does a marital relationship work, if one has no trust into whatsoeever?

May 22, 2012

Hi Cheryl,

Can you please try ro reword your reference in the first paragraph

about worried about confirming his fears?

I am quite confused, maybe because he is a hard one to talk to anyways

and I have to really think over every single one of my words if he is

in that mode of " all the world hates me and is out to get me " .

yes, I do feel trapped in those times when once more I find out, that

all the calm seems to be only bottling up on his side, and in reality, he

never is calm.

He always is so sure that even I only want to hurt and harm him in the

most severe way possible.

So before I can do that, he hurts me in a preventive assault.

What he can not realize in that moment is, that every time, he hurts me

so badly, he plasters that road more towards my maybe some day really

leaving him, because I cant take the pain any more.

There is only a limited amount of ability to endure suffering. then

there is irreversible breakage.

I have tried to take my life a few years back, because of his neediness

in the past because he had demanded of me to abandon my baby sister

when she had her baby and no dad to take care of her in the beginning,

when she needed to get used to having the baby around 24/7.

And he had me thinking of a foolproof method yesterday, this is how

down I am.

I have promised myself that I will not do such a foolish thing any

more, I rather run as fast as I can away from the person that provoked

this state of desperation.

So I guess, either I will have to run or he needs to convince me, that

he will be understanding enough to not tantrum in front of me any more.

I would rather have a fnctioning communication style, and him telling

me early on if something causes anxiety, instead of holding back,

holding back and holding back some more and then exploding.

>

> -Nothing you have done or can do will change these fears. You can be

the best, most faithful partner in the world and he would still feel this way.

This is something he has to deal with, not you. If he was really working on

these issues, you may be able to help him. If he's not, nothing you can do will

help one bit. You must focus on keeping yourself safe and sane. You also are

important and should be taken care of. Also, you have no chance of helping him

in the future if you are worn down.

Yes, so what to do? I need some protection from the tantrums, and a way

to not feel like I am going to shards every time, it happens again.

> A refuge, a safe place seems like an excellent idea.

That is what I am hoping for, but I wont stab him from the back (that

is how he would perceive it, if I applied for the funds and would force

him to pretend, we are having the separation year preceding a divorce)

--

nana.

May 23, 2012

Hi Nana,

Thanks for your replies, I really hope some of this is useful to you. I can

indentify with the suicidal feelings that you mentioned. I went through a nasty

breakdown, myself, and coming from a sticky background I always blamed myself.

Only last Nov was I finally diagnosed as having Bipolar. Whether I would have

had such a bad breakdown if I wasn't in the relationship with my husband in our

Aspie ignorance?! (4 years ago and still very much in recovery, although

definitely winning the fight!)

So I can identify with the feeling that you are having of having to look after

both of your conditions and never having enough time to look after yours.

By the way, feel free to use any of my stuff to show to your hubby, as I have

done this in the past with mine and it does help get the point across.

My husband had to go through the experience of losing me, albeit for a very

short amount of time, in order to realise how important the relationship was, as

he was taking me for granted to such an extent that I was like a housemaid and

occasional sex provider, but mainly in the role of his mother or caregiver, even

though I had my own crap to deal with, and alot of crap it was too!

I went to see a counsellor who was amazing. Some counsellors will reduce their

rates or sometimes do pro bono (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_bono). They

certainly do in the UK.

Whereabouts are you based in DE? I will be moving to Koeln in July!

Sorry, bit chaotic today!!

So back to the story - he was a broken man when he was facing a single life.

Absolutely desperate to get back with me. I think the long process of my own

self reflection, counselling, and additional therapy enabled me to develop the

strength to lay down the law with him, that I had needs, and they weren't being

met at all, and that the pain he was causing me made me come to a logical

conclusion that a life alone but without all this pain would be far preferable

than staying with him, but living in the shadows. It was a scary dark time for

both of us.

Another important thing is that in order to gain trust - one must GIVE trust.

Trust doesn't just magically appear, like forgiveness, you have to work at it,

you choose to have mental discipline to manage your thoughts and feelings in

order to do this. So you choose to stop dwelling on past hurts and pain,

whether perceived or real and choose to think about better things, and look at

how blessed you are now in life, at this moment. And also look to the future.

It's damn hard, sometimes it seems impossible, but gradually the skill develops

and requires less effort. I had to learn to trust and forgive my husband for

what drove me to breaking point. In return he accepted that he had to make

concessions and start giving into the relatinship in a number of ways.

1) We both had to respect that we are very different people. We deal with stuff

in totally unique ways, so we communicated about this and laid out what be both

needed and began to work to give eachother the respect, appreciating their value

and giving them what they needed to process things.

2) I don't always like to email stuff, but it really helps Jon, so I make the

effort. (I'm dyslexic, so it's not my natural favoured communication method, but

it helps Jon, and I have developed by learning how to put my feelings and have

discussions in the written word. I do it because it helps him, and often it

helps him help me.

3) I have asked for the respect for the contributions I make into our

relationship and family life. I remind him, and continue to ask for this when I

feel he is lacking. We've aggreed this, because when he has those thoughts in

his conscious mind, he naturally wants to thank me and celebrate our

relationship, but due to the ASD he can easily get distracted.

4) I have given him trust and a role in helping me manage my own Bipolar

condition too. I have agreed that I will give him respect by accepting when he

tells me I am behaving unusualy, or going into a manic or depressed state,

rather than denying it, I respect his objective perspective and take action on

it, such as going to the doctors, and looking after myself a bit.

5) You, Nana, you and no one else is responsible for your own wellbeing. That

begins with basic self care- you must eat, you must try to sleep and guard your

own time for processing. If you don't you, and no one else will make yourself

very ill. The same goes for your partner. He needs to work on generating his

own sense of self worth. It's very hard, I had to do that myself. Feel free to

show this to him.

6) You need to separate out from eachother. Being so unhealthily entwined is

making you both deeply unhappy. You can gain space by sleeping in separate

rooms, you are still together, but having some space apart. If you don't have

space in your home, you can think about perhaps taking an hour to read or

meditate, or listen to music in your bedroom, whilst he pleases himself in the

main living area. Doing this will help you to learn to soothe yourselves.

Chill out and know that you will come back together. By doing this as a regular

act of self care, you aren't just withdrawing when things are overwhelming.

This will help your partner with his fear that if you go away, you might not

come back. I think he needs you but is clinging on so tightly, that he's

squeezing you so hard, you are empty and exhausted. I am sure that if he could

realise this, he really wouldn't want to do this to you, and wouldn't really

want to be in a situation where he is hurting you. But he may be in a situation

of great fear and pain himself and may just not know how to get out of it.

Hopefully in time, you will be able to plait your lives back together. But

don't expect it to happen quickly, deep healthy change take a good long time,

and longer when it's Aspies, because of their issues around change.

I am aware that some people don't believe that people with Aspergers can change,

however, I know that my husband can, and I know of others who do, they just need

time and support, and the occasional reminding of why they are doing this.

These are things that both Jon and I have had to do, and had to work through.

Overall, it's not easy, but it's amazing when you can collaborate and become a

team, appreciating each persons strengths and supporting each person weaknesses.

We're far from perfect, but we are now very self aware as a couple and

individuals, which helps us avoid getting into situations where we really hurt

each other. We still make mistakes and have rows, but we are able to get over

it all much quicker.

However, I would counsel that if your partner is not willing to make the effort

to change or fight for the relationship, and won't go for couples counselling,

or sit down and talk, then it may be time to think about stopping the

relationship. At least this will free you both from the pain you are causing to

each other and give you space and the opportunity to find a future more

supportive relationship in time.

In a way it's down to him - either do everything to save the marriage, and put

in 100% effort, or divorce and move on. It's blunt, but neither of you are

responsible for the other. You're responsible for yourself. It is that black

and white.

I do wish you all the best, and I know that you will ultimately choose what is

right for you. Take care of yourself - you are worth it, and you have a lot to

give and a lot of good in yourself. I am sure your partner does too.

Big Hugs,

Becky (sorry for the novel!)

> > >

> > Nana,

> > I was in a similar situation with my husband two years ago; and I too had to

make a difficult decision. It was prior to his discovery of having ASD. He was

self-medicating to a point that we had no relationship and his anger was equally

out of control! Thus, I left him; not to leave him so much but to put him in the

position of saving himself and seeking out the answers himself. As long as

> > I was in the picture, he would lame me for his anger and pot usage!

Undoubtedly, he loved me more than life, but I was not and could not be the

reason for him; only the motivation. At a long distance, I continued to give

him support. After a year and 1/2 he is back in my life; no longer

self-medicating; replacing it it group support as well as mine. It was so

difficult, and still is at times, but nothing like before! We are removed from

the family embers who were not supportive and caused more harm than good, that

was necessary for him to grow. Our marriage took a beating, but we survived it,

a distance apart, but together.

> > Be sure that you do all that you can before taking such a drastic move to

the " D " word, such as seek out support groups in your area. Never put yourself

in a position of regret!

>

> Yes, support and distance can go together, if only he would be able to

> see this.

>

> I dont want to abandon him.

> I really want to have the chance to heal from my own biggie health

> scare from 2008, which I did not yet have the chance to.

> On the contrary, fighting off a big infection in hospital he was the

> one who was at wits end and wanted to end his life, I took some time to

> leave hospital between two treatments to talk with him at home and do

> some support talk, so he was able to go on.

>

> It seems, I have no time for my own coping as long as he does not trust

> me enough to let me go on a " longer leash " so to say.

>

> I feel very suffocated by his needs and anxieties.

> They are real and very scary, and still, I cant really help him with

> them.

> I feel like whenever I need his support, it is too much and whenever he

> needs mine, I dont give the kind he needs.

> This makes it hard to be in an open mindset sometimes, because I feel

> squeezed dry at times of need (when I am not so well myself)

>

> It is a biggie for him, if he had one bad night.

> I have more bad than good nights since my three brain surgeries in

> three following months in 2008.

>

> I guess, he cant imagine how draining this alone is to me.

> There is not enough breath for me to keep telling him, how few my

> " spoons " are, that I can spend.

>

> And I have reserved a few of my prescious spoons for him and his needs

> besides all the things that need doing every day.

> I am so stressed since November last year, that I have gained weight

> alone from being so stressed, not from overeating.

>

> --

> nana.

>

May 24, 2012

> -P>S> In his world, it is hard to trust when people always treat you like a

freak!

Well as an Aspie myself, I've found a way of dealing with that:

Now that I've been diagnosed, I have official confirmation that I *am*

something of a freak, and that's OK because I am what I am, and

there's no point me trying to be anything different. So I'm proud that

I'm different, and if someone calls me a freak, that's just fine

because I'm perfectly content to be different. I'm glad I'm not a

sheep that follows what all the others do. In fact I'd be more upset

with them calling me a sheep than them calling me a freak.

So I'd say it's more down to positive thinking than anything else. If a

situation is inevitable and simply can't be changed, you have to make

the most of it, enjoy it, because there's absolutely no point and a

total waste of energy trying to fight against it.

May 24, 2012

Hi ,

I'm all for self acceptance though I think that both spectrum and non spectrum

folks should try to get along with one another and sometimes that means giving a

little (or maybe even a lot.) No one can (or should) reinvent themselves as

someone else, but if there is something we or others do that is going to make

things go better, we should try to meet others at least half way. Think of

cultural differences. You live overseas now and I am sure you have found it

necessary to adapt to local custom in some ways or I think life would be quite

unlivable, wouldn't it? So it is for AS and NS folks too

- Helen

>

> > -P>S> In his world, it is hard to trust when people always treat you like

a freak!

>

> Well as an Aspie myself, I've found a way of dealing with that:

>

> Now that I've been diagnosed, I have official confirmation that I *am*

> something of a freak, and that's OK because I am what I am, and

> there's no point me trying to be anything different. So I'm proud that

> I'm different, and if someone calls me a freak, that's just fine

> because I'm perfectly content to be different. I'm glad I'm not a

> sheep that follows what all the others do. In fact I'd be more upset

> with them calling me a sheep than them calling me a freak.

>

> So I'd say it's more down to positive thinking than anything else. If a

> situation is inevitable and simply can't be changed, you have to make

> the most of it, enjoy it, because there's absolutely no point and a

> total waste of energy trying to fight against it.

>

May 24, 2012

Helen:

I was just talking about this with my mother but in a different context. She was

raised by parents that lived through the Great depression and still believes one

has to pull themselves up by the bootstraps because that it was her parents did

and instilled in her and she in turn instilled it in us. She also is a rigid

thinker on assimilation. We were having a heated discussion on culture and she

said, " : When you visit Japan, you have to respect their culture or you

will never fit in. " To her it is that simple. I think differently as I believe

you can maintain your culture and still assimilate in. I want to be a counselor

and culture is a BIG thing right now in the field. Our environment, culture,

experiences, attachments, etc., have helped to shape us into the adults we are

today. Or at least that is part of " my " belief systems and may not be true for

others. I believe today's world is different than the one I grew up in. My

mother believes it is the same and the American dream is alive and well. I see

the economy differently.

Different generations, different belief systems. My kids grew up in a different

generation and their belief system is colored by technology and social networks.

I think ultimately it is up to us. Some same, " it is not the cards you are

dealt, but how U play the hand. " This is just my humble opinion and how I have

learned to live life that works for me. This is what going back to school in

late life has done for me. It forces you to be a critical thinker and look at

life through a different lens. I raised my kids this way. Not everyone thinks

like you and that is the beauty of the world. BUT, you have to fit in to get

along and you can still be YOU! A recent professor wrote me a letter of

recommendation for a scholarship. I just got confirmation I was awarded the

scholarship for next year. In it was a sentence that said, " is a very

unique thinker and the world could use more of her. " lol at first I was taken

back as she saw my thought process as different, but understood the context. I

think the world is constantly changing and we have to with the change with it

whether it is comfortable or not. I hate change, but the only consistent factor

in life is change. Folks with AS do not have a monopoly on a resistance to

change. It is hard, it is leaving a role we are comfortable with no matter of

the negative impacts is has on us. When we change, everyone around us is forced

to shift roles. That is the power of “change”.

Just me.

Hi ,

I'm all for self acceptance though I think that both spectrum and non spectrum

folks should try to get along with one another and sometimes that means giving a

little (or maybe even a lot.) No one can (or should) reinvent themselves as

someone else, but if there is something we or others do that is going to make

things go better, we should try to meet others at least half way. Think of

cultural differences. You live overseas now and I am sure you have found it

necessary to adapt to local custom in some ways or I think life would be quite

unlivable, wouldn't it? So it is for AS and NS folks too

- Helen

May 24, 2012

Hi ,

That is a great example. And congratulations (many times over!) on your

achievements in school. To return to school in mid-life, after a divorce and

begin a new life is a great example and an encouragement to us all.

You can still maintain your identity and be " you " but when you are aware of

cultural differences you would not *knowingly* say or do something that is taboo

in another culture. Certainly there are enough opportunities to *unknowingly*

commit faux pas without going out of your way to provoke to make a point, LOL.

is a sensitive and respectful member of this list and by the way , I

disagree, I don't think you are a " freak! " I'm sure that has adapted very

well in his environment, and I like how he describes living a more

environmentally sustainable way of life there.

I'll give an example of NOT being culturally sensitive. Years ago I was

chaperoning a school visit to a religious farming colony. They are a semi closed

community and they wear the traditional clothing and maintain the religious and

cultural practices of their forefathers who emigrated here to escape religious

persecution. However, they do embrace modern technology - their farms are state

of the art - and they have computers. It's kind of cute watching them texting on

their cell phones when they are out shopping in the community. They welcome

visitors who they educate about their farming methods, cultural practices, etc.

There was another mom chaperoning the school tour who absolutely mortified us

with some of the questions she was asking the host of the tour. The mom might

have been trying to make some kind of point about what she perceived to be a

rather rigid and oppressive lifestyle. But there is a time and place for that

sort of thing and this wasn't it. This was in front of a bunch of elementary

school children on a cultural school tour! The woman's attack served no purpose

- educational or otherwise - other than to make those of us old enough to be

embarrassed, deeply ashamed of her behavior.

AS you say, it's not only AS who have resistance to change, and also it's

certainly not only AS who have " mind blindness " at times, LOL

- Helen

>

> Helen:

>

> I was just talking about this with my mother but in a different context. She

was raised by parents that lived through the Great depression and still believes

one has to pull themselves up by the bootstraps because that it was her parents

did and instilled in her and she in turn instilled it in us. She also is a rigid