Re: Does mold odor go away when mold is killed? Or does it persist?

[Guest guest]

The bad news is that you can still react to dead mold spores, or have

symptoms. You must get rid of the spores: either down the drain or

in a vacuum bag and discard. llaci

[Guest guest]

Have you cleaned it all out, replaced the mold damaged materials, etc?

On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 12:44 PM, Judith <howdeeeyall@...> wrote:

> --or do you have to clean up all the dead mold before the odor goes

> away?

>

> I wrote yesterday about this--feel I'm being ripped off by a doctor's

> office who sold me a device/oil to kill mold. Musty smell remains

> after treating the area intensively.

>

> Need scientific fact re: mold odor persisting or not when mold is

> killed off. This was inside a kitchen cabinet, and also a musty

> chair. I have not done other cleaning yet.

>

> Thanks.

>

> Judith

>

>

[Guest guest]

be careful with vacuums and mold. Anything less than a good HEPA

vacuum will invariably make the situation worse by spreading it all

around your house.

Even just with regular dust, if you have been hypersensitized to mold

- or don't want to become so - (all of us!) then its smart to use a

GOOD HEPA vacuum only. And open your windows. I have three HEPA

vacuums, but the best is a washable HEPA filter (its made out of

Gore-Tex, evidently) that can be cleaned pretty easily outdoors after

each use. (Then I dry it out in the sun. )

That seems to work best for me.

YMMV.

[Guest guest]

>

> The bad news is that you can still react to dead mold spores, or have

> symptoms. You must get rid of the spores: either down the drain or

> in a vacuum bag and discard. llaci

>

I do realize this; the mold spores are still covered with toxins even

though dead. My question is only whether the moldy, musty odor goes

away when you kill mold, or whether it persists until you clean up the

dead mold and spores.

I have not cleaned up because I wanted to kill the mold first. Just

trying to figure out if this doctor's office is ignorant about the

facts (in which case I have been ripped off and want a refund) or if

they are correct (in which case, their products may have worked, and I

will consider getting more).

Judtih

[Guest guest]

> > --or do you have to clean up all the dead mold before the odor

goes

> > away?

> >

> > I wrote yesterday about this--feel I'm being ripped off by a

doctor's

> > office who sold me a device/oil to kill mold. Musty smell remains

> > after treating the area intensively.

> >

> > Need scientific fact re: mold odor persisting or not when mold is

> > killed off. This was inside a kitchen cabinet, and also a musty

> > chair. I have not done other cleaning yet.

> >

> > Thanks.

> >

> > Judith

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

What kind of smell is it? da,p musty/mildewu as in voc's maybe or

dry,earthy smell that may be mold/myco's? hope you not sticking your

nose right up there. you should wash your sinuses really well, leave

and see what it smell like when you come back.

[Guest guest]

some smells get in your nose and on your cloths and hair and your

still smelling them after the smell is gone.

[Guest guest]

This is not the problem. I don't smell them unless I poke my nose into

the cabinets, or sniff the chair. It's not all over.

Judith

>

> some smells get in your nose and on your cloths and hair and your

> still smelling them after the smell is gone.

>

[Guest guest]

Musty, mostly. Smells a bit earthy, too. Both.

I don't smell it except when I am very close to the source. My nose is

still discriminating very well.

If mustiness is caused by VOCs (that's what I assumed) then the mold is

still alive and producing lots of them. That's what I told the

doctor's office. But this could be wrong; I'm trying to find out.

Judith

>

> What kind of smell is it? da,p musty/mildewu as in voc's maybe or

> dry,earthy smell that may be mold/myco's? hope you not sticking your

> nose right up there. you should wash your sinuses really well, leave

> and see what it smell like when you come back.

>

[Guest guest]

What kind of vacuum do you have that works well?

Judith

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> be careful with vacuums and mold. Anything less than a good HEPA

> vacuum will invariably make the situation worse by spreading it all

> around your house.

>

[Guest guest]

is this that thief oil stuff?

[Guest guest]

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> is this that thief oil stuff?

>

It's got the same ingredients as Thieves Oil, but costs less. It may

be weaker; I don't know.

Judith

[Guest guest]

so did the oil he sold you also have a smell? had to....

mix the oil with mold spores and you probably have a new odor now...

llaci

[Guest guest]

Even with a good HEPA, you can gather spores on the vacuum itself and

hose and drag it through the house. Damp wipe off the vacuum after

using. llaci It's worth the bother.

[Guest guest]

>

> so did the oil he sold you also have a smell? had to....

> mix the oil with mold spores and you probably have a new odor now...

> llaci

>

That's really not the issue. What I'm smelling is the same old

musty/mold odor. The oil has a lovely herbal smell, very strong--

cloves and other herbs. That has pretty much dissipated, but the

underlying mustiness has not changed.

Judith

[Guest guest]

If you go to PubMed, you can search on mold remediation topics and

they have a fair amount of research there on what kinds of cleaning

techniques deconaminate mycotoxins and what techniques simply make

spores nonviable - without making a building safe or nonreactive for

people.

So, you used an air freshener for mold remediation? That you say was

sold for that purpose? What are the instructions on the package, and

does it have an EPA registration number or MSDS info? ( " materials

safety data sheet " - which tells you what the active ingredients are

and how dangerous/nondangerous they are..)

There has been a big debate here about biocides.. its hard to

generalize about them except to say that there are no silver

bullets..especially for sick people, removal of the mold is the only

method that reliably makes buildings safe for people.

And it can be expensive.. sometimes its cheaper to simply tear the

building down and replace it..

The same cautions can apply to personal belongings or even furniture

that has been partially consumed by mold.... Often, the best option is

to replace it, if you can afford tha.. It depends on the situation..

each one is different.

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure if you are writing to me or someone else, as you didn't

include part of the original post, and I have not used any air

freshener. Those products make me sick.

I used an herbal oil which is apparently similar to the " Thieves Oil "

from one company. It was claimed to kill mold. I thought it was

worth a try, but I can't discern any change in the odor in that area,

and I'm trying to find out whether that means the mold is still

alive, or whether the area could still smell the same even if the oil

has been effective. Carl has written that it's really not that

simple, and as you say, major cleaning and/or removal of the

materials in the area may be necessary.

There were no written instructions at all. I was given verbal

instructions when I called to order the diffuser and oil. There was

nothing with the package, which surprised me. It's from a doctor's

office that treats mostly cancer patients. I suppose they are trying

to stay under the radar with some of the things they sell.

I was trying to avoid major remediation at this time. It's a Catch-

22 situation which I'm sure most of us have faced--I have no income

and didn't want to go into debt to pay for remediation. But that may

be the only way to continue to live in this house without going

downhill even more. I haven't been able to work for over three

years, and it may be from hidden mold in the house.

I bought a small, used RV which was going to be my escape pod; I'd

live in that while remediation was done. But the RV makes me much

sicker than the house! I have to sell it. I have MCS and there is

something in there that I suppose most people could live with; I

can't.

The mold problem in the house seems to be relatively minor as far as

I can tell, and I do plan to get rid of most of my belongings. I

believe the mold in the house is making me sick because I was

sensitized by a very bad mold exposure at a job a few years ago. I

stayed in the job for months after I knew there was a mold problem,

which I regret. Security and loyalty kept me there; should have left

much sooner.

I have a book by Dr. Schaller that says there is no effective,

practical way to decontaminate spore toxins in a home. I had the

impression that they had to be removed because they could not be

decontaminated in that setting, though apparently research is ongoing

to develop a good method for the home.

Judith

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> If you go to PubMed, you can search on mold remediation topics and

> they have a fair amount of research there on what kinds of cleaning

> techniques deconaminate mycotoxins and what techniques simply make

> spores nonviable - without making a building safe or nonreactive for

> people.

>

> So, you used an air freshener for mold remediation? That you say was

> sold for that purpose? What are the instructions on the package, and

> does it have an EPA registration number or MSDS info? ( " materials

> safety data sheet " - which tells you what the active ingredients are

> and how dangerous/nondangerous they are..)

>

> There has been a big debate here about biocides.. its hard to

> generalize about them except to say that there are no silver

> bullets..especially for sick people, removal of the mold is the only

> method that reliably makes buildings safe for people.

>

> And it can be expensive.. sometimes its cheaper to simply tear the

> building down and replace it..

>

> The same cautions can apply to personal belongings or even furniture

> that has been partially consumed by mold.... Often, the best option

is

> to replace it, if you can afford tha.. It depends on the situation..

> each one is different.

>

[Guest guest]

Carl is right, its not simple.

And if it is making you THAT sick, it is not minor to you.

The crucial issue is removing the mold, and obviously, cost is an issue,

so you wont continue to get sicker, and THEN eliminating the

reasons (moisture, condensation, etc.)

why the mold grew so that it wont come back.

Can you afford around $40 for a decent half-face respirator and N-100

or P-100 (magenta-HEPA) filters, and get some

decent disposable gloves and old throwaway clothes you can throw away

afterward so at least

when you start opening walls up you wont be made ill by anything you

find, that is VERY important.

You should if at all possible, try to find a professional.. Don't just

be paralyzed by inaction but don't kill yourself either.

I don't want to get into a discussion

about various products because to be honest with you I am not familiar

with anything

like what you described. Cleaning and preventing further growth in

mold-contaminated

homes or decontaminating belongings has at various

times been a major problem for almost all of us and bluntly, there are

no easy answers

or magic panaceas. Often the solution involves lots of scrubbing and

scraping and removal

of lots of building materials. With belongings, often unsalvageable

belongings...

Its basically impossible for any professional (and I'm not a

professional) to really understand a situation without seeing

it and testing the mold that is found there.. There ARE many very

fixable, mild mold situations - usually houses that are basically dry

and which have been for the most part, well maintained, and there

are very serious situations in which the building's maintenance has

been chronically ignored and the cost is basically more expensive to

fix than to simply tear down and replace with new.. And lots of shades

of gray in between..

How long have you lived in your home and was it well maintained when

you bought it? Have you been able to stay on top of the maintainance?

[Guest guest]

To understand the situation that you find yourself in, it is advisable

to think of mold as being a " third gender " . Just as the first two

genders each have a " logic " of their own, which is incomprehensible to

the other gender, so does mold have it's own " mold logic " , which is

incomprehensible to all of us. The mold " logic " requires an ever

decreasing amount of mold, to give us as bad a reaction as we had

during our original massive mold exposure. Your " human logic " is

telling you that, since your current mold " problem " is so much smaller

than your original mold problem, at work, it should be relatively easy

to find and eliminate the small amount of mold that is making you sick.

Unfortunately, mold illness does NOT work that way. It will be

difficult to locate and " remediate " the small amount of mold that is

making you sick NOW, and during this " search and destroy " mission, you

will be just as sick as you were during your original, MASSIVE mold

exposure. That is " MOLD LOGIC " . And just as trying to fathom the

difference in male and female logic, it is a total waste of time to try

and figure out why this should be so. But, this is what is facing you,

in your fight to regain your health.

................................................................

>

> The mold problem in the house seems to be relatively minor as far as

> I can tell, and I do plan to get rid of most of my belongings. I

> believe the mold in the house is making me sick because I was

> sensitized by a very bad mold exposure at a job a few years ago. I

> stayed in the job for months after I knew there was a mold problem,

> which I regret. Security and loyalty kept me there; should have left

> much sooner.

[Guest guest]

Joe,

That was really well put..

Thank you.

On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 2:30 PM, joseph salowitz

<josephsalowitz@...> wrote:

> To understand the situation that you find yourself in, it is advisable

> to think of mold as being a " third gender " . Just as the first two

> genders each have a " logic " of their own, which is incomprehensible to

> the other gender, so does mold have it's own " mold logic " , which is

> incomprehensible to all of us. The mold " logic " requires an ever

> decreasing amount of mold, to give us as bad a reaction as we had

> during our original massive mold exposure. Your " human logic " is

> telling you that, since your current mold " problem " is so much smaller

> than your original mold problem, at work, it should be relatively easy

> to find and eliminate the small amount of mold that is making you sick.

> Unfortunately, mold illness does NOT work that way. It will be

> difficult to locate and " remediate " the small amount of mold that is

> making you sick NOW, and during this " search and destroy " mission, you

> will be just as sick as you were during your original, MASSIVE mold

> exposure. That is " MOLD LOGIC " . And just as trying to fathom the

> difference in male and female logic, it is a total waste of time to try

> and figure out why this should be so. But, this is what is facing you,

> in your fight to regain your health.

> ...............................................................

>

>

>

>>

>> The mold problem in the house seems to be relatively minor as far as

>> I can tell, and I do plan to get rid of most of my belongings. I

>> believe the mold in the house is making me sick because I was

>> sensitized by a very bad mold exposure at a job a few years ago. I

>> stayed in the job for months after I knew there was a mold problem,

>> which I regret. Security and loyalty kept me there; should have left

>> much sooner.

>

[Guest guest]

I have a word that might apply to all genders if you think about it.

R.E.S.P.E.C.T. : )

> > To understand the situation that you find yourself in, it is

advisable

> > to think of mold as being a " third gender " . Just as the first two

> > genders each have a " logic " of their own, which is

incomprehensible to

> > the other gender, so does mold have it's own " mold logic " , which

is

> > incomprehensible to all of us. The mold " logic " requires an ever

> > decreasing amount of mold, to give us as bad a reaction as we had

> > during our original massive mold exposure. Your " human logic " is

> > telling you that, since your current mold " problem " is so much

smaller

> > than your original mold problem, at work, it should be relatively

easy

> > to find and eliminate the small amount of mold that is making you

sick.

> > Unfortunately, mold illness does NOT work that way. It will be

> > difficult to locate and " remediate " the small amount of mold that

is

> > making you sick NOW, and during this " search and destroy "

mission, you

> > will be just as sick as you were during your original, MASSIVE

mold

> > exposure. That is " MOLD LOGIC " . And just as trying to fathom the

> > difference in male and female logic, it is a total waste of time

to try

> > and figure out why this should be so. But, this is what is facing

you,

> > in your fight to regain your health.

> > ...............................................................

> >

> > --- In , " Judith " <howdeeeyall@>

wrote:

> >

> >>

> >> The mold problem in the house seems to be relatively minor as

far as

> >> I can tell, and I do plan to get rid of most of my belongings. I

> >> believe the mold in the house is making me sick because I was

> >> sensitized by a very bad mold exposure at a job a few years ago.

I

> >> stayed in the job for months after I knew there was a mold

problem,

> >> which I regret. Security and loyalty kept me there; should have

left

> >> much sooner.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

R.E.S.P.E.C.T. as it is very inportant in all genders also can apply

to mold, reconize it for what it does, decompose. reconize it's

toxins in that it can cause serious illness and death. just because

you aren't dieing yet doesn't mean to keep pushing your luck. which

basicly means quit messing with it, if you dont think even low

amounts can harm, your wrong, if you aren'y sick enough from it yet

to realize you need to avoid it like a plague, keep messing with it

and you might get there. I garentee those that haven't been exposed

to a servere level that basicly rips your insides out can still get

sicker and believe me you dont want to get to that level where there

may be no hope of recovery. I cant believe people already suckened by

it keep messing with it. if you dont realize it let me inform you

that even at low levels if can cause specific organ damage. even if

your mucus lineings and liver are still functioning a certain amount

of mycotoxins do get in and affect your systems. theres plenty of

info. out there as most studies are on lower level,single mycotoxin

exposures and specific organ effects.

> > To understand the situation that you find yourself in, it is

advisable

> > to think of mold as being a " third gender " . Just as the first two

> > genders each have a " logic " of their own, which is

incomprehensible to

> > the other gender, so does mold have it's own " mold logic " , which

is

> > incomprehensible to all of us.

[Guest guest]

Put in some charcoal or baking soda, it removes any smell

From: Judith <howdeeeyall@...>

Subject: [] Re: Does mold odor go away when mold is killed? Or does

it persist?

Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 6:21 PM

This is not the problem. I don't smell them unless I poke my nose into

the cabinets, or sniff the chair. It's not all over.

Judith

>

> some smells get in your nose and on your cloths and hair and your

> still smelling them after the smell is gone.

>