Guest guest Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 I recommend to most of my patients that they regularly consume live organic yoghurt, the best ones available round these parts being Yeo Valley and 's Dairy. I reckon if people need something long term, it needs to be food grade! eg hemp oil salad dressing, It makes it easier for the patient, and also avoids pathologising them I think these powders may possibly be useful for a kick start, but suspect not. They may be another money making thing? A friend of a friend was treated Ayurvedically in India and said yoghurt was a major part of the treatment. Sally > > Hi all, > > Just wanted to ask everyone's opinion on this. Someone I know (not a > herbalist) is recommending that every patient he sees takes > probiotics. He is not > recommending the dairy ones that are full of sugar etc but a > powdered form. > I'm just curious as to what the general opinion of the necessity of > this is. > I know that they are absolutely vital for patients who have been on > antibiotics or who have compromised digestion etc, but I never feel > comfortable > with a blanket " prescription " for everyone. I always thought that > if you had a > healthy diet that the gut flora is quite capable of balancing > itself (with > the occasional help) and the less meddling or dependancy on > supplements the > better. Am I wrong? Should everyone be on these? Can long term use > do any > harm? Would appreciate your thoughts. > > Thanks > > Jean > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 I'd agree with Sally. Rather than longterm supplementation for people with reasonably healthy gut who aren't on abx/steroids/OCP, I 'd recommend including fermented foods such as live yoghurt, kefir, sauerkraut, miso etc in diet and learning to manage stress. However I recently read (Holford) that those foods contain just Lactobacillus bulgaricus/sporogenes/casei and Strep. thermophilus, which while having a very beneficial effect on the gutflora through their metabolic products, cannot colonise the gut. They will only hang around for a week or so. The resident strains are Lactobacillus acidoph/salvarius and Bifidobacteria which need to be supplemented. Which would mean that yoghurt would not be sufficient after abx!? Haven't doublechecked this as yet - anybody know more? I think the need for supplementaion may depend on how much a person is looking after their gut, in terms of including fermented foods etc and general lifestyle, e'g' longterm stress. Anybody not willing to adjust their diet or lifstyle may find OTC products the easiest, though definitely not the cheapest option... But I guess most people with that attitude would just go to their health food shop rather than consult a herbalist! Interested to hear more! Sabine Re: probiotics > I recommend to most of my patients that they regularly consume live > organic yoghurt, the best ones available round these parts being Yeo > Valley and 's Dairy. > > I reckon if people need something long term, it needs to be food > grade! eg hemp oil salad dressing, It makes it easier for the > patient, and also avoids pathologising them > > I think these powders may possibly be useful for a kick start, but > suspect not. They may be another money making thing? > > > A friend of a friend was treated Ayurvedically in India and said > yoghurt was a major part of the treatment. > > > Sally > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Not sure, cos I haven't checked the labels recently, but organic yooghurt always used to contain lact ac and bifid Have u heard stuff about kimchi and bird flu? v interesting, downloaded recipe, but too busy at computer...... S > I'd agree with Sally. Rather than longterm supplementation for > people with > reasonably healthy gut who aren't on abx/steroids/OCP, I 'd recommend > including fermented foods such as live yoghurt, kefir, sauerkraut, > miso etc > in diet and learning to manage stress. > > However I recently read (Holford) that those foods contain just > Lactobacillus bulgaricus/sporogenes/casei and Strep. thermophilus, > which > while having a very beneficial effect on the gutflora through their > metabolic products, cannot colonise the gut. They will only hang > around for > a week or so. The resident strains are Lactobacillus acidoph/ > salvarius and > Bifidobacteria which need to be supplemented. Which would mean that > yoghurt > would not be sufficient after abx!? Haven't doublechecked this as > yet - > anybody know more? > > I think the need for supplementaion may depend on how much a person is > looking after their gut, in terms of including fermented foods etc and > general lifestyle, e'g' longterm stress. Anybody not willing to > adjust their > diet or lifstyle may find OTC products the easiest, though > definitely not > the cheapest option... But I guess most people with that attitude > would just > go to their health food shop rather than consult a herbalist! > > Interested to hear more! > Sabine > > Re: probiotics > > > I recommend to most of my patients that they regularly consume live > > organic yoghurt, the best ones available round these parts being Yeo > > Valley and 's Dairy. > > > > I reckon if people need something long term, it needs to be food > > grade! eg hemp oil salad dressing, It makes it easier for the > > patient, and also avoids pathologising them > > > > I think these powders may possibly be useful for a kick start, but > > suspect not. They may be another money making thing? > > > > > > A friend of a friend was treated Ayurvedically in India and said > > yoghurt was a major part of the treatment. > > > > > > Sally > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Excellent book on other ways to get bugs into the gut is Wild Fermentation by Sandor Ellix Katz - ie use/make fermented foods like miso..good bugs help phytoestrogen breakdown into actives. Also always eat (washed) skins of fruit/veg wherever possible/safe. The skins are where the gut bacteria/aerobic yeasts collect. Also, the more acidic the yogurt the more L. acidophilus there must be, no? So more useful for us, given this is our largest population of gut bacteria. Very interesting BBC R4 Case Notes programme on gut flora/probiotics as alternative (much more successful) to Abx in infection control in intensive care - see http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/casenotes_20040406.shtml Best wishes, Laird BSc MNIMH MCPP Medical Herbalist 68 Hurlingham Rd London SW6 3RQ Tel 020 7736 8975 Fax 020 7371 8450 alsl@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Sally, I checked fridge, and Yeo valley yoghurt lists Lactobac. acidoph. and bifidobact on label. Also reread section in Holford (New Optimum Nutrition Bible, p.157) - it's quite ambiguous, he lists all sorts of fermented foods, and then says " mosts of these foods don't contain strains of Lactobacillus or Bifidobacteria that can colonise in the digestive tract " , followed soon by recommending supplements... It looks like yoghurt does contain them (phew!), and (more double checking) likewise kefir, sauerkraut, miso. So what is Holford talking about? interesting article: Probiotic Applications: Pulse and Rotation Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients, Oct, 2001 by Mark A. Brudnak http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_2001_Oct/ai_78900842 (3 pages) Best wishes Sabine Re: probiotics > Not sure, cos I haven't checked the labels recently, > but organic yooghurt always used to contain lact ac and bifid > Have u heard stuff about kimchi and bird flu? v interesting, > downloaded recipe, but too busy at computer...... > S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 sales pitch? S > Sally, I checked fridge, and Yeo valley yoghurt lists Lactobac. > acidoph. and > bifidobact on label. Also reread section in Holford (New Optimum > Nutrition > Bible, p.157) - it's quite ambiguous, he lists all sorts of > fermented foods, > and then says " mosts of these foods don't contain strains of > Lactobacillus > or Bifidobacteria that can colonise in the digestive tract " , > followed soon > by recommending supplements... It looks like yoghurt does contain them > (phew!), and (more double checking) likewise kefir, sauerkraut, > miso. So > what is Holford talking about? > > interesting article: > > Probiotic Applications: Pulse and Rotation > > Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients, Oct, 2001 by Mark A. Brudnak > > http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_2001_Oct/ > ai_78900842 (3 > pages) > > Best wishes > Sabine > > Re: probiotics > > > Not sure, cos I haven't checked the labels recently, > > but organic yooghurt always used to contain lact ac and bifid > > Have u heard stuff about kimchi and bird flu? v interesting, > > downloaded recipe, but too busy at computer...... > > S > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Dear Sally, Please explain: " kimchi and bird flu " : do you mean that there's been some work done to say that the consumption of kimchi will prevent an onslaught of bird flu? Thanks in advance, Kerry Sally Owen wrote: > Not sure, cos I haven't checked the labels recently, > but organic yooghurt always used to contain lact ac and bifid > Have u heard stuff about kimchi and bird flu? v interesting, > downloaded recipe, but too busy at computer...... > S > > > > I'd agree with Sally. Rather than longterm supplementation for > > people with > > reasonably healthy gut who aren't on abx/steroids/OCP, I 'd recommend > > including fermented foods such as live yoghurt, kefir, sauerkraut, > > miso etc > > in diet and learning to manage stress. > > > > However I recently read (Holford) that those foods contain just > > Lactobacillus bulgaricus/sporogenes/casei and Strep. thermophilus, > > which > > while having a very beneficial effect on the gutflora through their > > metabolic products, cannot colonise the gut. They will only hang > > around for > > a week or so. The resident strains are Lactobacillus acidoph/ > > salvarius and > > Bifidobacteria which need to be supplemented. Which would mean that > > yoghurt > > would not be sufficient after abx!? Haven't doublechecked this as > > yet - > > anybody know more? > > > > I think the need for supplementaion may depend on how much a person is > > looking after their gut, in terms of including fermented foods etc and > > general lifestyle, e'g' longterm stress. Anybody not willing to > > adjust their > > diet or lifstyle may find OTC products the easiest, though > > definitely not > > the cheapest option... But I guess most people with that attitude > > would just > > go to their health food shop rather than consult a herbalist! > > > > Interested to hear more! > > Sabine > > > > Re: probiotics > > > > > I recommend to most of my patients that they regularly consume live > > > organic yoghurt, the best ones available round these parts being Yeo > > > Valley and 's Dairy. > > > > > > I reckon if people need something long term, it needs to be food > > > grade! eg hemp oil salad dressing, It makes it easier for the > > > patient, and also avoids pathologising them > > > > > > I think these powders may possibly be useful for a kick start, but > > > suspect not. They may be another money making thing? > > > > > > > > > A friend of a friend was treated Ayurvedically in India and said > > > yoghurt was a major part of the treatment. > > > > > > > > > Sally > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 ace stuff S > Excellent book on other ways to get bugs into the gut is Wild > Fermentation > by Sandor Ellix Katz - ie use/make fermented foods like miso..good > bugs help > phytoestrogen breakdown into actives. > > Also always eat (washed) skins of fruit/veg wherever possible/safe. > The > skins are where the gut bacteria/aerobic yeasts collect. > > Also, the more acidic the yogurt the more L. acidophilus there must > be, no? > So more useful for us, given this is our largest population of gut > bacteria. > > Very interesting BBC R4 Case Notes programme on gut flora/ > probiotics as > alternative (much more successful) to Abx in infection control in > intensive > care - see http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/ > casenotes_20040406.shtml > > Best wishes, > > Laird BSc MNIMH MCPP > Medical Herbalist > > 68 Hurlingham Rd > London SW6 3RQ > Tel 020 7736 8975 > Fax 020 7371 8450 > alsl@... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Hi Kerry, not quite. But it has been suggested that it might raise immunity, apparently some chickens treated with it recovered much better than would be expected. I heard it reported on radio 4 a while back, and have seen it elsewhere too. (Ray says it is just a plot to export Kimchi, but apart from the ferment, it contains ginger and chilli, and vietnamese mothers traditionally insist their children are well supplied when they come to visit! A " supplement " that is considered part of a healthy diet, much like wild foods in Scandinavia) R U coming to conference I hope? S > Dear Sally, > > Please explain: " kimchi and bird flu " : do you mean that there's been > some work done to say that the consumption of kimchi will prevent an > onslaught of bird flu? > > Thanks in advance, > Kerry > > Sally Owen wrote: > > > Not sure, cos I haven't checked the labels recently, > > but organic yooghurt always used to contain lact ac and bifid > > Have u heard stuff about kimchi and bird flu? v interesting, > > downloaded recipe, but too busy at computer...... > > S > > > > > > > I'd agree with Sally. Rather than longterm supplementation for > > > people with > > > reasonably healthy gut who aren't on abx/steroids/OCP, I 'd > recommend > > > including fermented foods such as live yoghurt, kefir, sauerkraut, > > > miso etc > > > in diet and learning to manage stress. > > > > > > However I recently read (Holford) that those foods contain just > > > Lactobacillus bulgaricus/sporogenes/casei and Strep. thermophilus, > > > which > > > while having a very beneficial effect on the gutflora through > their > > > metabolic products, cannot colonise the gut. They will only hang > > > around for > > > a week or so. The resident strains are Lactobacillus acidoph/ > > > salvarius and > > > Bifidobacteria which need to be supplemented. Which would mean > that > > > yoghurt > > > would not be sufficient after abx!? Haven't doublechecked this as > > > yet - > > > anybody know more? > > > > > > I think the need for supplementaion may depend on how much a > person is > > > looking after their gut, in terms of including fermented foods > etc and > > > general lifestyle, e'g' longterm stress. Anybody not willing to > > > adjust their > > > diet or lifstyle may find OTC products the easiest, though > > > definitely not > > > the cheapest option... But I guess most people with that attitude > > > would just > > > go to their health food shop rather than consult a herbalist! > > > > > > Interested to hear more! > > > Sabine > > > > > > Re: probiotics > > > > > > > I recommend to most of my patients that they regularly > consume live > > > > organic yoghurt, the best ones available round these parts > being Yeo > > > > Valley and 's Dairy. > > > > > > > > I reckon if people need something long term, it needs to be food > > > > grade! eg hemp oil salad dressing, It makes it easier for the > > > > patient, and also avoids pathologising them > > > > > > > > I think these powders may possibly be useful for a kick > start, but > > > > suspect not. They may be another money making thing? > > > > > > > > > > > > A friend of a friend was treated Ayurvedically in India and said > > > > yoghurt was a major part of the treatment. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sally > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 Hello and good luck. Always fun starting something new. uses a probiotic called " Multidophilus " powder by Solaray. It is Non-Dairy and Freeze Dried and has to be refrigerated and rounds about 16.00. So far it has really helped him. On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 12:58 PM, If I like you, you'll find out. wrote: Hey group- Just starting out, spoke with a DAN! doctor today who I will be getting my 3 year old Kaelyn in to see in Jan... until them they suggested I start probiotics. She said NOT threelac and to use a kind that was refrigerated.... she DID say the name, which SOUNDED like Threelac, but def was not... What are you guys using... (for background, Kaelyn is on GLUTEN free diet and I am about to try Diflucan) Also, should I not use them together?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 dophilus's are USUALLY milk based, NON dairy doesn't mean milk free, just means it doesn't contain WHOLE milk meaning sugar, whey AND casein, so it can still have 2 of the 3 and say dairy free. so if you are CASIEN free you will have to call on that to confirm it's safty first Recovering from Autism is a marathonNOT a sprint, but FULLY possible!Read more about it on my BLOGs athttp://www.myspace.com/christelkinghttp://foggyrock.com/MyPage/recoveringwisheshttp://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=677063169 Re: PROBIOTICS Hello and good luck. Always fun starting something new. uses a probiotic called "Multidophilus" powder by Solaray. It is Non-Dairy and Freeze Dried and has to be refrigerated and rounds about 16.00. So far it has really helped him. On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 12:58 PM, If I like you, you'll find out. <kaelainne> wrote: Hey group- Just starting out, spoke with a DAN! doctor today who Iwill be getting my 3 year old Kaelyn in to see in Jan... until themthey suggested I start probiotics. She said NOT threelac and to use akind that was refrigerated.... she DID say the name, which SOUNDEDlike Threelac, but def was not...What are you guys using...(for background, Kaelyn is on GLUTEN free diet and I am about to tryDiflucan)Also, should I not use them together?? No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1742 - Release Date: 10/23/2008 3:29 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 thank you. I never read that before. I will have to double check my son's list of supplements and such because he can not have dairy. I appreciate it. dophilus's are USUALLY milk based, NON dairy doesn't mean milk free, just means it doesn't contain WHOLE milk meaning sugar, whey AND casein, so it can still have 2 of the 3 and say dairy free. so if you are CASIEN free you will have to call on that to confirm it's safty first Recovering from Autism is a marathonNOT a sprint, but FULLY possible!Read more about it on my BLOGs athttp://www.myspace.com/christelkinghttp://foggyrock.com/MyPage/recoveringwishes http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=677063169 Re: PROBIOTICS Hello and good luck. Always fun starting something new. uses a probiotic called " Multidophilus " powder by Solaray. It is Non-Dairy and Freeze Dried and has to be refrigerated and rounds about 16.00. So far it has really helped him. On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 12:58 PM, If I like you, you'll find out. wrote: Hey group- Just starting out, spoke with a DAN! doctor today who Iwill be getting my 3 year old Kaelyn in to see in Jan... until themthey suggested I start probiotics. She said NOT threelac and to use akind that was refrigerated.... she DID say the name, which SOUNDEDlike Threelac, but def was not...What are you guys using...(for background, Kaelyn is on GLUTEN free diet and I am about to tryDiflucan)Also, should I not use them together?? No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1742 - Release Date: 10/23/2008 3:29 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 According to TACA Now Beginner Biomedical Treatment for Autism Spectrum Disorder: Probiotics (Acidophilus) – Lactobacillus & Bifidobacteria. Any brand will do to start (be sure that it is casein free). http://tinyurl.com/6bylt9 > > Hey group- Just starting out, spoke with a DAN! doctor today who I > will be getting my 3 year old Kaelyn in to see in Jan... until them > they suggested I start probiotics. She said NOT threelac and to use a > kind that was refrigerated.... she DID say the name, which SOUNDED > like Threelac, but def was not... > What are you guys using... > > (for background, Kaelyn is on GLUTEN free diet and I am about to try > Diflucan) > > Also, should I not use them together?? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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