Re: New and thanks for accepting me

[Guest guest]

Hashimoto’s can present as Graves-like because as the antibodies destroy the thyroid, the thyroid releases massive quantities of hormone into the blood causing it to appear that the thyroid is hyper. In other words, it’s not really Graves, but it causes a false positive on tests for Graves. My TPO of 287 is high and usually high TPO (and/or TG) antibodies is a sign of Hashimotos. What does your doctor say? Mine were at 452 when I was diagnosed. Also, Hashi’s tends to be hereditary. If your daughter has it, it’s possible you have it too and that it was either triggered later in you, or that you’ve had it for quite some time but never got a diagnosis. People can go for decades without getting a proper diagnosis. From: Thyroiditis [mailto:Thyroiditis ] On Behalf Of Betty VSent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 1:12 PMTo: Thyroiditis Subject: New and thanks for accepting me I am 79 and have several autoimmune problems. Recent labs Thyroid Peroxidase AB (Anti - TPO) H 287 (<35)Thyroglobulin AB H 23 (<20)Does this show I have Hashimoto's? Reading I see it is possibly due to the Graves. Is this the correct lab to show Hashimoto's?Thanks for any clarification. My daughter has Hashis which led to cancer. Surgery was successful and she is doing well. Thank youBettyGraves DiseaseAutoimmune diabetes type 1RaynaudsSjorgens

[Guest guest]

Also, if you have one autoimmune disease, you are more likely to develop another because your immune system is already “conditioned” to view your own tissues as the enemy. So it might start out declaring the thyroid a threat then, one day, determine that the melanin-producing cells in the skin (vitiligo), or the hair follicles (alopecia), or multiple organ systems (lupus) are also the enemy. Also, your several autoimmune problems could actually be due to only one or two. Because some autoimmune diseases are hard to pinpoint and many share symptoms. http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/autoimmune-checklist.htm From: Thyroiditis [mailto:Thyroiditis ] On Behalf Of Betty VSent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 1:12 PMTo: Thyroiditis Subject: New and thanks for accepting me I am 79 and have several autoimmune problems. Recent labs Thyroid Peroxidase AB (Anti - TPO) H 287 (<35)Thyroglobulin AB H 23 (<20)Does this show I have Hashimoto's? Reading I see it is possibly due to the Graves. Is this the correct lab to show Hashimoto's?Thanks for any clarification. My daughter has Hashis which led to cancer. Surgery was successful and she is doing well. Thank youBettyGraves DiseaseAutoimmune diabetes type 1RaynaudsSjorgens

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your reply.

I just realized I had not said that I have been diagnosed with

Graves and had RAI. At this point I am assuming that I was

correctly diagnosed with the Graves. So actually having Graves I

want to know if these labs show that I also have Hashimoto's. I

have read posts from others on other forums saying they have both

but since this was before this issue came up with me I have not

questioned any details.

I do not know how much the testing doctor knows about this subject

so past experience says I need to get all the info I can ahead of

time.

There are antibodies that are specific to Graves so that a definite

Graves diagnosis can be made but I have not found an antibody that

is specific for Hashimoto's. However at this point perhaps it makes

no difference whether I have Hashi or not.

Comments appreciated.

Betty

Graves

Diabetes type 1

Sjorgens

Raynauds

Positive SLE

Hashimoto’s

can present as Graves-like because as the antibodies

destroy the thyroid, the thyroid releases massive

quantities of hormone into the blood causing it to

appear that the thyroid is hyper. In other words, it’s

not really Graves, but it causes a false positive on

tests for Graves.

My TPO of 287

is high and usually high TPO (and/or TG) antibodies is

a sign of Hashimotos. What does your doctor say? Mine

were at 452 when I was diagnosed. Also, Hashi’s tends

to be hereditary. If your daughter has it, it’s

possible you have it too and that it was either

triggered later in you, or that you’ve had it for

quite some time but never got a diagnosis.

People can go

for decades without getting a proper diagnosis.

From:

Thyroiditis

[mailto:Thyroiditis ] On Behalf

Of Betty V

Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 1:12 PM

To: Thyroiditis

Subject: New and thanks for

accepting me

I am 79 and have several autoimmune problems.

Recent labs Thyroid Peroxidase AB (Anti - TPO) H

287 (<35)

Thyroglobulin AB H 23 (<20)

Does this show I have Hashimoto's? Reading I see

it is possibly due to the Graves. Is this the

correct lab to show Hashimoto's?

Thanks for any clarification.

My daughter has Hashis which led to cancer.

Surgery was successful and she is doing well.

Thank you

Betty

Graves Disease

Autoimmune diabetes type 1

Raynauds

Sjorgens

_

[Guest guest]

Hi Betty,

Welcome to the group!

Sorry to hear about your daughter and so glad she is doing well now. You sure

have many medical issues to deal with. I have Hashis and I have found a very

clean lifestyle has made a massive difference for the better.

Is your Graves' disease currently active? Are you taking an antithyroid drug,

such as PTU or MMI?

I think the antibodies are not as important as how you are feeling and how your

thyroid is actually functioning. AntiTPO and antiTG antibodies are found in both

Graves' and Hashi patients. They can be also found in some patients with

subclinical hyPOthyroidism.

Please post your thyroid labs, aka TSH, Free T3, Free T4, TSI and TBII. And let

us know how you are feeling and please mention any thyroid related symptoms.

Then maybe we can try to help in answering your question.

To wellness,

~Bj

>

> I am 79 and have several autoimmune problems. Recent labs Thyroid

Peroxidase AB (Anti - TPO) H 287 (<35)

> Thyroglobulin AB H 23 (<20)

>

> Does this show I have Hashimoto's? Reading I see it is possibly due to the

Graves. Is this the correct lab to show Hashimoto's?

>

> Thanks for any clarification.

>

> My daughter has Hashis which led to cancer. Surgery was successful and she is

doing well.

>

> Thank you

> Betty

> Graves Disease

> Autoimmune diabetes type 1

> Raynauds

> Sjorgens

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Betty,

Did the RAI kill your entire thyroid gland? Are you taking thyroid replacement

hormone, such as levothyroxine or a T3-T4 meds? In otherwords are you hyPO now?

RAI does NOT kill the antibodies. Once RAI has taken placce the Graves' TSH

receptor antibodies go on to damage other tissue, usually the eyes and skin.

AntiTPO and antiTG are directed at thyroid tissue, so they will usually increase

and then lessen over time unless there is still tissue present.

Having RAI does NOT stop the autoimmune damage. Do you have TED (thyroid eye

disease)? TSHR Abs(TSH receptor antibodies) will usually develop in patients

after RAI just from the RAI, itself. RAI increases the risk of developing high

antiTPO and/or TSHR Abs or side-effects such as relapse of hypERthyroidism or

thyroid associated ophthalmopathy. Graves' patients therefore require more

frequent evaluation after RAI treatment. Are you getting these followups?

One thing that kills or at least significantly decreass TSHR abs is antithyroid

drug. This is why we chose this treatment for my daughter who has Graves'.

To Wellness,

~Bj

> >

> > Hashimoto's can present as Graves-like because as the antibodies

> > destroy the thyroid, the thyroid releases massive quantities of

> > hormone into the blood causing it to appear that the thyroid is hyper.

> > In other words, it's not really Graves, but it causes a false positive

> > on tests for Graves.

> >

> > My TPO of 287 is high and usually high TPO (and/or TG) antibodies is a

> > sign of Hashimotos. What does your doctor say? Mine were at 452 when I

> > was diagnosed. Also, Hashi's tends to be hereditary. If your daughter

> > has it, it's possible you have it too and that it was either triggered

> > later in you, or that you've had it for quite some time but never got

> > a diagnosis.

> >

> > People can go for decades without getting a proper diagnosis.

> >

> > *From:*Thyroiditis

> > [mailto:Thyroiditis ] *On Behalf Of *Betty V

> > *Sent:* Thursday, June 14, 2012 1:12 PM

> > *To:* Thyroiditis

> > *Subject:* New and thanks for accepting me

> >

> > I am 79 and have several autoimmune problems. Recent labs Thyroid

> > Peroxidase AB (Anti - TPO) H 287 (<35)

> > Thyroglobulin AB H 23 (<20)

> >

> > Does this show I have Hashimoto's? Reading I see it is possibly due to

> > the Graves. Is this the correct lab to show Hashimoto's?

> >

> > Thanks for any clarification.

> >

> > My daughter has Hashis which led to cancer. Surgery was successful and

> > she is doing well.

> >

> > Thank you

> > Betty

> > Graves Disease

> > Autoimmune diabetes type 1

> > Raynauds

> > Sjorgens

> >

> > _

>

[Guest guest]

The TPO and TG antibodies ARE specific to Hashimoto’s. Or, more specifically, they are specific to autoimmune thyroid disease which could present as Grave’s or Hashimoto’s depending on how it affects thyroid function. However one theory is that the antibodies can cause Grave’s (or hyperthyroid symptoms) in the early stages but, as the thyroid becomes more and more damaged, and less able to produce thyroid hormone, the condition becomes Hashimoto’s. Different sides of the same coin. Because, ultimately, both are autoimmune thyroid diseases caused by the same antibodies. So, if you presented to your doctor with hyper symptoms and were tested for the antibodies, you got a diagnosis of Graves. Me, I had extremely low TSH back in 2003. I felt fine but my levels were suppressed with no apparent cause. I had not been diagnosed with any thyroid disease prior to that and was not taking any kind of thyroid treatment. Since I did not have full-on hyper symptoms (or they were so mild as to fly under the radar), and my T3 and T4 numbers were well within normal, the doctor opted to wait and see – despite the fact that I had a family history of thyroid disease AND I was on lithium for six years. I was never tested for the antibodies. Had I been tested, I might have been diagnosed with Grave’s back in 2003. However, over the course of the next nine years I became hypo with very obvious and definite hypo symptoms. During that time I was not under any thyroid treatment and my TSH steadily rose from 0.03 to 3.75 and my T3 and T4 were well within normal. Three different doctors said I was fine and one (my gyno) just shrugged and said I should consult with my GP. A fourth doctor finally tested for the antibodies and, because I was having hypo symptoms, I was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s. My grandmother was treated for an overactive thyroid when she was about the same age I was (30s) when I had the first suppressed TSH test back in 2003. I have no idea if it was Graves because it’s hard to get a straight answer out of her. She was treated for hyper, including a run of radioactive iodine, then put on levothyroxine after the radiation destroyed her thyroid. She only took it for about a year then stopped, not realizing this was going to be a life-long thing. So, long story short, many patients who are diagnosed hyPER end up hyPO either as the result of medical interventions (such as surgery or radiation) that damage the thyroid, or because the thyroid becomes so damaged by the antibodies that it stops functioning optimally.Also, hypo and hyper thyroidism is less about the amount of hormone in your blood, but the amount that actually makes it into your cells. And the TSH test only measures pituitary function, not thyroid blood levels OR cellular levels. There is no test to determine thyroid levels on a cellular level. It’s all based on anectodal evidence like symptoms – which many doctor’s ignore in favor of the stupid TSH test. So, if you have antibodies and your doctor is telling you that those antibodies mean Grave’s, he is partially correct. In your case they do. What they really mean is that you have autoimmune thyroid disease and you could become symptomatic for either depending on the extent of the damage to the thyroid.http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/gene/TPO From: Thyroiditis [mailto:Thyroiditis ] On Behalf Of Betty VanamanSent: Friday, June 15, 2012 2:47 PMTo: Thyroiditis Subject: Re: New and thanks for accepting me Thank you for your reply.I just realized I had not said that I have been diagnosed with Graves and had RAI. At this point I am assuming that I was correctly diagnosed with the Graves. So actually having Graves I want to know if these labs show that I also have Hashimoto's. I have read posts from others on other forums saying they have both but since this was before this issue came up with me I have not questioned any details.I do not know how much the testing doctor knows about this subject so past experience says I need to get all the info I can ahead of time. There are antibodies that are specific to Graves so that a definite Graves diagnosis can be made but I have not found an antibody that is specific for Hashimoto's. However at this point perhaps it makes no difference whether I have Hashi or not. Comments appreciated.BettyGravesDiabetes type 1SjorgensRaynaudsPositive SLE Hashimoto’s can present as Graves-like because as the antibodies destroy the thyroid, the thyroid releases massive quantities of hormone into the blood causing it to appear that the thyroid is hyper. In other words, it’s not really Graves, but it causes a false positive on tests for Graves. My TPO of 287 is high and usually high TPO (and/or TG) antibodies is a sign of Hashimotos. What does your doctor say? Mine were at 452 when I was diagnosed. Also, Hashi’s tends to be hereditary. If your daughter has it, it’s possible you have it too and that it was either triggered later in you, or that you’ve had it for quite some time but never got a diagnosis. People can go for decades without getting a proper diagnosis. From: Thyroiditis [mailto:Thyroiditis ] On Behalf Of Betty VSent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 1:12 PMTo: Thyroiditis Subject: New and thanks for accepting me I am 79 and have several autoimmune problems. Recent labs Thyroid Peroxidase AB (Anti - TPO) H 287 (<35)Thyroglobulin AB H 23 (<20)Does this show I have Hashimoto's? Reading I see it is possibly due to the Graves. Is this the correct lab to show Hashimoto's?Thanks for any clarification. My daughter has Hashis which led to cancer. Surgery was successful and she is doing well. Thank youBettyGraves DiseaseAutoimmune diabetes type 1RaynaudsSjorgens_

[Guest guest]

My GP was treating my hypo thyroid with Synthroid. He was also

treating my husband and he was not having a problem. My labs were

pretty much in range but the T3 wasn't always as it should be. So I

went to another doctor, an internal med doctor specializing in

thyroid with a leaning toward natural healing. She did many labs

and added Cytomel to the Synthroid. My cortisol test came back

elevated and she remarked she had never seen a hypo with elevated

cortisol and dismissed it as testing error. I think she should have

picked up on the Graves potential.

Because of my daughter's Hashi and cancer I had done lots of reading

but always thinking hypo and Hashi. Now I see lots of Graves

symptoms and should have picked up on that in my reading. But

Graves is not mentioned often.

In the meantime I was having what I now know were Graves symptoms.

My resting heart beat was 130. I had lost weight from 144 (slightly

overweight) to 99 (slightly underweight). I had maxidema on my

lower legs. Thankfully, my eye doctor whom I have lots of confidence

in, says no eye involvement. No one paid attention to my heart

except to say that was fast. The Cytomel added 10 pounds to my

weight which put me at a good weight.

Finally I went to a heart doctor. He did labs and they came back

very hyper. I now think I was probably fluctuating between hyper

and hypo it just happened the labs had always been done when I was

hypo. The heart doctor put me on a beta blocker and monitored my

heartbeat for a few days. He said I had to take care of the thyroid

while I still had a heart. Unrelated, I was hospitalized shortly.

While in the hospital the heart doctor continued to monitor my

heart.

The doctors in the hospital were very concerned about the thyroid.

I do not know what tests were done during that time. They wanted me

to see THE Endo immediately. This Endo sees a new patient in about

2-3 months but the hospital doctors got him to see me in about 3

days. He was not happy about that. One doctor told me the Endo has

the bedside manner of a snake and I agree. After I had seen him

about 3 times I thanked him for seeing me so promptly. His manner

had mellowed some. He said the other doctors were right in rushing

things and that it was an emergency. I asked him if he had run the

Trab test, the ones I think are definitive for Graves he said he had

not that if he has any doubt about the diagnosis he does but with me

there was no doubt. I know he did do some test but I don't know

which ones. I was able to get some of his tests but not all of

them. His intent with the RAI was to totally kill my thyroid and if

one treatment didn't do it he would do it again. 6 months after the

RAI he got one normal TSH and T4. In my mind that was inadequate

testing and certainly did not say things had stabilized. He said

see him in a year and gave me a lab slip for TSH and T4. He is the

"go to doctor" in this area. I did not make the apt. for the next

time and have no intention in seeing him again. I'm glad my

daughter is not in this area and she has a good doctor.

My GP referred me to an Endo at a different hospital. That was 6

weeks ago. I called and they said they would call me. No call. So

I went back to the Internal med doctor that had treated me before.

I'm down on doctors right now and want as much info as I can get

before I see this doctor again. If the Endo from the other hospital

calls I don't think I will see him. I bet the internest will put me

back on Cytomel along with the Synthroid.

Sorry to be so long with this. I guess it doesn't matter if I have

Hashimoto's with the Graves or not. My thyroid is messed up. I

talked to a doctor here that treats the antibodies and she said the

meds aren't very satisfactory and when they are not she sends her

patients to the Endo I saw for RAI. That ruled her out as a doctor

for me.

Betty

Different

sides of the same coin. Because, ultimately, both are autoimmune

thyroid diseases caused by the same antibodies.

[Guest guest]

The major problem with autoimmune thyroid disease is that people WILL vacillate between hyper and hypo, especially if the antibodies are actively destroying the thyroid. All of that destroyed tissue releases hormone into the blood and screws things up. That’s why you could “have” Grave’s in one instance and Hashimoto’s in another. If you are hyper now, it could be that you are in a “Grave’s” upswing of the disease. It is also possible that there are other factors affecting you such as adrenal issues which can, and do, also cause weight loss and tachycardia. I’m not saying you don’t have Grave’s but it seems to me that if you are also hypo at times, that Grave’s is not the definitive answer. From: Thyroiditis [mailto:Thyroiditis ] On Behalf Of Betty VanamanSent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 12:42 AMTo: Thyroiditis Subject: Re: New and thanks for accepting me My GP was treating my hypo thyroid with Synthroid. He was also treating my husband and he was not having a problem. My labs were pretty much in range but the T3 wasn't always as it should be. So I went to another doctor, an internal med doctor specializing in thyroid with a leaning toward natural healing. She did many labs and added Cytomel to the Synthroid. My cortisol test came back elevated and she remarked she had never seen a hypo with elevated cortisol and dismissed it as testing error. I think she should have picked up on the Graves potential.Because of my daughter's Hashi and cancer I had done lots of reading but always thinking hypo and Hashi. Now I see lots of Graves symptoms and should have picked up on that in my reading. But Graves is not mentioned often.In the meantime I was having what I now know were Graves symptoms. My resting heart beat was 130. I had lost weight from 144 (slightly overweight) to 99 (slightly underweight). I had maxidema on my lower legs. Thankfully, my eye doctor whom I have lots of confidence in, says no eye involvement. No one paid attention to my heart except to say that was fast. The Cytomel added 10 pounds to my weight which put me at a good weight.Finally I went to a heart doctor. He did labs and they came back very hyper. I now think I was probably fluctuating between hyper and hypo it just happened the labs had always been done when I was hypo. The heart doctor put me on a beta blocker and monitored my heartbeat for a few days. He said I had to take care of the thyroid while I still had a heart. Unrelated, I was hospitalized shortly. While in the hospital the heart doctor continued to monitor my heart. The doctors in the hospital were very concerned about the thyroid. I do not know what tests were done during that time. They wanted me to see THE Endo immediately. This Endo sees a new patient in about 2-3 months but the hospital doctors got him to see me in about 3 days. He was not happy about that. One doctor told me the Endo has the bedside manner of a snake and I agree. After I had seen him about 3 times I thanked him for seeing me so promptly. His manner had mellowed some. He said the other doctors were right in rushing things and that it was an emergency. I asked him if he had run the Trab test, the ones I think are definitive for Graves he said he had not that if he has any doubt about the diagnosis he does but with me there was no doubt. I know he did do some test but I don't know which ones. I was able to get some of his tests but not all of them. His intent with the RAI was to totally kill my thyroid and if one treatment didn't do it he would do it again. 6 months after the RAI he got one normal TSH and T4. In my mind that was inadequate testing and certainly did not say things had stabilized. He said see him in a year and gave me a lab slip for TSH and T4. He is the " go to doctor " in this area. I did not make the apt. for the next time and have no intention in seeing him again. I'm glad my daughter is not in this area and she has a good doctor.My GP referred me to an Endo at a different hospital. That was 6 weeks ago. I called and they said they would call me. No call. So I went back to the Internal med doctor that had treated me before. I'm down on doctors right now and want as much info as I can get before I see this doctor again. If the Endo from the other hospital calls I don't think I will see him. I bet the internest will put me back on Cytomel along with the Synthroid.Sorry to be so long with this. I guess it doesn't matter if I have Hashimoto's with the Graves or not. My thyroid is messed up. I talked to a doctor here that treats the antibodies and she said the meds aren't very satisfactory and when they are not she sends her patients to the Endo I saw for RAI. That ruled her out as a doctor for me.Betty Different sides of the same coin. Because, ultimately, both are autoimmune thyroid diseases caused by the same antibodies.

[Guest guest]

Also, have you looked into natural desiccated thyroid instead of the synthetics? Some people have a lot of success with them. I know that I do. From: Thyroiditis [mailto:Thyroiditis ] On Behalf Of Betty VanamanSent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 12:42 AMTo: Thyroiditis Subject: Re: New and thanks for accepting me My GP was treating my hypo thyroid with Synthroid. He was also treating my husband and he was not having a problem. My labs were pretty much in range but the T3 wasn't always as it should be. So I went to another doctor, an internal med doctor specializing in thyroid with a leaning toward natural healing. She did many labs and added Cytomel to the Synthroid. My cortisol test came back elevated and she remarked she had never seen a hypo with elevated cortisol and dismissed it as testing error. I think she should have picked up on the Graves potential.Because of my daughter's Hashi and cancer I had done lots of reading but always thinking hypo and Hashi. Now I see lots of Graves symptoms and should have picked up on that in my reading. But Graves is not mentioned often.In the meantime I was having what I now know were Graves symptoms. My resting heart beat was 130. I had lost weight from 144 (slightly overweight) to 99 (slightly underweight). I had maxidema on my lower legs. Thankfully, my eye doctor whom I have lots of confidence in, says no eye involvement. No one paid attention to my heart except to say that was fast. The Cytomel added 10 pounds to my weight which put me at a good weight.Finally I went to a heart doctor. He did labs and they came back very hyper. I now think I was probably fluctuating between hyper and hypo it just happened the labs had always been done when I was hypo. The heart doctor put me on a beta blocker and monitored my heartbeat for a few days. He said I had to take care of the thyroid while I still had a heart. Unrelated, I was hospitalized shortly. While in the hospital the heart doctor continued to monitor my heart. The doctors in the hospital were very concerned about the thyroid. I do not know what tests were done during that time. They wanted me to see THE Endo immediately. This Endo sees a new patient in about 2-3 months but the hospital doctors got him to see me in about 3 days. He was not happy about that. One doctor told me the Endo has the bedside manner of a snake and I agree. After I had seen him about 3 times I thanked him for seeing me so promptly. His manner had mellowed some. He said the other doctors were right in rushing things and that it was an emergency. I asked him if he had run the Trab test, the ones I think are definitive for Graves he said he had not that if he has any doubt about the diagnosis he does but with me there was no doubt. I know he did do some test but I don't know which ones. I was able to get some of his tests but not all of them. His intent with the RAI was to totally kill my thyroid and if one treatment didn't do it he would do it again. 6 months after the RAI he got one normal TSH and T4. In my mind that was inadequate testing and certainly did not say things had stabilized. He said see him in a year and gave me a lab slip for TSH and T4. He is the " go to doctor " in this area. I did not make the apt. for the next time and have no intention in seeing him again. I'm glad my daughter is not in this area and she has a good doctor.My GP referred me to an Endo at a different hospital. That was 6 weeks ago. I called and they said they would call me. No call. So I went back to the Internal med doctor that had treated me before. I'm down on doctors right now and want as much info as I can get before I see this doctor again. If the Endo from the other hospital calls I don't think I will see him. I bet the internest will put me back on Cytomel along with the Synthroid.Sorry to be so long with this. I guess it doesn't matter if I have Hashimoto's with the Graves or not. My thyroid is messed up. I talked to a doctor here that treats the antibodies and she said the meds aren't very satisfactory and when they are not she sends her patients to the Endo I saw for RAI. That ruled her out as a doctor for me.Betty Different sides of the same coin. Because, ultimately, both are autoimmune thyroid diseases caused by the same antibodies.

[Guest guest]

No, I have not had proper followup. The Endo that did the RAI got one

(note ONE) almost normal TSH and T4. Then he gave me a lab slip for TSH

and T4 to be done in one year and see him then. I did not make the apt

and won't see him again. I am going back to the doctor that I was

seeing before the RAI and hope for the best. She was the one that did

the labs I posted. She didn't recognize the Graves before, so don't

know what she knows about Graves. I have read all the pros and cons

about the TSHR meds (I think that's the ones, don't have my reference

handy at the moment). It is the meds that treat the Graves antibodies I

am thinking of.

My eye doctor, whom I have great respect for, says he sees no eye

involvement. I did have the myxedema on my lower legs. It cleared

after the RAI.

I hope your daughter is doing well. My daughter had cancer after the

Hashimoto's, had surgery and then RAI. She is doing well. Fortunately

she is in an area where she has a good doctor.

Betty

> Having RAI does NOT stop the autoimmune damage. Do you have TED

> (thyroid eye disease)? TSHR Abs(TSH receptor antibodies) will usually

> develop in patients after RAI just from the RAI, itself. RAI increases

> the risk of developing high antiTPO and/or TSHR Abs or side-effects

> such as relapse of hypERthyroidism or thyroid associated

> ophthalmopathy. Graves' patients therefore require more frequent

> evaluation after RAI treatment. Are you getting these followups?

>

> One thing that kills or at least significantly decreass TSHR abs is

> antithyroid drug. This is why we chose this treatment for my daughter

> who has Graves'.

>

> To Wellness,

> ~Bj

[Guest guest]

To my knowledge, there is no medicine that treats antibodies unless you are talking about immunosuppressing drugs – drugs that essentially shut down the immune system -- like what they use to treat RA and such. From: Thyroiditis [mailto:Thyroiditis ] On Behalf Of Betty VanamanSent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 1:30 PMTo: Thyroiditis Subject: Re: Re: New and thanks for accepting me No, I have not had proper followup. The Endo that did the RAI got one (note ONE) almost normal TSH and T4. Then he gave me a lab slip for TSH and T4 to be done in one year and see him then. I did not make the apt and won't see him again. I am going back to the doctor that I was seeing before the RAI and hope for the best. She was the one that did the labs I posted. She didn't recognize the Graves before, so don't know what she knows about Graves. I have read all the pros and cons about the TSHR meds (I think that's the ones, don't have my reference handy at the moment). It is the meds that treat the Graves antibodies I am thinking of.My eye doctor, whom I have great respect for, says he sees no eye involvement. I did have the myxedema on my lower legs. It cleared after the RAI.I hope your daughter is doing well. My daughter had cancer after the Hashimoto's, had surgery and then RAI. She is doing well. Fortunately she is in an area where she has a good doctor.Betty> Having RAI does NOT stop the autoimmune damage. Do you have TED > (thyroid eye disease)? TSHR Abs(TSH receptor antibodies) will usually > develop in patients after RAI just from the RAI, itself. RAI increases > the risk of developing high antiTPO and/or TSHR Abs or side-effects > such as relapse of hypERthyroidism or thyroid associated > ophthalmopathy. Graves' patients therefore require more frequent > evaluation after RAI treatment. Are you getting these followups?>> One thing that kills or at least significantly decreass TSHR abs is > antithyroid drug. This is why we chose this treatment for my daughter > who has Graves'.>> To Wellness,> ~Bj

[Guest guest]

JJ,Do antibodies themselves (e.g. Thyroid peroxidase or Thyroglobulin) actually destroy the thyroid? Or, indeed, anything at all?I'd be interested to see any evidence that they do.Rod

 

The major problem with autoimmune thyroid disease is that people WILL vacillate between hyper and hypo, especially if the antibodies are actively destroying the thyroid. All of that destroyed tissue releases hormone into the blood and screws things up.

 That’s why you could “have” Grave’s in one instance and Hashimoto’s in another.

 If you are hyper now, it could be that you are in a “Grave’s” upswing of the disease. It is also possible that there are other factors affecting you such as adrenal issues which can, and do, also cause weight loss and tachycardia.

 I’m not saying you don’t have Grave’s but it seems to me that if you are also hypo at times, that Grave’s is not the definitive answer.  

 

[Guest guest]

I think what I need is Cytomel, maybe even just Cytomel for a

while. But I don't see the doctor for almost a month.

And yes I have considered natural but think these other things need

consideration too.

I think Graves was a right diagnosis. Don't know about Hashi.

Betty

Also,

have you looked into natural desiccated thyroid instead of the

synthetics? Some people have a lot of success with them. I know

that I do.

[Guest guest]

I think (don't KNOW) these antibodies do destroy the thyroid. I do KNOW

that antibodies that go against the insulin producing islets in the

pancreas do destroy them. All antibodies do not do equal damage. Again

I THINK the antibodies in Graves disease do more damage than the

antibodies that causes Hashimoto's. Graves problems are not limited to

the thyroid.

Betty

> JJ,

>

> Do antibodies themselves (e.g. Thyroid peroxidase or Thyroglobulin)

> actually destroy the thyroid? Or, indeed, anything at all?

>

> I'd be interested to see any evidence that they do.

>

> Rod

[Guest guest]

Hi JJ,

Hashimoto's Thyroiditis is " lymphocytic thyroid cell infiltration " leading to

thyroid cell destruction, damaging tissue and almost always leading to permanent

loss of function. Hashis is an " itis " type of disease causing inflammation due

to lymphocytes entering the gland directly.

Graves' disease is completely driven by TSHR antibodies binding to TSH

receptors. All people with Graves' have these antibodies, although some assays

may not pick them up. Graves' is known as TSH Receptor autoimmunity.

These two diseases may overlap, but they each cause entirely different affects

on the thyroid. Each disease has hyPO causing effects: in Graves' blocking

TSHRabs causes temporary hypO; in Hashis the lymphocytes cause permanent hypO.

In Hashis when a gland develops too much scar tissue, hormone production ability

is decreased. This destruction continues until the gland is unable to produce

ample levels of thyroid hormones to maintain proper body functioning. That is

NOT what TSH receptor autoimmunity is.

TSH Receptor antibodies do NOT cause any damage to the thyroid gland, they

merely bind to TSH and take over its control. Sadly TSHR Abs can bind to other

tissue, such as, tissues in the eyeballs and beneath the skin and contribute to

the development of exophthalmos (bulging eyes) and pretibial myxedema (skin

thickening on the front of the lower legs).

If a patient has TSHRabs and overlapping lymphocyte damage they will likely see

a decrease in thyroid function over time.

Again, Graves' and Hashis may overlap, but they each cause entirely different

affects on the thyroid.

To wellness,

~Bj

>

>

>

> Hashimoto's can present as Graves-like because as the antibodies destroy the

> thyroid, the thyroid releases massive quantities of hormone into the blood

> causing it to appear that the thyroid is hyper. In other words, it's not

> really Graves, but it causes a false positive on tests for Graves.

>

>

>

> My TPO of 287 is high and usually high TPO (and/or TG) antibodies is a sign

> of Hashimotos. What does your doctor say? Mine were at 452 when I was

> diagnosed. Also, Hashi's tends to be hereditary. If your daughter has it,

> it's possible you have it too and that it was either triggered later in you,

> or that you've had it for quite some time but never got a diagnosis.

>

>

>

> People can go for decades without getting a proper diagnosis.

>

>

>

> From: Thyroiditis [mailto:Thyroiditis ] On

> Behalf Of Betty V

> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 1:12 PM

> To: Thyroiditis

> Subject: New and thanks for accepting me

>

>

>

>

>

> I am 79 and have several autoimmune problems. Recent labs Thyroid Peroxidase

> AB (Anti - TPO) H 287 (<35)

> Thyroglobulin AB H 23 (<20)

>

> Does this show I have Hashimoto's? Reading I see it is possibly due to the

> Graves. Is this the correct lab to show Hashimoto's?

>

> Thanks for any clarification.

>

> My daughter has Hashis which led to cancer. Surgery was successful and she

> is doing well.

>

> Thank you

> Betty

> Graves Disease

> Autoimmune diabetes type 1

> Raynauds

> Sjorgens

>

> _

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Betty,

Hashimoto's Thyroiditis is caused by an autoimmune dysfunction, resulting in a

damaged thyroid. Nearly all patients have highly diffuse lymphocytic

infiltration and inflammation of the thyroid, which includes primarily

thyroid-specific T cells destroying thyroid follicular cells signaling

concentrations of auto-antibodies against one or more of these thyroid antigens.

The production of auto-antibodies such as thyroperoxidase antibodies (antiTPO

abs) and thyroglobulin antibodies (antiTGabs) are created and activated for

complement.

In other words, antiTPOabs are auto-antibodies against the *free* peroxidase

enzyme (antiTGabs are auto-antibodies against the *free* thyroglobulin proteins)

that has gotten *outside* of thyroid cells after damage and inflammation occur

by the Killer T cells, cytokines and macrophage (and even sometimes eosinophils

attack and damage the thyroid cells).

Auto-antibody tests are useful in the diagnosis of thyroid autoimmune disorders

and used to differentiate autoimmune thyroid disease from non-autoimmune

hypothyroidism or goiter; and can also be useful as a diagnostic tool in

deciding whether to treat a patient who has subclinical hypothyroidism.

**The magnitude of the antibody titer does not correlate with the clinical

activity of the disease.**

Although high anti-TPO titers are seen in over 98% of patients with chronic

Hashimoto's thyroiditis and over 80% of Graves' disease patients. Elevated

amounts of these antibodies are also present in other autoimmune disorders, too,

such as pernicious anemia, type I diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, and

others.

The reason you have these antibodies may not be due to thyroiditis or Graves'

but because you have other autoimmune diseases. As a repeat, it is always best

to go by symptoms and actual thyroid function not the antibody count.

I hope this is helpul to you,

~Bj

> > JJ,

> >

> > Do antibodies themselves (e.g. Thyroid peroxidase or Thyroglobulin)

> > actually destroy the thyroid? Or, indeed, anything at all?

> >

> > I'd be interested to see any evidence that they do.

> >

> > Rod

>