Re: How do you read a mold report?

[Guest guest]

Tina,

First, forgive my snarky response to your question, " How do you

read a mold report? "

My answer is with a flaming match held closely to the lower right

hand corner. If you are left-handed, it will be the lower left hand

corner.

I had a long day at a new house, not quite finished, for what was

supposed to be a simple mold inspection in the crawlspace.

There was a little visible mold in one spot but was insignificant

compared to what was needed to prevent big problems because

of water issues and construction defects throughout. It is a case

study on how irrelevant mold reports usualy are.

Improper flashing at the edge of decks allowing water to soak

back below the surface, stone steps with cracked grout and no

protective membrane beneath alllowing snow-melt to leak inside

the house with framing showing signs of rot - and the buyer is

supposed to close next Wednesday. Flagstone walkways

cracking as we walked on them because they were improperly

installed, a wood panel installed to hold back dirt in a penetration

to the foundation but it was saturated with water draining down to

it and into the crawlspace, vapor barriers on exterior walls

installed incorrectly, a radon contractor offering a lifetime

guarantee but they been in business less than a year. Wonder if

they will be around next year, let alone in 20 years.

Shall I go on? Oh yes, it was not a house of cheap construction

and ill-repute. It was a multi-million dollar house at a ski resort.

I took no mold samples because to do so would be a waste of

money. The priority, instead, is to work with the builder to gain his

cooperation to stop the current leaks and fix the pending ones for

prevention. It's going to cost him and his subcontractors at least

$30,000 because they will have to tear out some construction and

start over. Decent consultation fees for me and keeps me

working but it is aggravating when problems such as these, and

what many on this group experience, are so totally and absolutley

unnecessary.

Now that I have vented, I need to ask some questions before I

know what the numbers mean.

1. Who took the samples and why did he take them? Only the

person who developed the sampling plan, collected the samples

and interpreted the data knows how to read his report. Everybody

does it differently. Why samples of which type were collected at

their particular locations are all necessary to begin to understand

what the numbers mean. The fact he won't discuss the meaning

is a giant red flag that he doesn't know what they mean either. It's

called suck air, collect money, leave.

2. Where inside the house were they taken?

3. Where outside the house were they taken?

4. Was the outside sample taken first or last? Most take the

outside sample last which completely destroys the outside to

inside comparison based on the outside moving to the inside.

5. What sampling method? It appears a spore-trap was used

based on the unit of measure in " spores/m3 " rather than culturing

which would be in CFU/m3. Plus, the Penicillium/Aspergillus

identification. So a better question would be what was the flow

rate of the pump, how long did it run, had it been calibrated and

what was the debris rating?

6. What is the history of the house? If it was flooded a month ago

and this is what's left after clean-up you are in very good shape. If

the samples were collected for " clearance " inside a containment

with air scrubbers running there is still a source of mold.

7. Did you react when visiting the house? If so, did the complaints

stop once you left? Or did it take several hours? Some people

would have no reactions to 10 times these levels but another

individual could have a life threatening asthma attack from

exposure to any one of them at 1/10 these numbers. Where are

you on the sensitivity scale?

8. The total lack of Cladosporium outside, because it is almost

always present, raises questions about proper identification of the

spores by the lab. Was the lab AIHA or A2LA certified and

independant from the inspector? Was the sample was actually

collected outdoors? Did you witness it? I've seen samples taken

inside by others, right in front of me, with a window open. And the

collection air pump was readjusted to an improper flow rate.

9. Are the numbers from just two samples or were others

collected and the numbers given you are an average?

There's more but I think you get the idea. The numbers must

have a context in order to have any meaning. There is no

meaning in the numbers themselves. They need a history of

moisture events, the type of building and its systems, the climate

and time of year, the susceptibility profile of the occupants, a

definition of the problem so a question can be developed which

only sampling can answer, etc.

Because you are considering buying the property I suggest you

need all the other information more than you need lab samples. I

guarantee that if the same person took samples tomorrow in the

same locations, they would get different results. What does that

mean?

So don't feel too badly about not figuring out how to interpret the

numbers. Nobody can. Instead, focus on identifying locations of

dampness conducive to the growth of mold and bacteria and how

you personally experience the house. That will give you much

more accurate and representative basis for making a decision

than a few mold samples will.

In the meantime, to learn more, start by going to

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/ and read the free information and

take the short video training course.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats

-----

> I just spent the last hour trying to research how to read a mold

> report and there are no answers. I am considering buying a condo and

> I had it inspected. The company that took the report is unwilling to

> discuss it with me because I stupidly went through a middleman.

>

> What do these scores mean? They are spores/m3:

>

> Cladosporium (inside): 720

>

> Curvularia (inside): 40

>

> Other Basidiospores (outside): 40

>

> Penicillium/Aspergillus (inside): 280

> Penicillium/Aspergillus (outside): 400

>

> Unidentified spores (inside): 40

>

> Are these scores bad? I'm trying to buy this property but now I am

> thinking of canceling the deal. Can mold be removed?

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

[Guest guest]

1) An inspector I hired took the samples and sent them to a company

in Weston, FL.

2) Its a condo and they took them from the living room, according to

the report. Which concerns me because I know there are loose tiles

in the bathroom and I'm sure the count is much higher there. There

was also moisture found on the adjacent wall in the bedroom. Not a

lot, but present.

3) Outside they were taken on the first floor balcony which is right

near the pool.

4) I'm not sure which was taken first or whether they were taken

simultaneously.

5) I don't know any of these answers. Myself and the realtor showed

up about an hour after he had arrived and the machine was running

for at least a half hour after that.

6) Its a first floor condo near the ocean built in 1973. The grounds

are impeccably maintained, as is the pool. It is an expensive place

to live, relatively.

7) I didn't have any reactions.

8) All I know in response to these questions is that the lab is AIHA

accredited.

9) Don't know the answers to these questions.

I know that there is a problem with the tiles being loose in the

shower. If this is fixed, is this likely to clear up the problem? Do

I need to get rid of all the carpets?

Thanks for your help.

--- In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...>

wrote:

>

> Tina,

>

> First, forgive my snarky response to your question, " How do you

> read a mold report? "

>

> My answer is with a flaming match held closely to the lower right

> hand corner. If you are left-handed, it will be the lower left

hand

> corner.

>

> I had a long day at a new house, not quite finished, for what was

> supposed to be a simple mold inspection in the crawlspace.

> There was a little visible mold in one spot but was insignificant

> compared to what was needed to prevent big problems because

> of water issues and construction defects throughout. It is a case

> study on how irrelevant mold reports usualy are.

>

> Improper flashing at the edge of decks allowing water to soak

> back below the surface, stone steps with cracked grout and no

> protective membrane beneath alllowing snow-melt to leak inside

> the house with framing showing signs of rot - and the buyer is

> supposed to close next Wednesday. Flagstone walkways

> cracking as we walked on them because they were improperly

> installed, a wood panel installed to hold back dirt in a

penetration

> to the foundation but it was saturated with water draining down

to

> it and into the crawlspace, vapor barriers on exterior walls

> installed incorrectly, a radon contractor offering a lifetime

> guarantee but they been in business less than a year. Wonder if

> they will be around next year, let alone in 20 years.

>

> Shall I go on? Oh yes, it was not a house of cheap construction

> and ill-repute. It was a multi-million dollar house at a ski

resort.

>

> I took no mold samples because to do so would be a waste of

> money. The priority, instead, is to work with the builder to gain

his

> cooperation to stop the current leaks and fix the pending ones for

> prevention. It's going to cost him and his subcontractors at least

> $30,000 because they will have to tear out some construction and

> start over. Decent consultation fees for me and keeps me

> working but it is aggravating when problems such as these, and

> what many on this group experience, are so totally and absolutley

> unnecessary.

>

> Now that I have vented, I need to ask some questions before I

> know what the numbers mean.

>

> 1. Who took the samples and why did he take them? Only the

> person who developed the sampling plan, collected the samples

> and interpreted the data knows how to read his report. Everybody

> does it differently. Why samples of which type were collected at

> their particular locations are all necessary to begin to

understand

> what the numbers mean. The fact he won't discuss the meaning

> is a giant red flag that he doesn't know what they mean either.

It's

> called suck air, collect money, leave.

>

> 2. Where inside the house were they taken?

>

> 3. Where outside the house were they taken?

>

> 4. Was the outside sample taken first or last? Most take the

> outside sample last which completely destroys the outside to

> inside comparison based on the outside moving to the inside.

>

> 5. What sampling method? It appears a spore-trap was used

> based on the unit of measure in " spores/m3 " rather than culturing

> which would be in CFU/m3. Plus, the Penicillium/Aspergillus

> identification. So a better question would be what was the flow

> rate of the pump, how long did it run, had it been calibrated and

> what was the debris rating?

>

> 6. What is the history of the house? If it was flooded a month ago

> and this is what's left after clean-up you are in very good shape.

If

> the samples were collected for " clearance " inside a containment

> with air scrubbers running there is still a source of mold.

>

> 7. Did you react when visiting the house? If so, did the

complaints

> stop once you left? Or did it take several hours? Some people

> would have no reactions to 10 times these levels but another

> individual could have a life threatening asthma attack from

> exposure to any one of them at 1/10 these numbers. Where are

> you on the sensitivity scale?

>

> 8. The total lack of Cladosporium outside, because it is almost

> always present, raises questions about proper identification of

the

> spores by the lab. Was the lab AIHA or A2LA certified and

> independant from the inspector? Was the sample was actually

> collected outdoors? Did you witness it? I've seen samples taken

> inside by others, right in front of me, with a window open. And

the

> collection air pump was readjusted to an improper flow rate.

>

> 9. Are the numbers from just two samples or were others

> collected and the numbers given you are an average?

>

> There's more but I think you get the idea. The numbers must

> have a context in order to have any meaning. There is no

> meaning in the numbers themselves. They need a history of

> moisture events, the type of building and its systems, the climate

> and time of year, the susceptibility profile of the occupants, a

> definition of the problem so a question can be developed which

> only sampling can answer, etc.

>

> Because you are considering buying the property I suggest you

> need all the other information more than you need lab samples. I

> guarantee that if the same person took samples tomorrow in the

> same locations, they would get different results. What does that

> mean?

>

> So don't feel too badly about not figuring out how to interpret

the

> numbers. Nobody can. Instead, focus on identifying locations of

> dampness conducive to the growth of mold and bacteria and how

> you personally experience the house. That will give you much

> more accurate and representative basis for making a decision

> than a few mold samples will.

>

> In the meantime, to learn more, start by going to

> http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/ and read the free information and

> take the short video training course.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats

>

> -----

> > I just spent the last hour trying to research how to read a mold

> > report and there are no answers. I am considering buying a condo

and

> > I had it inspected. The company that took the report is

unwilling to

> > discuss it with me because I stupidly went through a middleman.

> >

> > What do these scores mean? They are spores/m3:

> >

> > Cladosporium (inside): 720

> >

> > Curvularia (inside): 40

> >

> > Other Basidiospores (outside): 40

> >

> > Penicillium/Aspergillus (inside): 280

> > Penicillium/Aspergillus (outside): 400

> >

> > Unidentified spores (inside): 40

> >

> > Are these scores bad? I'm trying to buy this property but now I

am

> > thinking of canceling the deal. Can mold be removed?

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > FAIR USE NOTICE:

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Mold exists in all homes. Its a matter of degree, and I'm trying to

find out how high these levels are.

>

> Tina,

> I wouldn't do it.  If your sensetive to mold there shouldn't be

any mold. 

> When in doubt throw it out, when in doubt get the heck out!!  

> When in doubt ?   Don't go in!!

> Not worth it.  there are places with out moluds.

> Thats my 2 cents for what it worth.

> a

>