Guest guest Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 I asked my Dr. the same thing about doing rhythmic cycling and using lower doses and he said it is possible to do that but in the scheme of things because our hormones fluctuate minute to minute he said it would be very difficult to do. I chose not to go on the WP because of the very high doses of E and P. The problem is you may do OK for awhile but then as the hormones build up you can get into big trouble. My ARNP gave me a list of side effects from too much E, P and T and I will locate it today and share with you all. Basically, I am on Bi-est 50/50 2 mg twice a day, progesterone 20 mg twice a day day 15-30 and testosterone 1.5 mg twice a day. This is a new proto- col (slightly lower doses on everything) and I switched from prom- etrium to transdermal cream. I think I am a science project. I do feel great and my Dr. is so wonderful to work with. He really listens and gives advice. Makes sense to me too. Take care all of you. Barbara > > > > > > > > > > > > , not all doctors " push estriol. " Certainly, mine > > doesn't. > > > I > > > > > think a > > > > > > lot of " natural " ones are stuck in the Lee, > > > > > > > > era and do > > > > > > not keep up with research. > > > > > > > > > > > > Val > > > > > > > > > > > > From: rhythmicliving@ <mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?> > ing% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing@ <mailto:rhythmicliv > <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On Behalf Of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Val - once and for all, I would like to know why doctors > > keep > > > > > pushing > > > > > > the estriol instead of estradiol. And why wasn't it FDA > > > approved? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail > <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en- us/text.htm?ncid=ao > lcmp00050000000003> ! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Thank you Barbara! J I’ve gone from doctor to doctor over the past seven years, desperate to know why I feel so horrible. I’ve seen three different gynecologists, an endocrinologist, a gastroenterologist, who is one of the best in the nation; an allergist, an ENT specialist, and finally, even a psychiatrist. None of these physicians could explain my symptoms. When I asked if I could be in menopause, they told me that I was too young. No one was interested in testing hormone levels, claiming that fluctuation would make results meaningless. Since my symptoms worsened after my hysterectomy, I now know that I’ve been experiencing menopause symptoms. I’m 45 with two young children. I cannot fall apart. If hot flashes were my only problem, I think I could deal with things, but I am a basket case. I find it hard to believe that women survive menopause. I am working closely with my doctor, who believes in the WP. I am cautiously hopeful. My doctor will test blood hormone levels for the first time next week. After three months on the protocol, I’ve had some moments of feeling normal again. I’ve had to tweak the dosages on my own. Applying the creams twice daily did not work for me. I’d feel a spike soon after application and crash two - three hours later. These fluctuations caused increased anger and anxiety. I’ve spread out the dosages to 4x daily for the past month. The p must be building in my body, because I experience increased menopause symptoms on high dose days. Therefore, I’ve come down a couple of lines. Today, I am going to try spreading out the estrogen dose to eight times a day. I think applying the cream this way will be a pain, but I’d like to see if doing so helps me handle the fluctuations better. Isn’t menopause hell? I have never felt so physically and emotionally bad in my life! Take care, Theresa Re: WP rhythem I asked my Dr. the same thing about doing rhythmic cycling and using lower doses and he said it is possible to do that but in the scheme of things because our hormones fluctuate minute to minute he said it would be very difficult to do. I chose not to go on the WP because of the very high doses of E and P. The problem is you may do OK for awhile but then as the hormones build up you can get into big trouble. My ARNP gave me a list of side effects from too much E, P and T and I will locate it today and share with you all. Basically, I am on Bi-est 50/50 2 mg twice a day, progesterone 20 mg twice a day day 15-30 and testosterone 1.5 mg twice a day. This is a new proto- col (slightly lower doses on everything) and I switched from prom- etrium to transdermal cream. I think I am a science project. I do feel great and my Dr. is so wonderful to work with. He really listens and gives advice. Makes sense to me too. Take care all of you. Barbara > > > > > > > > > > > > , not all doctors "push estriol." Certainly, mine > > doesn't. > > > I > > > > > think a > > > > > > lot of "natural" ones are stuck in the Lee, > > > > > > > > era and do > > > > > > not keep up with research. > > > > > > > > > > > > Val > > > > > > > > > > > > From: rhythmicliving@ <mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?> > ing% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing@ <mailto:rhythmicliv > <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On Behalf Of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Val - once and for all, I would like to know why doctors > > keep > > > > > pushing > > > > > > the estriol instead of estradiol. And why wasn't it FDA > > > approved? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail > <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en- us/text.htm?ncid=ao > lcmp00050000000003> ! > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Liz, I wish you the best in your quest for feeling better. Don't give up but make sure you mark down your symptoms and be careful. I will look up my symptom list of excess and deficient hormones and put it on the posting. It seems like all the Dr's I go to have a little different spin on hormones. Take care. Barbara > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , not all doctors " push estriol. " Certainly, mine > > > doesn't. > > > > I > > > > > > think a > > > > > > > lot of " natural " ones are stuck in the Lee, > > > > > > > > > > > era and do > > > > > > > not keep up with research. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Val > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: rhythmicliving@ <mailto:rhythmicliv > <mailto:rhythmicliv?> > > ing% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing@ > <mailto:rhythmicliv > > <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > > On Behalf Of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Val - once and for all, I would like to know why doctors > > > keep > > > > > > pushing > > > > > > > the estriol instead of estradiol. And why wasn't it FDA > > > > approved? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail > > <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en- > us/text.htm?ncid=ao > > lcmp00050000000003> ! > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ ___ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 I am able to cycle on about 1/2 the Wiley doses, a little more E than half. I was in menopause for 1 1/2 yrs before I started, and I have beendoing this for 3 years. I should mention that I've always had an easy time with my cycles, very regular, probably not many hormonal fluctuations.MartyI asked my Dr. the same thing about doing rhythmic cycling and usinglower doses and he said it is possible to do that but in the schemeof things because our hormones fluctuate minute to minute he said itwould be very difficult to do. I chose not to go on the WP becauseof the very high doses of E and P. The problem is you may do OK forawhile but then as the hormones build up you can get into big trouble. My ARNP gave me a list of side effects from too much E, Pand T and I will locate it today and share with you all. Basically,I am on Bi-est 50/50 2 mg twice a day, progesterone 20 mg twice a dayday 15-30 and testosterone 1.5 mg twice a day. This is a new proto-col (slightly lower doses on everything) and I switched from prom-etrium to transdermal cream. I think I am a science project. I do feel great and my Dr. is so wonderful to work with. He really listens and gives advice. Makes sense to me too. Take care all of you.Barbara> > > > > >> > > > > > , not all doctors "push estriol." Certainly, mine > > doesn't. > > > I > > > > > think a> > > > > > lot of "natural" ones are stuck in the Lee, > > > > > > > > era and do> > > > > > not keep up with research.> > > > > > > > > > > > Val> > > > > > > > > > > > From: rhythmicliving@ <mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?>> ing%> > 40yahoogroups.com>> > > yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing@ <mailto:rhythmicliv> <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing%> > 40yahoogroups.com>> > > yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing%40yahoogroups.com> ]> > > > > > On Behalf Of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Val - once and for all, I would like to know why doctors > > keep > > > > > pushing > > > > > > the estriol instead of estradiol. And why wasn't it FDA > > > approved? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > _____ > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=ao> lcmp00050000000003> !> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Theresa, I am so sorry you have had to go through all of this. I went to a OB/GYN when I was 38 (now 48) complaining of weird symptoms. When I suggested pre menopause, I too, was told I was to young. I then found a nurse practioner who prescribed me compounded P. I used that, thinking I was doing a good thing (Lee brainwashed) and ended up with the worse depression/anxiety that I thought my life was over. I had never experienced depression. I went to many drs, including a cardiologist (and found out I have Mitral Valve Prolapse) I ended up on an antidepressant which brought me out of the depression. I didn't have a CLUE that the P was the problem as I was told over and over, it was a natrual anti depressant. (I did not have easy access to the web). I then started having longer and longer periods. I kept telling everyone that I thought I had cancer. AGAIN, I was told I was to young. But I guess my body didn't know that and I ended up with endometrial cancer. And then my complete hyst. I was then told that I could not use any E for 5 years or I could get cancer again. I believed the drs. for about 2 years. I was in surgical menopause and thought I was doomed to a life of hot flashes and body aches. (I didn't have anxiety and little depression). I ended up going online and talking to a pharmacist and consulted with their dr on staff and got my first script for Estrace. It helped SO much, but I wanted more. A year later a different dr. told me about the WP. I went to a dr who worked closely with Susie Wiley and did really well the first 3 months. My body was sooooooooooo depleted. But then we tried playing the numbers game and my numbers never got to the ranges that they were "supposed" to get to. So the E dose kept going up and the P just started building and building. I think if I had stayed where I was or even gone down some, I would have been okay. But after 12 months of the stress and the high doses, my brain said STOP!!!! My worst symptoms were always at the high P phase. I never had PMS when I DID have my uterus and to experience what I thought could be, was awful. Just keep listening to you intuition. If you think the P is to much try less. And if that seems to much, even less. Hang in there!!!!!! Liz ___________________________________ www.ojaipaintedminis.com From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On Behalf Of ayalatheresa@...Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 8:41 AMTo: rhythmicliving Subject: Re: Re: WP rhythem Thank you Barbara! J I’ve gone from doctor to doctor over the past seven years, desperate to know why I feel so horrible. I’ve seen three different gynecologists, an endocrinologist, a gastroenterologist, who is one of the best in the nation; an allergist, an ENT specialist, and finally, even a psychiatrist. None of these physicians could explain my symptoms. When I asked if I could be in menopause, they told me that I was too young. No one was interested in testing hormone levels, claiming that fluctuation would make results meaningless. Since my symptoms worsened after my hysterectomy, I now know that I’ve been experiencing menopause symptoms. I’m 45 with two young children. I cannot fall apart. If hot flashes were my only problem, I think I could deal with things, but I am a basket case. I find it hard to believe that women survive menopause. I am working closely with my doctor, who believes in the WP. I am cautiously hopeful. My doctor will test blood hormone levels for the first time next week. After three months on the protocol, I’ve had some moments of feeling normal again. I’ve had to tweak the dosages on my own. Applying the creams twice daily did not work for me. I’d feel a spike soon after application and crash two - three hours later. These fluctuations caused increased anger and anxiety. I’ve spread out the dosages to 4x daily for the past month. The p must be building in my body, because I experience increased menopause symptoms on high dose days. Therefore, I’ve come down a couple of lines. Today, I am going to try spreading out the estrogen dose to eight times a day. I think applying the cream this way will be a pain, but I’d like to see if doing so helps me handle the fluctuations better. Isn’t menopause hell? I have never felt so physically and emotionally bad in my life! Take care, Theresa Re: WP rhythem I asked my Dr. the same thing about doing rhythmic cycling and usinglower doses and he said it is possible to do that but in the schemeof things because our hormones fluctuate minute to minute he said itwould be very difficult to do. I chose not to go on the WP becauseof the very high doses of E and P. The problem is you may do OK forawhile but then as the hormones build up you can get into big trouble. My ARNP gave me a list of side effects from too much E, Pand T and I will locate it today and share with you all. Basically,I am on Bi-est 50/50 2 mg twice a day, progesterone 20 mg twice a dayday 15-30 and testosterone 1.5 mg twice a day. This is a new proto-col (slightly lower doses on everything) and I switched from prom-etrium to transdermal cream. I think I am a science project. I do feel great and my Dr. is so wonderful to work with. He really listens and gives advice. Makes sense to me too. Take care all of you.Barbara> > > > > >> > > > > > , not all doctors "push estriol." Certainly, mine > > doesn't. > > > I > > > > > think a> > > > > > lot of "natural" ones are stuck in the Lee, > > > > > > > > era and do> > > > > > not keep up with research.> > > > > > > > > > > > Val> > > > > > > > > > > > From: rhythmicliving@ <mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?>> ing%> > 40yahoogroups.com>> > > yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing@ <mailto:rhythmicliv> <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing%> > 40yahoogroups.com>> > > yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing%40yahoogroups.com> ]> > > > > > On Behalf Of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Val - once and for all, I would like to know why doctors > > keep > > > > > pushing > > > > > > the estriol instead of estradiol. And why wasn't it FDA > > > approved? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > _____ > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=ao> lcmp00050000000003> !> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Thank you for sharing your experience, Liz. I feel comforted knowing that other women have experienced what I am experiencing and have survived. At first the progesterone seemed to help. This last cycle I felt that I may have had too much, as I did not feel as calm as the first two months on the wp. All the contradictory information out there makes this journey so difficult. I'm beginning to wonder if anyone has the answer. Dr. Reiss claims that estrogen causes water retention. For me, the progesterone seems to do it. Some claim estrogen causes anxiety, others that it helps with anxiety. I feel better on higher levels, but wonder if it sometimes causes anger. I've had people tell me to stop playing doctor, but if I'd waited for doctors to help me, I'd probably be in a mental hospital. The doctor who did my surgery gave me low dose HRT. I did not sleep for months! In addition, it got where I could not even stand myself, let alone expect my husband and children to deal with me. I will just keep informing myself and growing. It is scary, but I've felt better informed than some of the doctors I've seen. Theresa Re: WP rhythem I asked my Dr. the same thing about doing rhythmic cycling and using lower doses and he said it is possible to do that but in the scheme of things because our hormones fluctuate minute to minute he said it would be very difficult to do. I chose not to go on the WP because of the very high doses of E and P. The problem is you may do OK for awhile but then as the hormones build up you can get into big trouble. My ARNP gave me a list of side effects from too much E, P and T and I will locate it today and share with you all. Basically, I am on Bi-est 50/50 2 mg twice a day, progesterone 20 mg twice a day day 15-30 and testosterone 1.5 mg twice a day. This is a new proto- col (slightly lower doses on everything) and I switched from prom- etrium to transdermal cream. I think I am a science project. I do feel great and my Dr. is so wonderful to work with. He really listens and gives advice. Makes sense to me too. Take care all of you. Barbara > > > > > > > > > > > > , not all doctors "push estriol." Certainly, mine > > doesn't. > > > I > > > > > think a > > > > > > lot of "natural" ones are stuck in the Lee, > > > > > > > > era and do > > > > > > not keep up with research. > > > > > > > > > > > > Val > > > > > > > > > > > > From: rhythmicliving@ <mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?> > ing% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing@ <mailto:rhythmicliv > <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:rhythmicliv <mailto:rhythmicliv?> ing% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On Behalf Of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Val - once and for all, I would like to know why doctors > > keep > > > > > pushing > > > > > > the estriol instead of estradiol. And why wasn't it FDA > > > approved? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail > <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en- us/text.htm?ncid=ao > lcmp00050000000003> ! > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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