Re: Estriol

[Guest guest]

Hi Val,

Uzzi Reiss’ new book quotes many sources for estriol and the related studies. He is a believer in it for certain reasons and that it’s safe and effective. He is not tied to Lee’s studies or stuck in the past, as he is still at the forefront of this area, having more patients on record than any other doctor using bio-identicals. His website www.uzzireissmd.com has those references on estriol. He also believes that if it doesn’t work for someone, he is happy to go to estradiol alone or in a compounded way that does work better for the person. He did my blood work and checked for both levels, E-2 and E-3. And he always listens to what is happening to your body.

I think that with this area being relatively new, there is a leap of faith for all of us using them. And the contradictory information will continue for some time to come. While it would be nice to have some definitive studies, I think we can only keep pushing in this type of grass roots movement to get it done.

Nora

Reply-To: <rhythmicliving >

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:53:50 -0700

To: <rhythmicliving >

Subject: Estriol

This is an example of the alternatives' spread of misinformation:

http://www.virginiahopkinstestkits.com/vol4issue1.html#dearreader

Virginia Hopkins writes, " Estriol, on the other hand, is a mild (natural) estrogen that’s primarily used in cream form for vaginal dryness and urinary tract problems in menopausal women. It’s been in common use in Europe for well over a decade, and its safety and effectiveness are well established. "

The truth is that there has been insufficient research to declare that estriol is safe and effective.

Val

[Guest guest]

I cannot find the research

on estriol. Every page I go to is

selling something. That is always

my first alert. Could you give me

some specific page addresses?

Val

From: rhythmicliving

[mailto:rhythmicliving ] On

Behalf Of Nora Rothrock

Hi Val,

His website www.uzzireissmd.com has those references on estriol.

[Guest guest]

I have yet to find any reference to estriol being

" safe. " There are some

references as to its effectiveness, perhaps for helping low estrogen

symptoms. I'm all ears if there is

research as to estriol's effectiveness and safety. Estriol may be just as proliferative as

estradiol and it may or may not help bone density. If Dr. Reiss is touting estriol's

" safety, " he simply is

not current with his research.

This was posted earlier today and is informative. http://www.usask.ca/pharmacy-nutrition/services/read.php?id=11

I was on tri-est for about five months. At the end of that time, my estradiol was

<15 and I was miserable. I was

also on 200 mg compounded P and my P was 26. It is no wonder I was so miserable.

Val

From:

rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On Behalf Of Nora Rothrock

He is a believer in it for certain reasons and that it’s safe and

effective.

[Guest guest]

Hi Val,

Here is the link, it’s under references for his book. The navigation isn’t great, but it’s the menu ‘Condition Treatment Protocol’ then under references for Natural Superwoman. The studies are quoted and he tells people to use them when they go to their own doctors who may not be familiar with the latest information.

http://www.uzzireissmd.com/refs/04.html It’s under Chapter 4: Estrogen – Essence of Woman. There are lots of references for estradiol and estriol as he references them from the information and claims in his book.

Nora

Reply-To: <rhythmicliving >

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:54:38 -0700

To: <rhythmicliving >

Subject: RE: Estriol

I cannot find the research on estriol. Every page I go to is selling something. That is always my first alert. Could you give me some specific page addresses?

Val

From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On Behalf Of Nora Rothrock

Hi Val,

His website www.uzzireissmd.com has those references on estriol.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I didn’t read all the documentation specifically, but I also haven’t read anything that says it’s unsafe. And I do think he is current with his research. He lives and breathes this stuff.

But...tri-est obviously didn’t work for you and it’s fantastic that you found something that did! I think that’s the beauty of understanding our own bodies and finding the right combination for us individually. Lots of people have had great success with bi-est and tri-est. I have just started on tri-est for 10 days a month. We’ll see how my body fares.

Nora

Reply-To: <rhythmicliving >

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:09:39 -0700

To: <rhythmicliving >

Subject: RE: Estriol

I have yet to find any reference to estriol being " safe. " There are some references as to its effectiveness, perhaps for helping low estrogen symptoms. I'm all ears if there is research as to estriol's effectiveness and safety. Estriol may be just as proliferative as estradiol and it may or may not help bone density. If Dr. Reiss is touting estriol's " safety, " he simply is not current with his research.

This was posted earlier today and is informative. http://www.usask.ca/pharmacy-nutrition/services/read.php?id=11 <http://www.usask.ca/pharmacy-nutrition/services/read.php?id=11>

I was on tri-est for about five months. At the end of that time, my estradiol was <15 and I was miserable. I was also on 200 mg compounded P and my P was 26. It is no wonder I was so miserable.

Val

From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On Behalf Of Nora Rothrock

He is a believer in it for certain reasons and that it’s safe and effective.

[Guest guest]

Everything ABOUT hormones is contradictory! This is why none of the

doctors seem to agree on how to treat any symptoms! For instance, I

was bleeding very heavily and more than one gyno reached for the

prescription pad to give me some synthetic form of P that only made

my bleeding WORSE. Then they tell you " well that can happen too " !

What? Bleeding more?? Then why did they give it to me?

THEY are very confused!! And there are a zillion " studies " . Which

ones are we to believe?

- In rhythmicliving , Karima Pijanka

wrote:

>

> For those of you who are more conversant in these matters. Here is

a link to

> a study at the Uof Saskatchewan that talks about estriol being the

major

> form of estrogen in oral BHRT. It is from 2003.

>

> They state ³In the liver, estradiol is converted to estrone and

subsequently

> to estriol.² I thought that this only happens in pregnant women?

That women

> don¹t have a lot of it at any other time because it is manufactured

by the

> placenta. This study talks about estriol and estradiol being

antagonists.

>

> http://www.usask.ca/pharmacy-nutrition/services/read.php?id=11

>

> What is confusing me is the variety of contradictory information in

> conventional sources on hormones, not just BHT, but about them in

general.

>

> Karima

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, a lot of my friends who were freely given the birth control pill

by their doctors, now have breast cancer. Women that didn't smoke

nor did any member of their families, mind you.

>

>

> My prediction is that once the FDA someday accepts bioidentical

> hormones as safe HRT (ok maybe not in my lifetime), that the

smoking

> lawsuits we saw in the 80's and 90's will pale in comparison to the

> lawsuits against big pharma for the problems caused by sythetic

> hormones...because afterall, big pharma drugs are monitored by the

> FDA, who supposedly are trying to keep us from harming ourselves

> (LOL).

>

>

[Guest guest]

Failing to maintain estrogen levels may cause permanent memory loss: J

Neuroendocrinol. 2007 Feb;19(2):77-81. Sherwin BB.

http://www.uzzireissmd.com/refs/04.html

The problem I have with reference to these studies is that there is no way

to tell what they really say unless you go and read them yourself, which is

what I am starting to do, if I can get access. Two doctors will refer to the

same study and interpret the results in an opposite way. For example, the

book put out by the National Women’s Health Network, an organization that

looks at menopause with a feminist lens, quotes a study that showed MRI’s

with increased brain activation for women on ‘estrogen’ (they don’t say

which kind) but that the ‘treated’ women were not able to perform better on

cognitive tests.

Apparently a cross cultural study of memory found that social status of

older people had a profound impact on their cognitive performance.

I believe that the motivation for studies has a huge impact on the results,

blind and double blind not withstanding. That is why the drug companies

designing and redesigning studies until they get results that they are happy

with.

I also don’t think there will be any consensus or definitive studies for

something as individual and complex as hormones. Where there are political,

health, social, etc. etc. interests that are so very divisive.

Karima

Hi Val, Here is the link, it’s under references for his book. The

navigation isn’t great, but it’s the menu ‘Condition Treatment Protocol’

then under references for Natural Superwoman. The studies are quoted and he

tells people to use them when they go to their own doctors who may not be

familiar with the latest information.

http://www.uzzireissmd.com/refs/04.html It’s under Chapter 4: Estrogen –

Essence of Woman. There are lots of references for estradiol and estriol as

he references them from the information and claims in his book.

Nora

[Guest guest]

Nora, thank you for that

list. So much to read! I continue to be amazed that docs like

Vliet and Gillespie contend that estriol metabolizes down the most carcinogenic

pathway and others, like Reiss, contend it is safe and effective. All of them are intimately involved with

women and hormones.

Val

From: rhythmicliving

[mailto:rhythmicliving ] On

Behalf Of Nora Rothrock

Hi Val,

Here is the link, it’s under references for his book. The

navigation isn’t great, but it’s the menu ‘Condition

Treatment Protocol’ then under references for Natural Superwoman.

The studies are quoted and he tells people to use them when they go to

their own doctors who may not be familiar with the latest information.

http://www.uzzireissmd.com/refs/04.html

It’s under Chapter 4: Estrogen – Essence of Woman.

There are lots of references for estradiol and estriol as he references

them from the information and claims in his book.

[Guest guest]

My husband takes it and feels good but he gets headaches from certain brands.

Liz

___________________________________

www.ojaipaintedminis.com

From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On Behalf Of Karima PijankaSent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 8:05 PMTo: rhythmicliving Subject: Re: Estriol

Another reason not to self medicate on the basis of studies but on experience:

“Ladies, Ginkgo was found to enhance stamina and sexual performance in male rats. It would be a very good idea to supplement your partner with Ginkgo. In addition, to enhancing their memory, it will improve their sexual being.” from the website belowMy brother tried Ginkgo to enhance memory. It made his hair fall out in gobs. So he went off it. Then a friend looked at he ginkgo he took and said, that’s way too strong a dose. So he bought a really small dose version of Ginkgo, same thing, hair falls out in gobs, he feels like crap. His friend feels great on the stuff.Karima

Nora, thank you for that list. So much to read! I continue to be amazed that docs like Vliet and Gillespie contend that estriol metabolizes down the most carcinogenic pathway and others, like Reiss, contend it is safe and effective. All of them are intimately involved with women and hormones. ValFrom: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On Behalf Of Nora RothrockHi Val,Here is the link, it’s under references for his book. The navigation isn’t great, but it’s the menu ‘Condition Treatment Protocol’ then under references for Natural Superwoman. The studies are quoted and he tells people to use them when they go to their own doctors who may not be familiar with the latest information.http://www.uzzireissmd.com/refs/04.html It’s under Chapter 4: Estrogen – Essence of Woman. There are lots of references for estradiol and estriol as he references them from the information and claims in his book.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I agree. Each study is going to be interpreted by various doctors and individual people differently. And we don’t know all the other factors involved in the studies’ control groups either. Some people have different diets, different health levels, different levels of weight, different levels of stress in their lives, etc., all would effect the results on any hormonal test.

My mother had Alzheimers and I was on the list for all the studies related to that. One memorable one, was that diet coke, in certain individuals, created dementia-like symptoms of memory loss similar to Alzheimers. They had a control group (can’t remember the number), and over a 3 year period tried various things on the dementia. One researcher noticed that several people in the group drank a lot of diet coke. She asked them to quit. Within about a month, their dementia memory symptoms went away. I think we all know that a lot of diet coke would be bad for someone, but this is just another opportunity to look at what else could be affecting our bodies. And I did quit diet coke that day and haven’t looked back! I knew it was bad anyway, and even if the test was just that, it was all I needed.

Nora

Reply-To: <rhythmicliving >

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 18:50:38 -0800

To: " rhythmicliving " <rhythmicliving >

Conversation: Estriol

Subject: Re: Estriol

Failing to maintain estrogen levels may cause permanent memory loss: J

Neuroendocrinol. 2007 Feb;19(2):77-81. Sherwin BB.

http://www.uzzireissmd.com/refs/04.html

The problem I have with reference to these studies is that there is no way

to tell what they really say unless you go and read them yourself, which is

what I am starting to do, if I can get access. Two doctors will refer to the

same study and interpret the results in an opposite way. For example, the

book put out by the National Women’s Health Network, an organization that

looks at menopause with a feminist lens, quotes a study that showed MRI’s

with increased brain activation for women on ‘estrogen’ (they don’t say

which kind) but that the ‘treated’ women were not able to perform better on

cognitive tests.

Apparently a cross cultural study of memory found that social status of

older people had a profound impact on their cognitive performance.

I believe that the motivation for studies has a huge impact on the results,

blind and double blind not withstanding. That is why the drug companies

designing and redesigning studies until they get results that they are happy

with.

I also don’t think there will be any consensus or definitive studies for

something as individual and complex as hormones. Where there are political,

health, social, etc. etc. interests that are so very divisive.

Karima

Hi Val, Here is the link, it’s under references for his book. The

navigation isn’t great, but it’s the menu ‘Condition Treatment Protocol’

then under references for Natural Superwoman. The studies are quoted and he

tells people to use them when they go to their own doctors who may not be

familiar with the latest information.

http://www.uzzireissmd.com/refs/04.html It’s under Chapter 4: Estrogen –

Essence of Woman. There are lots of references for estradiol and estriol as

he references them from the information and claims in his book.

Nora

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I know...and they are all good doctors who have helped 1000s of women. Each doctor is going to interpret studies differently, based on their experience and just general view on life. It’s good to be familiar with them all.

If I remember correctly, I believe someone quoted Dr. Vliet as saying, ‘Why pump your body full of pregnancy hormones (estriol)? And when I mentioned that to Dr. Reiss in December, his response was that tri-est was not going to get you near those levels in any event and if you have the opportunity to use something that is so beneficial and good, then ‘Why wouldn’t you use it?’ And he comes from a place where he believes bio-identicals are safe when used properly, in the right amounts, where other contradictory conditions aren’t present. That includes estriol which he likes for certain reasons.

So in these two doctors, if we take that one step further, we have a ‘Why?’ v. a ‘Why not?’ mentality. And I believe I read that Dr. Vliet only uses FDA approved pharmaceutical produced products. Safer because more consistent I assume. Whereas Dr. Reiss uses mostly compounded products. So again..this is all in keeping with their specific personalities. If you choose Dr. Vliet’s approach, you could be missing out on some solutions because they don’t fit into her ‘box’. And if you choose Dr. Reiss, he is going to be more cutting edge (been at it the longest) and evangelical, trying things a bit quicker which may or may not have a big study attached to it.

And of course, I am not even guessing at any hidden agendas either of them may have for other reasons (ie monetary)!

I do think about carcinogenic pathways of course, but again, how those studies are conducted and with which individuals, makes me a little thoughtful. So many factors to consider. And lots of things in everyday life are thought to go down a carcinogenic pathway if you read the press. I grew up in Los Angeles, just breathing the air was carcinogenic!

I think from my reading and reading this board, my approach is going to stay very open minded. I have tri-est now, which I will use 10 days a month. I will try it for a few months. If I don’t get the results I want or expect, then I will have no problem switching to a higher compound of estradiol or just straight estradiol. And even if I get good results, which I always assume to start, I may switch for a couple of months to see if I can get even better results!

Nora

Reply-To: <rhythmicliving >

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:47:38 -0700

To: <rhythmicliving >

Subject: RE: Estriol

Nora, thank you for that list. So much to read! I continue to be amazed that docs like Vliet and Gillespie contend that estriol metabolizes down the most carcinogenic pathway and others, like Reiss, contend it is safe and effective. All of them are intimately involved with women and hormones.

Val

From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On Behalf Of Nora Rothrock

Hi Val,

Here is the link, it’s under references for his book. The navigation isn’t great, but it’s the menu ‘Condition Treatment Protocol’ then under references for Natural Superwoman. The studies are quoted and he tells people to use them when they go to their own doctors who may not be familiar with the latest information.

http://www.uzzireissmd.com/refs/04.html It’s under Chapter 4: Estrogen – Essence of Woman. There are lots of references for estradiol and estriol as he references them from the information and claims in his book.