Re: Re: Tearing Down my house. Need advice please - Not to contaminate the ground.

[Guest guest]

You still need to check with your state health/environmental

department for their regulations on asbestos. Federal and States

have taken the legitimate position (as law) that the only way to

comply with asbestos removal regulations is to know by testing

whether or not there is asbestos in the materials. Furthermore,

they say building materials at ANY time, including today, may

have asbestos because of the lack of inspection and the vast

amount of imported materials from countries who do not prohibit

asbestos.

Wetting down the building is excellent and in some jurisdictions

required for dust control. It may not be acceptable for asbestos

control. However, because the fire department is helping you I

would guess that protocol is legal where you live.

Asbestos can be specifically identified because it is a few distinct

minerals and not an entire kingdom. Plus there are consensus

testing methods with regulatory limits. Inspectors and contractors

must, by law, be licensed and certified.

Very different from mold, isn't it.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> We're using steel studs. I have to build on a 3 ft. raised slab. I will not

let them even

> bring a table saw in the house while building.

>

> My builder is VERY familiar with my situation, we just want to " kill the

ground " before we

> put anything down. I am only allowed to bring grade 8 white sand in.

>

>

>

> >

> > have heard that you are supposed to take out the earth to a depth of 3

> > feet-also, what are you going to build? if a slab, you could bring in

> > lots of compact fill,then stones, but a stilt house might be great-lots

> > of air underneighth-but I guess it depends on where you live-I would be

> > very worried about any contact with the earth-also build with steel-use

> > no wood at all-and no sheetrock-only DEns-armour plus-please put it in

> > the contract that they use no equipment that has visible mold-and

> > absolutly no wood-I rebuilt,and only lasted a week in my new house

> > because of wet wood.

> >

> > >

> > > What can I do to treat the ground? I know there will be a large

> > concentration of various

> > > molds soaking into the ground.

> > >

> > > Any advice on who to call, what kind of company, chemicals, anything

> > to insure I am not

> > > going to rebuild on contaminated ground and have the same problem

> > again?

> > >

> > > Thank you in advance for your suggestions.

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello,

 I just heard on the news today that a school bus was sprayed with antifungal

chemicals on accident by a passing crop duster plane. The children are ok and

one child was taken to the hospital for observation. Maybe you can call some

farm supply or crop dusting company for their antifungal chems. If they spray

them on food i would suppose its safe under a cement foundation. Ofcourse you

might want to ask though if its safe just incase. Also this might be overly

simple but whatever you will treat the ground with i would lastly put baking

soda down. Its a natural antifungal and will help clean up the dirt and is

cheap.

Elias

From: <kdeanstudios@...>

Subject: [] Re: Tearing Down my house. Need advice please - Not to

contaminate the ground.

Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 9:13 AM

have heard that you are supposed to take out the earth to a depth

of 3

feet-also, what are you going to build? if a slab, you could bring in

[Guest guest]

Semco semoc semco (what do you want to be called, its tiring typing

the same thing 3 times...)

My God. My heart goes out to you for what obviously has been a real nightmare.

14 years.. It sounds like you have a story to tell.

The building that I got sick in was over 100 years old, and the

basement was partially dirt and frequently flooded..

The problem with dirt is that its loaded with microbes, mold, you name it..

Now I am just speculating but I would suspect that if you had a

building with lots of mold in it, the best way to tear it down would

be to tear it down using PPE and NOT to soak it first because that

would dislodge a lot of spores that might otherwise stick to the

wallboard and be taken away.. and instead, carry them into the

ground.. where they would stay..

,

Where did you hear that? Was this in reference to mold or to something

else... (lead, mercury, PCBs)

The problem with all earth is that it is ALIVE. It all has tons of

microorganisms in it, that is one of the reasons why

buildings with earth basements - and buildings with crawlspaces

beneath them that are not

aggressively isolated from the building, are often so problematic.

Old dirt that has been dry for a long tme probably has less

microorganisms.. The best for microbial resistance might be concrete

or sand or gravel... I don't know..

Sometimes, earth that is in a place might be contaminated with other

things.. (Google " Love Canal " for example) stuff like arsenic..or

lead.. Old orchards are sometimes particularly problematic because of

pesticides they used to use..

Its a Pandoras Box of variables..

The best and most important thing is making sure that whether you use

your old dirt or new, your home site is toxin free..

Some mold toxins persist a long time and not much is known about how

they would persist in soil..

Thats an interesting question.. I wouldn't wet the soil down and drive

all that stuff into the ground.

I would have people wear PPE and bag it all up, very well..and cart

it away.. But of course, either is going to be expensive.

On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:13 PM, <kdeanstudios@...> wrote:

> have heard that you are supposed to take out the earth to a depth of 3

> feet-also, what are you going to build? if a slab, you could bring in

> lots of compact fill,then stones, but a stilt house might be great-lots

> of air underneighth-but I guess it depends on where you live-I would be

> very worried about any contact with the earth-also build with steel-use

> no wood at all-and no sheetrock-only DEns-armour plus-please put it in

> the contract that they use no equipment that has visible mold-and

> absolutly no wood-I rebuilt,and only lasted a week in my new house

> because of wet wood.

>

>

>>

[Guest guest]

The Florida Dept of Health Web site has nothing on asbestos. So

that means the Federal regulations are in force. Go to the EPA

web site at: http://www.epa.gov/asbestos/pubs/ashome.html

Good info on homes, federal requirements and asbestos

professionals. I'd also call 2 or 3 companies listed in the Yellow

pages in your area and see what they say. Try the county or city

health department, also. They may have something.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Carl, how would i know what to look for regarding asbestos? The siding is

hardiplank and

> believe it or not, most of the drywall has been removed and replaced during

the two

> attempts at remediation.

>

> I called the environmental agencies today and was given a number that doesn't

accept

> calls. The city seems to be unconcerned, even though there are houses within

15 feet of

> mine.

>

>

> > > >

> > > > have heard that you are supposed to take out the earth to a depth of 3

> > > > feet-also, what are you going to build? if a slab, you could bring in

> > > > lots of compact fill,then stones, but a stilt house might be great-lots

> > > > of air underneighth-but I guess it depends on where you live-I would be

> > > > very worried about any contact with the earth-also build with steel-use

> > > > no wood at all-and no sheetrock-only DEns-armour plus-please put it in

> > > > the contract that they use no equipment that has visible mold-and

> > > > absolutly no wood-I rebuilt,and only lasted a week in my new house

> > > > because of wet wood.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > What can I do to treat the ground? I know there will be a large

> > > > concentration of various

> > > > > molds soaking into the ground.

> > > > >

> > > > > Any advice on who to call, what kind of company, chemicals, anything

> > > > to insure I am not

> > > > > going to rebuild on contaminated ground and have the same problem

> > > > again?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you in advance for your suggestions.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > > FAIR USE NOTICE:

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Always get a second opinion. Given that your house is so new, perhaps

the chances of finding

lead paint and/or asbestos are pretty low..

Bear in mind that whatever they quote you, they can do better. Anyone

associated with building or construction is

probably hurting for business right now. They may only get one or two

gis a month when before they got five or six..

They may also highball you because business is tight and they have to

pay THEIR mortgage, but you need to get the best price...

You also have to be careful because a lot of people associated with

construction are sort of shady.

(We have been told this again and again by the few good contractors!)

Watch out...

Good luck!

On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 11:17 PM, Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...> wrote:

> The Florida Dept of Health Web site has nothing on asbestos. So

> that means the Federal regulations are in force. Go to the EPA

> web site at: http://www.epa.gov/asbestos/pubs/ashome.html

> Good info on homes, federal requirements and asbestos

> professionals.

[Guest guest]

What timing! It is very easy to get quotes, I had one guy come in an hour..

There are not a lot of demolition companies in this area and the bids are coming

in quite low. One thing I liiked about the guy I just left is he started

talking about taking the glass out, etc, where other companies just demo it and

leave broken glass everywhere, etc.

I am learning. ly, so far, I am not upset about the quotes. I am sure I

can work them down, but they are not shocking. Way under 10,000.00 to demo an

1800 sq foot house full of furniture.

[Guest guest]

With the increased emphasis on lead-based paint by state and

Federal agencies, the neighbors and local authorities might care

about lead-based paint " dust " becoming airborne during

demoliton. It would be prudent to check to be sure.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Most states only control removal of asbestos if a contractor does the

> work-She is not doing the work herself, so the contractor makes these

> determinations , and takes the refuse to the proper faclity-it can be

> difficult to fnd an asbestos certified dump,but everyone knows what

> asbestos siding looks like-and the old small tiles. No one will really

> cares about lead in a total tear down

>

> LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote:

> >

> > When was your house built? Have you tested the house for asbestos,

> > lead paint, etc.

> >

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

[Guest guest]

Did anybody read that New York Times article? It was pretty interesting.

We have recently been doing remodeling and I have been saving the old wood

that is in good shape (much of it is.)

Its better quality wood than you often see now, still VERY solid..

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 2:12 PM, C A <semco_semco_semco@...> wrote:

> What timing! It is very easy to get quotes, I had one guy come in an

> hour.. There are not a lot of demolition companies in this area and the bids

> are coming in quite low. One thing I liiked about the guy I just left is he

> started talking about taking the glass out, etc, where other companies just

> demo it and leave broken glass everywhere, etc.

>

> I am learning. ly, so far, I am not upset about the quotes. I am sure

> I can work them down, but they are not shocking. Way under 10,000.00 to demo

> an 1800 sq foot house full of furniture.

>

> __

>

[Guest guest]

Two years ago when I neighbor tore off their roof to add a new story I got

VERY ill, very fast..

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 8:00 PM, Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...> wrote:

> With the increased emphasis on lead-based paint by state and

> Federal agencies, the neighbors and local authorities might care

> about lead-based paint " dust " becoming airborne during

> demoliton. It would be prudent to check to be sure.

>

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> > Most states only control removal of asbestos if a contractor does the

> > work-She is not doing the work herself, so the contractor makes these

> > determinations , and takes the refuse to the proper faclity-it can be

> > difficult to fnd an asbestos certified dump,but everyone knows what

> > asbestos siding looks like-and the old small tiles. No one will really

> > cares about lead in a total tear down

> >

> > LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote:

> > >

> > > When was your house built? Have you tested the house for asbestos,

> > > lead paint, etc.

> > >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

I AM shocked, but the little town I live in seems to care less how you take a

building down. Maybe they just want me to stop going down to city hall LOL!

[Guest guest]

,

I am living in a rental house that I will remain in until my home is rebuilt.

Target time no more than six months. I am not sure i will be able to stand this

house that long. Seems the cleaning people doused the furniture with some type

of febreeze or something to mask an odor. When I come in, I am overwhelmed by

this " sweet " odor. I can't find it and can't get rid of it. My eyes burn, my

asthma kicks in and apparently I am the only person who can really smell it. We

have searched and searched for this " freshner " and can't find it anywhere.

I am going to try a mist of vinegar and water on the furniture next weekend. I

have no idea what else to do, however, the other rental houses I looked at, BOY,

when my mold people opened up the air handlers, we all about died. Mold is a

MAJOR problem where i live, but unfortunately no one knows it.

I have contacted the chamber of commerce, which is a strong organization in my

little town, about sponsoring an educational breakfast, (where about 400

business owners usually attend), on mold and mold related problems. Inviting

mold remediation companies, etc... They are interested.

Maybe I should add hypersensitivity to it as well.

Off my soapbox and other subjects.

Answer - 6 months - in a rental house. Best I can do under the circumstances.

[Guest guest]

The nice thing of living where you live is that you can probably get

very clean, fresh sea air. I would do your best to

keep the windows open as much as you can, if its possible, always try

to keep at least two windows open, on opposite sides or different

floors, whenever its not raining or freezing cold (not very likely

where you live!) outside..

Then you should be able to prevent the odor from building up as much..

Is this an insurance issue where the insurance company will only pay

to rebuild a house in the exact same location?

[Guest guest]

No, this is not an insurance issue, but that is a sore subject since they have

not given me a penny. Not one cent! They still have not decided to accept or

deny the claim. I have paid thousands of dollars to insurance companies, but

they don't pay. Personally, I think insurance is a scam.

Now, about the place I live. You would assume that you could get fresh air,

however, we are plauged with things like red tide. Which appears randomly, and

is here now. (I can tell you before the authorities announce it). It is a

bacteria that when it blooms, it releases toxins into the air and causes

respritory (sp) distress, allergic type reactions like burning throat & eyes,

conjestion, etc. Here's a good read on it.

http://www.whoi.edu/redtide/

Leaving windows open in Florida is not really a good idea. With VERY high

humidity on the coast, combined with excessive heat, if you open your windows

and run your air, you are only asking for trouble. As far as I am concerned,

opening windows with high humidity period is asking for trouble.

All the rental units air conditioners are FILLED with mold because our tourist

run down here, crank the air down low, leave the doors open and bask away in the

" fresh air. " All the while, the air handlers are sucking in the humid air and

condensation begins forming IN the air conditioner. I have seen units that are

literally dripping on the outside too. With that water, there comes MOLD. I am

currently living in the only rental unit Ik could find that the air conditioner

looked " normal " .

I would never buy an existing house in Florida. Moisture is a HUGE problem and

as most Florida politics goes, everyone will ignore it until the state is

embarrassed to do something about it. Don't get me on my soapbox again.

I would leave here in a split second if I could afford to, but for many reasons

I can't. I own a business, barely since I am sick most of the time and in

constant pain, but am unemployable anywhere else.

My house was missing moisture barrier in many areas and moisture got into the

house from hurricanes, etc. Oh, don't forget about Florida's hurricane problems

driving water into your walls, especially when builders cut corners and don't

properly build houses. If you haven't watchd my youtube video, here is the

address.

I have been going through this for 3 years and am angry, depressed, sick and

frustrated. I hate this place because all this happened to me here. But for

the meantime, I am stuck. Stuck until someone actually learns how to treat this

sickness sucessfully.

[Guest guest]

All those air fresheners are hideous aren't they? I think we should for a

coalition and run through the stores that sell them and put stickers renaming

them to Air Toxifiers. Watch the newspapers, I may be the first one arrested to

this crime.......

[Guest guest]

We had a water claim on our home a couple of years ago, when it was six

months new. Our insurance would pay for " water damage " but had a $10,000

cap on anything mold related. Insurance companies are very aware of the

expense involved in remediating properties and protect themselves so they

don't have to pay for it. Our insurance company cancelled us after the

claim. Our current company doesn't cover mold at all and has a $10,000 cap

on anything water related. This is all thanks to a sleazy builder who

refused to honor his builder's warranty.

Kenda

[Guest guest]

Yes, indeed, red tide is dangerous and in fact, Dr. Shoemaker, who is

the leading doctor in the world

in treating mold illness, initially was drawn to studying biotoxins

because he was seeing a lot of patients who

had been effected by it. (He is a family physician in Pokemoke,

land, which is near the Chesapeake Bay)

Evidently, the algae produce toxins very similar (low molecular

weight, etc) to mold toxins and they also are bound

by choletyramine, which removes them from enterohepatic recirculation.

(You probably already know ALL about this, blah blah blah..)

[Guest guest]

If I were to pick someone who knows the most about algae in the water, it would

be Ken Hudnelll. He is retired EPA and owns a company called solarbee.

www.solarbee.com where they produce products to battle toxic algae growing in

waters.

Ken has actually made presentations to some officials in Florida since our

waterways are so polluted with toxins here.

You can cc this to anyone you want, I see you cc's the Shoemaker fan club the

last post. Personally, I am not fond of Dr. Shoemaker. That is all I have to

say on the matter.

[Guest guest]

Kenda,

I don't know who your policy was with, but most agents who sell them don't even

understand them. That $10,000.00 cap on mold remediation is strickly for the

removal of the mold and moldy items. You still have coverage for the rebuild.

As for the new company, it doesn't surprise me they don't cover mold or much

water. Insurance is such a scam now They want your money, your mortgage

company requires it, but if you file a claim, you MUST hire an attorney and give

up a huge percent of your claim if it is ever paid.

We're lucky to be able to buy any since the last few years where I live.

[Guest guest]

Yes, the company paid out close to $150,000 to rebuilt but anything that had

mold on it was listed under the mold portion of the policy and was limited

to $10,000.

Kenda

> Kenda,

>

> I don't know who your policy was with, but most agents who sell them don't

> even understand them. That $10,000.00 cap on mold remediation is strickly for

> the removal of the mold and moldy items. You still have coverage for the

> rebuild.

>

> As for the new company, it doesn't surprise me they don't cover mold or much

> water. Insurance is such a scam now They want your money, your mortgage

> company requires it, but if you file a claim, you MUST hire an attorney and

> give up a huge percent of your claim if it is ever paid.

>

> We're lucky to be able to buy any since the last few years where I live.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Can you imagine having a job as a " sniffer " to determine which one of these

toxic chemicals is " pleasing " ? Gag, those people's nostrils must be fried! WHO

comes up with the " flavors? "

> From: jill1313 <jenbooks13@...>

> Subject: [] Re: Tearing Down my house. Need advice please - Not

to contaminate the ground.

>

> Date: Saturday, October 25, 2008, 12:22 PM

> LOL.I don't know whether it's better to have MCS or

> not. At least you

> avoid poisons like that because you have to...

> Anyway, a coat of paint could help seal them in. A healthy

> paint, mind

> you. I would try to create a " safe " bedroom in

> your rental house:

> windows open, door closed, air purifier like Austin (mini

> healthmate),

> repaint that one room, remove anything upholstered, and put

> a good

> 100% cotton mattress cover on the mattress. BTW, any new

> cotton has to

> be washed a few times because of chemicals in it.

>

>

> >

> > All those air fresheners are hideous aren't they?

> I think we should

> for a coalition and run through the stores that sell them

> and put

> stickers renaming them to Air Toxifiers. Watch the

> newspapers, I may

> be the first one arrested to this crime.......

> >

[Guest guest]

Where do you live? I need to move there. I am so impressed your insurance

actually PAID!

> From: Kenda Skaggs <oliverblue@...>

> Subject: Re: [] Re: Tearing Down my house. Need advice please -

Not to contaminate the ground.

>

> Date: Saturday, October 25, 2008, 5:34 PM

> Yes, the company paid out close to $150,000 to rebuilt but

> anything that had

> mold on it was listed under the mold portion of the policy

> and was limited

> to $10,000.

>

> Kenda

>

> > Kenda,

> >

> > I don't know who your policy was with, but most

> agents who sell them don't

> > even understand them. That $10,000.00 cap on mold

> remediation is strickly for

> > the removal of the mold and moldy items. You still

> have coverage for the

> > rebuild.

> >

> > As for the new company, it doesn't surprise me

> they don't cover mold or much

> > water. Insurance is such a scam now They want your

> money, your mortgage

> > company requires it, but if you file a claim, you MUST

> hire an attorney and

> > give up a huge percent of your claim if it is ever

> paid.

> >

> > We're lucky to be able to buy any since the last

> few years where I live.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hold on, that oesn't sound like standard operating practice

Because..water damage came first, and that is usually a covered loss.

[Guest guest]

The water damage is covered under the " water " portion of the policy. As you

know, mold remediation is more costly and time intensive than simply

removing the water damaged areas of the home and rebuilding. Anything

needing " remediation " work is covered under the mold portion of the policy,

which has a separate policy limits. Our insurer at the time was Ohio

Casualty and it is standard practice in Oklahoma.

Kenda

> Hold on, that oesn't sound like standard operating practice

>

> Because..water damage came first, and that is usually a covered loss.

>

[Guest guest]

Do you have an Insurance Commission in Florida? That wouldn't happen in

Oklahoma. We were cancelled mid-way through our water claim but the insurer

was required by law to pay out the claim -- and they did very quickly. In

total, they paid out over $150,000 for two claims involving water in our new

home. We had a leaking condensate drain in the attic and a shower pan leak

in the master bath.

Kenda

[Guest guest]

Oklahoma. We had Ohio Casualty Insurance until they cancelled us. They

paid like clockwork, we had no problems at all with regard to payment. We

weren't happy that they cancelled us but not surprised. Since the house is

new, I'm sure they didn't want to risk another loss.

Kenda

> Where do you live? I need to move there. I am so impressed your insurance

> actually PAID!

>

>

>