

> > >

> > > Don't try to reinvent the wheel..

> > >

> >

>

August 9, 2008

What really helps is if you can create a situation where the fan always goes

on when the room is being used.

It would be great if they made a timer so that the light turned the fan on

but also contained a delay so that whenever someone is in the room the fan

was on but then the fan would continue to run at least 15-20 minutes after

anyone left.

That would take care of shower-sourced moisture. That isn't the only source

of moisture in bathrooms, but its the one you can control the most.

You are very lucky to own your own home because you can control the entire

situation.

August 10, 2008

I agree with this completely! I have had to leave my fan running all day

because I leave for

work when possible not long after I get out of the shower.

It would be very nice if the fan were in a location closer to where the steam

escapes from

the shower, not just in the middle of the room.

>

> I would like to know if any of you know what the healthiest type of material

to use for

bathroom walls? We are remodeling a basement bathroom because a few years ago we

had mold there when we bought it. Then we left it alone for another few years

and now we

are trying to get it done.

August 10, 2008

What we did was put the fiberglass as the interior wall. We found that in the

morning, the

sun from the east was so strong that the fiberglass became very hot. That same

wall had

cabinets mounted on it and a large mirror. The cabinets are what suffered from

the

condensation. Being mounted on a wall that absorbed the heat, and being in an

air

conditioned house. The cabinets are what became damp and mold grew inside the

cabinets where there was no ventilation. (most cabinets don't have ventilation

unless hey

have facing that is open.) Eveything in the cabinets remained damp and more

mold.

August 10, 2008

Carl,

Thanks for the explanation. I am the one that send the original message of

installing the claw tub in a basement bathroom. My Lyme has created tons of

allergies in me and it is becoming harder and harder for me to handle life.

Therefore, I have allergies to mold and to chemicals. So I do not know if I am

looking for the impossible. I am trying to get away from using materials that

off gas chemicals and that will draw mold to grow on it.Can you explain or tell

this simple Lyme afflicted brain of mine that is the best material to use that

would cover both of these concerns or come close to it?

So far I have checked sheet rock and that they tell me has formaldehyde and the

green kind really does not work as well as they say for mold. Then we were

looking at wonderboard at home Depot and I was not sure about this either. Then

I was looking at cement sheets that the guy at Home Depot said he believed it

only had cement but when I looked it up on the internet it seemed to say it had

fiberglass in it as a filler.

Are there any good books out there that you know of that could guide me in this

issue? We remodeled this older home when we moved in and I ended up living in a

tent camper for 3 years till I could handle it. I am now a lot sicker and I

cannot handle it. We are doing the basement because some friends of ours are

moving in to stay with us to help me to get better.They will be staying in our

basement apartment and that is why we are even attempting this. Otherwise we

would not even bother till I got better. You seem to be a wealth of information.

I thank-you that you take the time to educate all of us. cathy

August 10, 2008

you can buy a timer at a hardware store to allow you to turn it on for

any time between 0 and 59 minutes.. then every time you take a shower,

you turn it on to 'half an hour' and it will turn off 30 min later...

August 10, 2008

Re: bathroom fan with time delay switch:

I bet you can buy one of those time delay electric switches that you

see in many places like garages. An medical office buidling I go to

has one for lights in the public bathrooms. Maybe you can switch out

regular electric switch to time delay like you do dimmer switches.

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

then the fan would continue to run at least 15-20 minutes after

> anyone left.

>

August 10, 2008

They have light switches that also close when someone enters a room.. they

use passive infrared i.e. " motion " sensors. They might have a time delay..

(so they wont turn off each time you leave)

If the time delay is long anough, they would be good for fans, but even if

not, they might also be useful for WC's that don't include a shower.. (even

just using the sink for a long time produces a lot of humidity which you can

feel in the air..)

The same thing goes for cooking.. if you are boiling water or most cooking,

you generate a lot of humidity..

If its cold (or your are running an AC) and you could get condensation, you

need to exhaust it. Small range hoods just require an open window, but big

range hoods exhaust so much air even a wide open window wont supply enough

make up air.

So, in an ideal world, if you have a big range hood, you also could 'inject'

make up air elsewhere to prevent backdrafting combustion appliances. My wife

and I notice that when we turn on our range hood on 'high' if there isn't an

open window at the same time, it makes a noticeable change in the air

pressure.. Our ears feel as if they might pop.. We are wondering what we

should do to address this depressurization.

Obviously, this could get complicated, but it pays off in better IAQ.

On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 12:35 PM, barb1283 <barb1283@...> wrote:

> Re: bathroom fan with time delay switch:

> I bet you can buy one of those time delay electric switches that you

> see in many places like garages. An medical office buidling I go to

> has one for lights in the public bathrooms. Maybe you can switch out

> regular electric switch to time delay like you do dimmer switches.

>

> >

> then the fan would continue to run at least 15-20 minutes after

> > anyone left.

> >

>

August 10, 2008

semco,

Another great example! Here is an easy way to replicate what is

happening with your cabinets hanging on an exterior wall hot from

the sun cooled by the A/C .

Put a water bottle half full of water into the sunlight shining

through your window (or outdoors). The sun heats the water in

the bottle (the wall) increasing evaporation (RH) in the upper half

(the cabinets). When the RH increases to the dew point it

condenses inside the bottle (the cabinets). The water heats but

the air inside and outside doesn't so the surface temp of the

bottle (cabinets) stays the same - below the dewpoint.

The same thing happens in hotels with vinyl wallpaper. Hot humid

air outside moves through the walls to the inside. But it is stopped

by the vinyl. The A/C cools the vinyl below the dew point and the

the humidity (water vapor) condenses to water (liquid) . And

grows mold, lots of mold!

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> What we did was put the fiberglass as the interior wall. We found that in the

morning, the

> sun from the east was so strong that the fiberglass became very hot. That

same wall had

> cabinets mounted on it and a large mirror. The cabinets are what suffered

from the

> condensation. Being mounted on a wall that absorbed the heat, and being in an

air

> conditioned house. The cabinets are what became damp and mold grew inside the

> cabinets where there was no ventilation. (most cabinets don't have ventilation

unless hey

> have facing that is open.) Eveything in the cabinets remained damp and more

mold.

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

August 11, 2008

Carl,

What would have been the solution to the problem?

>

> semco,

>

> Another great example! Here is an easy way to replicate what is

> happening with your cabinets hanging on an exterior wall hot from

> the sun cooled by the A/C .

>

> Put a water bottle half full of water into the sunlight shining

> through your window (or outdoors). The sun heats the water in

> the bottle (the wall) increasing evaporation (RH) in the upper half

> (the cabinets). When the RH increases to the dew point it

> condenses inside the bottle (the cabinets). The water heats but

> the air inside and outside doesn't so the surface temp of the

> bottle (cabinets) stays the same - below the dewpoint.

>

> The same thing happens in hotels with vinyl wallpaper. Hot humid

> air outside moves through the walls to the inside. But it is stopped

> by the vinyl. The A/C cools the vinyl below the dew point and the

> the humidity (water vapor) condenses to water (liquid) . And

> grows mold, lots of mold!

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> > What we did was put the fiberglass as the interior wall. We found that in

the

morning, the

> > sun from the east was so strong that the fiberglass became very hot. That

same wall

had

> > cabinets mounted on it and a large mirror. The cabinets are what suffered

from the

> > condensation. Being mounted on a wall that absorbed the heat, and being in

an air

> > conditioned house. The cabinets are what became damp and mold grew inside

the

> > cabinets where there was no ventilation. (most cabinets don't have

ventilation unless

hey

> > have facing that is open.) Eveything in the cabinets remained damp and

more mold.

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > FAIR USE NOTICE:

> >

August 11, 2008

Live at al,

I'd like to interject a slightly different take on bath exhaust fans.

They only remove moisture that is in the air, so they work fine during

showering but afterwards, most of the moisture is in liquid form,

covering the walls of the tub, shower, etc. or adsorbed into porous

surfaces. And if you take long, hot showers,condensed drops of water

may even be on the ceiling and walls.

The bathroom ceiling exhaust fan is not very efficient at removing

this condensed or adsorbed moisture and that is why some of you may be

seeing mold, even if you run the exhaust fan for an hour after

showering. The problem is that the ceiling exhaust does not really

move the air around much and air movement is the key to rapid

evaporation.

Even on an airplane wing surface while flying, there is a thin film of

air, called the boundary layer, that does not move. The rate of

evaporation from a surface depends on the difference in concentration

of water vapor in the boundary layer air and the tendancy of the water

on the surface (called the vapor pressure) to evaporate. The thickness

of the boundary layer air depends on the speed of the air over the

surface; the slower the air movement, the thicker the layer.

The concentration of water vapor (its " relative humidity, RH " if you

will) in the boundary layer is much higher than the concentration in

the " bulk " room air; in fact, in very still air, the RH in the

boundary-layer air can be close to 100%, so there is very little

evaporation from the surface into the boundary layer. The drying time

is determined by how fast the boundary layer mixes into the bulk of

the room air.

So the answer to this problem is to move the air around in the room

with an oscillating table or tower fan (plugged into a GFI of

course!). This removes some of the boundary layer air and the moisture

it contains and speeds the drying out.

You can get a tower fan with a timer or use the inexpenisve timer

outlets with a table-top fan, but running the fan for an hour should

completely dry the bathroom out under most conditions.

I would certainly try this method before investing a lot of money in a

ceiling exhaust fan if you don't already have one.

Bathroom exhausts were originally required by building codes to remove

odors, not moisture. They are very inefficient at drying bathrooms.

Air movement and mixing are the key to drying.