Re:Why is paralyzed?

[Guest guest]

Let us be careful regarding this health problem. I have been thinking about

this case, because it has been about 4 years since I saw these two girls. The

health history taken by me and Dr. are on record in Dr. 's

office. As I recall there is also a good probability that these two girls were

exposed to polluted waters (ponds/lakes?) near their home. At the time that I

saw these girls we were unable to ascertain the nature of this water pollution.

Not only were the exposed to microbial growth (Bacteria and Molds) in their

home, there is also a good probability of other toxins in the polluted waters in

their play environment. Thus. the toxic effects of both microgial growth and

other toxins must be considered. was the worst of the two, while Jaci

also had evidence of neurological damage. I am not trying to minimize the

microbial exposure, but we must also recognize other potential interactions. I

do believe a consultation with Dr. Gray is a good idea.

Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 530--644-6035

Cell - 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

530-644-6035 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

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Thank you in advance for your compliance.

[Guest guest]

Not only that but 's Uncle Mike informed me that has also

tested positive to bartonella, mycoplasma, and HHV-6 and her Bowen

QRIBb test for Lyme disease was the highest at 1:128. So there are

many factors concerning here.

V

>

> Let us be careful regarding this health problem. I have been

thinking about this case, because it has been about 4 years since I

saw these two girls.

[Guest guest]

Dr.Thrasher & ,

Thanks for that info. Mike is also the one I have been speaking with.

KC

>

> Let us be careful regarding this health problem. I have been

thinking about this case, because it has been about 4 years since I

saw these two girls. The health history taken by me and Dr.

are on record in Dr. 's office. As I recall there

is also a good probability that these two girls were exposed to

polluted waters (ponds/lakes?) near their home. At the time that I

saw these girls we were unable to ascertain the nature of this water

pollution. Not only were the exposed to microbial growth (Bacteria

and Molds) in their home, there is also a good probability of other

toxins in the polluted waters in their play environment. Thus. the

toxic effects of both microgial growth and other toxins must be

considered. was the worst of the two, while Jaci also had

evidence of neurological damage. I am not trying to minimize the

microbial exposure, but we must also recognize other potential

interactions. I do believe a consultation with Dr. Gray is a good

idea.

>

> Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.

> Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

> www.drthrasher.org

> toxicologist1@...

> Off: 530--644-6035

> Cell - 575-937-1150

>

>

> L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

> Trauma Specialist

> sandracrawley@...

> 530-644-6035 - Off

> 775-309-3994 - Cell

>

>

>

>

> This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be

considered privileged and confidential. The forwarding or

redistribution of this message (and any attachments) without my

prior written consent is strictly prohibited and may violate privacy

laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been served,

please destroy the original message contents. If you have received

this message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender

of the miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies

you have printed. Thank you in advance for your compliance.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dr. Thrasher,

I have a question. I understand your post that other environmental exposures

could affect these girls, however, their story did mention they went to MAYO.

I, too, went to MAYO and the neurologists did just about every type of toxic

exposure test except mold. (Unless there is another political taboo exposure).

Do you think the water pollution should show up in some of the blood test?

I believe mold cold do this because my body was shutting down before I fled my

home. However, I, too, am not trying to state that mold is the reason.

Puzzling thing is with twins, the genetic make up is so similar, I wonder why

only one was affected?

I wonder, have these girls been to the renowned Barrow Clinic?

www.thebarrow.org

> From: Jack Thrasher, Ph.D. <toxicologist1@...>

> Subject: [] Re:Why is paralyzed?

>

> Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 9:17 AM

> Let us be careful regarding this health problem. I have

> been thinking about this case, because it has been about 4

> years since I saw these two girls. The health history taken

> by me and Dr. are on record in Dr. 's

> office. As I recall there is also a good probability that

> these two girls were exposed to polluted waters

> (ponds/lakes?) near their home. At the time that I saw

> these girls we were unable to ascertain the nature of this

> water pollution. Not only were the exposed to microbial

> growth (Bacteria and Molds) in their home, there is also a

> good probability of other toxins in the polluted waters in

> their play environment. Thus. the toxic effects of both

> microgial growth and other toxins must be considered.

> was the worst of the two, while Jaci also had evidence of

> neurological damage. I am not trying to minimize the

> microbial exposure, but we must also recognize other

> potential interactions. I do believe a consultation with

> Dr. Gray is a good idea.

>

> Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.

> Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

> www.drthrasher.org

> toxicologist1@...

> Off: 530--644-6035

> Cell - 575-937-1150

>

>

> L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

> Trauma Specialist

> sandracrawley@...

> 530-644-6035 - Off

> 775-309-3994 - Cell

>

>

>

>

> This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be

> considered privileged and confidential. The forwarding or

> redistribution of this message (and any attachments) without

> my prior written consent is strictly prohibited and may

> violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this

> message has been served, please destroy the original message

> contents. If you have received this message in error, please

> reply immediately to advise the sender of the

> miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies

> you have printed. Thank you in advance for your compliance.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Have they contacted the Barrow Institute in Phoenix???

www.thebarrow.org

This place is worth a look at.

>

> Thanks for that info. Mike is also the one I have been speaking with.

> KC

[Guest guest]

whats the barrow institute?

Have they contacted the Barrow Institute in Phoenix???

www.thebarrow. org

This place is worth a look at.

[Guest guest]

Here's the website.

www.thebarrow. org

>

> Have they contacted the Barrow Institute in Phoenix???

>

> www.thebarrow. org

>

> This place is worth a look at.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks.  I sent your suggestion to the family.

________________________________

From: semco_semco_semco <semco_semco_semco@...>

Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 7:24:15 PM

Subject: [] Re:Why is paralyzed?

Have they contacted the Barrow Institute in Phoenix???

www.thebarrow. org

This place is worth a look at.

[Guest guest]

Yes, I was in shut-down before I left a stachybotrys exposure as well.

I had progressed from actively healthy to head-bobbling, drooling,

and unable to bathe myself. There was a profound disconnect between

what my brain was signalling and what my body was responding to.

Chronic mycotoxin exposure is capable of this.

>

> Dr. Thrasher,

>

> I have a question. I understand your post that other environmental

exposures could affect these girls, however, their story did mention

they went to MAYO. I, too, went to MAYO and the neurologists did just

about every type of toxic exposure test except mold. (Unless there is

another political taboo exposure).

[Guest guest]

The Mayo clinic did every test for toxins from water damaged buidling

EXCEPT for mold??

>

> Dr. Thrasher,

>

> I have a question. I understand your post that other environmental

exposures could affect these girls, however, their story did mention

they went to MAYO. I, too, went to MAYO and the neurologists did just

about every type of toxic exposure test except mold. (Unless there is

another political taboo exposure).

[Guest guest]

Thank you. I have passed along your comments to 's family. (I am not

including the names of any Sickbuildings members when I pass the suggestions to

the family.)

________________________________

From: khalyal <khalyal@...>

Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 2:53:55 PM

Subject: [] Re:Why is paralyzed?

Yes, I was in shut-down before I left a stachybotrys exposure as well.

I had progressed from actively healthy to head-bobbling, drooling,

and unable to bathe myself.

[Guest guest]

This isn't a surprise about Mayo Clinic. The insurance industry has been using

their wealth to " shut up " everyone about toxic mold, so even the organizations

(like Mayo) who can and should help--won't help. Keep in mind that the

insurance industry is following the same " play book " that the tobacco companies

used----deny, deny, deny and pay lots of money to their so-called experts to

repeat those denials in court.

Another example similar to the Mayo Clinic one relates to a family who went to

National Jewish Medical Center in Denver, Colorado. During the appointment and

testing, the doctor was 100% in support of the family and was very clear about

the dangers of toxic mold. A few weeks later when the actual report was

received by the family, the doctor had changed his tune. It's well known that

Clorox is a big contributor to National Jewish, and Clorox has a big stake in

the toxic mold situation.

________________________________

From: barb1283 <barb1283@...>

Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 3:27:15 PM

Subject: [] Re:Why is paralyzed?

The Mayo clinic did every test for toxins from water damaged buidling

EXCEPT for mold??

[Guest guest]

They did all types of toxin testing, I don't know which was related water

damaged

buildings, probably none. It would lead to mold. MAYO does NOT treat

environmental

medicine... PERIOD.

They do not test for mold toxins. They do not treat mold exposed patients.

PERIOD.

>

> The Mayo clinic did every test for toxins from water damaged buidling

> EXCEPT for mold??

[Guest guest]

Has anyone adviced them about possable chemical's, perfumes, laundry

soap's, exc. that may be possably contributing to her illness as

something to consider trying to avoid and see if it helps any?

my throat often trys to close up when i get around things like this.

just wondering because I can see how if in a constant state of being

very ill one might not realize or know how to explain that certain

smells might be bothering them. it may help and would be worth trying

to see if any relief comes from ridding the house of all scented things.

shampoo's, soap's, candles, laundy soap's exc. to see if it helps.

--- In , <brianc8452@...>

wrote:

>

> Thank you. I have passed along your comments to 's family. (I

am not including the names of any Sickbuildings members when I pass the

suggestions to the family.)

> ________________________________

> From: khalyal <khalyal@...>

>

> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 2:53:55 PM

> Subject: [] Re:Why is paralyzed?

>

>

> Yes, I was in shut-down before I left a stachybotrys exposure as well.

> I had progressed from actively healthy to head-bobbling, drooling,

> and unable to bathe myself.

>

[Guest guest]

I bring this up because I have been in situations where I couldn't get

away quickly from what was causeing a chemical reaction and after

awhile with some exposures the caughing stops but the airways remain

closed up and the felling of unwellness and weakness continues and gets

worse. a child in a constant invironment filled with this smells and

haveing chemical sensitivitys would be fellong very bad all the time,

maybe just from the blankets and sheets on her bed washed in perfumed

laundry soaps. someone comes in with perfume on and she may caugh some

more than it may stop again, but it adds to her felling of unwellness.

a mold case of chemical sensitivity may not cause as bad of brain

effects and if it was a very gradual happening the brain effects might

not be realized. from my experience in my first home I fell strongly

that certain exposures can and do cause spinal infections and damage to

to nerves and spine and may be so sneaky about brain effects that you

might not realize that you are not thinking the greatest. I would be

welling to try anything and I think this would be amoung things I'd try

rather I really understood it or not. I think anyone thats sick from

anything would do better with very freah clean air.

--- In , <brianc8452@...>

wrote:

>

> Thank you. I have passed along your comments to 's family. (I

am not including the names of any Sickbuildings members when I pass the

suggestions to the family.)

> ________________________________

> From: khalyal <khalyal@...>

>

> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 2:53:55 PM

> Subject: [] Re:Why is paralyzed?

>

>

> Yes, I was in shut-down before I left a stachybotrys exposure as well.

> I had progressed from actively healthy to head-bobbling, drooling,

> and unable to bathe myself.

>

[Guest guest]

To All: You have missed my point. Secondly, toxins in general, have half-lives

in the circulation. All of the tests on were done many months following

exposure. Thus, if blood or urine tests were done for toxins they would have

been missed. Also, according to the family no testing was done on the

environment in which the girls played, i.e. ponds and lakes. Also, no air

testing was done with respect to toxins in the outdoor air. Thus, I caution all

to not point fingers at the MOLD and BACTTERIA and their by -products that are

present in water damaged environments until all data are present. I dscussed

the potential environmental problems with the girl's parents when the saw Dr.

. I suggest that you become familiar with the problems created by

exposure to pesticides, aromatic solvents, chlorinated solvens, hydrogen

suflide, and the myriad of other chemicals that maybe present in such an

environment in which these girls were raised and played. I am not denying the

potential neurological problems caused by mycotoxins, but in this case we must

be cautious and be aware of the enviornment surrounding these girls in addition

to the mold.

I will give you another example. Kaiser Hospital in Downey, California was

constucted on an EPA priority site. The land originally was owned by JPL. The

land underwent some remediation, but still contains toxins from JPL activity.

The building also has mold. Workers in the building have become ill. Now you

tell me, which has made the the occupants ill: Mold, bacteria and their

by-products, the JPL toxins or both? Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.

Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 530--644-6035

Cell - 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

530-644-6035 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this message

(and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly prohibited

and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been

served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have received this

message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of the

miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you have printed.

Thank you in advance for your compliance.

[Guest guest]

I can see this makes figuring out what did damage difficult, if not

impossible in some circumstances as I can see situations in which there

are a great number of contaminates and if you measured each one, none

may raise concern but when you put them all together, you have a high

percent of air being breathed in that is " unhealthy " and that brings

the percent of healthy air very low, so a combination of things would

be the hardest to resolve, which brings to mind the other subject

discussed here often of leaving or not leaving some place. If you

realize it is the environment, as you feel better elsewhere and done a

reasonable search to find source and not been able to, moving may be

the only answer.

>

> To All: You have missed my point.

[Guest guest]

I don't think everyone has missed your point. I pointed to a neurological

institute that frankly, does not deal with mold related problems. It deals with

difficult neurological problems and diagnosis.

What, in your opinion, do you think the family wants? Sympathy, or solutions?

Obvously a group cannot give solutions we are not doctors.

--- In , " Jack Thrasher, Ph.D. " <toxicologist1@...>

wrote:

>

> To All: You have missed my point.

[Guest guest]

Whats sad is some of the best research for fungal has come from the Mayo!

K

semco_semco_semco <semco_semco_semco@...> wrote:

They did all types of toxin testing, I don't know which was related water

damaged

buildings, probably none. It would lead to mold. MAYO does NOT treat

environmental

medicine... PERIOD.

They do not test for mold toxins. They do not treat mold exposed patients.

PERIOD.

>

> The Mayo clinic did every test for toxins from water damaged buidling

> EXCEPT for mold??

[Guest guest]

Seems like it might be a little to late to prove what all caused the

illness. so all we can offer is things to try that might help.

I dont think anyone is trying to blame it all on mold, why would

they? I don't think anyone here is stupied about other types of toxin

exposures either.

>

> To All: You have missed my point. Secondly, toxins in general,

have half-lives in the circulation. All of the tests on were

done many months following exposure. Thus, if blood or urine tests

were done for toxins they would have been missed. Also, according to

the family no testing was done on the environment in which the girls

played, i.e. ponds and lakes. Also, no air testing was done with

respect to toxins in the outdoor air. Thus, I caution all to not

point fingers at the MOLD and BACTTERIA and their by -products that

are present in water damaged environments until all data are

present. I dscussed the potential environmental problems with the

girl's parents when the saw Dr. . I suggest that you become

familiar with the problems created by exposure to pesticides,

aromatic solvents, chlorinated solvens, hydrogen suflide, and the

myriad of other chemicals that maybe present in such an environment

in which these girls were raised and played. I am not denying the

potential neurological problems caused by mycotoxins, but in this

case we must be cautious and be aware of the enviornment surrounding

these girls in addition to the mold.

>

> I will give you another example. Kaiser Hospital in Downey,

California was constucted on an EPA priority site. The land

originally was owned by JPL. The land underwent some remediation,

but still contains toxins from JPL activity. The building also has

mold. Workers in the building have become ill. Now you tell me,

which has made the the occupants ill: Mold, bacteria and their by-

products, the JPL toxins or both? Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.

>

>

> Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.

> Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

> www.drthrasher.org

> toxicologist1@...

> Off: 530--644-6035

> Cell - 575-937-1150

>

>

> L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

> Trauma Specialist

> sandracrawley@...

> 530-644-6035 - Off

> 775-309-3994 - Cell

>

>

>

>

> This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be

considered privileged and confidential. The forwarding or

redistribution of this message (and any attachments) without my prior

written consent is strictly prohibited and may violate privacy laws.

Once the intended purpose of this message has been served, please

destroy the original message contents. If you have received this

message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of

the miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you

have printed. Thank you in advance for your compliance.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Dr. Thrasher,

This leads to a question that I've been considering for a while. I'm

glad to have a chance to ask it.

There is at least some evidence that not only can satratoxins (toxins

made by stachybotrys) penetrate the blood-brain barrier, but that they

can increase its permeability to other substances.

For instance, here is a paper that investigates this phenomenon:

http://dspace.lib.ttu.edu/bitstream/handle/2346/1269/Karunasena_Enusha_Diss.pdf?\

sequence=1

One hypothesis stemming from this finding seems to be that this

increased permeability allows a variety of other chemicals (including

ordinary household chemicals like air " fresheners " ) to get into the

brain and cause damage, thus leading to Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.

The question that I have for you is: Do other chemicals also increase

the permeability of the blood-brain barrier (rather than just

penetrating it themselves, as it seems may be the case with formaldehyde)?

If not, then it seems that one could make an argument that even if a

variety of chemicals are present in a water-damaged building, there is

something special about stachybotrys mycotoxins that make them more

" causative " for at least certain subsequent problems experienced by

" Sick Building Syndrome " sufferers.

Are there indeed other chemicals that are thought or proven to

increase the permeability of the blood-brain barrier?

If so, which ones are they?

Thanks much!

Best,

>

> I will give you another example. Kaiser Hospital in Downey,

California was constucted on an EPA priority site. The land

originally was owned by JPL. The land underwent some remediation, but

still contains toxins from JPL activity. The building also has mold.

Workers in the building have become ill. Now you tell me, which has

made the the occupants ill: Mold, bacteria and their by-products, the

JPL toxins or both? Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.

>

[Guest guest]

I'm not a doctor but it's my understanding that many toxins or maybe

any toxin in high amounts can cause vasculitis damageing the BBB and

or meningitis also allowing toxins into the brain and also damage the

olfactory bulbs and tracts which aren't classified as a BB but maybe

should be. I know a man who got MCS from exposure to chemicals ar

work, but I dont know what all chemicals he was exposed to.

> >

> > I will give you another example. Kaiser Hospital in Downey,

> California was constucted on an EPA priority site. The land

> originally was owned by JPL. The land underwent some remediation,

but

> still contains toxins from JPL activity. The building also has

mold.

> Workers in the building have become ill. Now you tell me, which

has

> made the the occupants ill: Mold, bacteria and their by-products,

the

> JPL toxins or both? Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

--- In , " slayadragon " <slayadragon@...>

wrote:

> Are there indeed other chemicals that are thought or proven to

> increase the permeability of the blood-brain barrier?

--------------------------------------

Hi ,

The causation of brain injury by chemicals is nothing new to science.

It is quite well documented and independent of mold sciences.

Remember the cocktail effect, in which simultaneous exposure to

chemicals leads to synergistic effects (not just additive). Chemicals

poison not just through direct damage to organs and tissues, but also

in the way they interfere in biochemistry as catalysts. When

depleting the body of needed substances (e.g. nutrient loss as in

solvent induced anemia) or depriving the body of single essential

functions (e.g.acetylcholinesterase from pesticides), you interfere in

multiple body functions causing multisystem failure. On top of that,

you have inflammatory reactions which instigates a lot of disease

conditions over time. I picture this as three distinct layers of damage.

The Gulf War research by Dr. Abou-Donia, demonstrated the ease with

which multiple chemicals penetrate the blood brain barrier with much

greater ease than single chemical exposures. Add physiological stress

(induced exercise and other traumas) and it gets even easier.

In our society, the fact that exposures are generally unknown to

bystanders leads to a lack of proper diagnostic information.

Guesswork is useless after the initiating trauma is well hidden from

the passage of time.

The refusal by public agencies to test marginal or suspect

environments; lack of disclosure requirements for product ingredients;

lack of disclosure in the applications of chemicals by landlords,

employers, farmers (yes, they do not have to disclose the use of many

pesticides to their communities);lack of study regarding the

persistence of chemicals post-application....

A recipe for destruction which is what we are seeing in the illness

statistics and health care cost explosion. So many sick, so few

solutions since the causation goes unreported.

Damaged people will certainly be more vulnerable to the effects of

microbial illness.

Barb Rubin

[Guest guest]

Also not forgetting that bacteria might be involved also as she

tested positive for bartonella and lyme disease. Dr. Jernigan's Hansa

Center might also be a good option since they seem to thrive on

difficult cases others can't figure out. But then I gave 's uncle

Mike information on that.

http://www.hansacenter.com/

V

>

> I can see this makes figuring out what did damage difficult, if not

> impossible in some circumstances as I can see situations in which

there

> are a great number of contaminates and if you measured each one,

none

[Guest guest]

just for the record, I took a look at the barrow institute website, & typed in

the name of my " rare " neurological illness.  its not even on their website!

V.

From: <brianc8452@...>

Subject: Re: [] Re:Why is paralyzed?

Date: Thursday, December 25, 2008, 4:02 PM

Thanks.  I sent your suggestion to the family.

____________ _________ _________ __

From: semco_semco_ semco <semco_semco_ semco (DOT) com>

Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 7:24:15 PM

Subject: [] Re:Why is paralyzed?

Have they contacted the Barrow Institute in Phoenix???

www.thebarrow. org

This place is worth a look at.