Passing Privilege…

[Guest guest]

This reminds me of an event that happened at a SF con a year ago.

I've mentioned a friend of mine before, the therapist who specialized in

gifted/something else kids. many who are Aspie, who refuses to see her own AS.

This sF con has a lot of lifestyle panels, she was leading one on Asperger's. I

sat in because I love to hear her speak.

I have learned to pass so well that most people have no clue that I'm Aspie. I

often disclose when I feel it might help the other person feel better about

themselves or their kids. My feeling is, if I could learn to do well, you don't

have to feel hopeless.

Anyway, in the audience at my friend's panel was a woman I can only describe as

a militant Aspie. She was constantly interrupting, making demands that the NT

world had to unconditionally accept her, declaring that the world had to change

to fit her needs, making blanket statements about all people with AS ...

obnoxiousness can't be excused.

My friend used every bit of tact she had to calm this woman down, and did manage

to get through the entire presentation. But afterwards, she mentioned there were

several times she wanted to " out " me, to help show the militant that it's

possible to be Aspie and still find a place in the NT world. I had been thinking

about speaking up, but never figured out the right time/way to do so.

I let my friend know she can out me any time.

--Liz

[Guest guest]

> Anyway, in the audience at my friend's panel was a woman I can only describe

as a militant Aspie. She was constantly interrupting, making demands that the NT

world had to unconditionally accept her, declaring that the world had to change

to fit her needs, making blanket statements about all people with AS ...

obnoxiousness can't be excused.

Ah, but it can and often is. This person is only celebrating her neurodiversity

and should not be required to conform to NT social norms because she is already

perfect, just as she is. <tongue firmly in cheek>

Unfortunately, I've met a lot of folks like this within the AS community.

Militant, angry, bitter, with a chip on their shoulder a mile wide, and inviting

rejection at every turn. Thoroughly obnoxious individuals without a clue who

are absolutely convinced of their Rightness, who are inclined to argue every

little thing, strongly asserting opinions that are anything but informed.

The online variety of these folks can be blocked. The F2F version must be

endured.

Best,

~CJ

[Guest guest]

> Unfortunately, I've met a lot of folks like this within the AS community.

Militant, angry, bitter, with a chip on their shoulder a mile wide, and inviting

rejection at every turn. Thoroughly obnoxious individuals without a clue who

are absolutely convinced of their Rightness, who are inclined to argue every

little thing, strongly asserting opinions that are anything but informed.

>

> The online variety of these folks can be blocked. The F2F version must be

endured.

Hi CJ,

As we know, some of them spent their childhood and a significant part of their

adulthood being scorned and bullied, partly brought on by their own off-the-wall

behaviors (though that still does not make it right to bully them.)

Then they learn they have AS and finally, they feel they have validation and a

community. For many of us, learning about AS opens a door to new understanding,

but for some, it simply legitimizes behaviors (and it's important to stress

" behaviors " ) that have nothing to do with AS and everything to do with

maladaptive life patterns. Unfortunately, the same kind of alienating behaviors

that caused them social difficulty are now the ones they wear as a badge of

pride. They confuse assertiveness (standing one's ground) with violating others

sensibilities and boundaries - over and over again. " That's the way I am, " they

now think. " Take it or leave it. " And sadly, a great number of others are going

to leave it.

I have met wonderful AS people in cyberspace and I know a few adults in real

time who, like me, feel they are somewhere on the spectrum. I have only ever met

one diagnosed adult face to face though. That was nine years ago. I'm sorry to

say, that experience put me off wanting to meet another one face to face for a

very long time.

She was once a member of this list back on the FEAT server days. She alienated

many on the list, not because she attacked members but because she came across

as a very disturbed person. You could not *tell* her how she was coming across

though. One member (another AS) finally did take her to task, and boom, she left

the list, which, frankly, was a relief all around.

In these parts, your AS & co-morbid conditions have to be profoundly

debilitating before you can get a dx. And though the woman's dx was AS, she was

much deeper into the spectrum, probably Kanner's type verbal autistic. Not that

that in and of itself would have made her the way she was. Her life had many

layers of complication which didn't help. She had lived her life almost as a

street person, and her closest friends were mentally ill street people, and this

is where she would have gained most of her social learning, which also didn't

help.

She would never knowingly offend people, but the poor woman would often say

things that were unsettling to the point of being frightening. One would be

tempted to ask, " are you serious?! " but you did not want to know, because she

probably was. She was unemployable due to her social deficits, even though she

was very smart, hard-working, meticulous and scrupulously honest. That is such a

shame. I thought of her recently when I watched to the video had posted of

Ari Ne'man, the part where he was addressing the need to harness the skills of

unemployed autistic workers.

Unfortunately, you have no opportunity to tell people like her the things that

could help them. They are so hypervigilant towards anything that smacks of

criticism that they equate it with an attack on the very essence of their being.

So they go on blithely offending and alienating, being shunned, and destined to

never know why. I found a blog on accepting constructive criticism and if I ever

find it again, I'll post it. Both AS and NS struggle with this at times.

- Helen

[Guest guest]

CJ

I so agree with you about being caught in the middle and belonging nowhere! Amen

sister!

~

" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal. "

--Albert Camus

Sent from my VZW BlackBerry

Re: Passing Privilege…

> They mentioned “passing privilege”, anyone that can pass for whatever is

perceived to be the status quo or normal has a better time in society of fitting

in and not being the target of discrimination from either society or from their

own group.

I think what needs to be added here is that the passing is done largely

without effort. Those who need to work at passing don't truly have

" passing privilege " .

In most situations, those who have the privilege may actually deny it,

as for them it's just their baseline normal and nothing special. They

may not truly realize that not everyone is extended the same courtesies

in the form of an assumption of credibility (until proven otherwise).

Male (especially white male) privilege is an excellent example of this

phenomenon. It's very common for white men to grouse and moan

dismissively about being referred to (by women, minorities, and

enlightened white men) as privileged when they don't feel privileged at all.

> Do you think “passing privilege” applies to our community? Personally, and

this is just my humble opinion, I think it does and keeps many from disclosing.

Why would you, when you can have the best of both worlds. Disclosing does not

happen once in your lifetime, it happens over and over again with different

results.

> Comments or thoughts?

I would definitely agree that " passing privilege " applies to the

neurodiversity community as well. On both sides of the fence.

For example, I can navigate the NT world without feeling the need to

disclose. For me, disclosure would only create more problems than it

solves. I may occasionally disclose particular traits for which I seek

increased tolerance, yet I never link them to a diagnostic label that

can easily be misunderstood and place me at a disadvantage.

Fortunately, I can fake NT well enough (although it is exhausting) that

I am extended NT " passing privilege " with the rest of the herd, although

the privilege is somewhat compromised by the reality that I cannot live

up to NT expectations for very long periods of time without taking a

break to recharge my batteries. This can be very stressful, as the need

for many breaks can easily position me at the rear of the pack, a major

issue in situations that are highly competitive.

I openly disclose within the neurodiversity community, as there is no

benefit to remaining closeted. Whether I disclose or not, I am often

regarded as a NT " outsider " anyway, so I may as well disclose. For me,

in order to have " passing privilege " within the neurodiversity

community, I feel that I must go out of my way to disclose my Aspie

deficits in order to prove myself as being a True Aspie worthy of

receiving the True Aspie membership card, instead of just another NT

masquerading in AS clothing.

As usual, I feel caught in the middle and belonging nowhere.

Best,

~CJ

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No matter how many mistakes you make or how slow you progress,

you are still way ahead of everyone who isn't trying.

------------------------------------

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like a symphony.

Some are the melody, some are the rhythm, some are the harmony

It all blends together, we are like a symphony, and each part is crucial.

We all contribute to the song of life. "

...Sondra

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[Guest guest]

Helen:

GREAT post. I would only add that one should not count out environmental

elements. We live what we have learned.

I have gone back to school late in life and I wish our K-12 educational system

in the USA was more efficient. Sadly it is not. One needs a license to fish

and do other things, but anyone can be a parent. Being a parent is

fundamentally important, as you help shaped the next generation. Sometimes it

is like rolling dice as life can be a crap shoot. You never really know what

the future will bring or if your decisions at the moment will have lasting

effects.

My daughter was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of three. She was seen by three

professionals in the field and had brain mapping done. They were all wrong.

She either out grew the label or it was the wrong label. I think this is the

greatest dilemma that families face. How do you know that AS is the right

label? You don’t as it is a subjective label. It is a crap shoot for parents

and adults. What if your kid is born intersex? Male or female? What is your

decision as parents? How do you know what sex to make them? Your daughter

loves GI Joe dolls and trains and not Barbie dolls? Is she gay or Trans or just

a right brain thinker? Do you encourage her or teach her girls play with dolls

and not trains?

I think we survive our environment but we carry it with us as baggage sometimes.

Life is a spectrum and variant from everything from left to right. I just

listened to an audio tape from an author who is publishing another book in the

fall. It is titled, “Far from the Tree”, by . Although the audio

tape in the article deals with transgendered folks, the book deals with everyone

with from trans to autism and suggests that diversity is what binds us together.

Does environment make a difference? Do we need to cure these behaviors or

embrace and enhance them? What role should parents or partners play and how do

you really know what path to follow?

Be careful when you roll those dice. There are no right answers, unless you can

read the future.

Just me.

and my 2 cents worth which mean nothing outside of my personal opinion