Fish oil

[Guest guest]

Tom,

best way is to check messages from a week ago or so. just recently posted

loads of information including proper dosage. She had written a wonderful book

Late Talker which is greatly helpful.

I add fish oil to my son's cream of wheat. I mix cream of wheat with apple sauce

and he gets a tripple charge of nutritous breakfast. He hates it.. but oh

well... I quickly get fish oil into him and then he finish his food.

I use Nordic Naturals Complete Omega and will be switching to ProEFA as soon as

other bottle is done. These particular pills are very helpful for my son. I

never gave him any other ones because I tried Wal-mart brand myself and those

have pretty bad after taste.

[ ] Fish Oil

We are considering introducing fish oil to our 5 year old son's diet.

Since I see many posts about this subject I thought I would ask the

" experts " . Is one type/form/brand better than another? I have not

done much research on this supplement so any information would be

appreciated regarding the use and effectiveness of fish oil.

Thank you

Tom Hess

[Guest guest]

geoff....Funny you should bring that up. I went through one super large

bottle of fish oil to see if it would help. Nothing!! I contented myself with

the thought that it was probably still good for me even though it did not

help with inflammation. Of course once the bottle was empty, I did not buy

another. Drug companies are not the only ones who sometimes promise more than

they can deliver. That said, there is probably someone out there who did

really well on it and gobbles them down like candy!!!! Martha

[Guest guest]

Geoff, what about this link that '' provided way back in February.

According to her, " It [celadrin] has both an oral and a topical formula that

help to control pain and inflammation from arthritis in a more natural way. "

Might be expensive.

www.celadrin.com

Ellen

..

rheumatic Fish Oil

> Hi Gang! Geoff here.

>

> I've been trying fish oil for inflammatory relief of late but had no

> benefit

> whatsoever. Any input on dosage, time-to-effect, etc., would be

> appreciated.

>

> Geoff

>

>

>

>

> To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

>

>

[Guest guest]

Geoff,

People suffering from RA should eat two to three servings of oily fish a

week, or take 3 grams (3,000 mg) of Omega-3 fatty acids (EPA+DHA) per day.

To calculate the number of 1-gram fish oil capsules, divide the 3 g by the

amount of EPA and DHA per capsule. Let's assume that each 1000 mg capsule

contains 200 mg of EPA plus DHA. The number of daily capsule would then be

3 g / 0.2 g = 15 capsules. This is in line with the recommendation that

people with RA should be taking one 1000 mg fish oil capsule for every 10

pounds of body weight.

To obtain the number of milliliters (mL) of liquid fish oil, divide 3 g by

the amount of EPA and DHA per mL. Let's assume that each mL contains 300 mg

of EPA plus DHA. The number of daily capsule would then be 3 g / 0.3 g = 10

mL, which is exactly two (2) measuring teaspoons.

The most economical way to take fish oil is in the form of liquid: one

measuring teaspoon in the morning and one in the evening. Carlson brand of

fish oil does not have any fishy taste if your purchase the version labeled

" Great Lemon Taste. "

I have found actual salmon to be a wonder drug for my rheumatic condition,

which appears to be a form of RA. If I eat salmon in the evening, I feel

much better the next day.

Sincerely, Harald

At 09:44 AM 8/13/2005 -0700, Geoff wrote:

>Hi Gang! Geoff here.

>

>I've been trying fish oil for inflammatory relief of late but had no

>benefit whatsoever. Any input on dosage, time-to-effect, etc., would be

>appreciated.

>

>Geoff

[Guest guest]

Harald,

> To calculate the number of 1-gram fish oil capsules, divide the 3 g by the

> amount of EPA and DHA per capsule. Let's assume that each 1000 mg capsule

> contains 200 mg of EPA plus DHA. The number of daily capsule would then be

> 3 g / 0.2 g = 15 capsules. This is in line with the recommendation that

> people with RA should be taking one 1000 mg fish oil capsule for every 10

> pounds of body weight.

Thanks. I can only eat salmon about 1x a month if farm raised and colored.

The fresh wild-caught I seem to be able to eat 2-3x/wk w/out problems, but I

gain no noticeable benefit from it and at $7/lb on sale it's more than my

wallet can support. The fish oil is a new adventure for me, so the formulae

you provided will be a great help.

Geoff

[Guest guest]

I was on fish oil for a couple of months, and saw no benefit as far as

inflammation or pain. I'm sure that it's good for us, but I have doubts

that it really does that much for inflammation.

in Alaska

----- Original Message -----

From: " Geoff " <geoff@...>

> Hi Gang! Geoff here.

>

> I've been trying fish oil for inflammatory relief of late but had no

benefit

> whatsoever. Any input on dosage, time-to-effect, etc., would be

> appreciated.

>

> Geoff

[Guest guest]

Ellen,

Thanks, visiting the site I remember this stuff from the original post.

Have you tried Celadrin or know of anyone who has?

Geoff

----- Original Message -----

From: " Ellen McCool " <ellenmccool@...>

> Geoff, what about this link that '' provided way back in February.

> According to her, " It [celadrin] has both an oral and a topical formula

> that help to control pain and inflammation from arthritis in a more

> natural way. " Might be expensive.

>

> www.celadrin.com

>

> Ellen

[Guest guest]

Be sure your fish oil is molecularly distilled and that you are taking the

correct amount. It takes time to take effect when your RA is bad. Also,

look for brands with the highest levels of EPA and DHA.

> Hi Gang! Geoff here.

>

> I've been trying fish oil for inflammatory relief of late but had no

> benefit

> whatsoever. Any input on dosage, time-to-effect, etc., would be

> appreciated.

>

> Geoff

>

>

>

>

> To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

>

>

[Guest guest]

My understanding is that it takes about 3 months to have effective results

with the fish oil. It is good for lots of things. It is supposed to be good

for your heart for one. People have commented on how great my skin looks.

That's a plus for me...as I am approaching 63. I was told to take

pharmaceutical grade fish oil and not food grade, because the pharmaceutical

is more pure, with less toxins.

Re: rheumatic Fish Oil

Be sure your fish oil is molecularly distilled and that you are taking the

correct amount. It takes time to take effect when your RA is bad. Also,

look for brands with the highest levels of EPA and DHA.

> Hi Gang! Geoff here.

>

> I've been trying fish oil for inflammatory relief of late but had no

> benefit

> whatsoever. Any input on dosage, time-to-effect, etc., would be

> appreciated.

>

> Geoff

>

>

>

>

> To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

When I have salmon for dinner, I see beneficial anti-inflammatory effects

the next day.

Salmon works great for me, but may not work as effectively for other

people, since we are all different.

Regards, Harald

At 09:49 AM 8/16/2005 -0600, you wrote:

>My understanding is that it takes about 3 months to have effective results

>with the fish oil. It is good for lots of things. It is supposed to be

>good for your heart for one. People have commented on how great my skin

>looks. That's a plus for me...as I am approaching 63. I was told to take

>pharmaceutical grade fish oil and not food grade, because the

>pharmaceutical is more pure, with less toxins.

>

>

[Guest guest]

, can you tell me how/where to get pharmaceutical grade fish oil? I've been

taking fish oil for several years. Aided in reducing my cholesterol 100Pt's.

Usually just take Vitamin Shoppe brand, but bought Carlson's liquid yesterday.

I just read today that you should not take Vitamin C and fish oil at the same

time. Hard to keep it all straight.

My Doc told me to eat oily fish at least 3 times per week. Have bought Alaskan

Wild, but over $14 per pound. Don't know how much of a problem eating farm

raised/colored salmon is for me, but I did notice having 2 better days after

eating it last week. I'll have it again tonight and see if it happens again.

Jane

Katz <mpkatz@...> wrote:

My understanding is that it takes about 3 months to have effective results

with the fish oil. It is good for lots of things. It is supposed to be good

for your heart for one. People have commented on how great my skin looks.

That's a plus for me...as I am approaching 63. I was told to take

pharmaceutical grade fish oil and not food grade, because the pharmaceutical

is more pure, with less toxins.

Re: rheumatic Fish Oil

Be sure your fish oil is molecularly distilled and that you are taking the

correct amount. It takes time to take effect when your RA is bad. Also,

look for brands with the highest levels of EPA and DHA.

> Hi Gang! Geoff here.

>

> I've been trying fish oil for inflammatory relief of late but had no

> benefit

> whatsoever. Any input on dosage, time-to-effect, etc., would be

> appreciated.

>

> Geoff

>

>

>

>

> To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jane, would you mind giving me your source for saying fish oil and vit. c

should not be taken together?

Thanks,

Re: rheumatic Fish Oil

>

>

> Be sure your fish oil is molecularly distilled and that you are taking the

> correct amount. It takes time to take effect when your RA is bad. Also,

> look for brands with the highest levels of EPA and DHA.

>

>

>

>

>> Hi Gang! Geoff here.

>>

>> I've been trying fish oil for inflammatory relief of late but had no

>> benefit

>> whatsoever. Any input on dosage, time-to-effect, etc., would be

>> appreciated.

>>

>> Geoff

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Jane,

I don't know if Carlson's is pharmaceutical grade, but from what I've read it

seems to be an excellent brand. Someone told me a good place to get it is

www.vitacost.com tele # is 1-800-793-2601. #P 000 3869. It's $13.94 and

cheaper than retail stores.

I have been taking Dr. Dave's Best fish oil that I got from my massage

therapist. http://www.drdavesbest.com/ It is expensive though and I thought I

would try Carlson's when I run out. You also can browse Google for fish oils

and pharmaceutical fish oils and shop around for the best prices. I use fish

oil, along with other supplements and trying to eat well......organic if

possible. I am definitely no expert on any of this and am trying to learn and

try different things to see what works for me. I have done a lot of searching

and researching on the internet. I have found that very informative.

I finally agreed to go on Nabumetone and also prednisone on occasion when I have

had a flare up to try and prevent further damage. I have had tendons break in my

thumbs which required surgery. The rheumy, at last but reluctantly, agreed to

give me a prescription for Minocin about a month ago and I am hoping that I can

stop the nabumetone and prednesone before too long.

My best wishes

Re: rheumatic Fish Oil

, can you tell me how/where to get pharmaceutical grade fish oil? I've

been taking fish oil for several years. Aided in reducing my cholesterol

100Pt's. Usually just take Vitamin Shoppe brand, but bought Carlson's liquid

yesterday.

I just read today that you should not take Vitamin C and fish oil at the same

time. Hard to keep it all straight.

My Doc told me to eat oily fish at least 3 times per week. Have bought

Alaskan Wild, but over $14 per pound. Don't know how much of a problem eating

farm raised/colored salmon is for me, but I did notice having 2 better days

after eating it last week. I'll have it again tonight and see if it happens

again.

Jane

with - make it your home page

[Guest guest]

Good Advice Harald.

I like salmon but can't seem to eat it that regularly.

How are things going with you? Hope you're doing well and have recovered

from your hospital adventure by now.

Re: rheumatic Fish Oil

> ,

>

> When I have salmon for dinner, I see beneficial anti-inflammatory effects

> the next day.

>

> Salmon works great for me, but may not work as effectively for other

> people, since we are all different.

>

> Regards, Harald

>

>

> At 09:49 AM 8/16/2005 -0600, you wrote:

>

>>My understanding is that it takes about 3 months to have effective results

>>with the fish oil. It is good for lots of things. It is supposed to be

>>good for your heart for one. People have commented on how great my skin

>>looks. That's a plus for me...as I am approaching 63. I was told to take

>>pharmaceutical grade fish oil and not food grade, because the

>>pharmaceutical is more pure, with less toxins.

>>

>>

>

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[Guest guest]

,

Thank you for caring. I will do a more complete post in about one month

about my medical adventures. I am currently on Nabumetone, no longer

Minocin. Nabumetome is an NSAID, but is gentle on the stomach.

My most recent complete surprise was 3 weeks ago, when the serious pain and

fluid buildup that I had been experiencing in my left knee was identified

by an MRI as being due to an unexpected " extensive meniscal tear " -- not

RA. The tear has now been fixed successfully with arthroscopic surgery, and

my left knee is as good as new except for three pinhole scars.

Back to fish oil. I would recommend Carlson Fish Oil to anyone. Each 5 mL

(one measuring teaspoon) contains 1,600 mg of Omega-3 fatty acids. Take two

teaspoons per day. The label states " vitamin A & D free, " which is good

since fish oil can provide too much vitamin D. Be sure to purchase the

Carlson Fish Oil labeled " Great Lemon Taste. "

Sincerely, Harald

At 12:26 PM 8/16/2005 -0600, you wrote:

>Good Advice Harald.

>

>I like salmon but can't seem to eat it that regularly.

>

>How are things going with you? Hope you're doing well and have recovered

>from your hospital adventure by now.

>

>

[Guest guest]

, Source for fish oil and Vit C info. I read it in a health letter named

Health Security. I don't have a citation for the research. The article

discusses fish oils and the rest of the info is pretty well known, including

purchashing molecularly distilled fish oils. Here is the quote, " Fish oil can

amplify the effects of blood-thinning medications such as warfarin. Steroids

can counteract fish oil's anti-inflammatory properties. When taken with vitamin

C or vitamin C plus iron, a pro-oxidant rather than antioxidant effect may

occur " .

There is an interesting site re fish and fish oils that are safe and

unsafe and amounts to be consumed. Atlantic Salmon is a real No No. I knew

that, but thought maybe it wasn't that bad......... Anyone interested in this

topic might benefit from looking at www.oceansalive.org. If you keep searching

there you can find where it rates fish oil capsules and liquids. Vitamin Shoppe

was one of the worst. Carlson rates well, as do many others for contaminents.

Alaskan Salmon is the way to go and frozen is fine. Does anyone where to

find it at an affordable price????

Jane

Ken and <kglg@...> wrote:

Jane, would you mind giving me your source for saying fish oil and vit. c

should not be taken together?

Thanks,

Re: rheumatic Fish Oil

>

>

> Be sure your fish oil is molecularly distilled and that you are taking the

> correct amount. It takes time to take effect when your RA is bad. Also,

> look for brands with the highest levels of EPA and DHA.

>

>

>

>

>> Hi Gang! Geoff here.

>>

>> I've been trying fish oil for inflammatory relief of late but had no

>> benefit

>> whatsoever. Any input on dosage, time-to-effect, etc., would be

>> appreciated.

>>

>> Geoff

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

,

Dr. Mercola writes in http://www.mercola.com/2002/jun/8/fish_oil.htm: " If

you already have significant sun exposure, as many of us do during the

summer, then you should not take cod liver oil, as you will run the risk of

overdosing on vitamin D. You should then take fish oil capsules. The

standard fish oil capsule is 180 mg of EPA and 120 mg of DHA. You should

take approximately one capsule for every ten pounds of body weight,

preferably in two divided doses. So if you weigh 160 pounds you would take

8 capsules twice a day. If you have problems with belching them up, you

will want to consider taking them on an empty stomach. "

See http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/982088787.html

What is the health risk of too much vitamin D?

There is a high health risk associated with consuming too much vitamin D.

Vitamin D toxicity can cause nausea, vomiting, poor appetite, constipation,

weakness, and weight loss. It can also raise blood levels of calcium,

causing mental status changes such as confusion. High blood levels of

calcium also can cause heart rhythm abnormalities. Calcinosis, the

deposition of calcium and phosphate in soft tissues like the kidney can be

caused by vitamin D toxicity.

Consuming too much vitamin D through diet alone is not likely unless you

routinely consume large amounts of cod liver oil. It is much more likely to

occur from high intakes of vitamin D in supplements. The Food and Nutrition

Board of the Institute of Medicine considers an intake of 1,000 IU for

infants up to 12 months of age and 2,000 IU for children, adults, pregnant,

and lactating women to be the tolerable upper intake level. Daily intake

above this level increases the risk of adverse health effects and is not

advised.

Regards, Harald

At 07:04 PM 8/16/2005 -0400, you wrote:

>Hi Harold. What happens if you have too much vitamin D in your

>system? Thanks.

[Guest guest]

Hi Harald;

How are you doing? So nice to have you back.

Until recently I would not have thought too much about vitamin D.My

doctor thought I had osteoporosis and orderd the D test to check if that

might be the problem causing it.We both really sat up straight when we

founf that the 1,25 vs 25 was 3 times normal.She then had a mineral

analysis done and I am in deep trouble.The test covered over 30 minerals

and I am only normal in 4,very low in most and off the chart high in

many others.All my life I was slightly anemic and now at

hematochramatosis level with iron.I have virtually no zinc in my system

despite taking 100mg dayly.So goes for many others.This is caused by the

D.Whether I wanted or not I am now virtually on the Marshall protocol

diet and totally out of the sun until things get straightened out.

Lynne SD

Harald Weiss, Technical Marketing Group wrote:

> ,

>

> Dr. Mercola writes in http://www.mercola.com/2002/jun/8/fish_oil.htm: " If

> you already have significant sun exposure, as many of us do during the

> summer, then you should not take cod liver oil, as you will run the

> risk of

> overdosing on vitamin D. You should then take fish oil capsules. The

> standard fish oil capsule is 180 mg of EPA and 120 mg of DHA. You should

> take approximately one capsule for every ten pounds of body weight,

> preferably in two divided doses. So if you weigh 160 pounds you would

> take

> 8 capsules twice a day. If you have problems with belching them up, you

> will want to consider taking them on an empty stomach. "

>

> See http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/982088787.html

>

> What is the health risk of too much vitamin D?

>

> There is a high health risk associated with consuming too much vitamin D.

> Vitamin D toxicity can cause nausea, vomiting, poor appetite,

> constipation,

> weakness, and weight loss. It can also raise blood levels of calcium,

> causing mental status changes such as confusion. High blood levels of

> calcium also can cause heart rhythm abnormalities. Calcinosis, the

> deposition of calcium and phosphate in soft tissues like the kidney

> can be

> caused by vitamin D toxicity.

>

> Consuming too much vitamin D through diet alone is not likely unless you

> routinely consume large amounts of cod liver oil. It is much more

> likely to

> occur from high intakes of vitamin D in supplements. The Food and

> Nutrition

> Board of the Institute of Medicine considers an intake of 1,000 IU for

> infants up to 12 months of age and 2,000 IU for children, adults,

> pregnant,

> and lactating women to be the tolerable upper intake level. Daily intake

> above this level increases the risk of adverse health effects and is not

> advised.

>

> Regards, Harald

>

>

> At 07:04 PM 8/16/2005 -0400, you wrote:

>

> >Hi Harold. What happens if you have too much vitamin D in your

> >system? Thanks.

>

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> To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

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[Guest guest]

here's the answer in an archive I call EFAs 101. If you get

nothing else out of this please note:

-there is no such thing as " children's " DHA (it's fish oil)

-the DHA formula is a pure Omega 3 and we've found they don't work

for most (need a formula that has both Omega 3 and a bit of Omega 6)

-children's DHA is cod liver oil. Fish oil from the liver of the

fish naturally contains vitamin A. Fish oil not from the liver of

the fish does not contain vitamin A. Need to be careful with too

much vitamin A so be aware of this.

-for children around 4 and up you'll want to start with just the one

capsule of say ProEFA for just a week, then increase to two. So

when you read the following keep that in mind. One capsule of

ProEFA is about equivalent to the dosage of EFAs found in infant

formula approved by the FDA:

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Date: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:49 pm

Subject: Re: proEFA/ childrens DHA???...and more

Hi Lebby, and all,

The confusion is more the brand names than the formulas. In

actuality there really is no such thing as a " children's EFA "

perfect for all children yet. However fish oils can be marketed to

children by making fun flavorings and smaller capsules. Most of

the parents I know squeeze the oil out of the capsule anyway -so

that's besides the point for most of our group.

EFAs are now in baby formula and food, and EFAs come and are used in

a variety of formulas for children for various reasons. Mainly we

hear about the use of them for healthy brain development in regards

to children -but they are even proven to help prevent asthma

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/02/20/1077072840758.html

And they may be coming to a school lunch near you -if you live in an

area of savvy parents

http://www.valleystar.com/localnews_more.php?id=51945_0_19_0_C

Regarding your specific question: (and to answer your question Chris)

ProEFA is an Omega 3 (DHA and higher EPA) formula with a small

amount of Omega 6 (GLA) The Omega 3 in the ProEFA is from fish oil -

not from the liver of the fish -so no vitamin A. Only fish oil made

from the

liver of the fish contain vitamin A.

Children's DHA is cod liver oil which since it's from the liver of

the cod fish, it naturally contains Vitamin A. Cod liver oil only

contains Omega 3 (DHA and EPA) about that point:

" Most of our experience is with one, 1.0 gram capsule of ProEFA

(Complete Omega) that contains 144 mg EPA, 99 mg DHA and 40 mg of

GLA. We know that this combination appeared to work well. There

were some other supplements used but we could not conclude anything

about them. I can only say that both EPA and DHA are important and

GLA appears to have an additional positive effect on speech.

ALA, linoleic and oleic acids in " The Total Omega " contribute very

little to the EPA, DHA, and GLA effect.

I see at least 2 possibilities that you could use if you decide to

make the transition from short-chain omega-3s in plants (flax seed

oil containing alpha-linolenic acid or ALA, C18:2n-3) to the long-

chain mixture of EPA (C20:5n-3) and DHA (C22:6n-3). These are DHA

Jr. (30 mg DHA and 20 mg EPA in a serving unit) and Coromega (350 mg

EPA and 230 mg DHA). Both of these have been anecdotally successful

in the past.

Coromega can be divided in two and taken one half in the morning the

other in the evening. If you choose this mode you will provide your

son with the equivalent EPA+DHA of 2 ProEFA capsules per day without

the GLA.

Flax seed oil or freshly ground flax seeds are an excellent source

of the essential omega-3 alpha-linolenic acid (ALA or LNA) which is

the quintessential parent member of the omega-3 family of essential

fatty acids (EFAs). The body transforms it into EPA and the EPA

into DHA. This transformation is very inefficient (the yield is

about 10%) and is further inhibited by over consumption of omega-6

fatty acids from most vegetable oils or certain disease states.

Therefore, it is advisable to independently consume also ready made

EPA and DHA from good quality fish of from high quality fish oil

supplements. Some recommended intakes are listed on the

Introductory lecture on EFAs that I gave at the First Conference on

Therapy of Verbal Apraxia, July 23-24, 2001, town, NJ. (

http://www.cherab.org/news/scientific.html )

The CHERAB Foundation's positive research results on potential

improvement in speech following EFA supplementation are based

on the use of ProEFA (Complete Omega) and that contains also

another essential fatty acid, GLA which is an omega-6 fatty acid.

The latter appears to be beneficial to children with apraxia. It is

not present in flax seed/flaxseed oil.

None of these materials present with any known side effects or

known toxicity in an otherwise healthy person. Nevertheless, we

advise every user of supplements to use them under medical

supervision. We don't know your child and we cannot provide you

with medical advice.

Sincerely,

Katz, Ph.D. "

About mercury and fish oil (vs. eating fish)

" Fish oils have been tested for various heavy metals like mercury

and there has been enough preliminary proof through studies, as well

as theory from reputable sources, that as I've posted many times

I've heard that the oils from fish may be the safest way to get the

benefits of the EFAs without the toxins due to the fact that mercury

etc. binds to the proteins/muscles of the fish.

" Measurement of mercury levels in concentrated over-the-counter fish

oil preparations: is fish oil healthier than fish? "

" CONCLUSIONS: Fish are rich in omega-3 fatty acids, and their

consumption is recommended to decrease the risk of coronary artery

disease. However, fish such as swordfish and shark are also a source

of exposure to the heavy metal toxin, mercury. The fish oil brands

examined in this manuscript have negligible amounts of mercury and

may provide a safer alternative to fish consumption. "

Division of Laboratory Medicine, Department of Pathology,

Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston,

Mass 02114, USA.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\

4632570 & dopt=Abstract

And one other thing to keep in mind for those like me who do eat

both fish and take fish oil, there are toxins in the fish you eat

that won't be in the oil For example while mercury etc. binds to

the protein (muscle of the fish) so it's not in the oil of the

fish. From what I've read -the largest problem with fish oil itself

is rancidity. Oxygen and fish oil doesn't mix well.

Consumer Reports had this to say (most likely because toxins in

many cases bind to the protein and most oils are not tested for

rancidity)

" Consumer Reports tested 16 top-selling fish-oil pills which, like

other supplements, aren't closely regulated by the FDA.

Consumer Reports' Metcalf says the test results are

reassuring, " We found that all 16 brands that we tested had the

amount of Omega-3s that they said they did, which is good news. And,

we don't always find that with supplements. "

Since fish can contain toxins, Metcalf says Consumer Reports also

checked the supplements for purity, " We tested for three kinds of

toxins that often appear in fish — mercury, dioxin, and PCBs. "

Testers didn't find significant levels of toxins in any of the pills

tested, so you don't have to worry about contaminants. "

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/features/consumerwatch/consumer_070303_om

ega3.html

" The omega-3 fatty acids offer some unique benefits, should they

prove to be truly effective mood stabilizers. The advantages of the

omega-3 fatty acids as mood stabilizers include the apparent acute

efficacy in both the manic and depressive phases of bipolar

disorder, their lack of toxicity, as well as high patient

acceptance. In addition, omega-3 fatty acids confer some health

benefits during chronic use, such as possible reduction in the risk

of a fatal myocardial infarction. In addition, the omega-3 fatty

acids have no documented adverse drug interactions, and appear to be

safe (and possibly beneficial) in pregnancy and in children. "

http://ods.od.nih.gov/news/conferences/w6w3_abstracts.html

" I had the wonderful opportunity to hear ph Hibbeln, M.D., Chief,

Outpatient Clinic National Institute of Alcoholism and Alcohol

Abuse, NIH, Bethesda, land at the First Apraxia Conference

http://www.cherab.org/news/scientific.htm lecture about the

importance of PUFA -especially during pregnancy when you are growing

a brain inside you. If you don't consume enough PUFAs while

pregnant -the babies body will pull it from the mother's body. It's

his theory and research as to why so many mom's experience post

partum depression. http://www.beachpsych.com/pages/cc46.html In

additionit is proven that the PUFAs are important for cognitive

ability.

http://neuroscience.nih.gov/Lab.asp?Org_ID=352

Here is a quote from the US Department of Agriculture,

Environmental Chemistry Laboratory, Agricultural Research Service,

20705, Beltsville, MD, USA

Brain-specific lipids from marine, lacustrine, or terrestrial food

resources: potential impact on early African Homo sapiens. The

polyunsaturated fatty acid (PUFA) composition of the mammalian

central nervous system is almost wholly composed of two long-chain

polyunsaturated fatty acids (LC-PUFA), docosahexaenoic acid (DHA)

and arachidonic acid (AA). PUFA are dietarily essential, thus normal

infant/neonatal brain, intellectual growth and development cannot be

accomplished if they are deficient during pregnancy and lactation.

Uniquely in the human species, the fetal brain consumes 70% of the

energy delivered to it by mother. DHA and AA are needed to construct

placental and fetal tissues for cell membrane growth, structure and

function. Contemporary evidence shows that the maternal circulation

is depleted of AA and DHA during fetal growth. Sustaining normal

adult human brain function also requires LC-PUFA.Homo sapiens is

unlikely to have evolved a large, complex, metabolically expensive

brain in an environment which did not provide abundant dietary LC-

PUFA.

http://www.unl.ac.uk/ibchn/e_Link/cbpbbmb2002.htm

" The omega-3 fatty acids offer some unique benefits, should they

prove to be truly effective mood stabilizers. The advantages of the

omega-3 fatty acids as mood stabilizers include the apparent acute

efficacy in both the manic and depressive phases of bipolar

disorder, their lack of toxicity, as well as high patient

acceptance. In addition, omega-3 fatty acids confer some health

benefits during chronic use, such as possible reduction in the risk

of a fatal myocardial infarction. In addition, the omega-3 fatty

acids have no documented adverse drug interactions, and appear to be

safe (and possibly beneficial) in pregnancy and in children. "

http://ods.od.nih.gov/news/conferences/w6w3_abstracts.html

Here is an archive answer to answer more on EFAs:

" I will use the following examples with the brand name ProEFA since

that's the formula/dosage that seems to work the best for most of us

(Efalex and EyeQ are similar Omega 3/6 formulas that also have good

reports) For any brand name of Omega 3/6 formula -you could make

the same formula by mixing together fish oil and either primrose or

borage seed oil if you prefer -or as found -another brand

name with a similar formula (and I hope also a good quality)

If you mix two fish oils together which is fine if you know why you

are doing that: Look at the amount of DHA, EPA (Omega 3) and the

amount of GLA (Omega 6) and then add them all together to see what

formula and dosage you now have is. So for those of you that ask -

you can mix any brand names together you would like -however what

you could change is the three things above (dosage, formula and

*quality (*if one of the companies you start using has rancid oils

which is not uncommon when it comes to fish oils -so make sure all

brands you use are pure) Keep in mind in anecdotal feedback done by

parents from all over through CHERAB -that pure Omega 3 or pure

Omega 6 either showed no results -or very little results in almost

all cases. Pure Omega 3 would include pure cod liver oil, fish oil,

flax seed oil without any Omega 6. So even though there is only a

small amount of GLA (Omega 6) in the formulas we found to be

successful -GLA appears to be important to be there for some

reason. GLA has anti-inflammatory properties which perhaps enable

to DHA and EPA to get to where it's needed in the brain?

Dosage of one capsule a day ProEFA that at the lowest dosage appears

to be the best -

148 mg EPA

99 mg DHA

40 mg GLA

Here is what many of us have found to be the best plan

anecdotally:

....start with the basic formula, one ProEFA a day, we

saw surges in a few days to three weeks which continued for months -

we then reached a plateau after around 6 months.

At this point we raised the dosage to two capsules of ProEFA a day

and once again had those surges which lasted again for months.

When we reached the next plateau after around a year, instead of

going to three a day - we squeezed 1/2 to one capsule of ProEPA into

the 2 capsules of ProEFA and for almost all of us that try -that

created another surge.

Over time -you may raise the dosage up higher -and you may slightly

change the formula to raise the Omega 3 over the Omega 6 ratio.

Most found raising the EPA vs. the DHA or GLA to be best -but

you need to know your own child, keep track of his progress through

both your own observations and that of the professionals -with the

advice of your child's doctor -to know what is best for him/her.

There is much more in the archives both here -as well as more

information at

http://www.cherab.org/information/indexinformation.html#diet

http://www.speechville.com

Since I receive lots of calls about this -I wanted to list the most

common changes in an apraxic or other speech disordered child on

EFAs from what I've read and heard and seen.

1. Increase in babbling or attempts at sounds.

2. Increase in imitation.

Changes also can be looked for in (what you see as positive or

negative)

sleep

attention

appetite

focus

behavior

stools

Next will come a breakthrough of something you were probably working

on for a bit -so you will be excited but will think " Well -I don't

want to get my hopes up we were working on that for awhile now -

maybe it's just a coincidence " However after the second or third

surge in a short period of time -and then another - you are pretty

sure things are different and it's at this point the professionals

and the rest of the family and your friends are noticing it too -

maybe about two to three weeks now.

OK -the next stage is pure elation and hope -you see the light and

no longer feel as desperate and want to share this new information

with everyone and anyone. As the months go by and your child

continues to progress at a much more rapid rate -you may even start

to doubt the original diagnosis -especially if you started EFA

supplementation at two -and perhaps the SLP that diagnosed the

apraxia who also was at first excited is starting to second guess if

the original diagnosis was correct as well.

Unless you have to stop the ProEFA (or other Essential Fatty Acids)

and literally have the chance to see the regression of acquired

speech and language skills, attempts, and changes in behavior like

we did with Tanner (and/or have a chance to again witness the second

surge when your child is put back on the EFAs) -that doubt will

probably remain somewhere in your mind and in others around your

child. So the " I told you that he would start talking when he was

ready " comments should be expected of course.

Up to this point is understandable to me -it's the point after this

that is confusing to me, and perhaps not the best stage for our

children and for raising awareness or having research done to find

out what is happening to our children and why. Perhaps because we

have truly hit a paradigm shift...

As Dr. Agin states the EFAs actually appear to be in some

ways " curing " the apraxic child -even those diagnosed with severe

oral and verbal apraxia, hypotonia, sensory and behavioral issues.

Especially those started at younger ages.

The child on ProEFA or some other EFA formula's like it no longer

fits the criteria of the classic definition of apraxia -and yet

doesn't fit the classic perception of what a late talker is either...

Some of the parents become more focused on other everyday activities

with their child and start to drift away from the support sources.

Problem with this attitude is that unless your child is really up to

speed on all aspects of speech and language, the support sources

that helped in the beginning will still benefit your child today.

ProEFA alone is not the only answer and until we know how and why it

works (or why in a handful of children it doesn't) we can't improve

on it "

Know there is lots of information here -but if you have to learn

just one thing from all of this it's right up on top -there is

always hope!

=====

[Guest guest]

/message/42378

Hi :

You may have already read this archive. Above is a very long archive

about ProEFA and formulas, and webpage addresses where you can find

more information on EFA's. On the Nordic Naturals webpage there

is a chart for finding out dosage for children based on their

weight.

Tina

>

> Hi,

>

> I tried going back through all daily digest for information about

fish

> oil. I couldn't find THE email I was looking for.

>

> I am wondering if someone can please give me some information.

Are

> DHA and EPAs the same? I just peaked at Nordis naturals website

and my

> eyes are just too tired and my brain is just not comprehending

it!!!

>

> We have a 4 year old and 7 year old. I see that they have Children

> DHA..

> I guess what I am wondering is what does everyone use.

>

> THANKS so much!

> tracy

>

[Guest guest]

>

> you can buy concentrated epa/dha but they typically are made with

> specific formmulated ratio's to treat specific issues. such as a

> 60/10 or 30/50 ect.... they are expensive and you can find them.

did

> the practitioner identify what ratio you are to have? if not, then

> why not just take extra cod liver oil to equal the amount of

epa/dha

> you are looking for.

>

Yeah, thanks.

He suggested an equal ratio and not necessarily CLO, but fish oil. I

am looking for something with higher levels for the sake of

efficiency, but yes I may just as well take more than one dose to get

the desired range.

Ideally I'd like a capsule form. I'll keep looking, as you said I can

find them..

[Guest guest]

,

> He suggested an equal ratio and not necessarily CLO, but fish oil. I

> am looking for something with higher levels for the sake of

> efficiency, but yes I may just as well take more than one dose to get

> the desired range.

Cod liver oil would be preferable because it has the nutrients

necessary to protect the EPA and DHA in cell membranes, which requires

both vitamins A and E, not just E. Omega-3's can be dangerous without

vitamin A; Vitamin A can be dangerous without vitamin D; Vitamin D can

be dangerous without vitamin A; put them all together and you're fine.

Chris

--

Dioxins in Animal Foods:

A Case For Vegetarianism?

Find Out the Truth:

http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxins/dioxins.html

[Guest guest]

>

>Cod liver oil would be preferable because it has the nutrients

>necessary to protect the EPA and DHA in cell membranes, which requires

>both vitamins A and E, not just E.

Wow...do you have a citation Chris? I'd love to post this absolutely

essential bit of info to some of my lists where fish oil is, IMO, wantonly

recommended without any mention of vit. A. But I'll need some citations for

it to be believed.

Can I also have permission to quote this post verbatim? It's succintness is

perfect.

Suze

[Guest guest]

On 2/4/06, Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...> wrote:

> >

> >Cod liver oil would be preferable because it has the nutrients

> >necessary to protect the EPA and DHA in cell membranes, which requires

> >both vitamins A and E, not just E.

>

> Wow...do you have a citation Chris? I'd love to post this absolutely

> essential bit of info to some of my lists where fish oil is, IMO, wantonly

> recommended without any mention of vit. A. But I'll need some citations for

> it to be believed.

>

> Can I also have permission to quote this post verbatim? It's succintness is

> perfect.

Suze,

I'm basing this on everything we've already discussed. I've already

provided citations that various PUFA oils, whether omega-3 or omega-6,

long-chain or short-chain, increase peroxides with sufficient E, but

that A-rich oils do not. You likewise said that the fish oil

studies that woman sent you accounted for vitamin E when they found an

increase in oxdation. I still haven't had a chance to get the few

studies showing contrary effects for fish oils, unfortunately. I

would have got them Friday but by the time I was driving home from my

class I was slipping into delerium from this sickness I appear to

already be bouncing.

Chris

--

Dioxins in Animal Foods:

A Case For Vegetarianism?

Find Out the Truth:

http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxins/dioxins.html

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info Chris.

It's always so hard to tell what is best thing to take. I'll just take

a bit more of the Blue Ice CLO that I have and that should come closer

to the recommended range.