Dr.

[Guest guest]

>

>> I might've missed 's comment about pepsin, but does pepsin cleave

>> proteins? Isn't that it's job? What I'm wondering is if it's actually

>> *pepsin* and not *HCl* that would permanently denature some of

>the exogenous

>> pancreatic proteases in the stomach?

>

>Actually you had originally said:

>...to which I responded:

<snip>

>

> " Enzymes do not EVER to my knowledge get destroyed by stomach acid.

>This denaturing is reversed by changing pH to ideal pH. "

>

>...to which responded:

>

> " No enzyme is ever destroyed by stomach acid? Is there some reason

>all enzymes are unique in this regard, since many other proteins do

>not (to my knowledge) spontaneously reassemble their globular

>structure upon being returned to their ideal pHs? Or did I totally

>miss the boat somewhere WRT the behaviour of acid-denatured proteins

>in returned-to-ideal pH? "

Yeh, I did read all that but I thought someone had mentined something about

pepsin denaturing pancreatic enzymes in the stomach, but then I'm having

trouble keeping track of who said what at this point! But I do recall you

telling that he did indeed miss the boat. I looked at a bunch of

websites recently in regards to denaturing proteins and they all mention

that pH is one thing that denatures proteins, but none of them mentioned

that the pH only denatures proteins *temporarily*. Is there no level of pH

that denatures proteins permanently? Even...say...000.1 pH? I looked this up

in " Molecular Biology of the Cell " but didn't see any mention of pH only

temporarily denaturing proteins.

>

>But yes, it seems possible that pepsin could digest important cellular

>proteins in the stomach. And HCl could do all kind of damage to them

>too, which is why the alkaline coating is there. Even temporary

>denaturation of cellular proteins by HCl could be extremely harmful to

>cells, and perhaps extreme acidic conditions could wreak other havoc

>on the cell's membranes, like disorganizing the proteins and so on.

OK, well this wasn't what I was asking but it's a good point. So perhaps

pepsin that we take in supplements could damage our stomach lining if

there's already some kind of damage to the alkaline coating? And taking HCl

between meals could potentially be harmful to an already damaged stomach

lining?

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Suze-

>I might've missed 's comment about pepsin, but does pepsin cleave

>proteins? Isn't that it's job? What I'm wondering is if it's actually

>*pepsin* and not *HCl* that would permanently denature some of the exogenous

>pancreatic proteases in the stomach?

Pepsin doesn't denature proteins, per se, but it cleaves them, which

is made easier and possible by the proteins being first denatured by HCl.

I thought sufficient acidity would permanently damage some proteins,

but according to I was completely wrong on that point.

-

[Guest guest]

On 1/11/06, Idol <Idol@...> wrote:

> Pepsin doesn't denature proteins, per se, but it cleaves them, which

> is made easier and possible by the proteins being first denatured by HCl.

Well not only that, but the pH affects the shape of pepsin. Pepsin,

like most other enzymes, are only active in certain proteases. But

you make an excellent point, that the acidity can denature the

proteins too, and that offers a great explanation of why some proteins

can survive the stomach's environment -- because proteins don't get

denatured by acid per se, but by being outside of their ideal pH, so

for proteins whose ideal pH is similar to the stomachs environemnt, it

will be much more likely that they survive the wiles of pepsin.

> I thought sufficient acidity would permanently damage some proteins,

> but according to I was completely wrong on that point.

I don't know if that's universally and completely untrue, but in

general it is untrue. I don't think every protein has been studied

and there's much we don't know so there's always a possibility that

some protein might always require a molecular chaperone to fold up

correctly no matter the environment.

Chris

--

Dioxins in Animal Foods:

A Case For Vegetarianism?

Find Out the Truth:

http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxins/dioxins.html

[Guest guest]

On 1/11/06, Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...> wrote:

> Yeh, I did read all that but I thought someone had mentined something about

> pepsin denaturing pancreatic enzymes in the stomach, but then I'm having

> trouble keeping track of who said what at this point! But I do recall you

> telling that he did indeed miss the boat. I looked at a bunch of

> websites recently in regards to denaturing proteins and they all mention

> that pH is one thing that denatures proteins, but none of them mentioned

> that the pH only denatures proteins *temporarily*. Is there no level of pH

> that denatures proteins permanently? Even...say...000.1 pH? I looked this up

> in " Molecular Biology of the Cell " but didn't see any mention of pH only

> temporarily denaturing proteins.

Protein denaturation is, in general, a temporary phenomenon, precisely

because the information for a proteins shape is contained entirely

within the primary structure of the protein -- it's amino acid

sequence. For some reason, I've heard, heat is an exception and can

permanently denature proteins, though I've never seen a good

explanation of why. _MBOTC_ discusses it in the area I cited, but

they talk about detergent experiments to draw the general conclusion

that includes pH, and it's basically the same mechanism going on.

I have no idea where a protein would encounter anything close to a

0.0001 pH, which I asume is what you meant, since 000.1 is the same as

0.1 -- ;-) -- and I don't know if anyone's tried it, but I'm just

saying the general principle is that proteins denature and renature

depending on their environment. That is the general principle. The

general principle is NOT that acidity destroys proteins, and in fact

it isn't so much acidity as it is the wrong pH for the wrong protein.

It might be generally true that most proteins denature in a low pH,

but quite obviously it's not true for pepsin, if it's ideal pH is 2,

because that means it retains its functional shape best at a very low

pH.

> OK, well this wasn't what I was asking but it's a good point. So perhaps

> pepsin that we take in supplements could damage our stomach lining if

> there's already some kind of damage to the alkaline coating? And taking HCl

> between meals could potentially be harmful to an already damaged stomach

> lining?

It sounds plausible to me. Don't know if it's been studied.

Chris

--

Dioxins in Animal Foods:

A Case For Vegetarianism?

Find Out the Truth:

http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxins/dioxins.html

[Guest guest]

Where is the best place to order pancreatin?

On Jan 8, 2006, at 8:49 AM, Idol wrote:

> Suze-

>

>> I think it's *conditionally* OK depending on the health of the gut.

>

> Actually, there's also a big difference between taking pancreatin --

> which the body is constructed to handle -- and foreign enzymes the

> body doesn't have elaborate resources to deal with.

>

>> For

>> instance, it's the main ingredient in Wobenzym

>

> I don't think I'd call pancreating the _main_ ingredient. Here's a

> list:

>

> Ingredients: Rutin (Rutoside) (150 mg) (3 H2O), Papain (180 mg) (492

> FIP-unit), Bromelain (135 mg) (675 FIP-Unit), Pancreatin (300 mg)

> (56,000 USP), Trypsin (72 mg) (2,160 FIP-unit), Chymotrypsin (3 mg)

> (900 FIP-Unit)

>

> Papain and bromelain are both extremely potent foreign proteases.

>

>> And doesn't Dr. give large doses of

>> *systemic* pancreatic enzymes to his cancer patients? I thought that

>> was his

>> major tool in fighthing cancer.

>

> The body has plenty of resources for preventing actual pancreatic

> enzymes from digesting blood and other internal tissues. A very

> compromised gut might not have all of those resources available, but

> pancreatin is definitely something the body has many mechanisms in

> place to handle, unlike plenty of other enzymes.

>

>

>

> -

Parashis

artpages@...

zine:

artpagesonline.com

portfolio:

http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html

[Guest guest]

-

>Where is the best place to order pancreatin?

I don't know... The pancreatin I use is Lipanase, from

Labs. Along with a few others, it has the maximum amount of lipase

that the market offers in pancreatin supplements, and it seems to be

the most effective and least obnoxious, though that's not saying much.

Here's a decent price, though I've never ordered from this place before.

<http://shop.store./spinelife/lpn.html>

-

[Guest guest]

New Haven, CT. Yale University is in the same town.

[Guest guest]

Yes. This is the date that was set at least a few weeks to a month ago. From

what I have heard this date is firm and Dr. J is working hard to be ready for

it. He had to change the Jan. date due to a conflict of a conference he attended

at that time. I have not heard of a formal effort to have a large showing.

There was some concern about the size of the room where the hearing is scheduled

and also if it would be good to have a lot of support shown on that first day,

or if it could send a different message to the judge and others.

I know someone close to Dr. J and should know closer to that date if they are

requesting this kind of support or asking patients to wait until a later date. I

will post anything that I hear, and hope others will too!! We all want to be

there to do whatever we can for Dr. J. I am sending a 3rd check this week to

help his legal defense, as I have heard that this has slowed down dramatically.

Without the funds, he may not be able to keep his defense team for the time he

will need them...

[ ] Dr.

Hi all...

I talked with Dr. ' office recently and they indicated that his hearing

has been rescheduled for March 23. I didn't want to take up too much of their

time asking questions, but was wondering if any of you have more updated info on

this. Are we still hoping to get people to go up there to show our support for

him and does anyone know if this date is solid or if they will try to delay it

further?

Thanks,

Patty from MD

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info !

[ ] Dr.

Hi all...

I talked with Dr. ' office recently and they indicated that his hearing

has been rescheduled for March 23. I didn't want to take up too much of their

time asking questions, but was wondering if any of you have more updated info on

this. Are we still hoping to get people to go up there to show our support for

him and does anyone know if this date is solid or if they will try to delay it

further?

Thanks,

Patty from MD

[Guest guest]

Where about in CT is Dr. ?

Chrissy

[Guest guest]

He is in downtown New Haven, CT.

Patty from MD

Re: [ ] Dr.

Where about in CT is Dr. ?

Chrissy

[Guest guest]

Where about in CT is Dr. ?

Chrissy

111 Park St

New Haven, CT 06511

203-772-1123

[Guest guest]

We had a phone consult with Dr. last week. At the end of the call I

asked him about the legal proceedings. He said the hearings will probably

last through the rest of the year because there is a long list of charges

that need to be dealt with one at a time. It is a long tedious process but

they are doing well up to this point. Funds are still needed on an ongoing

basis because of the length and complexity of the process. Words of

encouragement are welcome too.

Kelley

From: " hummingbird6666 " <wodeaz2@...>

Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 12:00 PM

Subject: [ ] Dr.

> Does anyone know what's going on with Dr.?

[Guest guest]

FROM ONE OF OUR SILENT SISTERS Rogene,Dr. is very, very expensive and from what I have heard from many, does little for the women. I went there for years, and besides a few insights I learned, nothing that helped me get better was every done. He did give me Sporanox for the fungus, but women often have to pay him close to $2500 up front. I never send anyone there. I would send them to their Naturopaths or a Holistic doctor.I don't put this out on the site, but many think was just taking advantage of the women's desperate need to get better and that he does very little for them in actual treatment. I have to agree.

[Guest guest]

$2500 up front?

I sure hope the word gets out, on doctors like this.

Someone suggested i see a neurologist north of me. I checked into him (as I do

all doctors

now) and found out he had been CONVICTED of 11 counts of insurance fraud. And

he still

has his license. So much for self-policing by medical doctors.

I also found out from talking to another attorney that this doctor charges

$5,000 up front

before he will even see a woman, and then runs many unnecessary tests for " the

settlement " (BI settlement). So a woman is talking about $10,000 to a doctor

who

probably won't do a thing to help her health.

I said forget it, and refused to see him. If I didn't qualify for a settlement

because I was

genuinely ill, I wanted no part of it. I bristle when I think of anyone

exploiting other

people.

>

> FROM ONE OF OUR SILENT SISTERS

>

> Rogene,

> Dr. is very, very expensive and from what I have heard from

> many, does little for the women. I went there for years, and besides

> a few insights I learned, nothing that helped me get better was every

> done. He did give me Sporanox for the fungus, but women often have

> to pay him close to $2500 up front. I never send anyone there. I

> would send them to their Naturopaths or a Holistic doctor.

>

> I don't put this out on the site, but many think was just

> taking advantage of the women's desperate need to get better and that

> he does very little for them in actual treatment. I have to agree.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for posting, Rogene, and thanks very much to:

> FROM ONE OF OUR SILENT SISTERS

>

> Rogene,

> Dr. is very, very expensive and from what I have heard from

> many, does little for the women. I went there for years, and besides

> a few insights I learned, nothing that helped me get better was every

> done. He did give me Sporanox for the fungus, but women often have

> to pay him close to $2500 up front. I never send anyone there. I

> would send them to their Naturopaths or a Holistic doctor.

>

> I don't put this out on the site, but many think was just

> taking advantage of the women's desperate need to get better and that

> he does very little for them in actual treatment. I have to agree.

I kinda got the picture just from the website!

[Guest guest]

You can start with your primary care doc. he will do a simple blood

test (ask for a full thyroid panel). AFter the results come back get

back on here and let us know what the doc and the results said!!!!

>

> I want to find out if I might have hypothyroid. I'm wondering what

> kinda dr. i have to see. Family dr? Ob Dr. or another kind. If it is

> another kind of dr. do i have to be referred? or does that depend on

> my insurance?

>

[Guest guest]

very interesting and it confirms what my former cardiac professor had said all

along...

nancie

Dr.

Dr. (Milwaukee cardiologist) had a really interesting post today

on his blog. I thought some of you might find it interesting...Neil

http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/<http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/>

" Tuesday, January 22, 2008

Calcium chaos

Imagine that I'm planning to build a wall of bricks. I start by

throwing cement at a pile of bricks, hoping that it forms a nice,

orderly brick wall.

Fat chance, you say.

I believe that is what appears to be emerging as the situation with

calcium supplementation.

A recent study from New Zealand reported an experience with 1,471

postmenopausal women, mean age of 74 years, who were randomized to

treatment with either calcium supplements or placebo. Calcium was

supplied as calcium citrate (Citrical) to provide 1000 mg of

(elemental) calcium per day (400 mg morning, 600 mg evening).

(Bolland MJ, Barber PA, Doughty RN et al. Vascular events in healthy

older women receiving calcium supplementation: randomised controlled

trial. Brit Med J BMJ, doi:10.1136/bmj.39440.525752.BE; published 15

January 2008)

Over 5 years, women taking calcium had twice the risk of having a

heart attack compared with women taking the placebo; women taking

calcium had a 47 percent higher risk of having any one of three

" events " (heart attack, stroke or sudden death) than women in the

placebo group.

The findings of this study run counter to what we've been telling

people all these years: Calcium supplementation, usually taken to halt

deteriorating bone health and osteoporosis, modestly reduces blood

pressure, reduces LDL and raises HDL cholesterol. At first blush, we

might thereby presume that it also reduces cardiovascular events.

This study suggests that calcium supplementation does not result in

reduction of cardiovascular events, perhaps even increases risk.

Certainly, this new finding will serve to confuse the public even more

than it is already, particularly when it comes to strategies that

modify risk for heart attack. However, this may make more sense once

we stop and think for a moment.

Calcium supplementation inarguably slows, occasionally halts, calcium

resorption from bone (through suppression of parathyroid hormone).

Calcium also accumulates as part of atherosclerotic plaque in coronary

and other arteries.

How does oral calcium know where to go--bones, not arteries or

kidneys, in addition to serving all its other crucial functions?

Keep in mind that, in many roles, calcium is passive, something that

responds to control exerted by some other factor. Vitamin D is that

factor. Vitamin D controls the absorption of calcium in the intestinal

tract (calcium aborption quadruples when vitamin D is restored to

normal), it controls whether calcium is deposited in bone or extracted

from arteries. It is the master control over the fate of calcium.

Calcium just goes along for the ride.

Bone and arterial health do indeed intersect via calcium, but not

through calcium supplementation. Instead, the control exerted by

vitamin D (and vitamin K2, another conversation) connects the

seemingly unrelated processes.

At what calcium dose threshold do the benefits stop and the adverse

effects begin? That remains unanswered, particularly in light of this

new study. However, this study calls into serious question the wisdom

of supplementing calcium at a dose of 1000 mg, particularly when taken

without normalization of vitamin D.

Calcium is therefore emerging as an important player in artery health.

But just taking calcium makes no more sense than our brick wall and

cement analogy. You might regard vitamin D as the mason that

skillfully lays down both brick and cement in a neat, orderly way.

Posted by Dr. at 3:54 PM

[Guest guest]

Sounds like you might have a class action suit ?

> [ ] Dr.

>

> It is terrible how the leading lyme physicians in the country have

> been targets of insurance industry sponsored complaints to state

> medical boards. Paying for a few attorneys already on retainer and

> their hired gun physicians is far less expensive for insurance

> companies than paying for the months of antibiotics thousands of

> chronic lyme patients would require. Burrascano, Jemsek and seemingly

> any other high profile lyme physician who attends or speaks at a lyme

> conference is at risk of a complaint. These medical boards are not

> acquainted with treating chronic lyme patients and often split the

> baby by finding some negligent care somewhere and placing the

> physician on probation and a stayed license suspension. Result: A

> shadow is cast on the doctor's expertise regardless of how preeminent

> he is. The desired chilling effect on physicians will mean even more

> long term lyme sufferers will be denied treatment. These medical board

> hearings are a terrible financial burden for these physicians to bear

> and wholly undeserved.

>

> I'm an attorney and lyme sufferer, I would like to see organizations

> like Voices of Lyme file medical board complaints against every

> physician who suggested in the past that they were depressed,

> stressed, couldn't have lyme after 3 weeks of treatment or suffering

> from fibromyalgia, and cite their CD-57 tests and positive antigen

> tests as evidence. This strategy would, at the minimum, educate these

> boards about what is and isn't " accepted medical practice " for

> treating chronic lyme patients.

>

[Guest guest]

Anyone ever heard of her? She is located in San . Any opinions would be

appreciated. If you have been treated by her and do not want to post please PM

me directly.

Many thanks