CleanStream vacuum filters

[Guest guest]

I checked out the CleanStream Web site.

Yes, I will be critical and ask some tough questions. I've sent an

e-mail to the company. However, this looks like it has excellent

possibilities.

Several years ago Dupont had a material called HySurf with a 1

micron pore size. Another company made vacuum cleaner bags

out of it and they were terrific! The vacuums with a HEPA filtered

exhaust (without leakage) were no longer necessary for about

80% of my hypersensitive clients. 1 micron seemed sufficient and

using them was a lot cheaper than a true HEPA vacuum.

Unfortunately, Hysurf is no longer available.

Now to GoreTex ClearStream filters.

When I Google ClearStream the first entry clearly identifies it as a

HEPA filter:

Gore CleanStream Washable High Efficiency (HEPA)

Vacuum Cleaner FiltersW. L. Gore & Associates'

washable, high efficiency CleanStream filters capture ...

But it doesn't meet the definition of HEPA in configuration and the

Web site does not give a rating. To be a HEPA it must contain

the words " 99.97% at 0.3 microns. " If it doesn't say that it isn't a

HEPA and you should not be paying a premium for it.

It will be, instead, a HEPA-like or HEPA-style filter which even the

ClearStream Web site cautions against.

So is ClearStream truly a HEPA (99.97% at 0.3 micron) or is it as

good or better than HEPA? Or is it another company putting

confusing marketing words ahead of the facts?

BTW, I don't think HEPA is necessary. For example, the upright

vacuums that are HEPA do have a true HEPA filter in it but it

leaks so the actual performance isn't even close to HEPA

performance. But it is better than any bag or bagless system so it

is a good benefit.

I am pleased to see something along the HySurf lines. I just want

to be clear because I'm hearing people say it is HEPA and can be

washed and I don't know of any HEPA material that can

withstand being washed.

But maybe this is " good enough " and can be washed. If so, I'll

again have a vacuum cleaner bag to recommend!

Anybody actually use these? BTW, to answer LiveSimply's

question I don't see why the same media couldn't be used in a

room purifier. Again, HEPA isn't always necessary, they are just

the most common and can be quite inexpensive.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> CleanStream makes washable, reuseable HEPA filters for vacumn cleaners.

>

> Maybe they would do something similar for air cleaners?

>

> The HEPA filters for the Whirlpool units I have experience with cost

> around $65 and last six months to a year.

>

> But if you are doing construction work, or stirring up a lot of dust, much

less.

>

> The resistance goes up and they stop working.

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

[Guest guest]

Carl,

I could send you " before " and " after " photos of this filter in use.

Its incredible.

You use a regular garden hose to wash it..

Its like having a new filter every time. It works.

I usually wear my North half-face respirator with HEPA filters when

vacuming just out of habit, but I have found I can take it off and

there have been times recently when I just forgot with no ill

effects..

(we have also been steadily making our house less reactive as time

goes on with the various improvements, also my time post-mold is

growing longer.. i.e. I'm slowly recovering on subtle

levels..hopefully I can keep it up..)

Our other vacumn cleaner is supposedly a " sealed HEPA " filter, and it

won top rating for being good .. but when I use it without the serious

N-100 HEPA mask, I get ill..

I think the ability to wash the filter every time is removing some

*microscopic* old gunk that the other vacumn keeps.. maybe inside its

HEPA filter - that seems to make ALL the difference for me..

[Guest guest]

Interesting observations, Live. Similar to what I heard previously

from my clients. They, too, soon forgot to put on their mask if the

vacuum system they were using was no longer a source of

exposure.

BTW, the HEPA vacuum should have been better but there are

other factors involved. The HEPA media may be sealed (to its

frame) but not sealed to the vacuum fixture. Which means some

dirt blows around the HEPA filter through a small leak. A power

head disturbs the carpet and not all the dust gets sucked up.

All the components need to work together to be effective. As an

example, you'd think the professional HEPA filters, otherwise

know as " air scrubbers " or " negative air machines, " would be the

best. They certainly cost more. IESO is currently developing a

standard to verify they meet specifications on-site. What the

committee is finding is that almost none are successful. The

HEPA media is fine, but the fit around the edges inside the

equipment is usually the problem.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Carl,

>

> I could send you " before " and " after " photos of this filter in use.

> Its incredible.

>

> You use a regular garden hose to wash it..

>

> Its like having a new filter every time. It works.

>

> I usually wear my North half-face respirator with HEPA filters when

> vacuming just out of habit, but I have found I can take it off and

> there have been times recently when I just forgot with no ill

> effects..

>

> (we have also been steadily making our house less reactive as time

> goes on with the various improvements, also my time post-mold is

> growing longer.. i.e. I'm slowly recovering on subtle

> levels..hopefully I can keep it up..)

>

> Our other vacumn cleaner is supposedly a " sealed HEPA " filter, and it

> won top rating for being good .. but when I use it without the serious

> N-100 HEPA mask, I get ill..

>

> I think the ability to wash the filter every time is removing some

> *microscopic* old gunk that the other vacumn keeps.. maybe inside its

> HEPA filter - that seems to make ALL the difference for me..

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

[Guest guest]

This may be the reason the situation works well. The wet-dry vac is

very simple. The hose, nozzles and body of the vacumn are all washable

and get washed when the filter gets washed.. (hosed down, at least,

NOT with soap (they expressly instruct you not to use soap)

The effect is that each time its cleaned, the part of the vacumn that

gets routinely exposed to pre-filtered, dirty stuff, gets at least

mechanically cleaned..

I think that having even a tiny amount of contaminant from a bad mold

is more inflammatory for me than being exposed to lots of other stuff.

My current home isn't by any means perfect, its also an older home..

(its around 50 years old) but its fundamentally dry and the various

issues that existed have been addressable.. This cleanable vacumn is

the most recent of a number of things that have been a big help.

I also have been thinking a lot about what says about how if you

can get your overall inflammmation level down you can weather the

occasional serious exposure..

I think that is true..

But this process takes a LONG time.. years..

I'm now around 2 years post mold.

I am still dealing with a lot of issues.. too..

Still have not been able to do the technical stuff..still have not

been able to do any real math..

Still forget things like crazy..

[Guest guest]

I just received this response from CleanStream:

...all of our replacement Wet/Dry Vacuum filters are

HEPA rated except for the Genie model. Our filters meet

the U.S. HEPA standard which is 99.97% efficient at

capturing 0.3 micron particles and larger.  Other

companies make HEPA rated material claims, but when

they are assembled into a finished filter, they do not fully

seal the filters and therefor, the filters themselves are not

HEPA rated, only the material rating prior to assembly

will meet HEPA.

This is looking very good and will be interested in reports from

any of you that they them.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> This may be the reason the situation works well. The wet-dry vac is

> very simple. The hose, nozzles and body of the vacumn are all washable

> and get washed when the filter gets washed.. (hosed down, at least,

> NOT with soap (they expressly instruct you not to use soap)

>

> The effect is that each time its cleaned, the part of the vacumn that

> gets routinely exposed to pre-filtered, dirty stuff, gets at least

> mechanically cleaned..

>

> I think that having even a tiny amount of contaminant from a bad mold

> is more inflammatory for me than being exposed to lots of other stuff.

>

> My current home isn't by any means perfect, its also an older home..

> (its around 50 years old) but its fundamentally dry and the various

> issues that existed have been addressable.. This cleanable vacumn is

> the most recent of a number of things that have been a big help.

>

> I also have been thinking a lot about what says about how if you

> can get your overall inflammmation level down you can weather the

> occasional serious exposure..

>

> I think that is true..

>

> But this process takes a LONG time.. years..

>

> I'm now around 2 years post mold.

>

> I am still dealing with a lot of issues.. too..

>

> Still have not been able to do the technical stuff..still have not

> been able to do any real math..

>

> Still forget things like crazy..

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

[Guest guest]

is this the new vacumcleaner that filters and catches everything

through water I've seen advertized? no filter, or are you talking about

shop vac's. couldn't remember the name of it. looked to be a very good

idea.

--- In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...>

wrote:

>

> I just received this response from CleanStream:

>

> ...all of our replacement Wet/Dry Vacuum filters are

> HEPA rated except for the Genie model. Our filters meet

> the U.S. HEPA standard which is 99.97% efficient at

> capturing 0.3 micron particles and larger.  Other

> companies make HEPA rated material claims, but when

[Guest guest]

oh, maybe they do have filters, heres a link with several different

brands

http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/Water_Filter_Vacuum_Cleaner.html

--- In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...>

wrote:

>

> I just received this response from CleanStream:

>

> ...all of our replacement Wet/Dry Vacuum filters are

> HEPA rated except for the Genie model. Our filters meet

> the U.S. HEPA standard which is 99.97% efficient at

> capturing 0.3 micron particles and larger.  Other

> companies make HEPA rated material claims, but when

> they are assembled into a finished filter, they do not fully

> seal the filters and therefor, the filters themselves are not

> HEPA rated, only the material rating prior to assembly

> will meet HEPA.

>

[Guest guest]

here's the type I was thinking of,ir something like it. it uses water

as the filter, everything stays in the water. the vacuum sucks up the

dirt aling with the air and it goes into a tank of water where the

water filters out the particles and only clean air comes out.

H20 water filtration vacuum cleaner

http://www.alibaba.com/product-

gs/208604158/WATER_FILTRATION_VACUUM_CLEANER_TVH3324_.html

http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/Water_Filter_Vacuum_Cleaner.html

--- In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...>

wrote:

>

> I just received this response from CleanStream:

>

> ...all of our replacement Wet/Dry Vacuum filters are

> HEPA rated except for the Genie model. Our filters meet

> the U.S. HEPA standard which is 99.97% efficient at

> capturing 0.3 micron particles and larger.  Other

> companies make HEPA rated material claims, but when

> they are assembled into a finished filter, they do not fully

> seal the filters and therefor, the filters themselves are not

> HEPA rated, only the material rating prior to assembly

> will meet HEPA.

>

> This is looking very good and will be interested in reports from

> any of you that they them.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> > This may be the reason the situation works well. The wet-dry vac

is

> > very simple. The hose, nozzles and body of the vacumn are all

washable

> > and get washed when the filter gets washed.. (hosed down, at

least,

> > NOT with soap (they expressly instruct you not to use soap)

> >

> > The effect is that each time its cleaned, the part of the vacumn

that

> > gets routinely exposed to pre-filtered, dirty stuff, gets at least

> > mechanically cleaned..

> >

> > I think that having even a tiny amount of contaminant from a bad

mold

> > is more inflammatory for me than being exposed to lots of other

stuff.

> >

> > My current home isn't by any means perfect, its also an older

home..

> > (its around 50 years old) but its fundamentally dry and the

various

> > issues that existed have been addressable.. This cleanable

vacumn is

> > the most recent of a number of things that have been a big help.

> >

> > I also have been thinking a lot about what says about how if

you

> > can get your overall inflammmation level down you can weather the

> > occasional serious exposure..

> >

> > I think that is true..

> >

> > But this process takes a LONG time.. years..

> >

> > I'm now around 2 years post mold.

> >

> > I am still dealing with a lot of issues.. too..

> >

> > Still have not been able to do the technical stuff..still have not

> > been able to do any real math..

> >

> > Still forget things like crazy..

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > FAIR USE NOTICE:

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I had a vacuum many many years ago (when I had 4 dogs) that collected

all the dirt in a water compartment in the base... at the time I

thought it was disgusting because the water got so dirty and I hated

emptying it and I had a multi-level house at the time and it was

really tough doing stairs... It was called a Rainbow... I saw that

they were still selling them a few years ago... It's an in house sale

(someone comes to your home and does a presentation)... I thought it

was really expensive... If your not very sensitive you might want to

see if you can purchase one on e-bay... All in all it really did pick

up everything.

> >

> > I just received this response from CleanStream:

> >

> > ...all of our replacement Wet/Dry Vacuum filters are

> > HEPA rated except for the Genie model. Our filters meet

> > the U.S. HEPA standard which is 99.97% efficient at

> > capturing 0.3 micron particles and larger.  Other

> > companies make HEPA rated material claims, but when

>

[Guest guest]

The CleanStream Web site shows which ones use their filter. A

Eureka upright is $150 from a retailer. Most of the HEPA-types or

HEPA leaking ones are more expensive.

I'd prefer them to just supply replacement filters that fit existing

vacuums but they don't. What I liked about the Hysurf is they

looked just like all the ordinary bags and fit 90% of all existing

vacuums. But at least with the CleanStream you don't have to

keep buying HEPA filters.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Which one do you or LiveSimply recommend getting for my apartment?

> I'll buy it and report back as long as it isn't exorbitant.

>

>

> >

> > I just received this response from CleanStream:

> >

> > ...all of our replacement Wet/Dry Vacuum filters are

> > HEPA rated except for the Genie model. Our filters meet

> > the U.S. HEPA standard which is 99.97% efficient at

> > capturing 0.3 micron particles and larger.  Other

> > companies make HEPA rated material claims, but when

> > they are assembled into a finished filter, they do not fully

> > seal the filters and therefor, the filters themselves are not

> > HEPA rated, only the material rating prior to assembly

> > will meet HEPA.

> >

> > This is looking very good and will be interested in reports from

> > any of you that they them.

> >

> > Carl Grimes

> > Healthy Habitats LLC

> >

> > -----

> > > This may be the reason the situation works well. The wet-dry vac is

> > > very simple. The hose, nozzles and body of the vacumn are all washable

> > > and get washed when the filter gets washed.. (hosed down, at least,

> > > NOT with soap (they expressly instruct you not to use soap)

> > >

> > > The effect is that each time its cleaned, the part of the vacumn that

> > > gets routinely exposed to pre-filtered, dirty stuff, gets at least

> > > mechanically cleaned..

> > >

> > > I think that having even a tiny amount of contaminant from a bad mold

> > > is more inflammatory for me than being exposed to lots of other stuff.

> > >

> > > My current home isn't by any means perfect, its also an older home..

> > > (its around 50 years old) but its fundamentally dry and the various

> > > issues that existed have been addressable.. This cleanable vacumn is

> > > the most recent of a number of things that have been a big help.

> > >

> > > I also have been thinking a lot about what says about how if you

> > > can get your overall inflammmation level down you can weather the

> > > occasional serious exposure..

> > >

> > > I think that is true..

> > >

> > > But this process takes a LONG time.. years..

> > >

> > > I'm now around 2 years post mold.

> > >

> > > I am still dealing with a lot of issues.. too..

> > >

> > > Still have not been able to do the technical stuff..still have not

> > > been able to do any real math..

> > >

> > > Still forget things like crazy..

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > > FAIR USE NOTICE:

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

We bought our wet-dry shop vac for something like $50-60

They aren't that expensive. The regular HEPA filters are expensive..

and aren't reusable..(although they are supposed to last a long time,

they really aren't that durable)

The clean stream filter is much more robust..

The biggest issue, though, is that its very big, and very clumsy to

wheel around with its hoses.. etc.

so its mostly used for what a shop vac gets used for..

I'd like to use it more.. but I get flack.. (Its ugly and noisy

and very strong..)

But, as I said, when its washed out, it works very well.. The simple

design is good.

I wonder how long the filter lasts.. Its now about two months old and

its probably been washed out 10 times..

[Guest guest]

Bonnie,

Water vacuums are an expensive network marketing scam.

See Platts-Mills evaluation below.

If they work so well, why don't they use them in place of HEPA

cleaners for asbestos clean-up???

In a pinch, if you have something to clean up that requires a shop

vacuum, you can always keep the vacuum outside and use a very long

hose. That way the exhaust goes directly outside.

C. May

www.mayindoorair.com

www.myhouseiskillingme.com

" J Allergy Clin Immunol. 1993 Apr;91(4):829-37.

The effect of vacuum cleaners on the concentration and particle size

distribution of airborne cat allergen.

Woodfolk JA, Luczynska CM, de Blay F, Chapman MD, Platts-Mills TA.

Department of Medicine, University of Virginia Health Sciences Center,

Charlottesville 22908.

BACKGROUND: Vacuum cleaners are essential for the removal of dust from the

surface of carpets; however, they may also contribute to airborne dust both by

leakage through the cleaner and disturbance of floor dust.

METHODS: The present

studies used established techniques for measuring airborne Fel d I to

study the

effects of vacuum cleaners on airborne cat allergen under laboratory

conditions

and in houses with cats. Nine different models were loaded with dust

containing

50 mg Fel d I and run for 15 minutes in a laboratory room (volume

approximately

18 m3). Leakage was expressed as the airborne concentration of allergen in

nanograms per cubic meter.

RESULTS: Cleaners incorporating a double-thickness dust bag either did

not leak, that is, less than 0.4 ng Fel d I/m3 or had minor

leakage approximately 5 ng/m3. Vacuum cleaners with single-thickness

paper bags

leaked more, that is, 15 to > 90 ng/m3 with the exception of the

cleaner with an efficient outer bag.

Detailed studies on a vacuum cleaner that leaked showed that placing

dust in the bag, replacing the dust bag with a double-thickness bag,

and placing an electrostatic filter over the exhaust reduced levels

from greater than 90 ng/m3 to less than 2 ng/m3.

Two water-filter vacuum cleaners each emitted cat allergen (up to >

100 ng/m3) with a mean of approximately 90% on particles less than 2.5

microns diameter. This emission could be almost completely controlled

by taping electrostatic filter paper over the air outlet.

CONCLUSIONS: In houses with cats, different models of vacuum cleaners

could either reduce or increase total airborne allergen, and could

also selectively increase certain particle sizes. These results

suggest that cat allergen is a good model for studying the

effectiveness of vacuum cleaners recommended to allergic patients. "

> 9a. Re: CleanStream vacuum filters

> Posted by: " bonniel215 " bonniel215@... bonniel215

> Date: Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:42 pm ((PDT))

>

> I had a vacuum many many years ago (when I had 4 dogs) that collected

> all the dirt in a water compartment in the base... at the time I

> thought it was disgusting because the water got so dirty and I hated

> emptying it and I had a multi-level house at the time and it was

> really tough doing stairs... It was called a Rainbow... I saw that

> they were still selling them a few years ago... It's an in house sale

> (someone comes to your home and does a presentation)... I thought it

> was really expensive... If your not very sensitive you might want to

> see if you can purchase one on e-bay... All in all it really did pick

> up everything.

>

>

>>

>> is this the new vacumcleaner that filters and catches everything

>> through water I've seen advertized? no filter, or are you talking

> about

>> shop vac's. couldn't remember the name of it. looked to be a very

> good

>> idea.

>>

>> --- In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@>

[Guest guest]

For Laminate floors, wood floors, and blinds and couches with vacuum cleaner do

you recommend for someone who has a lot of allergies?. We live in a dry area

that is agricultural and we have tons of dust daily. It is an ongoing battle.

Thanks.

[Guest guest]

Jeff,

I realize that you are the expert... (In fact I'm reading one of your

books right now) I was just responding to Jeanine question for the

name of a vacuum that used water as a filter, and also sharing my

experience with it... I was not touting it as a replacement for HEPA

or a miracle vacuum... Believe me, if I had loved it that much I

would have taken it when I divorced my ex.

> >>

> >> is this the new vacumcleaner that filters and catches everything

> >> through water I've seen advertized? no filter, or are you talking

> > about

> >> shop vac's. couldn't remember the name of it. looked to be a very

> > good

> >> idea.

> >>

> >> --- In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@>

>