Re: Re: Different Treatments with different doctors (GI issues/cholestyramine/mycoto

[Guest guest]

This study is very interesting.  I wonder if Dr. Shoemaker has seen it.

[] Re: Different Treatments with different doctors (GI

issues/cholestyramine/mycoto

[Guest guest]

Branislav,

Its my understanding that cholestyramine is too expensive to be used

in animal feed.

So the term " commercially available preparations " I think probably

refers to something else, like some kind of other additive.

Ive seen studies that used cholestyramine on trichothecenes..

On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 6:03 PM, Branislav <arealis@...> wrote:

>

>>

>> Thinking about it, I think your doctor probably didn't understand that

>> cholestyramine was being used to pull toxins out of enterohepatic

>> recirculation. Mycotoxins enter a loop between the liver and small

>> intestine and that becomes a point where they can get sent back into

[Guest guest]

Branislav,

Will you send me ANY information you have on this. I must have missed something

or something. Semes I have been talking about my tricothesine level with many

questions about CSM and why it has not been working and I seem to be getting

sicker and have gotten no out right answer or information to explain what you

just said (which I believe) Please help if you have information that I dont on

this.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I dont know anything about a farm but I have tricothesimes from stackybotryous

from my house and I want to get rid of these buggers so and the mycotoxins that

are doing whatever they do. I am like lost in the whole farm thing.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Branislav <arealis@...> wrote:

>

> Btw. I know that Dr Croft claims trichothecenes can be

> destroyed with ammonia, but several good chemists told me that was

> just impossible.

I've had that same conversation, and received the same advice.

However, ammonia is an excellent degreaser, and I can see ammonia

dissolving mycotoxin films so that then they could be washed away with

water. (so the toxin-laden ammonia water did not dry somewhere where

that concentrated toxin in solution could then be dangerous.)

Ammonia does not destroy trichothecenes. Only bleach

> with added sodium hydroxide can destroy trhichothecenes and it takes

> about 48 hours for the reaction to complete.

>

Ive read that a strong solution of bleach and water could inactivate

trichothecenes in around 30 min if the surface was also scrubbed. (I

think that was in the US Army Blue Book?)

> Incidentally, maybe some will remember here that last year I had great

> problems with the AC units from the building nearby. It poisoned me

> terrribly and I was almost sure the offending substance was a

> trichothecene mycotoxin.

We should try to get more information out of these situations when we

can, but of course, you usually only realize something is effecting

you after you have already dealt with it or moved on.

I have a fair to medium quality monocular microscope and I often wish

that I had collected a sample of some mold to look at.

I never do, it just spooks me too much at the moment it would be

possible. I need to get a lot better before I really have the courage

to linger in those situations. But I'd like to develop that skill.

Maybe at some point we could understand what we were looking at.

> I had all the classic mold symptoms (GI

> problems, severe chronic fatigue, disturbed vision, skin burning,

> terrible headaches, tooth loss etc.).

>

I remember you posting about the air conditioner problem. Its clearly

something that happens in urban settings a lot, and people who don't

live in buildings that are squeezed one right next to another don't

understand just how close people live in cities. The law is only just

beginning to recognize the unique problems sharing such close spaces

causes.

> I even went so far to suspect it was one particular trichothecene

> mycotoxin - Satratoxin - because the effects of satratoxin matched my

> symptoms almost 100%.

How?

>After about one year I discovered that ammonia

> is very effective against that contamination. It literally wiped it

> out. I talked with a chemist and he told me there was no way it could

> have been a trichothecene mycotoxin. The only possibility is that it

> was a MVOC (such as a hydrocarbon, aldehyde, ketone etc.) that was

> susceptible to ammonia.

>

Lots of variables and lots of possibilities..

> Also, it was definitely volatile to some extent, while trichothecenes

> are NONvolatile and could become airborne only if mechanically

> disturbed and thus aerosolised as fine particles.

Thats not what Ive heard from two experts - both who differed on the

exact specifics, but both objected to the characterization as

nonvolatile.. You must remember, we had this conversation before..

On the contrary, the

> last year's contamination could offgas from contaminated objects even

> if there was no air current or wind in the room.

>

> The details are very important if we want to understand what exactly

> is affecting us.

>

> I don't mean to say that nobody is affected by real mycotoxins. It

> probably happens in WDBs.

It happens a lot. Its happened to me - its the only explanation for a

very great many things that I experienced.

> However, in my opinion we often mistake

> MVOCs for mycotoxins.

Thats certainly possible and I think that we become sensitized to

them, which also hypersensitizes us to a number of other VOCS that are

non-microbial. That sensitvity is lasting and extremely unfortunate.

>MVOCs shouldn't be underestimated, that's all I

> wanted to say in the recent messages.

The more I've understood this, the more I've realized that myself. I

agree with you on this.

>They should be studied more

> dilligently since I'm sure they can cause many serious health

> problems. At the present time there's not much info about their

> effects on people. Even on the EPA site you'll find something like:

>

I think there is a cross-reactivity to some petroleum-based VOCs.

> " The health effects of inhaling mVOCs are largely unknown, although

> exposure to mVOCs has been linked to symptoms such as headaches, nasal

> irritation, dizziness, fatigue, and nausea. More research is needed to

> determine whether there are any human health effects from

> non-occupational indoor exposures to mVOCs. "

>

> or

>

> " Exposure to mVOCs from molds has been linked to symptoms such as

> headaches, nasal irritation, dizziness, fatigue, and nausea. Research

> on MVOCs is still in the early phase. "

>

> That sounds rather vague. It's as if they didn't want to waste their

> time with MVOCs lol. If it turns out that MVOCs are the most common

> cause of classic mold symptoms, then this would be one of the best

> examples of underestimating a class of chemicals for their potential

> to cause illnesses.

>

Yes..

[Guest guest]

If you are talking about " yellow ran " there were credible accounts of

civilians in Laos and Afghanistan seeing it sprayed from Russian

helicopters in the 80s, and that backs up Croft's assertation.

If you have ever cleaned up a LOT of stachybotrys film off of personal

items you'll also notice that the liquid you use to wash whatever

turns greenish yellow. Its nasty stuff.. get some on your hands

accidentally and it leaves burns.

I accidentally took one glove off to answer a phone call and then put

the glove I was wearing back on inside out while washing lots of

expensive cables that were very dirty from mold.. not only did my hand

turn red and the blood vessels stood out but also my left arm became

semi-useless for > 6 months. The shoulder had some issue that had me

thinking that it was going to be permanent.

But thankfully it did get better and its more than 3/4 better now. But

its taken a long time.

On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 1:23 AM, who <jeaninem660@...> wrote:

> sure makes you wonder how much some people that had MCS symptoms that

> ran around for 20 years tring to get everyone to believe that

> mycotoxins was what caused it and touting great abilitys of detection

> to mycotoxins and experts that talk of seeing volatile mycotoxins in

> the air has hurt the cause of getting this illness reaconized.what a

> travisty to those really severely injured from their exposures.

> kind of makes you wonder, with all their self proclaims of extreme

> knowledge just what side of this they are really on. and those that

> knownly go along when reliable documentation says otherwise over and

> over again for the sake of who their beholding to doesn't when no

> prizes in my book. in fact it answers quite a few questions. even

> stranger is when their beholden but state that they wouldn't use this

> expert if they had a case but set back knowing that very sick people

> are and doesn't say a damn word. no excuse for that. none at all.

>

[Guest guest]

Who and List Members,

Thanks for this post. The question that for all based on your experiences is--

Is there one approach that can work to determine what type(s) of exposure we've

had and heal us or are we needing to tackle the problems from a variety of areas

(immunilogical, allergic, detox, etc)?

I know that based on the depth of detail and info that many of you have at your

disposal from all your hard work in researching that this may be an elementary

question. I've been at this for a year and am quite new to my understanding of

what we are all up against in varying ways. So, please excuse my lack of

understanding.

Knowing how tired I get, and that most of you suffer the same and worse, I am

encouraged and amazed at how learned so many of you are.

Many Thanks,

Sam

> PS Branislav, it's obvious from your past posts and this

> one that you

> consentrait way to much on myco's and no other part of

> these

> exposures,