Help

[Guest guest]

My MIL has been having dreams at night. The new doctor told us to wean

her off of her Chlodiazepoxide 10 mg. in the morning and 5 mg. at bed.

As we weaned her off they had us start giving her Clonazepam 5 mg. but

to start out with half of that first. She is now on the full 5 mg. and

completely off the other med.

She is complaining about being nervous and scared and don't know why.

She wants to be put back on the nerve pill and we told her we can't.

That she needs to give this other pill a chance to work.

She told us the new pill was working because she had no more dreams.

After 2 days of being on the 5 mg. of the new pill she says she is

having the dreams again. Is this nervousness and being scared a part of

LBD?

She is also on Aricept 10 mg in the morning and another pill called

Citalopram 40 mg. in the morning for depression.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

Pam

[Guest guest]

I guess it's just that some people react differently to the same drugs...my Mom

has been on Clonazepam, and she does really well with it...much more so than

with many of the others. I have learned a lot in here about meds and reactions,

and they've helped me make some good decisions about Mom and her medications. I

am just so grateful that we found a doctor here in Tulsa who knew what he was

talking about when he diagnosed her with LBD, and who is willing to work on

meds, etc.

Jannis

" They that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up

with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; they shall walk and not

faint. " -- Isaiah 40:31

---------------------------------

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

           I am writing to you because I just read an article about

´Cognitive-Behavioural Treatment  of a Case of   Phobia Social´.

 

            First of all,I thought I suffer of social phobia but I

have saw ¨The Diagnostic For Avoidant Personality Disorder¨ and I have scored

in all the items of The Diagnostic Criteria for Avoidant Personality

Disorder¨.It is a great anxiety to me not to know what is the difference

between Social Phobia and Avoidant Personality Disorder.

Hi Jesús,

First I'm not a therapist so cannot advise you about the difference.

I do know however that many people worry about having personality disorders. I

know that many of my friends with OCD have worried about whether they really

have Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder.

I was myself obsessing about this this week and when my therapist phoned I told

him and he didn't reassure me (It would't work anyway as I would sa to myself

He's just saying that to make me feel better!) What he did say though was that I

have a personality and he added that he has one too!!!

We then discussed aspects of my personality eg conscientiousness, caring,

honesty that were admirable (to use his words) but that might also get me into

trouble.

I'd suggest that you look a your (self)diagnosis the same way. There may well be

overlap with these diagnoses but as diagnsotic criteria are debatable anyway but

maybe meant to make things easier to treat, if they are worrying you then they

are clearly not helping!

So look at the behaviours that are making your life miserable or restricting it

and deal with them regardless of what diagnosis they fit would be my suggestion.

You can get help whatever diagnosis applies and it will probably involve the

same interventions anyway.

I remember an OCD expert describing research in which psychiatrists were shown

videos (I think ) of patients and asked for a prognosis. before assessing some

of them it was suggested there might be a personality disorder. They all tended

to be very pessimiistic in their predictions of therap outcome when PDs were

suggested een though the interviews did not show any evidence of PDs.

That seems to say to me that it is a bad idea to set too much store by

diagnosis. Much more important to look at positive things you can do to deal wth

your problems and anxiety (which is universal) more effectively. ACT I think I

can say (though I'm no expert) is there to help everyone!Don't write yourself

off in other words:-)

Hope that helps,

S.

            I do not know what to do.I feel anxiety in advance,I

prefer to be alone,I prefer to be invisible and I do not talk a lot,but on the

other hand,I do not have any problem to go to the movies and to do the shopping.

 

            I am a single man.I am forty-two-year old and I am

virgin.I am motionless and I do not go to job interviews .I am a vague! I am

very coward !

 

            I never take personal risks,is like ¨keeping out of my

mind¨ I do not inspect the validity of the assumptions behind my thoughts.I do

not know why I do not confront my thoughts I stop them and let the time goes

by,I would like to confront them but I do not do it,it is like a nebula on my

mind.I am very anxious about what happen to me,but on the other hand,I avoid to

think about the stresses and strains of my life and I live like a vegetable

delaying in completing tasks.

 

            Could you please tell me how to use ACT principles in a

Personality Disorder?How to use ACT principles with my remorses? I suffer pangs

of conscience,I feel remorses of my past all the time.

 

 Any thoughts?

 Thank you so much!

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks Soozy,these are helpful words,but how to use ACT principles with my remorses?I feel bad feeling the way I do.I suffer pangs of conscience.I fell remorses of my past all the time.How to make peace with them,open up and make room for? I don´t know how to do it.

Thanks!

--- El jue, 9/12/10, S escribió:

De: S Asunto: Re: HELPPara: ACT_for_the_Public Fecha: jueves, 9 de diciembre, 2010 23:08

Hi there, I am writing to you because I just read an article about ´Cognitive-Behavioural Treatment of a Case of Phobia Social´. First of all,I thought I suffer of social phobia but I have saw ¨The Diagnostic For Avoidant Personality Disorder¨ and I have scored in all the items of The Diagnostic Criteria for Avoidant Personality Disorder¨.It is a great anxiety to me not to know what is the difference between Social Phobia and Avoidant Personality Disorder. Hi Jesús,First I'm not a therapist so cannot advise you about the

difference.I do know however that many people worry about having personality disorders. I know that many of my friends with OCD have worried about whether they really have Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder.I was myself obsessing about this this week and when my therapist phoned I told him and he didn't reassure me (It would't work anyway as I would sa to myself He's just saying that to make me feel better!) What he did say though was that I have a personality and he added that he has one too!!!We then discussed aspects of my personality eg conscientiousness, caring, honesty that were admirable (to use his words) but that might also get me into trouble.I'd suggest that you look a your (self)diagnosis the same way. There may well be overlap with these diagnoses but as diagnsotic criteria are debatable anyway but maybe meant to make things easier to treat, if they are worrying you then they are clearly not

helping!So look at the behaviours that are making your life miserable or restricting it and deal with them regardless of what diagnosis they fit would be my suggestion. You can get help whatever diagnosis applies and it will probably involve the same interventions anyway.I remember an OCD expert describing research in which psychiatrists were shown videos (I think ) of patients and asked for a prognosis. before assessing some of them it was suggested there might be a personality disorder. They all tended to be very pessimiistic in their predictions of therap outcome when PDs were suggested een though the interviews did not show any evidence of PDs.That seems to say to me that it is a bad idea to set too much store by diagnosis. Much more important to look at positive things you can do to deal wth your problems and anxiety (which is universal) more effectively. ACT I think I can say (though I'm no expert) is there to help

everyone!Don't write yourself off in other words:-)Hope that helps,S. I do not know what to do.I feel anxiety in advance,I prefer to be alone,I prefer to be invisible and I do not talk a lot,but on the other hand,I do not have any problem to go to the movies and to do the shopping. I am a single man.I am forty-two-year old and I am virgin.I am motionless and I do not go to job interviews .I am a vague! I am very coward ! I never take personal risks,is like ¨keeping out of my mind¨ I do not inspect the validity of the assumptions behind my thoughts.I do not know why I do not confront my thoughts I stop them and let the time goes by,I would like to confront them but I do not do it,it is like a

nebula on my mind.I am very anxious about what happen to me,but on the other hand,I avoid to think about the stresses and strains of my life and I live like a vegetable delaying in completing tasks. Could you please tell me how to use ACT principles in a Personality Disorder?How to use ACT principles with my remorses? I suffer pangs of conscience,I feel remorses of my past all the time. Any thoughts? Thank you so much!

[Guest guest]

Thanks Tom.I stop fighting with the anxiety,but how to stop fighting with my pangs of conscience and my remorses?Are you completely superseded about your social anxiety? I think in my case is a hopeless case!

Thanks again!--- El jue, 9/12/10, T escribió:

De: T Asunto: Re: HELPPara: ACT_for_the_Public Fecha: jueves, 9 de diciembre, 2010 18:13

hi, first of all, just take it easy and relax for a bit. You've come to this point through a life time of things, and change doesn't happen immediately even though we may wish it so.I had social anxiety for most of my adult life, until i started a program of self help reading including ACT books, and then some counselling, and then exposure, etc etc. I found that change doesn't happen right away, but having some idea of some of the steps you might wanna partake would be helpful, like a plan, or a strategy of stepping out and eventually step by step, week by week, a program towards recovery, so to speak. I found that self help reading along with exposure, along w some counselling or even just being and staying "out" there was helpful.The main thing is not to isolate yourself in any way, and to remain engaged in your life, even though there are situations which are very challenging, but to just go through with them, and maybe keep a

journal of how you felt afterwards, and once in while re-read them say months later, and then you see for yourself, the progress you have taken along the way.Just take it step by step. Hope that helps.Tom>> Hi there,> I am writing to you because I just read an article about ´Cognitive-Behavioural Treatment of a Case of Phobia Social´.> > First of all,I thought I suffer of social phobia but I have saw ¨The Diagnostic For Avoidant Personality Disorder¨ and I have scored in all the

items of The Diagnostic Criteria for Avoidant Personality Disorder¨.It is a great anxiety to me not to know what is the difference between Social Phobia and Avoidant Personality Disorder.> > I do not know what to do.I feel anxiety in advance,I prefer to be alone,I prefer to be invisible and I do not talk a lot,but on the other hand,I do not have any problem to go to the movies and to do the shopping.> > I am a single man.I am forty-two-year old and I am virgin.I am motionless and I do not go to job interviews .I am a vague! I am very coward !> > I never take personal risks,is like ¨keeping out of my mind¨ I do not inspect the validity of the assumptions behind my thoughts.I do not

know why I do not confront my thoughts I stop them and let the time goes by,I would like to confront them but I do not do it,it is like a nebula on my mind.I am very anxious about what happen to me,but on the other hand,I avoid to think about the stresses and strains of my life and I live like a vegetable delaying in completing tasks.> > Could you please tell me how to use ACT principles in a Personality Disorder?How to use ACT principles with my remorses? I suffer pangs of conscience,I feel remorses of my past all the time.> > Any thoughts?> Thank you so much!> >

[Guest guest]

Jesus

I'm attaching the ACT hexaflex to help you get the ACT big picture. View it as a slide show to get the best effect from it. Notice that ACT has six core processes with three pairs:

Show Up - Self as context and contact with the present

Let Go - Defusion and acceptance

Get Moving - Values and Committed action

You must use all six processes to accomplish psychological flexibility. Very simplistically, you want to defuse from your thoughts rather than struggle with them; accept your feelings rather than struggle with them; focus on the present, what's going onright here right now; notice what's going on right here and now; and most importantly, take committed action towards your values. Soozy's post contains many of these steps. See if you can put an ACT label on some of her suggestions.

I just heard a story on the radio that made me think of you. A man much like yourself heard a plea for help from a local homeless shelter so, after many days of isolation, got up, got dressed, and walked two miles to the shelter to answer the call for help. There he met other people who also needed help and wanted to help. He was terrified for the first few days but he kept going. Now he is in charge of the the volunteers at the shelter. He's still very anxious but he's moving ahead with his hands and his feet towards a valued life.

You can take it slower than he did but you must get moving, in spite of your thoughts and feelings, one step at a time.

Please get an ACT book if you don't have one. Let us know if you need some suggestions.

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: analyd2007@...Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 09:01:28 +0000Subject: Re: HELP

Thanks Soozy,these are helpful words,but how to use ACT principles with my remorses?I feel bad feeling the way I do.I suffer pangs of conscience.I fell remorses of my past all the time.How to make peace with them,open up and make room for? I don´t know how to do it.

Thanks!

--- El jue, 9/12/10, S escribió:

De: S Asunto: Re: HELPPara: ACT_for_the_Public Fecha: jueves, 9 de diciembre, 2010 23:08

Hi there, I am writing to you because I just read an article about ´Cognitive-Behavioural Treatment of a Case of Phobia Social´. First of all,I thought I suffer of social phobia but I have saw ¨The Diagnostic For Avoidant Personality Disorder¨ and I have scored in all the items of The Diagnostic Criteria for Avoidant Personality Disorder¨.It is a great anxiety to me not to know what is the difference between Social Phobia and Avoidant Personality Disorder. Hi Jesús,First I'm not a therapist so cannot advise you about the difference.I do know however that many people worry about having personality disorders. I know that many of my friends with OCD have worried about whether they really have Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder.I was myself obsessing about this this week and when my therapist phoned I told him and he didn't reassure me (It would't work anyway as I would sa to myself He's just saying that to make me feel better!) What he did say though was that I have a personality and he added that he has one too!!!We then discussed aspects of my personality eg conscientiousness, caring, honesty that were admirable (to use his words) but that might also get me into trouble.I'd suggest that you look a your (self)diagnosis the same way. There may well be overlap with these diagnoses but as diagnsotic criteria are debatable anyway but maybe meant to make things easier to treat, if they are worrying you then they are clearly not helping!So look at the behaviours that are making your life miserable or restricting it and deal with them regardless of what diagnosis they fit would be my suggestion. You can get help whatever diagnosis applies and it will probably involve the same interventions anyway.I remember an OCD expert describing research in which psychiatrists were shown videos (I think ) of patients and asked for a prognosis. before assessing some of them it was suggested there might be a personality disorder. They all tended to be very pessimiistic in their predictions of therap outcome when PDs were suggested een though the interviews did not show any evidence of PDs.That seems to say to me that it is a bad idea to set too much store by diagnosis. Much more important to look at positive things you can do to deal wth your problems and anxiety (which is universal) more effectively. ACT I think I can say (though I'm no expert) is there to help everyone!Don't write yourself off in other words:-)Hope that helps,S. I do not know what to do.I feel anxiety in advance,I prefer to be alone,I prefer to be invisible and I do not talk a lot,but on the other hand,I do not have any problem to go to the movies and to do the shopping. I am a single man.I am forty-two-year old and I am virgin.I am motionless and I do not go to job interviews .I am a vague! I am very coward ! I never take personal risks,is like ¨keeping out of my mind¨ I do not inspect the validity of the assumptions behind my thoughts.I do not know why I do not confront my thoughts I stop them and let the time goes by,I would like to confront them but I do not do it,it is like a nebula on my mind.I am very anxious about what happen to me,but on the other hand,I avoid to think about the stresses and strains of my life and I live like a vegetable delaying in completing tasks. Could you please tell me how to use ACT principles in a Personality Disorder?How to use ACT principles with my remorses? I suffer pangs of conscience,I feel remorses of my past all the time. Any thoughts? Thank you so much!

1 of 1 File(s)

Hexaflex.ppt

[Guest guest]

Jesus - Your pangs of conscience and your remorse are only thoughts. You have the choice of giving them power by what you do with those thoughts. You can buy into them, believe them and become them. Or you can just notice them; treat them lightly and perhaps even make some fun of them. In ACT this is called defusion. Try taking just one thought that is bothering you. Condense that thought into a word or two and then say those two words over and over for 30-40 seconds. This is similar to saying "milk, milk, milk over and over. After a few seconds the words should begin to take on a different meaning and may not be so bothersome. Do this exercise just for the fun of it. Be cusious about how it might work for you.

You said you have stopped fighting with your anxiety. What do you mean by that? Have you given up and let the anxiety hold you down? Or have you gotten busy with things that matter to you, in spite of your anxiety? Do you see the difference? ACT helps you to keep moving.

I am having a bit on an anxiety problem this evening myself. I could shut down and stay in bed with my thoughts. Or I could get up and see if I can be of some value to someone else. My anxiety is still there as I write to you, but I am in charge of my evening, not my anxiety.

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: analyd2007@...Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 09:36:51 +0000Subject: Re: Re: HELP

Thanks Tom.I stop fighting with the anxiety,but how to stop fighting with my pangs of conscience and my remorses?Are you completely superseded about your social anxiety? I think in my case is a hopeless case!

Thanks again!--- El jue, 9/12/10, T escribió:

De: T Asunto: Re: HELPPara: ACT_for_the_Public Fecha: jueves, 9 de diciembre, 2010 18:13

hi, first of all, just take it easy and relax for a bit. You've come to this point through a life time of things, and change doesn't happen immediately even though we may wish it so.I had social anxiety for most of my adult life, until i started a program of self help reading including ACT books, and then some counselling, and then exposure, etc etc. I found that change doesn't happen right away, but having some idea of some of the steps you might wanna partake would be helpful, like a plan, or a strategy of stepping out and eventually step by step, week by week, a program towards recovery, so to speak. I found that self help reading along with exposure, along w some counselling or even just being and staying "out" there was helpful.The main thing is not to isolate yourself in any way, and to remain engaged in your life, even though there are situations which are very challenging, but to just go through with them, and maybe keep a journal of how you felt afterwards, and once in while re-read them say months later, and then you see for yourself, the progress you have taken along the way.Just take it step by step. Hope that helps.Tom>> Hi there,> I am writing to you because I just read an article about ´Cognitive-Behavioural Treatment of a Case of Phobia Social´.> > First of all,I thought I suffer of social phobia but I have saw ¨The Diagnostic For Avoidant Personality Disorder¨ and I have scored in all the items of The Diagnostic Criteria for Avoidant Personality Disorder¨.It is a great anxiety to me not to know what is the difference between Social Phobia and Avoidant Personality Disorder.> > I do not know what to do.I feel anxiety in advance,I prefer to be alone,I prefer to be invisible and I do not talk a lot,but on the other hand,I do not have any problem to go to the movies and to do the shopping.> > I am a single man.I am forty-two-year old and I am virgin.I am motionless and I do not go to job interviews .I am a vague! I am very coward !> > I never take personal risks,is like ¨keeping out of my mind¨ I do not inspect the validity of the assumptions behind my thoughts.I do not know why I do not confront my thoughts I stop them and let the time goes by,I would like to confront them but I do not do it,it is like a nebula on my mind.I am very anxious about what happen to me,but on the other hand,I avoid to think about the stresses and strains of my life and I live like a vegetable delaying in completing tasks.> > Could you please tell me how to use ACT principles in a Personality Disorder?How to use ACT principles with my remorses? I suffer pangs of conscience,I feel remorses of my past all the time.> > Any thoughts?> Thank you so much!> >

[Guest guest]

>

> Jesus - Your pangs of conscience and your remorse are only

> thoughts. You have the choice of giving them power by what you

> do with those thoughts. You can buy into them, believe them

> and become them. Or you can just notice them; treat them

> lightly and perhaps even make some fun of them. In ACT this is

> called defusion.

Hi Bill,

I sometimes think that when we are really suffering hard, defusion

is not always the most helpful place to start. At least this is the

case for me when I lapse (as I so often do) and have to start over.

And I think it might also be the case for someone new to ACT who is

also very distressed.

As you've often said, we have to rely on our own experience if we

are to benefit from ACT. And in the beginning it can seem not to

make any sense to be told to make light of our distress. That

thoughts are involved does not seem to offer either an alternative

or a sense of hope.

Maybe instead we could start by asking ourselves how we typically

have dealt with anxiety or distressing thoughts, and how this has

worked for us. In other words the " creative helplessness " part of

ACT. This might start to clue us into the difference between our

actual experience and what our thoughts tell us.

And it might help to wrap values in as well, even at the beginning

- or maybe especially at the beginning. What is it we want to be

about in this life? If a magic spell could suddenly take away our

distress, what would we wish to do in this world?

And then, putting the two sides together: if magically we were

given the choice of no anxiety but also no participation in our

life, on the one hand - or anxiety coming & going but some real

participation in our life, on the other - which would we choose?

Obviously I'm not saying anything new here - just proposing a

different starting point.

- Randy

[Guest guest]

You are right Randy. Thank you. Bill

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Re: HELP

>

> Jesus - Your pangs of conscience and your remorse are only

> thoughts. You have the choice of giving them power by what you

> do with those thoughts. You can buy into them, believe them

> and become them. Or you can just notice them; treat them

> lightly and perhaps even make some fun of them. In ACT this is

> called defusion.

Hi Bill,

I sometimes think that when we are really suffering hard, defusion

is not always the most helpful place to start. At least this is the

case for me when I lapse (as I so often do) and have to start over.

And I think it might also be the case for someone new to ACT who is

also very distressed.

As you've often said, we have to rely on our own experience if we

are to benefit from ACT. And in the beginning it can seem not to

make any sense to be told to make light of our distress. That

thoughts are involved does not seem to offer either an alternative

or a sense of hope.

Maybe instead we could start by asking ourselves how we typically

have dealt with anxiety or distressing thoughts, and how this has

worked for us. In other words the " creative helplessness " part of

ACT. This might start to clue us into the difference between our

actual experience and what our thoughts tell us.

And it might help to wrap values in as well, even at the beginning

- or maybe especially at the beginning. What is it we want to be

about in this life? If a magic spell could suddenly take away our

distress, what would we wish to do in this world?

And then, putting the two sides together: if magically we were

given the choice of no anxiety but also no participation in our

life, on the one hand - or anxiety coming & going but some real

participation in our life, on the other - which would we choose?

Obviously I'm not saying anything new here  - just proposing a

different starting point.

- Randy

------------------------------------

For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsychology.org

<http://www.contextualpsychology.org>

If you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_Public, you may

unsubscribe by sending an email to

ACT_for_the_Public-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links

[Guest guest]

I tend to agree with this, Randy. It's possible to argue that no two people are in the same place vis a vis their life circumstances and understanding of ACT (and its many methods for unravelling, understanding, and hopefully accepting one's reality -- and perhaps seeing this reality for the very first time).Although I've been aware of ACT for almost a year now, and am seeing a therapist (who introduced me to ACT), when I'm in a very deep funk, for want of a better phrase, no amount of reading ACT makes any sense to me -- it may as well be double dutch. For me, the really, really essential first steps are to come to a recognition and understanding of where I am. Does what I'm experiencing have a name? Do others see and understand where I am and what I'm experiencing? Is there any, any hope for me? I guess what I'm alluding to is some kind of orientation of one's innermost self -- the hurting, pain-filled, often reviled and usually invisible (to outsiders) self in a place where others can see it, and thus give it some validity as something real, so that at last a start can be made to heal. Perhaps then, some attempt to use the methods of ACT (or anything else that can help) can be understood, applied, and hopefully be fruitful.For me, I'm just beginning to understand where I am. In a very real sense, I'm at the emotional equivalent of a toddler. I need to mature and match my emotions to the rest of my intellect (an intellect that, while capable and generally useful, is hampered by being joined to emotions that seem to have been attenuated at a much earlier stage of my life). There are many reasons for this, and those reasons, while important and needful of understanding, are not a life sentence. Whether I call the two sides of a seemingly splintered self "the thinking self" and "the observing" self is immaterial until I get an actual sense of both in real time. I'm just at the beginning of gaining such a sense.Regards,Detlef > > > > Jesus - Your pangs of conscience and your remorse are only> > thoughts. You have the choice of giving them power by what you> > do with those thoughts. You can buy into them, believe them> > and become them. Or you can just notice them; treat them> > lightly and perhaps even make some fun of them. In ACT this is> > called defusion.> > Hi Bill,> > I sometimes think that when we are really suffering hard, defusion> is not always the most helpful place to start. At least this is the> case for me when I lapse (as I so often do) and have to start over.> And I think it might also be the case for someone new to ACT who is> also very distressed.> > As you've often said, we have to rely on our own experience if we> are to benefit from ACT. And in the beginning it can seem not to> make any sense to be told to make light of our distress. That> thoughts are involved does not seem to offer either an alternative> or a sense of hope.> > Maybe instead we could start by asking ourselves how we typically> have dealt with anxiety or distressing thoughts, and how this has> worked for us. In other words the "creative helplessness" part of> ACT. This might start to clue us into the difference between our> actual experience and what our thoughts tell us.> > And it might help to wrap values in as well, even at the beginning> - or maybe especially at the beginning. What is it we want to be> about in this life? If a magic spell could suddenly take away our> distress, what would we wish to do in this world?> > And then, putting the two sides together: if magically we were> given the choice of no anxiety but also no participation in our> life, on the one hand - or anxiety coming & going but some real> participation in our life, on the other - which would we choose?> > Obviously I'm not saying anything new here - just proposing a> different starting point.> > - Randy>

[Guest guest]

Do others see and

understand where I am and what I'm experiencing? Is

there any, any hope for me? I guess what I'm

alluding to is some kind of orientation of one's

innermost self -- the hurting, pain-filled, often

reviled and usually invisible (to outsiders) self in a

place where others can see it, and thus give it some

validity as something real, so that at last a start

can be made to heal.

This really echoes a lot of

what I feel. And it reminds me also of some of what

has written about honoring human suffering, plus some of what

Steve has written on this list about the value of deeply

painful experiences that might initially seem as if they have no

value whatsoever and are just pure unrelieved hell. But I don't

think it is 'value' in the ordinary sense of the word -

certainly not comfort at any rate.

I may not be using the right words, but what I often think is

that when we are really hurting, this pain & this suffering

must first be acknowledged & honored for what it is before

anything else can (maybe) develop. Like a moment of silence, a

moment of respect.

-R.

[Guest guest]

Yes, "value" is not the meaning I'm after, either. I think the word/meaning I'm after is validation. And the validation from others as a stepping stone to self-validation. Because, in my own experience, at least, I took on the role of non-validation that I used to get from those most important in my life at that time -- my parents. For me, the painful reality was/is that as far as they were concerned, I did not exist. I learned that lesson all too well. It's exceedingly difficult to unlearn it. I'm still not sure of who "I" am.Regards,Detlef> >> > Do others see and understand where I am and what I'm experiencing? Is > > there any, /any/ hope for me? I guess what I'm alluding to is some > > kind of orientation of one's innermost self -- the hurting, > > pain-filled, often reviled and usually invisible (to outsiders) self > > in a place where others can see it, and thus give it some validity as > > something real, so that at last a start can be made to heal.> >> This really echoes a lot of what I feel. And it reminds me also of some > of what has written about honoring human suffering, plus > some of what Steve has written on this list about the value of > deeply painful experiences that might initially seem as if they have no > value whatsoever and are just pure unrelieved hell. But I don't think it > is 'value' in the ordinary sense of the word - certainly not comfort at > any rate.> > I may not be using the right words, but what I often think is that when > we are really hurting, this pain & this suffering must first be > acknowledged & honored for what it is before anything else can (maybe) > develop. Like a moment of silence, a moment of respect.> > -R.>

[Guest guest]

Yes, "value" is not

the meaning I'm after, either. I think the

word/meaning I'm after is validation. And the

validation from others as a stepping stone to self-validation.

Because, in my own experience, at least, I took on the

role of non-validation that I used to get from

those most important in my life at that time -- my

parents. For me, the painful reality was/is that as

far as they were concerned, I did not exist. I

learned that lesson all too well. It's exceedingly

difficult to unlearn it. I'm still not sure of

who "I" am.

That's it, validation! I agree.

In fact I once wrote a blog post on the theme of self-invalidation

.... the URL is here:

http://raburgess.com/anti-story/2008/02/09/invalidation-versus-presence/

-R.

[Guest guest]

Heh heh, in all likelihood I have read that at some point, and it has reverberated in my mind ever since. I might have mentioned it in a post, I don't know. For those who haven't visited your site, I can recommend it.Regards,Detlef> >> > Yes, "value" is not the meaning I'm after, either. I think the > > word/meaning I'm after is /validation/. And the validation from others > > as a stepping stone to /self-validation/. Because, in my own > > experience, at least, I took on the role of /non-validation/ that I > > used to get from those most important in my life at that time -- my > > parents. For me, the painful reality was/is that as far as they were > > concerned, /I/ did not exist. I learned that lesson all too well. It's > > exceedingly difficult to /un/learn it. I'm still not sure of who "I" am.> >> That's it, validation! I agree.> > In fact I once wrote a blog post on the theme of self-invalidation ... > the URL is here:> > http://raburgess.com/anti-story/2008/02/09/invalidation-versus-presence/> > -R.>

[Guest guest]

Yes, totally agree here, i have been thinking of validation, self validation, or

invalidation for some time now, that at the root of many of my own problems

seems to be a lack of validation, somehow my own needs were not validated. And

that deep sense of unworthiness is at the root of our mental suffering, even

after all these years.

And in order to bring ourselves out of this mess, we need to validate ourselves,

to validate our own needs as being important, to re-parent ourselves as saying

that what we want or how we feel is validated and important, and undo some of

the invalidation or parental absence that we may have grown up in.

Tom

> > >

> > > Do others see and understand where I am and what I'm experiencing?

> Is

> > > there any, /any/ hope for me? I guess what I'm alluding to is some

> > > kind of orientation of one's innermost self -- the hurting,

> > > pain-filled, often reviled and usually invisible (to outsiders) self

> > > in a place where others can see it, and thus give it some validity

> as

> > > something real, so that at last a start can be made to heal.

> > >

> > This really echoes a lot of what I feel. And it reminds me also of

> some

> > of what has written about honoring human suffering, plus

> > some of what Steve has written on this list about the value of

> > deeply painful experiences that might initially seem as if they have

> no

> > value whatsoever and are just pure unrelieved hell. But I don't think

> it

> > is 'value' in the ordinary sense of the word - certainly not comfort

> at

> > any rate.

> >

> > I may not be using the right words, but what I often think is that

> when

> > we are really hurting, this pain & this suffering must first be

> > acknowledged & honored for what it is before anything else can (maybe)

> > develop. Like a moment of silence, a moment of respect.

> >

> > -R.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Randy. The following struck a

chord. What a lovely reminder. Peace. No fighting,

battling, working on……just a moment of respectful acknowledgment of

my humanity, or your humanity if I’m listening to you, in this

moment…….

“but what I often think is that when

we are really hurting, this pain & this suffering must first be

acknowledged & honored for what it is before anything else can (maybe)

develop. Like a moment of silence, a moment of respect.”

[Guest guest]

Before I go I thought I would reply to this post from Jesus because I have social phobia and possibly even Avoidant Personality Disorder (APD). I did some research on this disorder a while back and it turns out that AVD is often straitforward to treat and has a good prognosis. People with APD really want to make friends and so they work quite hard at therapy. Also, as they are usually pretty easy get along with because they are non confrontational. So don't despair about ADP.

I also notice how you are very hard on yourself when you say you are very vague and a coward, etc. I was always pointing out to myself all the things I could not seem to do hoping that if I told myself off enough I would change and become stronger. The problem is, it doesn't work, all you end up doing is hating yourself even more by studying every fault with precision in your psyche. Now if you bash yourself with these sorts of thoughts all the time you will erode your confidence even more. If you are like me then you might have had these sorts of thoughts running through your head for years on end and then when do you eventually meet someone really nice you feel like rubbish and it makes getting to know people much harder. So defuse from these unhelpful thoughts as best you can.

One of my favourite books about meeting people is called Intimate Connections by Dr Burns. Okay, this is really written for shy lonely people not people with full blown phobia but it has some useful advice and one is to learn how to be happy on your own. Burns say's go out and do things by yourself, ie., hobbies, see films (movies), go to the theatre, or art shows, etc. Then when you do get to meet people you will come over as less stressed, less desperate, and much more relaxed which greatly assists in getting to know new people. You will also have lots of more interesting things to talk about.

Anyway, I think that rather than getting all stressed up about what is wrong in your life it is best to concentrate on things you can get right, like your hobbies, interests, and getting the work (job) situation sorted out if that needs improving, which will go a long way in getting you into better shape for socialising. And don't tell yourself off all the time.

Intimate Connections by Burns:

http://www.amazon.com/Intimate-Connections--D-Burns/dp/0451148452/ref=sr_1_1?s=books & ie=UTF8 & qid=1292078653 & sr=1-1

KV

>> Hi there,> I am writing to you because I just read an article about ´Cognitive-Behavioural Treatment of a Case of Phobia Social´.> > First of all,I thought I suffer of social phobia but I have saw ¨The Diagnostic For Avoidant Personality Disorder¨ and I have scored in all the items of The Diagnostic Criteria for Avoidant Personality Disorder¨.It is a great anxiety to me not to know what is the difference between Social Phobia and Avoidant Personality Disorder.> > I do not know what to do.I feel anxiety in advance,I prefer to be alone,I prefer to be invisible and I do not talk a lot,but on the other hand,I do not have any problem to go to the movies and to do the shopping.> > I am a single man.I am forty-two-year old and I am virgin.I am motionless and I do not go to job interviews .I am a vague! I am very coward !> > I never take personal risks,is like ¨keeping out of my mind¨ I do not inspect the validity of the assumptions behind my thoughts.I do not know why I do not confront my thoughts I stop them and let the time goes by,I would like to confront them but I do not do it,it is like a nebula on my mind.I am very anxious about what happen to me,but on the other hand,I avoid to think about the stresses and strains of my life and I live like a vegetable delaying in completing tasks.> > Could you please tell me how to use ACT principles in a Personality Disorder?How to use ACT principles with my remorses? I suffer pangs of conscience,I feel remorses of my past all the time.> > Any thoughts?> Thank you so much!> >

[Guest guest]

Hi all,I just want to second Kaivey's recommendation of the book Intimate Connections by Burns.  I think this is the best book by far on one's social life.  But moreover I would recommend any or all books authored by Burns.  Even though Burns comes from the Beck school of CBT, he is heavily influenced by the grandfather of CBT, my hero, Albert Ellis.  This is especially true on his views on self-esteem and/or self-worth.  For Ellis' view on this, see Myth of Self Esteem by Albert Ellis.

Kaivey, please stay on the list.  I enjoy your post including your anti-pharmaceutical ones.  I love debates and I love arguing, and so I find it hard to resist the urge to respond to your post and argue against you.  But I do actually agree with you mostly.  So stay and I'll join your side in any debates on this issue.  Deal?

 

Before I go I thought I would reply to this post from Jesus because I have social phobia and possibly even Avoidant Personality Disorder (APD).  I did some research on this disorder a while back and it turns out that AVD  is often straitforward  to treat and has a good prognosis. People with APD really want to make friends and so they work quite hard at therapy. Also, as they are usually pretty easy get along with because they are non confrontational. So don't despair about ADP.

I also notice how you are very hard on yourself when you say you are very vague and a coward, etc. I was always pointing out to myself all the things I could not seem to do hoping that if I told myself off enough I would change and become stronger. The problem is, it doesn't work, all you end up doing is hating yourself even more by studying every fault with precision in your psyche. Now if you bash yourself with these sorts of thoughts all the time you will erode your confidence even more. If you are like me then you might have had these sorts of thoughts running through your head for years on end and then when do you eventually meet someone really nice you feel like rubbish and it makes getting to know people much harder. So defuse from these unhelpful thoughts as best you can.

One of my favourite books about meeting people is called Intimate Connections by Dr Burns. Okay, this is really written for shy lonely people not people with full blown phobia but it has some useful advice and one is to learn  how to be happy on your own. Burns say's go out and do things by yourself, ie., hobbies, see films (movies), go to the theatre, or art shows, etc. Then when you do get to meet people you will come over as less stressed, less desperate, and much more relaxed which greatly assists in getting to know new people. You will also have lots of more interesting things to talk about.

Anyway, I think that rather than getting all stressed up about what is wrong in your life it is best to concentrate on things you can  get right, like your hobbies, interests, and getting the work (job) situation sorted out if that needs improving,  which will go a long way in getting you into better shape for socialising. And don't tell yourself off all the time.

Intimate Connections by Burns:

http://www.amazon.com/Intimate-Connections--D-Burns/dp/0451148452/ref=sr_1_1?s=books & ie=UTF8 & qid=1292078653 & sr=1-1

KV

 

 

 

>> Hi there,>            I am writing to you because I just read an article about ´Cognitive-Behavioural Treatment  of a Case of   Phobia Social´.

>  >             First of all,I thought I suffer of social phobia but I have saw ¨The Diagnostic For Avoidant Personality Disorder¨ and I have scored in all the items of The Diagnostic Criteria for Avoidant Personality Disorder¨.It is a great anxiety to me not to know what is the difference between Social Phobia and Avoidant Personality Disorder.

>  >             I do not know what to do.I feel anxiety in advance,I prefer to be alone,I prefer to be invisible and I do not talk a lot,but on the other hand,I do not have any problem to go to the movies and to do the shopping.

>  >             I am a single man.I am forty-two-year old and I am virgin.I am motionless and I do not go to job interviews .I am a vague! I am very coward !>  >             I never take personal risks,is like ¨keeping out of my mind¨ I do not inspect the validity of the assumptions behind my thoughts.I do not know why I do not confront my thoughts I stop them and let the time goes by,I would like to confront them but I do not do it,it is like a nebula on my mind.I am very anxious about what happen to me,but on the other hand,I avoid to think about the stresses and strains of my life and I live like a vegetable delaying in completing tasks.

>  >             Could you please tell me how to use ACT principles in a Personality Disorder?How to use ACT principles with my remorses? I suffer pangs of conscience,I feel remorses of my past all the time.

>  >  Any thoughts?>  Thank you so much!>  >