Re: Cleanliness of basement :

[Guest guest]

Barb,

My fanaticism is based on the thousands of problems I have seen in

homes with moldy and pest-infested basements.

In cold climates, much of the " fresh " air in the winter comes from the

basement. Some is drawn up by the stack effect, some by convection

(hot air rising from a boiler and the hot pipes) and some by leakage

when forced air distribution systems are present. (And you get lots

more basement air if you leave the basement door open so the cat can

get to the litter box.)

You live in your basement whether you want or not. So why should the

basement look any different from the rest of the house?

Most basements have mice and other rodents nesting in the exposed

ceiling fiberglass (which is also full of mold in over 60% of

basements if they have not been dehumidified since day one), mouse

droppings all over the top of the foundation wall, foundation walls

covered with moldy dust and dead insects and their excrement all over

the floor. Most of the stored furniture in basements should be tossed

because the pieces are full of mold too.

Sorry to paint such a grim picture but anything below grade is

" buried " in a sense and is at risk unless you control the RH

religiously. All pest litter is potentially allergenic.

Allergy, asthma, etc. are diseases of the dust and the more you have,

the more likely you are to have exposure issues. And what's on the

floor and in the basement is more likely to cause trouble than what's

in a wall cavity.

So HEPA vacuum away!

Since I am being grim, here's a gruesome situation I just encountered.

A homowner was complaining of an odor from the heat supply in her

office. The source was a long-since evaporated puddle of urine that a

thoughtful contractor had deposited while working in the home.

In another home, someone dropped a cup of coffee into a register; the

liquid ended up in the basement duct where it curdled and soured,

giving the air a putrid odor.

Cheers!

C. May

www.myhouseiskillingme.com

________________________________________________________________________

> 12. Cleanliness of basement :

> Posted by: " barb1283 " barb1283@... barb1283

> Date: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:57 pm ((PDT))

>

> , I've been meaning to ask you this but keep forgetting. Why is

> it so important for basement to be so clean? I saw the little film

> clip where you recommend that basement floor should be clean enough to

> eat off of. I'm pretty far from that, even in living part of house,

> but I'm working on it.

>

> Basement floor gets dirty quickly I have noticed. I guess just due to

> gravity?? Any other reason why basement air is to be avoided?

>

> Even if there are NO basement leaking problems, why is basement air so

> inferior to rest of house?

>

> Thanks

>

>

[Guest guest]

>This is a great great question. I have an unfinished basement (due to

the fact that I had to gut it during mold remediation). Is this bad? I

can't afford to finish it (and am frankly scared of construction)so

I'm leaving it unfinished.

Is there a problem I don;t know about just brewing up down there? We

are all kind of learning as we go, so before my unfinished basement

turns into a living hell for me, should I be doing anything?

> , I've been meaning to ask you this but keep forgetting. Why is

> it so important for basement to be so clean? I saw the little film

> clip where you recommend that basement floor should be clean enough to

> eat off of. I'm pretty far from that, even in living part of house,

> but I'm working on it.

>

> Basement floor gets dirty quickly I have noticed. I guess just due to

> gravity?? Any other reason why basement air is to be avoided?

>

> Even if there are NO basement leaking problems, why is basement air so

> inferior to rest of house?

>

> Thanks

>

[Guest guest]

Your right. When I first came here to take care of my greataunt,

there was visible mold on both front corners of the house. I had

alot to do, taking care of her and working to support myself, so I

left it alone. I didn't do anything about it until she couldn't make

it up the stairs anymore and I considered cleaning up and painting

basement which is only half sunken and has 4 fairly good size windows

plus another two in third of it that houses garage. I looked around

to see if I could fix half sunken basement into reasonable

accomodations for her and THEN and only THEN decided the mold had to

go. At least I knew better than to put her down right next to it,

but youre right I didn't think mold in basement could bother us in

house above it. I also didn't think the mold would bother you unless

you were next to it or touching it. Didn't know anything about it,

except it looked unsightly and obviously not clean, due to a

foundation leak that was tiny but persistent. Boy, have I come a

long way from that.

I took her car that was an antique Cadillac, 1965, to get a repair

job in 1999 and mechanic didn't think it was worth repairing,

referring to it as an old, moldy car. I was offended. Of course it

was in garage that had foundation problem, but I figured it could

just sit out in the sun and 'air out'! So, I wasn't hyper about

germs and mold by nature obviously!! I took wonderful car, that I

loved, because it was hers, to someone more caring and had it fixed

and sold it for $3k, which was same price she paid for it in 1965!

She had the original bill of sale in her desk papers.

On another note:

There's a company here that does foundation repair and they do a

package deal of outside and inside of foundation all around the

house, and part of package is a ventilator that is in basement that

draws air out of basement to outside creating a negative air space.

Air movement science is so complex I think, I wasn't sure what to

think. I usually think creating negative air as undesireable but if

it was a very low volume of air in basement, may be it is good-?

[Guest guest]

Jeff,

**Thank you** for all the information! I hope you dont mind my asking

you some questions..

What is the best coating for a concrete basement floor that would be

highly cleanable?

I think that concrete can be really nice if its done right, *and

smooth*? Or epoxy..? (how long does it take to cure?)

And also what do you recommend for insulating sill plates? Foam?

By the way, Barb, I have seen some special vents that you can put in a

basement wall that allow make up air in.. They have dampers.. I think

Panasonic makes one but its ludicrously overpriced for what it is..

There's another manufacturer that makes them for around $20. I forget

the name but I will hunt it down.

[Guest guest]

Surella, May in his book, My HOuse is Killing me says not to

finish a basement or to live in it, or to spend much time in it. Just

keep it clean, and sealed off from mixing with living space air as much

as possible. I haven't achieved that but that is what he recommends in

his book.

--- In , " surellabaer " <surellabaer@...>

wrote:

>

>This is a great great question. I have an unfinished basement (due to

> the fact that I had to gut it during mold remediation). Is this bad? I

> can't afford to finish it (and am frankly scared of construction)so

> I'm leaving it unfinished.

> Is there a problem I don;t know about just brewing up down there? We

> are all kind of learning as we go, so before my unfinished basement

> turns into a living hell for me, should I be doing anything?

>

[Guest guest]

>Thanks Barb-I have not read his book so maybe its time I do. I am

going to go very conservative with my basement I think, finishing only

what becomes absolutely necessary.

To tell you the truth, I am kind of thrilled with the stripped bare

place-every day that its not moldy makes me happy. It's a bit dusty

but I can deal with that because I never NEVER go downstairs.

Thanks again, Surella

[Guest guest]

Barb,

There are a number of very over-priced ($1,000+), widely advertised

basement exhaust " systems " that supposedly dehumidify the basement.

This is nonsense. The only way to dehumidify a basement is with a

dehumidifier that cools the air to condense the moisture. Drawing in

outdoor air (even if it's from upstairs)just brings in more moisture

(unless the house is air conditioned)

Jeff

www.mayindoorair.com.

[Guest guest]

Live, see embedded answers.

Jeff

www.mayindoorair.com

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> Jeff,

>

> **Thank you** for all the information! I hope you dont mind my

asking

> you some questions..

>

> What is the best coating for a concrete basement floor that would be

> highly cleanable?

>

> I think that concrete can be really nice if its done right, *and

> smooth*? Or epoxy..? (how long does it take to cure?)

Any paint intended for concrete that is acceptable (as far as odor,

off-gassing) should be OK. I don't have any favorites. Two-part epoxy

paint should cure within hours but I don't know about different

brands. But yes, the idea is to make the surface cleanable. It's just

about impossible to clean coarse concrete. Just don't end up with

something that is too slippery!

>

> And also what do you recommend for insulating sill plates? Foam?

Sheet foam cut to size and caulked should be fine. Depending on the

humidity in your basement or crawl sapce, you have to be a bit

careful about condensation in winter. I have seen water condensed on

a sill where the fiberglass insulation was not installed with a

proper vapor barrier.

>

> By the way, Barb, I have seen some special vents that you can put

in a

> basement wall that allow make up air in.. They have dampers.. I

think

> Panasonic makes one but its ludicrously overpriced for what it is..

>

> There's another manufacturer that makes them for around $20. I

forget

> the name but I will hunt it down.

>

[Guest guest]

Live, are you talking about sill plates in basement and if so why do

these need to be insulated? Are these regular double hung or sliding

windows like you would see in living areas of house?

> > highly cleanable?

> >

> >And also what do you recommend for insulating sill plates? Foam?

>

> Sheet foam cut to size and caulked should be fine. Depending on the

> humidity in your basement or crawl sapce, you have to be a bit

> careful about condensation in winter. I have seen water condensed on

> a sill where the fiberglass insulation was not installed with a

> proper vapor barrier.

>