Group Question: MS and Mold

[Guest guest]

Does anyone have any documentation about MS and Mold? I have a

neighbor that is having numerous amount of difficulties with muscles,

walking, rashes, and I think some foot drop. She has lupus, and has

had surgery for a brain tumor. Bleeding and has had a hysterectomy

(hysterectomy was years ago). Just to give you all a little

background on her. She is afraid to tell her doctors about the mold

here, and afraid of the landlord. I keep telling her, if the landlord

was going to do anything, he would of thrown my ass out by now due to

my proof medically and from the mycologist testing results. I have

told her legally the landlord can not throw any of us out, because

this is a health issue with the molds here. We pay our rent, we are

otherwise great tenants except for some of us (not her yet) bringing

the mold issues to their attention (long story here).

As many of you know, the building in which I live has a numerous

amount of mold ie aspergillus, pencillium, mucor, rizopus, etc etc

etc. We have numerous amount of water leaks all the time and they

leave the walls open for days, sometimes a couple of weeks until they

get the painters in to put new wall board up (leaving the moldy

insulation and the inside of the walls open for all of us to breath in

the spores). I need help with this type of documentation on MS and

mold. This week alone, my floor had to water leaks in my hallway, I

have been extermely sick due to the walls being open and the mold. I

have been sick from this mold (medically proven) since 2006. This is

on a continuous thing here. Some tenants have mold coming out of

their walls, and we know that there are numerous molds in the HVAC

system in this nine story building. Sorry for this post being so

long, but I wanted to give some of you a little background on this

here. I would appreciate any help with documentation on MS and mold.

Thanks so much, Darlene

[Guest guest]

Do you live in a city with a rent stabilization or just cause eviction law?

For people with chronic illnesses, sometimes, there just arent any

good choices..

Sick people are sometimes (not always) in a VERY difficult position

because bluntly, moving is almost impossible for them, as is staying..

Nobody wants to

rent to sick people, even if they have an income and have always been

a good tenant and paid rent on time.

There are so many issues. Well people often don't have any idea just

how precarious the

lives of the chronically ill become. Granted, living in a truly moldy

building can be really dangerous, but

being homless on the streets of a city is just as terrifying, if not

more so. Landlords also often draw out

the time they take doing remediations (or " capital improvements " as

they usually put it) with the aim of having the tenants being forced

to find other homes while the building is uninhabitable. Hotels can be

really expensive, in some cities, any safe

hotel is $100 a night or more.. People on fixed incomes have no budget

for this or for storing all their things while a building sits,

sometimes with nothing being done - for months.. The financial

incentive to replace old hypersensitized tenants with new, still well

tenants who still have good jobs is often huge..

The problem when you are sick in cities, and its a real one, is that

you will never be able to rent another apartment when you are

unemployed or ill, or even, until you have reached a certain implicit

level of financial security that sick people rarely have these

days..So unless you are wealthy, and have a huge amount of money in

the bank and can clearly afford many times over the monthly rent for

another place of the same size and safety level (which varies from

neighborhood to neighborhood, often from block to block and even from

building to building)

To move, to actually rent another apartment, requires paying the NEW

going rate which- if you have been in a rent stabilized apartment for

a while, is often two times or more what you were paying. Some

landlords are often so eager to replace low-rent tenants they will do

almost anything, even drag their feet on the always vague " work " .

(they don't ever like to admit there was any problem, but they are

often admant that the undefined " work " may take many months to

complete and requires a tenant removing every single thing they own

from the apartment..

On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 9:04 AM, darlenesb2000 <darlenesb2000@...> wrote:

> Does anyone have any documentation about MS and Mold? I have a

> neighbor that is having numerous amount of difficulties with muscles,

> walking, rashes, and I think some foot drop. She has lupus, and has

> had surgery for a brain tumor. Bleeding and has had a hysterectomy

> (hysterectomy was years ago). Just to give you all a little

> background on her. She is afraid to tell her doctors about the mold

> here, and afraid of the landlord. I keep telling her, if the landlord

> was going to do anything, he would of thrown my ass out by now due to

> my proof medically and from the mycologist testing results. I have

> told her legally the landlord can not throw any of us out, because

> this is a health issue with the molds here. We pay our rent, we are

> otherwise great tenants except for some of us (not her yet) bringing

> the mold issues to their attention (long story here).

>

> As many of you know, the building in which I live has a numerous

> amount of mold ie aspergillus, pencillium, mucor, rizopus, etc etc

> etc. We have numerous amount of water leaks all the time and they

> leave the walls open for days, sometimes a couple of weeks until they

> get the painters in to put new wall board up (leaving the moldy

> insulation and the inside of the walls open for all of us to breath in

> the spores). I need help with this type of documentation on MS and

> mold. This week alone, my floor had to water leaks in my hallway, I

> have been extermely sick due to the walls being open and the mold. I

> have been sick from this mold (medically proven) since 2006. This is

> on a continuous thing here. Some tenants have mold coming out of

> their walls, and we know that there are numerous molds in the HVAC

> system in this nine story building. Sorry for this post being so

> long, but I wanted to give some of you a little background on this

> here. I would appreciate any help with documentation on MS and mold.

> Thanks so much, Darlene

>

>

[Guest guest]

I just read where Mold is thought to be the cause of MS, ALS,

Dementia, Foot Drop...and a whole string of etc.'s Do a search for MS

and Mold or was it Fungi or Fungus...one of those. I have too many

windows open right now to do a search... and I can't close them right

now...lol

>

> Does anyone have any documentation about MS and Mold? I

[Guest guest]

If i am not mistaken it was mentioned to me that Cladasporium or Chatomium

(misspelled) are linked to MS. I had both in my house and am suffering from

some

neurological problems, including the ability to walk, etc.

[Guest guest]

>I am sorry if this sounds rude-but what you need help with is finding

a new place to live-why are you staying in a toxic environment-from

readings on this site you must know that this exposure can ruin your

health permenantly-stop worrying about your neighbors health problems-

or the legal issues and get out-a friend of mine who was an

environmental mold expert untill a bad mold hit put him in a wheelchair

used to have the same problems with his clients-he finally settled on

this speech to get them motivated- " If you car with your family was

stalled on a RR track with a train coming-would you sit there and call

the police on your phone? or the RR co.? or your lawyer about suing

them?, No you would all jump out of the car. This is an exact situation-

leave the house now, immediatly. " Enough said.

, one whos life was ruined by mold.

> Does anyone have any documentation about MS and Mold? I have a

> neighbor that is having numerous amount of difficulties with muscles,

[Guest guest]

Hi Darlene,

About 15 years before I developed toxic mold reactions, I had a long-

term girlfriend who lived in an apartment that reeked from mold. I

couldn't enter her apartment without getting an allergic and

asthmatic reaction. About six years into our relationship, we moved

into a different apartment, together. That's when I first noticed

that she had developed many new symptoms, including " foot drop " . She

was never given a medical diagnosis, at that time. Many years later,

after our relationship, she was finally diagnosed as having MS.

Here is an extensive article about the probable MS-Mold link, which,

in hind-sight, I am in full agreement with, based on my personal

experience with my girlfriend. She was a wonderful woman, before the

mental effects of MS destroyed her life, and our relationship.

...............................................

http://www.mercola.com/2003/jul/19/multiple_sclerosis.htm

Multiple Sclerosis: A Chronic Mycotoxicosis?

by Holland, MD

(Dr. Dave Holland is the co-author, with Doug Kaufmann, of the new

book, " The Fungus Link, Volume 2.

" Inside this follow-up to their book " The Fungus Link, " you'll not

only learn about the dangers of antibiotics. You'll also learn about

the ins and outs of natural and prescriptive antifungals.

Additionally, Doug and Dave share with you the role fungi and their

mycotoxins play in what are unfortunately everyday diseases such as

prostatitis, ear-nose-throat disorders, weight problems (including

obesity and anorexia), autoimmune diseases, hormonal disorders,

neurologic diseases, hair loss, and eye problems.

To order either of these books, call 972-772-0990, M-F 8:00 AM to

5:00 PM Central, or go to causesandcures.com.)

The National Multiple Sclerosis Society, one of several non-profit

organizations dealing with Multiple Sclerosis (MS) research funding

and patient assistance, raised almost $74 million dollars in the

fiscal year 2001. It spent $64 million, of which $54.8 million went

toward program expenses, and $6.6 million was directed at fundraising

efforts. Two million goes toward administrative costs. The CEO alone

makes over $300,000. (1)

Still, in the 57 years of the society's existence, no cause for MS

has been assigned. I use the word " assigned " and not " found, " because

I believe a cause has already been found. In our book, " The Fungus

Link, Volume 2, " Doug Kaufmann and I discuss the role of fungal

toxins, called mycotoxins, in the etiology of MS. The evidence

brought forth by various scientists over the years and compiled in a

small section of this book is quite compelling. It is so compelling

that, at this point, I believe scientists will be forced into a

position of proving that mycotoxins are NOT the cause of MS, a task

at which, I believe, they shall not succeed.

MS is characterized by destruction of the protective sheath- called

the myelin sheath- around nerves in the brain and the spinal cord. As

a result, the transmission of nerve impulses to other nerves,

muscles, and vital organs is interrupted. This impaired nerve

function translates into symptoms such as difficulty in walking,

abnormal, " pins and needles " sensations throughout the body; pain and

loss of vision due to inflammation of the optic nerve, tremors,

incoordination, paralysis, and impaired thinking and memory (2). In

addition, muscle wasting, bladder dysfunction, fatigue, osteoporosis,

and a host of other problems may develop either directly or

indirectly due to this nerve damage.

Although there is a genetic predisposition toward MS, as proven in

studies of twins, only a third of those that are genetically

susceptible will get MS, indicating there is still an outside factor

involved (3). MS is more common in those born and raised above the

37th parallel (a line extending from Newport News, VA to Santa Cruz,

CA); however, if a person moves to an area of low risk (i.e. below

the 40th parallel) prior to adolescence, they assume the lower risk

of their new location. These last points support the idea of an

environmental exposure link to the disease.

If outside causes are to blame, then Oppenheim, an early 1900's

researcher, was the closest in his assertion that MS is caused by an

environmental toxin. Other researchers of his day thought that there

was a defect in the blood vessels or in the glial tissues. Pierre

Marie, in the late 1800's, felt that MS was caused by an infectious

agent. However, despite all of the " infection " theories that have

been tested over the past 150 plus years, not one- whether bacteria,

virus, Chlamydia or scrapie-like agent- has proven to be the culprit.

So, let's apply what we already know about MS and see if we truly

know the cause of MS or not. Mycotoxins are chemicals made by fungi.

They are found in grains that have been contaminated with fungi and

mold. Some mycotoxins are used for medicinal purposes. Antibiotics,

such as penicillin and the cephalosporin drugs, are fungal

metabolites- they are mycotoxins. Alcohol is a mycotoxin. Aflatoxin,

the most carcinogenic substance on earth, is a mycotoxin. The most

commonly contaminated crops are peanuts, corn, and wheat.

Often, other foods such as barley, apples, sorghum and rye can be

contaminated as well. Some mycotoxins are produced in our body by the

yeast in our intestines or vaginal tract. In one study, 3 women

severely symptomatic for vaginal candidiasis were found to have

vaginal fluid samples with significant levels of a mycotoxin called

gliotoxin (4). From our environment, we can be exposed to mycotoxins

through countless routes: ingestion, inhalation, skin contact, etc.

The question is, once inside the body, can these mycotoxins damage

nerves? Let's answer that question now.

We already know that, in MS, there is a loss of molecules called

sphingolipids from the white matter in the central nervous system

(5). What is not well known is the fact that mycotoxins can actually

disrupt sphingolipid biosynthesis (6). Specifically, gliotoxin, as we

mentioned above, on a slightly larger scale can induce nerve cell

death (apoptosis).

Gliotoxin is a heat stable chemical made by Aspergillus, Candida, and

other species of fungi. (7). Not coincidentally, scientists have

recovered a heat stable toxin from the cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) of

MS patients. In this particular study, they took the CSF from MS

patients, heat-treated it to destroy any infectious germs, and then

exposed it to nerve cells in a laboratory culture. What happened? The

nerve cells died! They called this heat-stable toxin " gliotoxin. "

The source of gliotoxin appears to be, again, primarily from the

yeast and fungi within the human body. As such, gliotoxin is less

important as an agricultural scourge than are other mycotoxins such

as fumonisins, made by Fusarium and Aspergillus fungi, and the

penetrim D toxin made by Penicillium crustosum. Fumonisins are a

group of mycotoxins that happen to be neurotoxic as well as

carcinogenic. They are " universally present in corn and corn-based

products. " (8). Penitrem mycotoxins are found in things such as moldy

apple products. Penetrem D can cause tremors, convulsions, limb

weakness, and ataxis (unsteady gait), " not unlike the symptoms

observed in MS. " (9).

As there are different classes of MS (chronic progressive, relapsing-

remitting, etc.) it may very well be that the different classes are

being caused by different classes of mycotoxins. In addition, the

regional differences in the prevalence of MS might be explained by

the particular agricultural products that dominate the most affected

areas. For example, the part of America that lies above the 37th

parallel also happens to encompass the cornbelt. Remember that corn

is universally contaminated with mycotoxins (7). This area is also

represented by much of the wheat belt. Is this just a coincidence, or

good evidence of an environmental exposure risk factor?

Let's talk about some of the latest treatments for MS. Dr. Mercola

has already stated in a previous article that most MS drugs are a

waste of money (10). The new buzz on the town, however, is that

statin drugs (cholesterol-lowering drugs) have proven effective in

slowing the progression of MS (11-13). Their effectiveness should not

surprise us, in light of the fungal/mycotoxin theory, when we also

learn that statin drugs are antifungal (14).

Dr. Mercola has also mentioned in previous articles that Vitamin D as

well as plain old sunlight can reduce mortality from and positively

influence the immune system in MS (15,16). Other researchers have

explained that the reason why these work is, once again, Vitamin D,

whether taken in the form of a cod liver oil supplement or made

naturally by our body from sunlight exposure, is anti-mycotoxin (14).

Finally, let's talk about diet again. Last year a German researcher

claimed that eating smoked sausage in childhood was responsible for

causing multiple sclerosis later in life. (16). Dr. A.V. Costantini,

retired head of the World Health Organization's collaborating center

for mycotoxins in food, helps us out here by explaining that smoked

and aged meats are often contaminated with mycotoxins (18). Thus the

cause of MS, according to these and other researchers, is right in

our food.

In another of Dr. Mercola's articles, he talked about how starving

mice with an MS-like condition resulted in fewer symptoms and

decreased progression of the illness (19). Why does starvation work?

In our humbled opinion, it could be as simple as: the fewer foods

taken in, the fewer mycotoxins that enter the body. You see, if we

are following the standard, food pyramid, grain based American diet,

we are consuming on average from 0.15 to 0.5mg of aflatoxin per day

(8). Aflatoxin is the only regulated mycotoxin in America, so what

level of exposure we have to the other, known mycotoxins in our diet

that we've discussed is a guess, at best. So starvation diets not

only deprive us of calories. They also " deprive " us of disease-

causing, carcinogenic mycotoxins.

If indeed mycotoxins cause MS, then there are a number of steps one

must take to minimize exposure to fungi and their mycotoxins. We just

finished talking about diet. Since mycotoxins are commonly found in

grain foods (7,8), then it would be wise to minimize grains in our

diet. Doug Kaufmann outlines his Initial Phase diet in our book, The

Fungus Link, Volume 2. As well, Dr. Mercola has published his book,

The No-Grain Diet, which offers equally valuable information.

Secondly, we should minimize our exposure to antibiotics.

Antibiotics are, for the most part, derived from fungi and are

therefore classified as mycotoxins. If we've taken lots of

antibiotics in the past, we should attempt to correct the damage done

by these by taking a good probiotic supplement. Lastly, if we have

any obvious signs of fungal infection in our body, and to us, simply

having MS might qualify as an obvious sign, it might behoove us to

take natural or prescriptive antifungals for a period of time.

Remember that gliotoxin can be made by fungi and yeast that are

already in the body, not necessarily by fungi that reside in

contaminated foods.

Doug and I hope that we've given you some insight to

this " mysterious " disease of MS. It seems, according to the research

we've pointed to, that the cause for this disease is right before our

eyes. Now, we just need to apply this knowledge. Future research

should be directed at treating the disease as if it were caused by

fungi and their devastating mycotoxins.

References:

1. The Charity Navigator. Charitynavigator.org. July 2003

2. Nationalmssociety.org. Sept. 2002

3. Murray, J. Infection as a cause of multiple sclerosis:

theories abound because no one knows the answer yet. Editorials.

British Medical Journal. Vol 325:1128. 16 Nov 2002

4. Shah, D.T, et al. In situ mycotoxin production by Candida

albicans in women with vaginitis. Gynecol. Obstet. Invest. 1995;39

(1):67-9

5. Harper. Review of Physiological Chemistry, 16th ed. 1977

6. -Hjelle. PKD: an unrecognized emerging infectious

disease? Emerging infectious diseases. 3(2):113-127. 1997. CDC

7. Council for Agricultural Science and Technology. Mycotoxins:

Risks in Plant, Animal, and Human Systems. Task Force Report 139. Jan

2003. Ames, IA

8. Etzel, R. Mycotoxins. Journal of the American Medical

Association. 287(4): 425-427. Jan 23/30, 2002.

9. http://www.iserloh.com/penitrem.html. July 2003

10. http://www.mercola.com/2003/mar/5/ms_drugs.htm

11. Bouchez, C. Cholesterol drug may offer hope for MS patients.

HealthScoutNews, April 2003;

12. Edelson, E. Cholesterol drugs may treat multiple sclerosis.

HealthScoutNews. Oct. 7, 2002,

13. Verrengia, J. Statin drugs show M.S. promise. Associated

press. News. Nov 7, 2002

14. Costantini, A.V. Fungalbionics Series: Etiology and

Prevention of Atherosclerosis. Johann Freidrich Oberlin Verlag.

Freiburg, Germany. 1998/99

15. http://www.mercola.com/2000/may/28/sunlight_m_s.htm

16. http://www.mercola.com/2001/apr/25/vitamin_d.htm

17. , D. German researcher claims smoked sausage linked to

multiple sclerosis. Meatingplace.com. Sept. 2002

18. Costantini, A., et al. Prevention of Breast Cancer: Hope at

Last. Fungalbionic series. Freiburg, Germany. 1998

19. http://www.mercola.com/2003/feb/12/starvation_diet.htm

.................................................

>

> Does anyone have any documentation about MS and Mold? I have a

> neighbor that is having numerous amount of difficulties with

muscles,

> walking, rashes, and I think some foot drop.

[Guest guest]

Semco,

Is there a source you might know of for this info?

Thanks,

Sam

> If i am not mistaken it was mentioned to me that

> Cladasporium or Chatomium

> (misspelled) are linked to MS.

[Guest guest]

and if thats not enough add it to the VOC'S and man made chemicals

being off gassed that go along with exposures in WDB as theres no

dought some of these chemicals can also cause demyelination, immune

and matabolism problems,ect, and theres also quite a bit of research

linking toxins/chemicals to MS.

[Guest guest]

Jill,

I don't scare easy. I do not have any vulnerability and they know it.  I haven't

given up thus far and I do not plan on it.  What is right is right.  Thank you

for your input, much appreciated.  Darlene

[Guest guest]

,  I can not leave here due to many circumstances.  I don't take any

offense in what your saying, but there are too many sick and innocent people

here for me to walk out on them all.  I am not in this situation alone.  Darlene

[Guest guest]

Well then, take them to court saying you have a mold infestation and

they did not remediate it properly and start court proceedings. The

cost of litigation is such that you can negotiate a good buyout. They

don't want to drag it out for years. Take that $ and get thee to a

healthy place. It is not an uncommon strategy.

>

> Jill,

>

> I don't scare easy. I do not have any vulnerability and they know

it.  I haven't given up thus far and I do not plan on it.  What is

right is right.  Thank you for your input, much appreciated.  Darlene

>

[Guest guest]

TOXIC NEUROPATHY

http://www.emedicine.com/neuro/TOPIC378.HTM

>

> and if thats not enough add it to the VOC'S and man made chemicals

> being off gassed that go along with exposures in WDB as theres no

> dought some of these chemicals can also cause demyelination, immune

> and matabolism problems,ect, and theres also quite a bit of research

> linking toxins/chemicals to MS.

>

[Guest guest]

Take the hypothetical situation of a couple in their 50s living in a

rent-controlled apartment in a moldy building in SF, both

have jobs in local businesses and both have worked at their jobs for

20-30 years and are only a few years away from a pension. Their

*combined* pretax income is $75k annually. (well below average for the

inner Bay Area) They have been living on borroed time but they don't

realize it. They pay $1200 a month for a two bedroom apartment with

parking, a comparable apartment wthin the city would cost $2200 a

month, plus $200 for a parking space to rent (but their income isn't

high enough so that they would get the apartment over the competition,

they apply for apartment after apartment and are rejected again and

again.)

They realize that they are going to have to move somewhere where they

will need two cars. Where there is little public transporation. Or

live in a bad area of Oakland or Richmond where gang killings are

daily occurrances.

Not considering the parking space, the difference between their old,

protected rent and the going rate is $12,000 a year. But the situation

is complicated by the impossibility of their being rented an

apartment, even if they were willing to pay almost twice what they

were paying, or move into a studio or small one bedroom, still at a

much higher rent, and in a bad neighborhood. They want to stay in

" their " apartment.

This is actually an unusually rosy scenario. Only responsible

landlords offer buyouts because they know they have the upper hand.

Rent-stabilized tenants, for that reason, especially sick ones, are

terrified of any disruption that could give their landlord a way to

force them out or raise rents beyond what they can afford. Not to

criticize them, some don't report bad situations - that require

repairs - for that very understandable reason. Other tenants in the

building may report a problem, but in order for the problem to be

truly fixed, both tenants and landlords need to cooperate to get a

" sick " building " well " . Given the huge financial incentive they have

to get old tenants out and new tenants in at higher rents, and the

difficulty of tenants to find other places, that has the potential to

become a really bad situation.

Lets say that in this case that despite the mold, there has been a

relatively good relationship between landlord and tenant, the landlord

realizes that the tenants have been made ill, but he/she - and they -

do not realize how ill, or that that the cost to them of mold

hypersensitivity is multifaceted and terrible. Or that they will

eventually realize they have to throw out a great amount of what they

own because of this.

Neither do the tenants, but they reel in shock when they start looking

for another place to live and realize that they will have to move to

the far reaches of the Bay Area to find an apartment that is safe,

that they can afford, and which will rent to them considering how

little they make. The total buyout amount offered is *$30,000*

Total cost to them of accepting the buyout - when you consider that

they would have to give up their jobs- and pensions or try to find an

apartment that doesn't exist.. is astronomical..at least hundreds of

thousands of dollars..

Total cost to them of staying if their landlord does not remediate

COMPLETELY is also astronomical..to their health..

If landlord is a good landlord and remediates, then they will still

have to rent a hotel room (if they rent another apartment in SF, they

lose rent control) Cost - $100-150 / night.

Time between beginning and end of remediation.. unknown..

Whether remediation will improve or worsten the situation.. impossible

to say without knowng much more..

In the Bay Area landlords and tenants are trapped into this dance..

Even good landlords and tenants are constrained greatly in what they

can and cant do to solve problems..

There are big loopholes in the laws that protect tenants..

Many (most, I am sure) tenants are responsible, but there are also bad apples..

Like anywhere, landlords can also be hurt tremendously by even just

one really bad tenant..

On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 1:14 PM, jill1313 <jenbooks13@...> wrote:

> All too true. Although if you have a legitimate (or had a legitimate)

> mold case, you can take your landlord to court and force them to buy

> you out. The cost of litigation is high for them, and if you have a

> regulated low rent apartment, they stand to gain by buying you out.

> OTOH if you are broke I guess you'd have to get a pro bono tenant

> lawyer or do it yourself, not easy I suppose.

>

> You need to be careful about how vulnerable you show yourself to be to

> your landlord. If they understand you're sick and broke, they'll take

> advantage of you.

>

[Guest guest]

I googled cladosporium mold multiple sclerosis and found a lot of sites, like

this one -

http://www.achooallergy.com/mold-faqs.asp

There are lots of sites. I think it was my mold remediatiion person who

brought it to my

attention