Re: Re: Mycotoxins and filters

[Guest guest]

Me too, sometimes those blower-type furnaces make me really sick, really fast.

Many people never clean them out.

We have hot water heat which is much, much better.

BTW, in my post, I wasn't trying to say that HEPA air cleaners did a

good enough job,

99% of the mass is deceptive because the bigger particles are not the

ones that go

down deep into your lungs.

The smallest ones that do get passed through a HEPA cleaner

are also the ones that can make it down into your lungs. HEPA cleaners in a home

pass the air through the filter over and over again, which eventually results in

the home's air being cleaner of particulates than otherwise.

But they don't get everything,

and in a really toxic environment, people still seem to get sick.

A combination of dilution (fresh air or powered ventilation, like with

an HRV) is much better.

If you ventilate AND filter, whatever buildup that might otherwise

occur, can't happen.

On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 8:31 AM, barb1283 <barb1283@...> wrote:

> Thanks, and I guess that is problem with forced air furnace rather than

> floor board heaters, etc, it keeps particles suspended, where they can

> be inhaled, rather than settled. I'm sure this is only a problem for

> people who are very sensitive like myself and some people here though.

> I have mixed feelings now about room air cleaners because of this since

> they keep air circulating and I think suspend particles. I guess the

> real solution is house should be cleaner (my house should be cleaner.

> I fall behind due to fatigue), and perhaps run air cleaner only when I

> leave house and turn it off when I return home. I also bought free

> standing area heaters, oil filled, and almost forgot about them, need

> to set them up. It's cold here already (how quickly it changes!!!).

> What I did last year was put the stand alone area heaters in each room

> I use to provide heat, including the room where the thermostat is, and

> that way furnace runs less. It saves a bit on the heating bill

> also.

>

>

>

>>

>> If your focus is on fungal fragments and spores (solids) a HEPA

> filter will

>> remove >99% of the fungal biomass.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jill,

Don't rely on a filter to prevent illness. They may help, but they

pass the worst particles.

The filters ONLY can reliably remove the LARGE particles - whch can't

get down deep into your lungs.

There are many small particles that CAN and DO go through filters..

If you are in a sick building, you need to get the problem cleaned up

or get out of there.

A combination of bringing in as much fresh air as you can (Balanced

ventilation is the best way to do that

for example, as I've said, a " heat recovery ventilator " is good for

warming (or cooling, in summer)

the incoming fresh air with outgoing stale air, so you can ventilate

year round- AND good filtration -

would help a LOT more than filtration only. Otherwise, you keep

rebreathing stale air that may contain

all sorts of nasty stuff.. For example, so many building materials now

contain formaldehyde. (Its a real challenge

getting people like contractors to understand that fake wood, etc.

must be avoided, for people Ive found.. )

They just don't get it, maybe because its cheaper. Its everywhere!

BTW, Thats WHY Canada requires HRVs on new construction! We should too!

Also, filtration needs to be constant and filters

that get dirty need to be cleaned or replaced..otherwise in situations

like yours, they might easily be spreading

fungal fragments, lead paint dust, asbestos, etc, around even after

their sources may have

been eliminated.

Ventilation has a huge advantage over filtration in that unless you

have added filters on the intake,

you don't need to keep buying expensive filters!

If you have filters on a ventilation unit, they are often washable..

[Guest guest]

Jen,

You are lucky to have this flexibility. Good luck.

On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 3:45 PM, jill1313 <jenbooks13@...> wrote:

> I believe you, I believe you!

> In looking at rentals and even places to buy, tho, I have to tell you,

> a lot of homes are sicker than mine.

>

[Guest guest]

Jill, I was referring to the difficulties a lot of people are having

with the finances of moving.. the stuff in the links I posted

earlier.. (reposted below)

By flexibility, I meant a safety net. For example, the financial

flexibility to be able to buy or rent another home.

Its not just not being able to find a healthy place, for many people

now its hard to find ANY place.

For example, with foreclosures- many people who themselves lose their

homes through foreclosure (or because mold made them have to move

before their lease was up!) its not as simple as renting an apartment.

They end up with ruined credit, so, then, they can't rent, either.

Renting is credit.

See

Foreclosure stigma haunts would-be renters

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25415471/

This stigma of having been foreclosed on is a serious problem that is

effecting a huge number of people now. Also, many renters suddenly

find themselves being evicted even though THEY paid THEIR rent -

because their landlord did not pay their own mortgage.

See

States act for renters caught in foreclosure trap: New laws require

mortgage holders to give sufficient notice to tenants

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27226273/

So, I guess what I was saying is that compared to a lot of people, you

have more flexibility because you have the financial wherewithal to

move and your biggest concern is finding a healthy place, which is

very, very hard, but not as hard as the problems that would come if

you were also dealing with these other harrowing situations in

addition to having been hypersensitized and having Lyme disease.

I am sure that a lot of the homeless people you see on the streets of

many large cities started down the path to becoming homeless because

of a mold incident. Then they lost their health, then their job, then

their home, then their family and friends... And getting back to a

normal life often never happens...

Some other issues that seem to never get discussed.. A normal life is

so extremely dependent on wealth, or health and ability to work, and

work being there when you need it. Healthcare is dependent on having a

good job.

Location is very important for a lot of jobs.. Often, homes near jobs

are the reasons people are able to get or keep jobs. Commuting long

distances comes with a lot of risks. Public transportation is often

very unreliable.

These factors need to be weighed, carefully, before many give up

fixable homes that they might otherwise have been able to keep

somehow..

On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 6:27 PM, jill1313 <jenbooks13@...> wrote:

> Uhhhh....what flexibility?

> I'm rather trapped and have been for awhile.

> And having purified my environment of what I can, I'm more aware that

> I want to live in a clean, healthy place.

>

> It ain't gonna be easy even if the financials at some point go my way,

> which at this point, they haven't.

>

>

>>

>> Jen,

>>

>> You are lucky to have this flexibility. Good luck.

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

I think many moldy buildings CAN be fixed. There are many truly " sick

buildings " - really bad situations that are expensive to fix, maybe

very expensive to fix, and mild situations that are easy to fix, in

basically dry buildings, and everything in between.

Often problems are fixable, its not some intractable problem.

Promoting an idea that all mold problems are unfixable is just as

destructive to our health and well being as saying that there are no

problems from mold at all.

Both viewpoints manage to avoid spending money on repairs.

Both positions are wrong.

Obviously, if somebody lets a building fall apart for years, when or

if they finally attack the problem, its going to be expensive to fix.

[Guest guest]

Jill,

I was trying to explain to you the importance of documenting the

situation with asbestos and lead paint dust in the demolotion of your

building, and also the costs of being ill.

There are a number of posts which made in response to you, which

didn't make it out to the list. They were not offensive, they

explained the economic realities of looking for an apartment with a

cloud (NOT OF YOUR MAKING) on your tenancy.

Although those articles were not specifically

about mold, they did apply because this difficulty often ends up being

a common situation for moldies, because their ex-landlords often feel

it necessary to blame problems of ther creation on the tenants, having

done no maintainance -

They do this so they will win in any future, potential lawsuit.

Lacking the funds to defend themselves, (it costs thousands of

dollars) many tenants walk away, often not realizing that this

situation will make it impossible to rent the second apartment they

try to rent.. (they have usually already found a place at that point,

which often does not work out)

That is what I was trying to explain, but you seemed to work to not

understand it.

In addition to the problems of this means that they don't get deposits

back and/or are placed into databases of bad tenants,

The URLS again of the articles are:

Renters evicted because of landlord's failure to pay mortgage,

resulting in massive numbers of good tenants being forced into homelessness:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27226273/

Foreclosure stigma haunts would-be renters

Some landlords turning away rental applicants with mortgage baggage

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25415471/

Jill, bluntly, we both are in better situations than many people.. I

wasn't trying to be offensive, I was saying that we should count our

blessings, and be as compassionate as we could to others who were not

as fortunate.

You have said the occasional thing that has bothered me too, many

people here do. Should we? No.

We also should try to understand that this problem is destroying lives

on a massive scale and our system is giving people no alternatives but

to move at a time when they can't afford to move, when its not their

fault.

As you know, people are also told to throw all their posessions away,

including all of their clothes. Who is supposed to pay for that, they

are!

On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 8:21 AM, jill1313 <jenbooks13@...> wrote:

> I have thought about this post of yours, Live, esp this paragraph. I

> hope that this post of mine goes through to the list.

>