Re: Sexual Encounters: Should Aspies have children at all?

[Guest guest]

> The question is whether having children given the genetic risks, is it the

RIGHT THING TO DO.

I'm approaching the issue from that perspective also. I personally

believe that a lot of people rationalize and minimize the risks of

passing on genetic conditions to their unborn children out of a selfish

desire to have a child, as if it is somehow their birthright.

> 1: Would they be that disabled being raised by parents who have had the issues

and worked hard to overcome them? Or would they be better equipped, getting

earlier diagnosis, therapy and so on?

It depends on the level of disability of both the parents and the

child. There is no one answer that applies to all.

> 2: Is it comparable with things like spina bifida, downs syndrome, genetic

defects.

I believe so.

> 3: Would you advise a person who has had cancer in their families or

themselves to not have children due to the genetic risk?

It depends on the type of cancer. Some types are more inheritable and

life-changing than others. Again, there is no one-size-fits-all answer.

> I would love to hear from everyone on this topic, as I am struggling a lot

with it myself. Is it the right thing to do? I literally am in two minds.

In my experience, many people are. This is a very emotional topic

within the disability communities.

I know quite a few Aspies who would regard the merest suggestion that

they not breed as advocating for the eugenics of those who are not

neurotypical. However, there are those within the same population who

wouldn't think twice about terminating a pregnancy for a Down's Syndrome

child. I guess it all depends on whether a particular disability is

regarded as integral to one's identity (as AS is for many people).

I've also met Aspies who want to stack the genetic deck in favor of

having Aspergers children of their own, so as to propagate their own

sub-species of humanity. In the majority of cases, these folks can

barely manage their own checkbook, let alone the responsibility of

becoming a parent to any child.

Best,

~CJ

[Guest guest]

For me, the issue for from Becky's original post was about a lack of enthusiasm from her other half in terms of making babies, and I wondered if that was to do with fear of having a child - not so much about the potential AS aspect of that child - but of having a child around, the responsibility, and the changes it brings.

I was not lucky enough to have a child that lived, although Ian often says he would have liked the experience of a child, he does also, when he is feeling down, say he wouldnt wish his AS traits on a little person.

I disagreed, because I feel that AS isnt a crippling disablement, its a difference, and with that knowledge - especially now with far more enlightenment, we could have approached an AS child with eyes wide open, and embraced that.

Interesting discussion, as usual.

Judy B

To: aspires-relationships Sent: Thursday, 22 March 2012, 12:20Subject: Re: Sexual Encounters: Should Aspies have children at all?> The question is whether having children given the genetic risks, is it the RIGHT THING TO DO.I'm approaching the issue from that perspective also. I

personally believe that a lot of people rationalize and minimize the risks of passing on genetic conditions to their unborn children out of a selfish desire to have a child, as if it is somehow their birthright.> 1: Would they be that disabled being raised by parents who have had the issues and worked hard to overcome them? Or would they be better equipped, getting earlier diagnosis, therapy and so on?It depends on the level of disability of both the parents and the child. There is no one answer that applies to all.> 2: Is it comparable with things like spina bifida, downs syndrome, genetic defects.I believe so.> 3: Would you advise a person who has had cancer in their families or themselves to not have children due to the genetic risk?It depends on the type of cancer. Some types are more inheritable and life-changing than others.

Again, there is no one-size-fits-all answer.> I would love to hear from everyone on this topic, as I am struggling a lot with it myself. Is it the right thing to do? I literally am in two minds.In my experience, many people are. This is a very emotional topic within the disability communities.I know quite a few Aspies who would regard the merest suggestion that they not breed as advocating for the eugenics of those who are not neurotypical. However, there are those within the same population who wouldn't think twice about terminating a pregnancy for a Down's Syndrome child. I guess it all depends on whether a particular disability is regarded as integral to one's identity (as AS is for many people).I've also met Aspies who want to stack the genetic deck in favor of having Aspergers children of their own, so as to propagate their own sub-species of

humanity. In the majority of cases, these folks can barely manage their own checkbook, let alone the responsibility of becoming a parent to any child.Best,~CJ------------------------------------ "We each have our own way of living in the world, together we are like a symphony.Some are the melody, some are the rhythm, some are the harmony It all blends together, we are like a symphony, and each part is crucial.We all contribute to the song of life." ...Sondra We might not always agree; but TOGETHER we will make a difference.ASPIRES is a closed, confidential, moderated list.Responsibility for posts to ASPIRES lies entirely with the original author. Do NOT post mail off-list without the author's permission.

When in doubt, please refer to our list rules at: http://www.aspires-relationships.com/info_rules.htm ASPIRES ~ Climbing the mountain TOGETHER http://www.aspires-relationships.com

[Guest guest]

I had not wanted to weigh in on this before, because I did not want to be mistaken for judgmental. I think that everyone should make this decision for themselves, but it is a decision that is all too often went into with less thought than it deserves. Personally me and my wife decided years ago, well before we came to know that I had Asperger's, not to have kids. I was very good with kids, and in fact will soon finish my education degree to teach, however, the children I interacted with I was able to send home at the end of the day. I knew the script of how to get along and become a favorite of the children. My wife has 14 nieces and nephews, and now six grandnieces and nephews. We have three dogs(just lost the two oldest at 17 and 18 respectively) and a cat that we love and see as our children. There was a lot of thought that went into our decision as well as a lot of self evaluation. For example, while I was able to perform well with all of the nieces and nephews I could not take the interaction on extended basis. They love me, and I love them, but I know that continued 24/7 contact would be more than I could bear. 

As to question number one, I believe the thing to take into account is not only the chances that the child may inherit one of the conditions, but as a child how understanding will they actually be to your conditions. Certainly after they become an adult they may be able to recognize, understand, and reconcile, but what as a small child. Only you know yourselves to be able to analyze whether the degree of your conditions may have affect on the perception your child would create.

As to the second question, that is something of a debate. Personally I believe if Aspie's were the norm and the NT's the very uncommon minority, then the world would be much better off. It is the many issues of the NT that cause problems, such as war and social strife. At least in my opinion. However, this is a NT world. There are actual sources of help now, and recognition, unlike when I was growing up, but it is still not a world build for Aspies.

As to the third question? Yes, I would give them the same advice.Final thought. Is there something so very special about your genes that they are what has to continue your line, or is it the love and way of life that you wish to continue? Adoption is always an option, and often the better one.

 

Thanks, Will, CJ and , you have put forwards exactly the thoughts I have been having about bringing children into the world. Apparently it's about 57% risk of passing on Aspergers genetically, and also to throw into the mix my Bipolar, which is much better managed now and I am in a far better place to deal with it. However there is about 12% risk of passing this on genetically too.

Having been of a maternal bent since I began my Puberty, I have held off for the right time. Jon has also bought into this. Then when we were going to have children, I had a massive breakdown, which put it on hold. That was 3.5 yrs ago. Before we knew about Aspergers or about Bipolar.

Moving on to now. Jon and I are working through our relationship, having very nearly divorced last year. We have couples counselling, I have personal counselling too, and see a psychiatrist. We are going to get a private diagnosis for Jon's AS ways, but we both think that he is on the milder end of the spectrum. He's shown great ability to bond and play with my nephew when he was little. He was a bit puzzled by the teen years, but has made efforts to interact with him too. My nephew is very much like me, although no mental health issues have yet emerged.

The history - we've been together for 10 years, 5 of which married. We've been through a lot together, and a lot has become clear in retrospect, though the Bipolar and Aspergers lenses.

We do love eachother and buy into a future together. That's why we didn't split up last year. Essentially we get on, I am very maternal and I am adjusting to how this impacts on my relationship with Jon, as in effect I am having to nurture him as I would my 14yr old nephew. We are struggling a little with making new adjustments and dealing with our issues in full clarity. Such as how to manage a sex life between two such different people. It is at times frustrating.

We've two dogs, who we dote on, and in effect we vent all our parental urges on in terms of investing in fun time together, interaction and bestowing of love and affection. By the way, I don't dress up the dogs, or baby them or anything weird, just enjoy their essential dogginess!

Yes, I do want to have a child to further the line. Jon says he wants a child or two also. I want to be involved in nurturing a life, helping a child grow up. I've been involved with my nephews upbringing and loved it. I am a natural mothering type, and lots of people say so about me. Having worked as a probation officer, a life coach (Pre breakdown) and also training and project management in a mental health charity, they have all been essentially caring roles involved in nurturing people.

The question is whether having children given the genetic risks, is it the RIGHT THING TO DO.

The children would not want for affection, protection, involvement and nurturing and teaching. Admittedly the way that Jon and I would interact would be different, based on our different personalities.

But would and indeed should you have children if you know there's a risk of them having AS or BP?

1: Would they be that disabled being raised by parents who have had the issues and worked hard to overcome them? Or would they be better equipped, getting earlier diagnosis, therapy and so on?

2: Is it comparable with things like spina bifida, downs syndrome, genetic defects.

3: Would you advise a person who has had cancer in their families or themselves to not have children due to the genetic risk?

I would love to hear from everyone on this topic, as I am struggling a lot with it myself. Is it the right thing to do? I literally am in two minds.

Thanks,

Becky

> >> My advice is " don't " , and by this I mean don't try for or even take

> >> the risk of conception, at least not while your relationship remains

> >> the way you're describing it. Why not? because 1: For their own future

> >> wellbeing, children need to be born into a happy caring broadbased

> >> loving mother and father relationship. because 2: In common with many

> >> other AS dads, it's unlikely that Jon will be able to properly bond

> >> with your offspring and fulfill the shared upbringing duties that

> >> fatherhood normally entails. because 3: There's a significant risk

> >> that your offspring will inherit AS genes from its father. I could go

> >> on.....but let me conclude now with a couple of difficult questions: -

> >> Do you really love this man in complete body and soul? - Is yours the

> >> kind of all-embracing loving relationship that you believe children

> >> should be conceived out of? (who made some bad mistakes and got

> >> it all wrong)

>

> --

> WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

> http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Judy,

So sorry to hear your story, and I feel similarly to you that AS isn't a

crippling disease, and that's the point, it's not life threatening, and people

can learn ways around it.

We're not actually trying yet, as we're about to move to Germany, so holding

back, and to date I have always been using contraception, so Jon's reticence

isn't related to fear of creating babies.

I just don't think that he actually wants sex or more importantly to initiate

sex very often. However I did mention to him about me taking a more active role

in initiation, following the comments on the board and he was very enthusiastic.

When he talks about having children, he seems very certain that he does want

children. I hope we will be able to have children once we decide to try. I

know it's definitely not something you can take for granted, and I do view it as

a very special gift, which is why I am thinking about it.

>

> > The question is whether having children given the genetic risks, is it the

RIGHT THING TO DO.

>

> I'm approaching the issue from that perspective also.  I personally

> believe that a lot of people rationalize and minimize the risks of

> passing on genetic conditions to their unborn children out of a selfish

> desire to have a child, as if it is somehow their birthright.

>

>

> > 1: Would they be that disabled being raised by parents who have had the

issues and worked hard to overcome them?  Or would they be better equipped,

getting earlier diagnosis, therapy and so on?

>

>

> It depends on the level of disability of both the parents and the

> child.  There is no one answer that applies to all.

>

>

> > 2: Is it comparable with things like spina bifida, downs syndrome, genetic

defects.

>

>

> I believe so.

>

>

> > 3: Would you advise a person who has had cancer in their families or

themselves to not have children due to the genetic risk?

>

>

> It depends on the type of cancer.  Some types are more inheritable and

> life-changing than others.  Again, there is no one-size-fits-all answer.

>

>

> > I would love to hear from everyone on this topic, as I am struggling a lot

with it myself.  Is it the right thing to do?  I literally am in two minds.

>

>

> In my experience, many people are.  This is a very emotional topic

> within the disability communities.

>

> I know quite a few Aspies who would regard the merest suggestion that

> they not breed as advocating for the eugenics of those who are not

> neurotypical.  However, there are those within the same population who

> wouldn't think twice about terminating a pregnancy for a Down's Syndrome

> child.  I guess it all depends on whether a particular disability is

> regarded as integral to one's identity (as AS is for many people).

>

> I've also met Aspies who want to stack the genetic deck in favor of

> having Aspergers children of their own, so as to propagate their own

> sub-species of humanity.  In the majority of cases, these folks can

> barely manage their own checkbook, let alone the responsibility of

> becoming a parent to any child.

>

>

> Best,

> ~CJ

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>             " We each have our own way of living in the world, together we are

like a symphony.

> Some are the melody, some are the rhythm, some are the harmony

> It all blends together, we are like a symphony, and each part is crucial.

> We all contribute to the song of life. "

>                       ...Sondra

>

> We might not always agree; but TOGETHER we will make a difference.

>

> ASPIRES is a closed, confidential, moderated list.

> Responsibility for posts to ASPIRES lies entirely with the original author.

>       Do NOT post mail off-list without the author's permission.

>             When in doubt, please refer to our list rules at:

>           http://www.aspires-relationships.com/info_rules.htm

>                 ASPIRES ~ Climbing the mountain TOGETHER

>                   http://www.aspires-relationships.com

>