Weaning off WP estrogen

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Liz,

Yes, I'll talk with my doctor about weaning off the WP. I'm very glad you

suggested that I

do the weaning with care.

I hadn't actually thought of the switch from WP estrogen to Vivelle as a

weaning. Is the

Vivelle patch (say, .05) radically less estrogen than what I have been getting

with the WP?

I've been doing E+2 and P-2. It's hard to comprehend that I've been getting

huge doses of

estrogen on the WP, when progesterone has been so dominant in my awareness,

apparently causing depression, grogginess, insomnia, urge-incontinence, and

candida.

I have applied the WP creams on my thighs and under my knees, and flab just

hangs off

my thighs because of muscular dystrophy. I wonder if that has any relevance.

I guess I'll just restate my question for this posting: Is it a major reduction

in estrogen to

switch from WP E cream to Vivelle .05?

Thanks,

>

> Hi ,

>

> I'm sorry I don't have any suggestions for you on vaginal P. I just wanted

> to suggest that you not stop the WP cold turkey. Especially the E. You will

> be going from a very high dose to almost nothing and it could have major

> effects. I don't know how you will want to wean and something you could talk

> over with your dr.

>

> Liz

>

> ___________________________________

> <http://www.ojaipaintedminis.com/> www.ojaipaintedminis.com

>

> <http://fineartamerica.com/artwork/tag/liz+vernand>

> http://fineartamerica.com/artwork/tag/liz+vernand

>

>

> _____

>

> From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]

> On Behalf Of cynthiacooke2045

> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 11:58 PM

> To: rhythmicliving

> Subject: How little vaginal P I can get away with

>

>

>

> Hello, readers,

>

> Last week I had a D & C to remove 2 uterine polyps. Four days from now I'll be

> talking to

> my doctor about quitting the Wiley Protocol (E+2, P-2), mainly because of

> depression. But

> what shall I do instead? I'm thinking of a .05 Vivelle patch and some form

> of vaginal

> progesterone.

>

> Prior to the WP, I did 9 months of the .05 Vivelle patch plus P in the form

> of a

> compounded, sesame-oil-based vaginal capsule, 30 mg. a day for 12 days a

> month.

> That's a total of only 360 mg. of P per month, and I got a decent monthly

> bleed from it,

> but each month I got more severely depressed.

>

> I wish I could take MUCH less progesterone, or none, because of depression,

> but I do want

> to protect my uterus from cancer and polyps. (My doctor says P " probably "

> prevents

> polyps.) A recent blood test (Day 12) and a recent saliva test (Day 6) both

> showed P levels

> twice the maximum desired levels, if I understand the test reports

> correctly. I feel certain

> that I was getting too much P on the WP, but I don't know how low I can go

> with vaginal P

> using a .05 Vivelle patch.

>

> Question 1: Do any of you have advice about how low I could go on vaginal P?

> Does it

> ultimately depend on whether I have a good 5-day bleed? I'm 62 and had light

> periods all

> my life before menopause.

>

> Question 2: Is it possible that the vaginal P caused depression because of

> the thinness of

> my vaginal walls? If so, is there anything relatively harmless that helps

> thicken vaginal

> walls? Does estriol do that? My pharmacy could add estriol to the vaginal P

> capsule.

>

> Depression is the biggest issue for me with P. Before my 9 months of vaginal

> P, followed

> by 1.5 years on the WP, I had a little depression now and then, but nothing

> like the

> depression that came with vaginal P or the WP.

>

> Thanks for any feedback.

>

>

[Guest guest]

, it depends on the person. I have read that estradiol is not well

absorbed through a cream base. Some on this list, however, got good

estradiol numbers on WP and some did not. What was your tested E2 level on

WP? Probably should do a test of E2 on Vivelle. Also, how you feel means a

lot.

Val

-----Original Message-----

From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]

On Behalf Of cynthiacooke2045

I guess I'll just restate my question for this posting: Is it a major

reduction in estrogen to

switch from WP E cream to Vivelle .05?

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Valarie. My E2 level on WP was 113 on Day 12. My blood was drawn 12

hours

after I applied my E cream the night before. Today happens to be Day 12 again

(still on

the WP, with E+2), and sure enough, I feel sunny and emotionally resilient --

better than I

have felt in weeks.

Thanks for reminding me that it matters, how I feel. My doctors (I have two)

seem so

focused on cancer prevention. I appreciate their vigilance, but I do want to

feel well

emotionally.

If I do a Vivelle .1 patch, do you think I'll go down much from 113? I suppose

I will. I

talked to my doctor yesterday and will write a separate message to the group

about that.

>

> , it depends on the person. I have read that estradiol is not well

> absorbed through a cream base. Some on this list, however, got good

> estradiol numbers on WP and some did not. What was your tested E2 level on

> WP? Probably should do a test of E2 on Vivelle. Also, how you feel means a

> lot.

>

> Val

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]

> On Behalf Of cynthiacooke2045

>

> I guess I'll just restate my question for this posting: Is it a major

> reduction in estrogen to

> switch from WP E cream to Vivelle .05?

>

[Guest guest]

, it is hard to tell how you'll absorb a Vivelle patch compared to

the WP cream. You'll just have to test and note how you feel. Larrian

Gillespie MD says, post meno, E2 should be between 70 - 114.

Val

-----Original Message-----

From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]

On Behalf Of cynthiacooke2045

Thanks, Valarie. My E2 level on WP was 113 on Day 12. My blood was drawn

12 hours

after I applied my E cream the night before. Today happens to be Day 12

again (still on

the WP, with E+2), and sure enough, I feel sunny and emotionally resilient

-- better than I

have felt in weeks.

Thanks for reminding me that it matters, how I feel. My doctors (I have

two) seem so

focused on cancer prevention. I appreciate their vigilance, but I do want

to feel well

emotionally.

If I do a Vivelle .1 patch, do you think I'll go down much from 113? I

suppose I will. I

talked to my doctor yesterday and will write a separate message to the group

about that.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Your numbers sound like mine were on WP. Even when I was at double WP E, my blood numbers only got to 120!. Pre WP, I went in wearing a .1mg Climara patch. I did a blood draw and my E level came back 34. It was no wonder, I felt horrible. I have since tried patches and different creams etc. and always pretty low numbers. Sometimes, I got it up to the 200's, using OOE (olive oil) I have recently tried an over the counter cream that has Estradiol in it and did get into the 200's but that was the first month. Now it's back down again. I have something going on in my body that is screwy. Though, if you go by my saliva tests, I"m going to die of cancer any day! I do know that I do feel better if I do a rise and fall, though really only feel good on the top end of a peak. But if I hold that peak to long, I level back out to feeling crappy. I do not use any P any more due to depression. I would rather die of cancer than kill myself from depression. (Being a little dramatic but you get my meaning). BUT I do not have a uterus and even so, I would not use P. I'm not advocating this but getting Endometrial cancer is not the end of the world if caught early. (at least the kind I had). I would do things much differently re:hyst also, if I knew what I know now. If you are closely monitoring than you will know if something is amiss. (I"m not a dr so please consult with one, though I have no faith in any)

I never did feel right on the WP, better in some ways but never really good except for a few day 12.

Have you had your testosterone checked. I feel like this is one of the missing pieces to the WP. The few drs I worked with who prescribed, did not seem to think this was very important.

And is SO right, about how you feel.

Liz

___________________________________

www.ojaipaintedminis.com

http://fineartamerica.com/artwork/tag/liz+vernand

From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On Behalf Of cynthiacooke2045Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 2:11 PMTo: rhythmicliving Subject: Re: Weaning off WP estrogen

Thanks, Valarie. My E2 level on WP was 113 on Day 12. My blood was drawn 12 hours after I applied my E cream the night before. Today happens to be Day 12 again (still on the WP, with E+2), and sure enough, I feel sunny and emotionally resilient -- better than I have felt in weeks. Thanks for reminding me that it matters, how I feel. My doctors (I have two) seem so focused on cancer prevention. I appreciate their vigilance, but I do want to feel well emotionally.If I do a Vivelle .1 patch, do you think I'll go down much from 113? I suppose I will. I talked to my doctor yesterday and will write a separate message to the group about that.>> , it depends on the person. I have read that estradiol is not well> absorbed through a cream base. Some on this list, however, got good> estradiol numbers on WP and some did not. What was your tested E2 level on> WP? Probably should do a test of E2 on Vivelle. Also, how you feel means a> lot.> > Val> > > -----Original Message-----> From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]> On Behalf Of cynthiacooke2045> > I guess I'll just restate my question for this posting: Is it a major> reduction in estrogen to > switch from WP E cream to Vivelle .05?>