Re: Newcomer Shuffles to Back of Room

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 00-09-16 01:14:31 EDT, you write:

<< When I'm on the lo-carb

regime, it's almost militant--30-50/day. >>

30-50 carbs per day sounds pretty good. Here's something sweet I discovered

you might like to add to your regime, doesn't do too much damage...for

dessert try ricotta cheese mixed with either " cinnamnon-sugar " (using Equal

or Splenda) and a few strawberries...or even better if you can get it, Twist

(which is a yummy low-carb chocolate-hazelnut spread) mixed in. Low-fat

ricotta has 5.140 carbs per 100 grams and if you can find the whole-milk kind

it, interestingly, has even less carbs, 3.040 per 100 grams. I like it by

the spoonful but it also tastes great on a piece of (low-carb) bread. I

think you can buy the low-carb bread mix (for bread machines) through one of

the low-carb site on the web. The Twist is from Holland and they have a

website but it's not finished yet so you can't order from the web yet. But

it'll be up soon, I hope. I'm lucky -- there's a low-carb store near my

house. And the next time they get it in I'm buying three or four bottles.

Vicki

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 00-09-16 01:28:00 EDT, you write:

<< Vicki, a stretched out peak isn't a peak anymore is it.

>>

Right, it's a bread loaf! :-) V.

[Guest guest]

> Hi, Bob. Welcome to our group - and I'm glad Teri got you onboard. Your

> introduction was delightful, and I look forward to having you with us.

>

> We all backslide from time to time, I'm sure. Personally, I'm a carb

> addict, and am much better on a moderate to low intake thereof. However,

> since my apples, plums and rasberries are ripe, and peaches not far behind,

> this isn't always the way. I'm scrambling like mad to give it all away, so

> it's not here and in my face.

Thanks Barb. It must be tough occupying the center axis of orchards and

berry tracts, even while the fruit be mainly forbidden.

As I recall--correct me if I'm wrong--there was another woman, long, long

ago who was stuck in the same predicament. I think her name was Eve.

God must have known she was diabetic, else why would He restrict her carb

intake? Even went to the extent of exhorting that if she didn't go lo-carb

" Thou shalt surely die! " an urging which we know through modern, diabetic

science was the exact right thing to say! But, then again, if it were

really Eden, most surely there must have been croissants, pasta prima vera

and beer-battered shrimp just laying around too.

But God, being the divine glucometer, would surely have cast a stern eye

in her direction had she reached for one of those other carbohydratic sins

too. These features didn't make it the King version of the Bible,

perhaps, for editorial reasons, like concision. I mean the Bible is quite

long enough, without itemizing the complete Edenic inventory from A to Z,

from almond meringue to zucchini bread. The genealogical 'begets', rather,

get such a full treatment, later in Numbers and such. It was decided that

listing people's names and the names of their offspring reasonably counted

more than listing everything in the kitchen cupboards, the orchards, the

lands of milk and honey. Probably the best thing, too, since no one really

complains about the decision, quite satisfied are we with the final

result, the best best seller of all time. And the side benefit of listing

all Eve's offspring and their offsprings means that we diabetics are all

related to one another. Our family tree is there in black and white.

Now, had Eve reached He would've felt the BG (By God!) spike. She did. He

did. He did feel a spike, like a wound. Got to get her out of there, away

from the Eden's starchy abundance. Could just as easily have been a bagel

or even Haagen Daaz that did Eve in--piece o' cake in Eden!-- but it just

happened to be an apple, that's all. Which variety wasn't specified, maybe

a Cortland, maybe a Gravenstein, but likely a 's Orange.

The situation seems to have found its contemporary rehearsal, at a farm

named 'Rainbow'with an Eve stand-in named Barb! Only the names have

changed. Notice though that all the names carry equivalent amounts of

syllables, I suspect, by divine design. And our divine glucometer goes by

several names (also beginning with Capital Letters) these days, and we

each of us, the pious diabetics, have small shrines where we offer up our

blood sacrifices everyday.

But we should remain comforted knowing our direct family linkage lines up

straight with the first diabetic, Eve, she, an otherwise perfect creation.

(sorry for blathering stream of consciousness; I've been pent up for a

long time; I promise: it will abate, just as the flood did)

Bob

******************************

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 00-09-16 08:57:39 EDT, you write:

<< (sorry for blathering stream of consciousness; I've been pent up for a

long time; I promise: it will abate, just as the flood did) >>

Not blathering, Bob, loved that post...I'm saving it! Vicki

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 00-09-16 10:05:19 EDT, you write:

<<

****Thanks, Vick. I'm pretty compulsive (as in overeater), so there's no

such thing as a small treat, if they're in the house. >>

Sure, I understand...I'm sorta compulsive myself. But I handle Small Amounts

of Treats by counting 'em out, putting the rest out of sight and leaving the

kitchen. (i.e. ten almonds)...you could pick the berries, pack 'em up to

give away but hold out ten or twelve for yourself, get the rest out of sight

then eat your 10 or 12 Very Slowly, Savoring each burst of flavor...then do

something else, Quick!

Well it works for me...but maybe not for you. V.

[Guest guest]

Boy, any little distraction around here and my brain falls out! I meant to

say that experiments have shown that just squeezing on our kidneys can cause

them to leak protein. I wrote:

<< One study found that just squeezing on our kidneys with our arms and

hands increases the pressure in them. >>

Susie < picking brain up off floor, poking it back in via my left ear >

[Guest guest]

> Welcome Bob! I remember you from way back, and wondered what had

> happened to the gent from Nova Scotia.

> Nice to see you found us here.

Thanks. The tone of conversation in this place is very friendly.

Bob

******************************

[Guest guest]

> Gee Bob, on this list, you can even talk about herbals, and supplements

> without getting bombed! Imagine that!

Is Simon diabetic? Parsley, sage, rosemary...

> My regimen consists of 1000mg evening primrose 3x daily, 400ui vitamin E

> 3x daily, in addition to glucophage.

What does the evening primrose do?

Bob

******************************

[Guest guest]

> Welcome Bob,

>

> I'm one of those guys that hide in the back. I read a lot but don't post

> two often. Weight training has become my passion. No, I don't even plan on

> struting round on stage, but I like my strenght gains, and busting a gut to

> push a few more pounds!

> Besides, as a type two diabetic, muscle mass is more sensitive to insulin

> that body fat. And the NEW muscle is not tainted with high sugars, insulin,

> or " plastic foods " .

Ya, muscles are good. I think I've gained about 10-15 lbs worth of them.

What I don't look forward to, though, are those darn DOMS! More sleep, I

need, I guess.

Bob

******************************

[Guest guest]

> Welcome to the list, Bob! There are a number of us Cdns on this list. Halifax

is a great place (we were there last summer).

Thanks, . Ya, Halifax is okay, though, I suppose its diabetic clinic

as about as Pleistocenic as most places. The nutrionist at my final

check-up looked horrified by my diet report. She encouraged me to 'up' the

carbs to achieve more 'balance'.

I listened patiently and on the way out, I dumped the pamphet on 'Low-Fat

Muffin Recipes' into the waste. Old paradigms die hard.

Bob

******************************

[Guest guest]

Susie wrote:

> I'm sure they are as charmed as I am, Bob. They already know you, through my

> repetition of your catchy phrases, such as " working the perimeters of the

> grocery stores " and " we diabetics are all spread along the continuum. "

I said those things? Ha!

Still, I should read posting guidelines if you have them, since, as you

know, I can sometimes overswing my welcome, something like a chimp on a

chandelier at a royal ball.

Bob

******************************

[Guest guest]

>

> In a message dated 00-09-16 08:57:39 EDT, you write:

>

> << (sorry for blathering stream of consciousness; I've been pent up for a

> long time; I promise: it will abate, just as the flood did) >>

>

> Not blathering, Bob, loved that post...I'm saving it! Vicki

Vicki, who is the moderator? Is the list owned? Does the moderator

participate.

What are the edges of acceptable decorum?

Bob

******************************

[Guest guest]

Bob wrote:

> Ya, Halifax is okay, though, I suppose its diabetic clinic

> as about as Pleistocenic as most places. <snip> I listened patiently and on

the way out, I dumped the pamphet on 'Low-Fat

> Muffin Recipes' into the waste. Old paradigms die hard.

They certainly do... and many paradigms are still quite healthy and living in

our health care system. My own doctor was horrified

when I told him that I was " low carbing " ... after all ... he'd been eating low

fat and see how much weight he has lost eating

veggie pizza! (geez!!!) and when I offered to give him some reading material on

what I was doing, he dismissed it and said that

he didn't have time to read!!! Luckily for me, my endo is a little more

reasonable in this regard.

[Guest guest]

> > (sorry for blathering stream of consciousness; I've been pent up for a

> > long time; I promise: it will abate, just as the flood did)

> >

> > Bob

> >

> > ******************************

>

> Hi, Bob. Does this mean we can look forward to this for another 39

> days? <VBG>

No, although you've caught me with the broad side of one of the arc's

oars with this biblical technicality. Let us thus call mine a 'flash

flood', like in the movies.

You can decide which is better, the book or the movie, though in most

cases it's the book that wins out.

Bob

******************************

[Guest guest]

> Welcome Bob,

> I am looking forward to your future posts.

> I also have Susie to thank for pointing me in the direction of diabetes_int.

> I haven't been able to get to where I am low carbing yet but I am trying.

> Any suggestions or ideas from someone whom overcame the difficulties of

> changing their whole way of eating is always appreciated.

> I do have certain medical " excuses " that I am trying to overcome such as

> chronic severe gastritis from years of NSAID use.

> Pleased to see another Canadian on the list, British Columbia here. All the

> figures posted in American numbers are sometimes confusing to me but I just

> keep my calculator handy and divide by 18.

> Now step up to the front of the room and share what helps you " low-carb " .

Mine may be an incongruous perspective on lo-carb.

Although our focus is trained on the foods themselves, lo-carb, hi-carb,

whatever, I assert that context is everything. It's everything other than

the foods that conditions our focus toward it. Mediating the environment

in which lo-carb eating is to be situated is like a putting a color filter

in front of everything you eat.

Family support, with it, that's a positive mediating force, but without

it, your sunk. Reading about LC strengthens the intellectual shell.

Metaphors work for me in grocery store, another alterable environment. For

instance, we shop only what we call the 'perimeter' of the store, that is

vegetables, meat, poultry, cheese. The center aisles we call the

'razor-wired rows'. Military metaphors. For stuff like coffee, my wife

enters those rows. I just walk the big square on the outside.

Also, I don't watch television. The ads for Raisin Bran and 17 million

other carb-soaked food are 'cognitive programming devices'. Advertising

works, most especially on those who stiffen up and say, 'Oh, those darn

stupid ads don't work on me'. Ya, right.

I never eat out. Only special pre-planned outings. Eating out is like

sending a fox do a census count at a chicken barn. That's environment too.

In the house, carbs have their own designated cupboard, and even then,

only a small section. My wife has more or less come in my direction on

this count. She's thin and eats fries or a donut at work, but once home,

she pretty much eats what I do. When she does eat carbs, it's boring stuff

that I don't like anyway--boiled potatoe, Wonderbread, Mr.Noodles..ick!

That's environment.

Run your autobiography through your mind and that might throw a cold

spotlight on psychological conditionings which obstruct your progress. A

good example: When you describe the lo-carb diet to most people, they

often reel in horror, with the refrain, " Oh my! I could never live like

that! No bananas? No way! " That's the perfectly stiff welder's joint of

conditioning speaking that refrain. Mind already fixed to fail.

If one look around one's complete personal environment with a

contemplative but critical eye, all the sabateurs begin to emerge from the

shadows of their ambush. Each of has her own peculiar set of environmental

forces which lie in wait for chances to subvert.

Hoisting a forkful of chicken to your mouth is the easy part. As Mark

Twain offered, " Context is everything: it's the difference between

lightning and the lightning bug " .

Bob

******************************

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 00-09-16 17:24:02 EDT, you write:

>

> << What I don't look forward to, though, are those darn DOMS >>

>

> what are DOMS? V.

'Delayed Muscle Onset Soreness'. Lift a good workout of weights on Monday,

feel fine Tuesday, but on Wednesday feel the slow onset of muscles

repairing, renovating, adding more rooms, digging a new septic tank,

getting bigger. A little soreness, in short, delayed.

Of the best kind, though, like that consuming tranquility of complete

exhaustion and soreness after a hard day of picking apples or moving an

entire household.. that feeling in bed, just before the the onset of a

peaceful, restorative sleep.

DOMS.

Bob

******************************

[Guest guest]

>

> In a message dated 00-09-16 17:28:57 EDT, you write:

>

> << , though, I suppose its diabetic clinic as about as Pleistocenic as most

> places. >>

>

> ...tho I'm not 'zactly sure if " Pleistocenic " is an actual word...but we get

> the idea. V.

Ya, well, I thought 'Pleistocenic' telegraphed a better sense of the

retrogradationality of the nutritionist, than, say, 'backward'. I make up

new words all the time because the million or so words we have in English

are not nearly enough to cover the infinitudinicular nature of human

experience.

I'm not alone in this. Shakespeare didn't know what what 'slam-dunk' meant

because no one had thunk it up yet.

Bob

******************************

[Guest guest]

DaveO, with all that oil and glucophage, not surprising you read a lot

in the reading room.

[Guest guest]

Do you see why I love Bob? We're all delighted you decided to join our

group. Bob can step in and explain things so wonderfully! He wrote:

<< Run your autobiography through your mind and that might throw a cold

spotlight on psychological conditionings which obstruct your progress. A

good example: When you describe the lo-carb diet to most people, they

often reel in horror, with the refrain, " Oh my! I could never live like

that! No bananas? No way! " That's the perfectly stiff welder's joint of

conditioning speaking that refrain. Mind already fixed to fail. >>

Bob, your response to Faye Dunn was perfect. When my sister went to Mayo

Clinic with her rheumatoid arthritis, gout, and Sjogren's to be checked for

food allergies, they gave her a list that was basically grains. She came

home, depressed, and said, " I'm allergic to everything! " No she wasn't. But

in her mind, she was, because she loves to eat out, and she couldn't

possibly imagine meals that didn't contain bread, pasta, rice and potatoes.

Go to a restaurant and tell the waitstaff you want something with your meat

other than potatoes or rice dishes, and they're stumped! (Hint: just ask for

more veggies, if what they're serving isn't a starchy offering.) You can ask

the staff not to bring you bread, and they'll do it anyway ... It's such a

habit.

Many of us find carbohydrates so addicting that we don't dare allow them in

the house. We check the nutritional labels, and set an upper limit per

serving. We really have to watch the serving sizes ... my portions tend to

be 2-4 times what they list. That has to be factored in when " counting carbs

off the label. "

Susie

[Guest guest]

Bob wrote:

>

>

>

>

> > Gee Bob, on this list, you can even talk about herbals, and supplements

> > without getting bombed! Imagine that!

>

> Is Simon diabetic? Parsley, sage, rosemary...

>

> > My regimen consists of 1000mg evening primrose 3x daily, 400ui vitamin E

> > 3x daily, in addition to glucophage.

>

> What does the evening primrose do?

For one:

Supplementing with 4 grams of evening primrose oil per day for

six months has been found to reverse the cause of diabetic

nerve damage and improve this painful condition. In double blind

research, 6 grams per day helped reduce nerve damage in people

with both IDDM and NIDDM.95

95. Reichert R. Evening primrose oil and diabetic neuropathy. Quarterly

Rev

Natural Med Summer 1995:129–33 [review].

And:

What does it do? Evening primrose oil (EPO), black currant seed oil,

and

borage oil contain gamma linolenic acid (GLA), a fatty acid that the

body converts to a hormone-like substance called prostaglandin E1

(PGE1). PGE1 has anti-inflammatory properties and may also act as

a blood thinner and blood vessel dilator.

The anti-inflammatory properties of EPO have been studied in

double blind research with people suffering from rheumatoid

arthritis. Some, but not all, studies have reported that EPO

supplementation provides significant benefit to these people.

GLA, the primary active ingredient in EPO, has anti-cancer

activity in test tube studies and in some, but not all, animal

studies. Injecting GLA into tumors has caused regression of

cancer in people in preliminary research. Very preliminary

evidence in people with cancer suggested “marked subjective

improvement,” though not all studies find GLA helpful.

EPO has been reported to lower cholesterol levels in people in

some, but not all, research.

Linoleic acid, a common fatty acid found in nuts, seeds, and

most vegetable oils (including EPO), should theoretically convert

to PGE1. But many things can interfere with this conversion,

including disease, the aging process, saturated fat,

hydrogenated oils, blood sugar problems, and inadequate vitamin

C, magnesium, zinc, and B vitamins. Supplements that provide

GLA circumvent these conversion problems, leading to more

predictable formation of PGE1.

Where is it found? EPO is found primarily in supplements. The

active ingredient, GLA, can also be found in black current seed oil

and borage oil supplements.

--

Dave -- Sunday, September 17, 2000

t2 8/98 Glucophage & *anything* laced with Aspartame

ICQ 10312009

«»

DavOr's daily aphorism:

Hypochondria is the only disease I haven't got.

--

Visit my photo page @ http://www.dorcutt.homepage.com

[Guest guest]

astrocarly@... wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 9/16/00 7:32:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, fencible@...

> writes:

>

> << 400ui vitamin E

> 3x daily, >>

>

> Tell me about this, why do you take it 3x aday? thanks

Vitamin E

Also known as: Tocopherol, tocopheryl (acetate,

succinate,

etc.)

What does it do? Vitamin E is a powerful

antioxidant that

protects cell membranes and other fat-soluble parts

of the body,

such as LDL cholesterol (the “bad” cholesterol).

Protection of LDL

cholesterol may reduce the risk of heart disease.

Two studies

published in the New England Journal of Medicine

show that both

men1 and women2 who supplement with at least 100 IU

of

vitamin E per day for at least two years have a

37–41% drop in

the risk of heart disease. Even more impressive is

the 77% drop

in nonfatal heart attacks reported in the double

blind CHAOS

study, in which people were given 400–800 IU

vitamin E per

day.3

What about the different kinds of vitamin E? The

names of all

types of vitamin E begin with either “d” or “dl,”

which refer to

differences in chemical structure. The “d” form is

natural and “dl”

is synthetic. The natural form is more active. More

synthetic

vitamin E is added to supplements to compensate for

the low

level of activity. For example, 100 IU of vitamin E

requires about

67 mg of the natural form but at least 100 mg of

the synthetic.

Little is known about how the synthetic “dl” form

affects the

body, though no clear toxicity has been discovered.

Most

doctors of natural medicine advise people to use

only the natural

(“d”) form of vitamin E.

After the “d” or “dl” designation, often the Greek

letter “alpha”

appears, which also describes the structure.

Synthetic “dl”

vitamin E is found only in the alpha form—as in

“dl-alpha

tocopherol.” Natural vitamin E can be found either

as alpha—as in

“d-alpha tocopherol”—or in combination with beta,

gamma, and

delta—this combination is labeled “mixed” (as in

mixed natural

tocopherols).

Human trials with vitamin E have almost always been

done with

the alpha (not gamma) form. Historically the

synthetic “dl” form

was used in most trials, but some trials are now

using the natural

form. The two reports mentioned above (men and

women who

supplement vitamin E have fewer heart attacks)

measured alpha

intake. The double blind CHAOS trial mentioned

above, showing a

77% reduction in nonfatal attacks, used alpha and

not gamma.

This strongly suggests that the alpha form is

protective.

A group of researchers recently claimed that gamma

might better

protect against oxidative damage;4 the evidence

comes from a

test tube study. As a result, some have

hypothesized that alpha

might interfere with the activity of

gamma-tocopherol, a claim

that remains unproven.

The issue of alpha versus gamma requires much more

research

before it can be fully understood. Almost all

vitamin E research

shows that positive results require hundreds of

units per day—an

amount easily obtained with supplements but

impossible with

food. Therefore, switching to food sources as

suggested by some

researchers is impractical. Until more is known,

people seeking to

add gamma tocopherol can find mixed natural

tocopherol

supplements. They contain a small amount of gamma,

but the

percentage remains much lower than that found in

food.

Vitamin E forms are listed as either “tocopherol”

or “tocopheryl”

followed by the name of what is attached to it, as

in “tocopheryl

acetate.” The two forms are not greatly different;

however,

tocopherol may absorb a little better, while

tocopheryl forms may

have slightly better shelf life. Both forms are

active when taken

by mouth. However, the skin cannot utilize the

tocopheryl forms,

so those planning to apply vitamin E to the skin

should buy

tocopherol. In health food stores, the most common

forms of

vitamin E are d-alpha tocopherol and d-alpha

tocopheryl

(acetate or succinate). Both of these d (natural)

alpha forms are

frequently recommended by doctors of natural

medicine.

Where is it found? Wheat germ oil, nuts, seeds,

vegetable oils,

whole grains, egg yolks, and leafy green vegetables

all contain

vitamin E. However, the high levels found in

supplements, often

100–800 IU per day, are not obtainable from eating

food.

But then this study says: (This is the one that influenced me)

Wednesday, July 12, 2000

Vitamin E Lowers Risks in Diabetics

Scientists have found another benefit

to vitamin E: it can help diabetes patients

reduce their risk of heart disease and

stroke.

Having type II

diabetes can

increase an

individual's risk for

cardiovascular

problems, including

heart disease and stroke. Researchers at

the University of Texas Southwestern

Medical Center in Dallas compared the

benefits of taking vitamin E supplements in

three groups: Type II diabetes patients

who have inflammation caused by white

blood cells, type II diabetes patients

without this inflammation, and a control

group that doesn't have diabetes. Each

group had 25 persons. The inflammation

plays a role in plaque formation in the

arteries, which can eventually lead to heart

disease or stroke. All participants took

1,200 International Units of vitamin E daily

for three months, followed by two months

without the supplement.

Study results show vitamin E had

anti-inflammatory effects in all three

groups. Researcher say this finding is

particularly important to diabetics trying to

reduce their risks of health-related

complications. " It could be a further

therapy to prevent vascular complications

in diabetes ... " says lead researcher Dr.

Ishwarlal Jialal.

This study is published in the July 11

issue of Circulation: Journal of the

American Heart Association.

--By Katrina Woznicki

I take it for cardiac concerns, along with the anti-inflammatory

results, which seem to help my knees which both have surgically-induced

degenerative arthritis.

--

Dave -- Sunday, September 17, 2000

t2 8/98 Glucophage & *anything* laced with Aspartame

ICQ 10312009

«»

DavOr's daily aphorism:

* Montana -- At least our cows are sane!

--

Visit my photo page @ http://www.dorcutt.homepage.com

[Guest guest]

whimsy2@... wrote:

> In a message dated 00-09-16 17:28:57 EDT, you write:

>

> << , though, I suppose its diabetic clinic as about as Pleistocenic as most

> places. >>

>

> ...tho I'm not 'zactly sure if " Pleistocenic " is an actual word...but we get

> the idea. V.

Just for you:

Main Entry: Pleis·to·cene

Pronunciation: 'plIs-t & - " sEn

Function: adjective

Etymology: Greek pleistos most + International

Scientific

Vocabulary -cene; akin to Greek pleiOn more

Date: 1839

: of, relating to, or being the earlier epoch of

the

Quaternary or the corresponding system of rocks --

see

GEOLOGIC TIME table

- Pleistocene noun

It's all Greek to me.. Only a writer would know where to place this

one..

--

Dave -- Sunday, September 17, 2000

t2 8/98 Glucophage & *anything* laced with Aspartame

ICQ 10312009

«»

DavOr's daily aphorism:

Old age is better than the alternative.

--

Visit my photo page @ http://www.dorcutt.homepage.com

[Guest guest]

Bob wrote:

>

> > > Vicki, who is the moderator? Is the list owned? Does the moderator

> > > participate.

> > >

> > > What are the edges of acceptable decorum?

> >

> > ***I'm not Vicki. Teri and Norgaard are the moderators. Wasn't it

> > Teri who helped you join, and I would imagine that the edges of acceptable

> > decorum would human decency, but she'd be the one to respond more

> > accurately.

> >

> > Barb

> > --------

>

> Whoops, my apologies. It'll take me a little while to learn who's who and

> to be a little more attentive.

>

> I guess I was wondering because 'decorum' suffers from a lot of semantic

> slippage, meaning that its meaning is subject to local and sometimes

> peculiar interpretation.

>

> Still, judging from the posts I've read in last two days, I'm getting a

> feel for the range.

When Norgaard of Denmark started this list (list owner) the

emphasis was placed on diabetics helping one another with information,

be it anecdotal or clinical.

's studies have taken his time away and so Teri graciously

accepted the job of co-moderator. As sweet as she is, she can be a damn

tough one also..

We need very little moderation here. We generally get away with a

moderate amount of off-topic stuff thanks to a few jokers in the group

(myself included).

What is not allowed is flaming, in every aspect of that definition. Many

of us have come from MHD, where anything goes, and insanity prevails at

times. Condescending remarks will be promptly addressed by just about

everyone because we feel safe here, and it just doesn't fly.

While most don't know others personally, I feel that I can say that we

have a family of cyber-friends here, who genuinely care about each

other.

The above is mainly IMHO only, others may modify.

--

Dave -- Sunday, September 17, 2000

t2 8/98 Glucophage & *anything* laced with Aspartame

ICQ 10312009

«»

DavOr's daily aphorism:

I'm an absolute, off-the-wall fanatical moderate.

--

Visit my photo page @ http://www.dorcutt.homepage.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 00-09-16 23:52:32 EDT, you write:

<<

I guess I was wondering because 'decorum' suffers from a lot of semantic

slippage, meaning that its meaning is subject to local and sometimes

peculiar interpretation. >>

We do tend to slip off topic sometimes but it's usually something funny or

important or personal and no one objects...I like to think of us as sorta

extended family. I do care about you all. Vicki

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 00-09-16 23:52:32 EDT, you write:

<<

I guess I was wondering because 'decorum' suffers from a lot of semantic

slippage, meaning that its meaning is subject to local and sometimes

peculiar interpretation. >>

We do tend to slip off topic sometimes but it's usually something funny or

important or personal and no one objects...I like to think of us as sorta

extended family. I do care about you all. Vicki