Re: How to predict if mold will grow inside of gypsum wallboard - Jill

[Guest guest]

I've gotten this way too Jill. I used to ignore odors, now I notice

them alot because I'm paying attention, and I know they are important.

I would like to know more about this since it parallels something going

on here. When you said living room had fans on, do you mean you had

windows open in living room, but not master bedroom??

>

Last night it was extremely cool here for August, I kept the

> livingroom window fans on but not my master bedroom. I woke at one

> point, went to get some water, and went back into my master bedroom. I

> swear there was an ever so slight musty smell. I'm very attuned to

> this now and seem to have the nose of a dog, but it upsets me no end.

> Because I know the whole apartment is overall, just not very healthy,

> and I can't leave right now.

[Guest guest]

Hi Barb. Truth to tell, but folks, please don't tell me to move

yesterday, I'm doing the best I can in my situation:

1) I think the wall cavities in my apartment/building have always had

musty/mold stuff going on. Before getting lyme, I still noticed when I

moved into this apartment that if I turned my Austin air filter off

for even one day, there would be a musty smell. I also noticed that I

felt better in hotel rooms etc. I also noticed my linens would start

to smell musty in my closets after a period of time and I'd have to

re-wash them just to use them. I started putting bottles of essential

oil opened in the closets and leaving the doors slightly ajar.

However until I got lyme 8 years ago, I was feeling pretty good

overall so the reactions I had to the apartment were not extremely

noticeable. Also, after the gut demolition/renovation and all my

leaks, I think it all got much worse. A lot was stirred up and I was

in a " capsule " in a way, as they were gutting and rebuilding the

courtyard under me, AND they were gutting and renovating 3 apartments

over me. So whatever got stirred up, I was in the middle of it

2) Nonetheless my small bedroom is by FAR the worst, thats where the

dry rot shelves were and where I was completely stuffed up if I slept

in there

3) I have isolated that bedroom airflow-wise for the time being but

when winter comes what will I do? I've kept the window open, austin

air filter on, and door closed. I've got windows open in every other

room, and window fans in the LR and the master BR. Thus negative air

pressure is created in that room, keeping any ambient spores away from me.

I really feel upset about the whole thing. I know lyme has made me

much more sensitive and impaired my health a lot, but the fact is, now

I'm sensitive to molds and to chemicals at a new level. I was always

pretty sensitive, though and that may be genetic. In any case, trying

to navigate between the laundry room machines (these new machines

don't clean well and everything washed down there ends up smelling

like Downy), the laundry room itself (they moved it when they

renovated and its now directly under me so I can sometimes smell the

Bounce dryer stuff in my apartment), the other stuff they constantly

use now that we're luxury condo (industrial scented detergents to mop

the marble floor, some kind of disgusting scented powders to " clean "

the carpeted hallways, and napthalene to cover the dead rat smell in

the basement)...along with the fact that the bldg has mold issues, is

just so frustrating.

I hope I can leave in a reaonable amount of time but i'm now aware

from this list I have to be super careful as to where I choose to

live. I really have to " vet " a place and test it before buying.

[Guest guest]

It could be when you walked through house during night with the windows

ventilating them, you left the odor in your room that you became

accustomed to because you had spent many hours in the room,and you were

breathing fresh air when you went to get water, and when you went back

into bedroom you noticed odor again since it was 'new' to you again. I

have discovered I get very accustomed to organic smells and can't smell

them anymore unless I leave the room and then return. Sounds like what

happened, and I know how upsetting that is, to realize you are

breathing that and didn't notice it. It could be you are creating

negative pressure there so spores from there, if any, would leave room,

but the negative pressure could be dragging them out of walls. Try

doing the opposite, creating positive pressure in bedroom when you

sleep in there. Is it possible to sleep out in locked car on nice

night? Ignore my direct email to you about this, as I didn't see this

post in group already.

>

> Hi Barb. Truth to tell, but folks, please don't tell me to move

> yesterday,

[Guest guest]

The place might be better in the winter since the air is so dried out.

Sometimes mold goes into hiberation for awhile when it is very dry or

cold. Depends on where it is.

>

> Hi Barb. I'm going to run fans in LR and BR 24/7 like I've been doing

> until about Oct. That does keep positive pressure in both rooms. Then

> it will get so cold I'm not sure what to do. Then I may have to stay

> somewhere else this winter. I don't know...

>

[Guest guest]

problem is that particles are more airborne when it's dry.

> >

> > Hi Barb. I'm going to run fans in LR and BR 24/7 like I've been

doing

> > until about Oct. That does keep positive pressure in both rooms.

Then

> > it will get so cold I'm not sure what to do. Then I may have to stay

> > somewhere else this winter. I don't know...

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Jill,

Why is it so cold? I know about the fans - but - are you unable to use

a (presumably forced air or similar) heating system because of mold?

>

>>

>> Hi Barb. I'm going to run fans in LR and BR 24/7 like I've been doing

>> until about Oct. That does keep positive pressure in both rooms. Then

>> it will get so cold I'm not sure what to do. Then I may have to stay

>> somewhere else this winter. I don't know...

>>

>

[Guest guest]

I have radiator heat (prewar building). I don't like it at all as heat

that comes out of old radiators smells bad to me and really is not

very healthy. I use an electric radiator and also use heat lamps. But

in the winter my place stays fairly warm if windows are closed,

because there is a steam pipe running thru my kitchen that gets very

hot and functions like a huge radiator itself. OTOH by late Oct early

Nov its pretty cold at night in NYC and you wouldn't be running the

window fans. I'm trying to plan ahead to get my boyfriend to move

and/or a friend has a vacation house in Sag Harbor, and built a new

waterfront vacation house for herself as well. I think that other

house is pretty safe and have slept there in the past (in healthier

state) but am thinking I could possibly rent it for cheap this winter.

We'll see. Its very hard with lyme to know exactly how much mold is

affecting me, too.

Barb said places are less moldy in the winter but I was so stuffed up

in my small bedroom last winter, I couldn't breathe thru my nose at

all and I will not gross you out with more details :-). So, whatever

is in my place is not too good. I suspect, with no good reason why,

its aspergillus. I don't think I have stachy tho I could behind the

bathroom tiles, but from what I've seen, if I had stachy I'd be much

worse.

> >>

> >> Hi Barb. I'm going to run fans in LR and BR 24/7 like I've been doing

> >> until about Oct. That does keep positive pressure in both rooms. Then

> >> it will get so cold I'm not sure what to do. Then I may have to stay

> >> somewhere else this winter. I don't know...

> >>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

It could be less moldy in winter if humid conditions of outside air can

get to area that is moldy. If it is just fed by inside humidity,

keeping inside dry could help. If there is alot of mold though, it can

irritate you even if it isn't growing. Your sinuses are dry in the

winter which can make fine cracks in them, and they can be irritated

more. Inhaling warm mist or other tricks to keep sinuses drier or

using saline sprays or do sinus wash might help.

-- In , " jill1313 " <jenbooks13@...> wrote:

>

> Barb said places are less moldy in the winter but I was so stuffed up

> in my small bedroom last winter, I couldn't breathe thru my nose at

> all and I will not gross you out with more details :-). So, whatever

> is in my place is not too good. I suspect, with no good reason why,

> its aspergillus. I don't think I have stachy tho I could behind the

> bathroom tiles, but from what I've seen, if I had stachy I'd be much

> worse.

>

[Guest guest]

Have yoi ever considered installing a heat recovery ventilator in a

window (or better, two windows, because its good if the intake and

exhaust are physically separated)

Something like this unit might be good.. Its small and only has 4 " vent hoses..

http://www.fantech.net/vhr704.pdf

Using an HRV you could recover most of the heat that would normally go

out the window, and have year round ventilation.

Hydronic heating is good. Maybe your radiators are dirty?

On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 10:02 AM, jill1313 <jenbooks13@...> wrote:

> I have radiator heat (prewar building). I don't like it at all as heat

> that comes out of old radiators smells bad to me and really is not

> very healthy. I use an electric radiator and also use heat lamps. But

> in the winter my place stays fairly warm if windows are closed,

> because there is a steam pipe running thru my kitchen that gets very

> hot and functions like a huge radiator itself. OTOH by late Oct early

> Nov its pretty cold at night in NYC and you wouldn't be running the

> window fans. I'm trying to plan ahead to get my boyfriend to move

> and/or a friend has a vacation house in Sag Harbor, and built a new

> waterfront vacation house for herself as well. I think that other

> house is pretty safe and have slept there in the past (in healthier

> state) but am thinking I could possibly rent it for cheap this winter.

> We'll see. Its very hard with lyme to know exactly how much mold is

> affecting me, too.

>

> Barb said places are less moldy in the winter but I was so stuffed up

> in my small bedroom last winter, I couldn't breathe thru my nose at

> all and I will not gross you out with more details :-). So, whatever

> is in my place is not too good. I suspect, with no good reason why,

> its aspergillus. I don't think I have stachy tho I could behind the

> bathroom tiles, but from what I've seen, if I had stachy I'd be much

> worse.

>

>

>> >>

>> >> Hi Barb. I'm going to run fans in LR and BR 24/7 like I've been doing

>> >> until about Oct. That does keep positive pressure in both rooms. Then

>> >> it will get so cold I'm not sure what to do. Then I may have to stay

>> >> somewhere else this winter. I don't know...

>> >>

>> >

>>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Reading more of your post, and thinking about my own experiences..

This could be a complicated and difficult situation. You need to know

some things you don't know. If I were you, I would have some

environmental testing done, by a responsible firm.

What is your risk tolerance, could you

handle being forced to move out, perhaps for a long time, with ALL

your stuff, perhaps many years worth of stuff, while work was done

that may or may not cure the problem, depending on the responsibility

of your landord to address it?

You would probably have to stay with friends or in a hotel. I don't

know how the rent stabilization laws where you live go, but typically,

if you find another place to live, that is not short term, you lose

your protection, and the rent gets jacked up. So you are stuck paying

through the nose for hotels or staying with friends.. If they want you

to move, then ...

Have you done any environmental testing? You really should, as the

mold might be mild, or it might be serious, and as you said, since you

have lyme, its hard for you to know. Definitely, an HRV/ERV would

help, but don't expect a miracle in a bad situation, especially if you

live in a multi-story building, there will be a stack effect that

drives vertical airflow in a buildings walls. Hard to address!

What kind of landlord do you have and how much below market rate are

you paying? Do they deal wth urgent issues quickly, or are they a bad

landlord. In general, the higher the average income of the tenants in

the building, the more they respond to complaints, but there are many

bad landlords who refuse to deal with mold.

On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 10:02 AM, jill1313 <jenbooks13@...> wrote:

> I have radiator heat (prewar building).

You mean hot water or steam? Either one should not carry air into your

apartment from other units..

Are the radiators dirty? f so, clean them. Barb has posted a lot on this.

I don't like it at all as heat

> that comes out of old radiators smells bad to me and really is not

> very healthy. I use an electric radiator

??? do you mean one of those oil-filled electric heaters? That is an

electric heater..

> and also use heat lamps. But

> in the winter my place stays fairly warm if windows are closed,

> because there is a steam pipe running thru my kitchen that gets very

> hot and functions like a huge radiator itself.

Cool! Maybe you could add some aluminum fins to it to extract even more heat?

> OTOH by late Oct early

> Nov its pretty cold at night in NYC and you wouldn't be running the

> window fans.

You always need at least some fresh air.. Its your choice,

do you want t to come from inside of your walls or outside?

And HRV would warm that incoming air to the point where it was ~50

degrees even on sub freezing days..

>I'm trying to plan ahead to get my boyfriend to move

> and/or a friend has a vacation house in Sag Harbor, and built a new

> waterfront vacation house for herself as well. I think that other

> house is pretty safe and have slept there in the past (in healthier

> state) but am thinking I could possibly rent it for cheap this winter.

> We'll see. Its very hard with lyme to know exactly how much mold is

> affecting me, too.

>

Keep that in mind. But you need to get better.

Depending on your age, your NYC apartment could be worth hundreds

of thousands of dollars in saved rent. Keep that in mind.

> Barb said places are less moldy in the winter but I was so stuffed up

> in my small bedroom last winter, I couldn't breathe thru my nose at

> all and I will not gross you out with more details :-). So, whatever

> is in my place is not too good. I suspect, with no good reason why,

> its aspergillus. I don't think I have stachy tho I could behind the

> bathroom tiles, but from what I've seen, if I had stachy I'd be much

> worse.

[Guest guest]

I had dirty radiators in apartment I rented for a year. They really

had an impact on my health. I cleaned them out finally but finally

decided to get most of my heat from my own stand alone heater. They

can be really full of nasty stuff. You are right to not use them or as

little as possible. One I was able to turn off and I covered it

completely. Other one I wasn't so I cleaned it out well and heated

room as much as possible with my stand alone heater so it wouldn't come

on. When I went to neighbors apartment once in awhile about something,

and they opened their door...p-hew!

>

> I have radiator heat (prewar building). I don't like it at all as heat

> that comes out of old radiators smells bad to me and really is not

> very healthy.

[Guest guest]

They are really quite simple. They basically are a box with two fans

in them, and a heat exchanger, which is basically a big labyrinth-like

chunk of metal that passes heat, but which keeps the airflow apart.

Typically its like an aluminum baffle or heatsink, between the two airflows..

The two airflows therefore can exchange heat..

The fans both push air into and pull air out of your home, the same

amount on each side, there are intake and exhaust vents both outside

and inside your home.

You could install the intake and exhaust in a window, or pair of

windows.. If they are in the same window, they should be as far apart

as possible, perhaps facing in different directions.. The inside

supply and return should just be ducting that separates the two

physically.. You could put one duct in one room and the other duct in

another room..that way it would encourage air circulation throughout

the space.. but the airflow would generally be from the supply to the

return. (duh)

The result is fresh air.. that is moderated in temperature..

They are 60-70% efficient, which I think is pretty good..

On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 7:47 PM, jill1313 <jenbooks13@...> wrote:

> Hi Live, forgive me but I have no idea what those are-heat recovery

> ventilators--and can't tell from the picture what it does or how it

> works? What the heck is it? I never even heard of it.

>

>

>>

>> Have yoi ever considered installing a heat recovery ventilator in a

>> window (or better, two windows, because its good if the intake and

>> exhaust are physically separated)

>>

>> Something like this unit might be good.. Its small and only has 4 "

> vent hoses..

>> http://www.fantech.net/vhr704.pdf

>>

>> Using an HRV you could recover most of the heat that would normally go

>> out the window, and have year round ventilation.

>>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The radiators that you couldn't get out, why not cover them so nothing

gets out into the room from them...if you are SURE they are shut off.

If you used something inflamable it would be good just in case but the

heat from those radiators is so mild I doubt anything could burn. I

started throwing wet towels on them to dry them out.

>

> removed the radiator in the small bedroom, and then we

> removed the shelving which is what exposed the dry-rot

[Guest guest]

I still can't visualize it but will try to study it this weekend. This

sounds like a great idea for any home that has to deal with cold

winters but you want air circulation.

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> They are really quite simple. They basically are a box with two fans

> in them, and a heat exchanger, which is basically a big labyrinth-like

> chunk of metal that passes heat, but which keeps the airflow apart.

>

[Guest guest]

In mine, the air flows through the core like the two legs of a bix " x "

like this outside intake outside exhaust

X

inside return inside supply

The fans are very quiet.. and I also have a control that lets us set

various speeds and duty cycles...

right now its on low, and 15 minutes on an hour... It can also

recirculate air around our space

without bringng any in.. thats good for very hot or very cold days..

[Guest guest]

I am definitely going to look on ebay. I'm not very mechanical but I

think I'm starting to understand it.