Re: A Critique of the ACOEM Statement on Mold

[Guest guest]

Do they have a new statement on mold?

[Guest guest]

No. ACOEM does not have a new statement on mold. It is the same old one

that Dr. Craner writes of. ACOEM refuses to retract it, even though it has now

been outted in the Wall Street Journal for the garbage it is, written about

twice in the International Journal of Occupational and Environmental Health

for the garbage it is, and after a two year review of the Federal GAO,

determining it is garbage. The primary problem is that the authors applied

math to

a single rodent study and claimed these calculattions were science to

conclude that mycotoxins could never reach a threshhold level in the indoor

environment to cause human illness via inhalation. Problem is, people are

exposed

via all routes, we don't know the level before illness occurs, and it has

NEVER, repeat, NEVER been duplicated that one can do this little calculation

and

determine anything one way or the other about human illness from exposure to

mycotoxins as they exist in a water damaged indoor environment.

The good news is, that this garbage has been written about enough that even

the defense attorneys do not bring this up anymore.

AOEC has tried to officially run from ACOEM on this one, but their doctors

still teach this in mold seminars. So even though everyone knows this is

garbage, it is still having an impact on what physicians are being taught...with

OUR tax dollars. AOEC's are government funded.

I feel quite certain, 2009 will be the year to put the lid on this trash

once and for all.

If you have a chance, do read Dr. Craner's paper. It is illuminating to the

politics behind the mold issue and why people have had such a difficult time

getting treatment from US physicians.

Sharon Noonan Kramer

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[Guest guest]

seems to me that sence theres much mpre than a few mold spores

involved in exposures to water damaged buildings and there is no

known cure for the chemical sensitivity and other serious damages

that can accur, that the time has come, past due to focus a a major

class action lawsuit to get our foices heard once and for all.

we can moan and groan about things as they are for another 3 years or

we can do something about it. I think theres proof of certain

identotys and O'm sure we could connect the players involved in

adding to our suffering if we put our heads together. I think many of

us are not stupied to the fact that we have and are being

discriminated againdt for the mere sake of keeping certain pockets

lined. and I dont think it would be that hard to follow the trail of

those lined pockets and piy a major case together.

>

> No. ACOEM does not have a new statement on mold. It is the same

old one

> that Dr. Craner writes of.

[Guest guest]

If I was involved with them in any way, had any kind of standing with them,

I would be screaming bloody murder for them to revise it.

Because they got caught doing something dangerous to people and against the oath

that doctors take, " first do no harm " .

My reading of IOM and GAO and IJOEH is that we are now NOT deciding IF,

we are deciding how and how much. How can they justify this delay in

correcting the record?

I think that any argument that they were a legitimate scientific

organzation would depend on their doing the best they could

to correct the situation, as quickly as they could.

Now, its two years later, and there have been five years of science since 2003,

much of it relevant to people like us.

In my opinion, they arguably have a fiduciary responsibility to do so

because they are basically presenting

themselves as a quasi-public entity.

Didn't somebody determine that they were the place people calling the

government who were sick from mold were sent, people looking for help

were sent to them!?

Also, I remember at some point reading that they had been tasked with

TRACKING MOLD ILLNESS nationally,

but don't apparently. Presumably, how could they track an illness they dispute

the existence of, but the de-facto RESULT of this denial seems to be unjustly

PREVENTING the scientific understanding of what is NOT a decided issue,

or even really an open question.

(Its clear that high levels of mold may and quite possibly do cause

many many diseases and that medium

levels of mold do clearly cause several common diseases like athsma)

In my own experience its also clear that often, IN THE REAL WORLD,

innocent people and their belongings and (rented) homes are often

exposed to very high levels of mold.

This happens arguably *because* the false assertations by

organizations that should know better that mold does not harm people

give irrresonsible buildng owners " cover " to not notify workers a

situation may be dangerous!

They know this.

They are crossing the line by squelching the science and then not

correcting the situation.

Mold is clearly dangerous at high levels,

(like 1M spores per square meter.)

Levels that would not be encountered by non-remediators if

precautions were taken,

but first the person who was managing the situation would need to know

and explain to

the workers that mold was potentially toxic.. and tell them to contain

it and how.

And they would need to wear adequate PPE. (Which might scare them or

prompt them to ask to be paid more.)

Look, I have dealt with this kind of situation and its my experience

that unless they are under a microscope, these kinds of folk will do

anything to avoid taking responsibility.

(to avoid the breaking of their plausible deniability of knowledge)

BTW, 1 million spores per square meter is known to cause

mycotoxicosis. Inhalational testing of those levels has not been done

because " logical " scientists theorize that those levels are not

typically encountered in living situations..

BUT they ARE- because the same idiots who have mold but avoid

remediators do the work themselves - well, actually, usually

they hire illegal immigrants and poor people to do the contracting

work of replacing mold damaged materials WITHOUT ANY NOTIFICATION AT

ALL.

Without any protection of other people in the building. Why? because

protecting people means you can no longer deny that there might be

mold or don't know that its dangerous. That means 1 million spores per

square meter..

Thats what people's homes get exposed to during the day while they are at work.

What they can't see wont hurt them, right?

Thanks to ACOEM crooks have an alibi. Thats the real world, people.

They don't do anything to contain anything.

They crack into walls based on the assertation that

" there is no law against mold " SO THEREFORE

by that logic " its harmless "

(LOGIC CREDIT: THANKS TO ACOEM.)

..

On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 7:38 AM, <snk1955@...> wrote:

> No. ACOEM does not have a new statement on mold.