Adrenals, DHEA and Saliva Labs continued...

[Guest guest]

Thank you to everyone who responded to my note and questions a few days ago. I am feeling pretty awful, but I think a lot of it is from gallbladder problems. I am due to see someone about that in a couple of weeks. Right after my hysterectomy I had a few GB attacks with excruciating pain, and was told that GB problems are common after hysterectomy, even when ovaries are left intact. The attacks went away, but the other GB symptoms have not subsided, and may be worse.

Val, my BP seems to have leveled off again. It's running normal now, with a slight change in medication. I so appreciate your concern and support. I know you are having terrible problems, and I hope they get to the root of it all and that you are able to get back to normal again. Your kind words mean more than you can know.

To everyone who responded and everyone who has helped me in the past, thank you so much! I just feel beaten down by all this at times, and this forum helps so much.

Best to all of you,

GaelLooking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.

[Guest guest]

Gael, hang in there.

I am leaving for Mayo Clinic in the morning.

Val

YAY!! I do hope this is the beginning of the end of your difficult years with this. All best wishes and prayers to you, Val.

GaelLooking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

I just want to continue sharing my saliva labs and interventions. I

skipped reporting last month (July) because i had thought the DHEA

caused higher estrogen and stopped it... then the horrid happened. in

July, the whole month, i felt like road kill. I slept A LOT, and

couldn't even think. Tremendous brain fog. When I stopped the DHEA,

cold turkey, I believe it sent my adrenals into shock. Just look at

the labs, the DHEA is lower than BEFORE i added it. In July, even my

cortisol took another dump too (i'm not showing my cortisol labs

becuase i'm too lazy to type them, but they did dump a little),

although i've been using 20 mg of cortisol.

As for thyroid, I had those checked again, my Free T4 and free T3

remain the exact same sine 2006. Still in range, but low. TSH is 4

(still too high). I'm not certain if thyroid is or isn't cause yet of

my symptoms simply because adding Armour made me feel icky. I'm still

waiting for an RT3 result. Other results: no Lyme, no Celiac.

So here are Interventions and Saliva's til now:

Interventions for each month (aside from vitamins supplements for

Adenal Fatigue)

March-May: Cortisol, Idoine, Vit D3, DIM, Cal Glucarate, begining to

feel ok.

May: Cortisol, Idoine, Juice Fast/Cleanse –felt good

June: Cortisol, Idoine, added 10 mg DHEA at night—felt really good

toward end of month a little hyper--thought it may be DHEA

July: Cortisol, Idoine, stopped DHEA—felt like shit

E Range: 1.0-10.8

2/13: 10.0

3/20: 27.6

4/28: 32+

5/26: 5.3--first time i'm in range.

6/25: 11.9--added DHEA this month, E goes up.

7/21: 3.8--no DHEA, E goes down.

P Range: 127-446

2/13: 169.1

3/20: 203.8

4/28: 7854.3 -- NOT a typo! Detox from stopping WP 11/2007

5/26: 210.6

6/25: 153.9

7/21: 100.6--this is now lower than range

T Range 6.0-49.0

2/13: 34.8

3/20: 21.8

4/28: 20.5

5/26: 14.9

6/25: 13.0

7/21: 14.9

DHEA Range: 106-300

2/13: 44.2

3/20: 51.7

4/28: 54.9

5/26: 36.2

6/25: 82.9 --supplemented DHEA this month, still not in range

7/21: 21.7-- stopped DHEA ths month, felt like road kill.

I began DHEA again last week and FINALLY feeling good again. I'm

still worried it will drive my estrogen too high. and i have ovarian

cysts so i don't want that. its important (in my view) that my

estrogen stays at lower range of saliva ranges, (its when i feel

better). Since my progesterone is now below range, my ND suggested

that i take a low dose (20 mg) a few weeks of the month to help with

off setting any surges in Estrogen or to see if it will help me

sleep. I'm actually willing to try it even after the WP mess and now

seeing that it has been dropping since the detox i feel safe to try

it at small amounts. After what happened for stopping DHEA, i'll be

certain to watch for any unusual symptoms tho! I can't believe I

didn't make the connection sooner. I know some people on this list

are unaffected by DHEA, but it seems to me, it made a heck of a

difference!

I'm also willing to give thyroid hormone another shot (possibly

NatureThroid...there's been some talk of inconsistencies in

Armour...but I don't want to get into that since it's not my field

and i'm not the expert), but i'd like to wait just a month or so more

until i get adrenals a bit more stable. I can't deal with taking all

new things at once. I can only deal with adding/subtracting one thing

at a time. Since thyroid has been holding steady not moving, even

with the adrenal low surges, i'm not compelled to jump on fixing it

yet.

I would welcome any thoughts on symptoms, lab results and

interventions so far.

[Guest guest]

, I question your use of saliva tests for all except cortisol. Do you

have any valid references to support their use?

Val

-----Original Message-----

From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]

On Behalf Of wild.dingo

Hi All,

I just want to continue sharing my saliva labs and interventions. I

skipped reporting last month (July) because i had thought the DHEA

caused higher estrogen and stopped it... then the horrid happened. in

July, the whole month, i felt like road kill. I slept A LOT, and

couldn't even think. Tremendous brain fog. When I stopped the DHEA,

cold turkey, I believe it sent my adrenals into shock. Just look at

the labs, the DHEA is lower than BEFORE i added it. In July, even my

cortisol took another dump too (i'm not showing my cortisol labs

becuase i'm too lazy to type them, but they did dump a little),

although i've been using 20 mg of cortisol.

As for thyroid, I had those checked again, my Free T4 and free T3

remain the exact same sine 2006. Still in range, but low. TSH is 4

(still too high). I'm not certain if thyroid is or isn't cause yet of

my symptoms simply because adding Armour made me feel icky. I'm still

waiting for an RT3 result. Other results: no Lyme, no Celiac.

So here are Interventions and Saliva's til now:

Interventions for each month (aside from vitamins supplements for

Adenal Fatigue)

March-May: Cortisol, Idoine, Vit D3, DIM, Cal Glucarate, begining to

feel ok.

May: Cortisol, Idoine, Juice Fast/Cleanse -felt good

June: Cortisol, Idoine, added 10 mg DHEA at night-felt really good

toward end of month a little hyper--thought it may be DHEA

July: Cortisol, Idoine, stopped DHEA-felt like shit

E Range: 1.0-10.8

2/13: 10.0

3/20: 27.6

4/28: 32+

5/26: 5.3--first time i'm in range.

6/25: 11.9--added DHEA this month, E goes up.

7/21: 3.8--no DHEA, E goes down.

P Range: 127-446

2/13: 169.1

3/20: 203.8

4/28: 7854.3 -- NOT a typo! Detox from stopping WP 11/2007

5/26: 210.6

6/25: 153.9

7/21: 100.6--this is now lower than range

T Range 6.0-49.0

2/13: 34.8

3/20: 21.8

4/28: 20.5

5/26: 14.9

6/25: 13.0

7/21: 14.9

DHEA Range: 106-300

2/13: 44.2

3/20: 51.7

4/28: 54.9

5/26: 36.2

6/25: 82.9 --supplemented DHEA this month, still not in range

7/21: 21.7-- stopped DHEA ths month, felt like road kill.

I began DHEA again last week and FINALLY feeling good again. I'm

still worried it will drive my estrogen too high. and i have ovarian

cysts so i don't want that. its important (in my view) that my

estrogen stays at lower range of saliva ranges, (its when i feel

better). Since my progesterone is now below range, my ND suggested

that i take a low dose (20 mg) a few weeks of the month to help with

off setting any surges in Estrogen or to see if it will help me

sleep. I'm actually willing to try it even after the WP mess and now

seeing that it has been dropping since the detox i feel safe to try

it at small amounts. After what happened for stopping DHEA, i'll be

certain to watch for any unusual symptoms tho! I can't believe I

didn't make the connection sooner. I know some people on this list

are unaffected by DHEA, but it seems to me, it made a heck of a

difference!

I'm also willing to give thyroid hormone another shot (possibly

NatureThroid...there's been some talk of inconsistencies in

Armour...but I don't want to get into that since it's not my field

and i'm not the expert), but i'd like to wait just a month or so more

until i get adrenals a bit more stable. I can't deal with taking all

new things at once. I can only deal with adding/subtracting one thing

at a time. Since thyroid has been holding steady not moving, even

with the adrenal low surges, i'm not compelled to jump on fixing it

yet.

I would welcome any thoughts on symptoms, lab results and

interventions so far.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Only one comment, my understanding is the DHEA should be taken in the morning. Everything I’ve read and every doctor I’ve spoken to (Dr. Reiss & Dr. Moran) say that it will keep you up at night, so never to take after 3 in the afternoon.

I personally use 5mg in the morning.

Nora

Reply-To: <rhythmicliving >

Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 18:55:05 -0000

To: <rhythmicliving >

Subject: Adrenals, DHEA and Saliva Labs continued...

Hi All,

I just want to continue sharing my saliva labs and interventions. I

skipped reporting last month (July) because i had thought the DHEA

caused higher estrogen and stopped it... then the horrid happened. in

July, the whole month, i felt like road kill. I slept A LOT, and

couldn't even think. Tremendous brain fog. When I stopped the DHEA,

cold turkey, I believe it sent my adrenals into shock. Just look at

the labs, the DHEA is lower than BEFORE i added it. In July, even my

cortisol took another dump too (i'm not showing my cortisol labs

becuase i'm too lazy to type them, but they did dump a little),

although i've been using 20 mg of cortisol.

As for thyroid, I had those checked again, my Free T4 and free T3

remain the exact same sine 2006. Still in range, but low. TSH is 4

(still too high). I'm not certain if thyroid is or isn't cause yet of

my symptoms simply because adding Armour made me feel icky. I'm still

waiting for an RT3 result. Other results: no Lyme, no Celiac.

So here are Interventions and Saliva's til now:

Interventions for each month (aside from vitamins supplements for

Adenal Fatigue)

March-May: Cortisol, Idoine, Vit D3, DIM, Cal Glucarate, begining to

feel ok.

May: Cortisol, Idoine, Juice Fast/Cleanse ˆfelt good

June: Cortisol, Idoine, added 10 mg DHEA at night˜felt really good

toward end of month a little hyper--thought it may be DHEA

July: Cortisol, Idoine, stopped DHEA˜felt like shit

E Range: 1.0-10.8

2/13: 10.0

3/20: 27.6

4/28: 32+

5/26: 5.3--first time i'm in range.

6/25: 11.9--added DHEA this month, E goes up.

7/21: 3.8--no DHEA, E goes down.

P Range: 127-446

2/13: 169.1

3/20: 203.8

4/28: 7854.3 -- NOT a typo! Detox from stopping WP 11/2007

5/26: 210.6

6/25: 153.9

7/21: 100.6--this is now lower than range

T Range 6.0-49.0

2/13: 34.8

3/20: 21.8

4/28: 20.5

5/26: 14.9

6/25: 13.0

7/21: 14.9

DHEA Range: 106-300

2/13: 44.2

3/20: 51.7

4/28: 54.9

5/26: 36.2

6/25: 82.9 --supplemented DHEA this month, still not in range

7/21: 21.7-- stopped DHEA ths month, felt like road kill.

I began DHEA again last week and FINALLY feeling good again. I'm

still worried it will drive my estrogen too high. and i have ovarian

cysts so i don't want that. its important (in my view) that my

estrogen stays at lower range of saliva ranges, (its when i feel

better). Since my progesterone is now below range, my ND suggested

that i take a low dose (20 mg) a few weeks of the month to help with

off setting any surges in Estrogen or to see if it will help me

sleep. I'm actually willing to try it even after the WP mess and now

seeing that it has been dropping since the detox i feel safe to try

it at small amounts. After what happened for stopping DHEA, i'll be

certain to watch for any unusual symptoms tho! I can't believe I

didn't make the connection sooner. I know some people on this list

are unaffected by DHEA, but it seems to me, it made a heck of a

difference!

I'm also willing to give thyroid hormone another shot (possibly

NatureThroid...there's been some talk of inconsistencies in

Armour...but I don't want to get into that since it's not my field

and i'm not the expert), but i'd like to wait just a month or so more

until i get adrenals a bit more stable. I can't deal with taking all

new things at once. I can only deal with adding/subtracting one thing

at a time. Since thyroid has been holding steady not moving, even

with the adrenal low surges, i'm not compelled to jump on fixing it

yet.

I would welcome any thoughts on symptoms, lab results and

interventions so far.

[Guest guest]

Gael, hang in there.

I am leaving for Mayo Clinic in the morning.

Val

From: rhythmicliving

[mailto:rhythmicliving ] On Behalf Of gaelgreen@...

Thank you to everyone

who responded to my note and questions a few days ago. I am feeling

pretty awful, but I think a lot of it is from gallbladder problems. I am

due to see someone about that in a couple of weeks. Right after my hysterectomy

I had a few GB attacks with excruciating pain, and was told that GB problems

are common after hysterectomy, even when ovaries are left intact. The

attacks went away, but the other GB symptoms have not subsided, and may be

worse.

Val, my BP seems to have

leveled off again. It's running normal now, with a slight change in

medication. I so appreciate your concern and support. I know you

are having terrible problems, and I hope they get to the root of it all and

that you are able to get back to normal again. Your kind words mean more

than you can know.

To everyone who

responded and everyone who has helped me in the past, thank you so much!

I just feel beaten down by all this at times, and this forum helps so much.

[Guest guest]

Val,

My thoughts are with you.

Hugs,

Liz

___________________________________

www.ojaipaintedminis.com

http://fineartamerica.com/artwork/tag/liz+vernand

From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On Behalf Of Valarie Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 3:16 PMTo: rhythmicliving Subject: RE: Adrenals, DHEA and Saliva Labs continued...

Gael, hang in there.

I am leaving for Mayo Clinic in the morning.

Val

From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On Behalf Of gaelgreenaol

Thank you to everyone who responded to my note and questions a few days ago. I am feeling pretty awful, but I think a lot of it is from gallbladder problems. I am due to see someone about that in a couple of weeks. Right after my hysterectomy I had a few GB attacks with excruciating pain, and was told that GB problems are common after hysterectomy, even when ovaries are left intact. The attacks went away, but the other GB symptoms have not subsided, and may be worse.

Val, my BP seems to have leveled off again. It's running normal now, with a slight change in medication. I so appreciate your concern and support. I know you are having terrible problems, and I hope they get to the root of it all and that you are able to get back to normal again. Your kind words mean more than you can know.

To everyone who responded and everyone who has helped me in the past, thank you so much! I just feel beaten down by all this at times, and this forum helps so much.

[Guest guest]

Hi Val,

I confess, i'm not the expert on serum vs. saliva for sex hormones.

However, I've had the best success so far with my ND on treating my

metabolic issues and he prefers saliva testing for everything except

thryoid. In addition, all us WP'ers found out that it's impossible to

test for P when using P transdermonally. At this point, i'm picking a

method of measurment and using my symptoms to move forward. saliva is

easiest/fastest for me, tho i do use blood serum now and then too.

Here is a recent summary of why and the references follow from the

Lab my ND uses. I myself will not verify and pick them apart. I have

no problem with anyone on this list who would like to tho! the

summary is from the lab that my ND uses (obviously a marketing tool)

but they do cite their references, which i'll copy below.

>---BEGIN SUMMARY FROM LAB'S NEWSLETTER--<

Saliva testing is proving to be the most reliable medium for

measuring hormone levels. Hormone levels in saliva accurately

represent the amount of hormone delivered to receptors in the body,

unlike serum which represents hormone levels that may or may not be

delivered to receptors of the body. Clinically, it is far more

relevant to test the amount of hormones delivered to the tissue

receptors as this is a reflection of the active hormone levels of the

body.

The majority of hormones in the blood exist in one of two forms: free

(5%) or protein bound (95%). While 95% of the hormones in the body

are protein bound, it is only the 5% free hormones that are

biologically active. Saliva measures the free bioavailable hormone

levels in the body, while serum measures only the protein bound non-

bioavailable hormone levels. Therefore, serum is a much less accurate

measurement than that of saliva when assessing functional hormone

levels.

Saliva Measures the " Unbound " Biologically Active or Free Hormone

Levels in the Body:

When blood is filtered through the salivary glands, the bound hormone

components are too large to pass through the cell membranes of the

salivary glands. Only the unbound hormones pass through and into the

saliva. What is measured in the saliva is considered the " free " , or

bioavailable hormone, that which will be delivered to the receptors

in the tissues of the body.

Serum Measures the " Protein Bound " Biologically Inactive Hormone

Levels in the Body:In order for steroid hormones to be detected in

serum, they must be bound to circulating proteins. In this bound

state, they are unable to fit into receptors in the body, and

therefore will not be delivered to tissues. They are considered

inactive, or non-bioavailable.

Only Saliva Testing Measures Topically Dosed Hormones:

The discrepancy between free and protein bound hormones becomes

especially important when monitoring topical, or transdermal, hormone

therapy. Studies show that this method of delivery results in

increased tissue hormone levels (thus measurable in saliva), but no

parallel increase in serum levels. Therefore, serum testing cannot be

used to monitor topical hormone therapy.

>--END SUMMARY OF LAB NEWSLETTER AND BEGIN REFERENCES LAB USED FOR

THIS SUMMARY--<

Salivary References

The following references are articles found by searching the peer

reviewed literature that address the benefits of saliva over serum.

Percutaneous administration of progesterone: blood levels and

endometrial protection.

Stanczyk FZ, et al. Menopause (2005), 12(2): 232-237.

A very good review of the issues related to the effectiveness of

topical administration of progesterone on the endometrium and the

disparity between saliva and serum levels. The RBC carrier theory is

validated.

Salivary, but not serum or urinary levels of progesterone are

elevated after topical application of progesterone cream to pre- and

postmenopausal women.

O'Leary P, et al. Clin Endo (2005) 53: 615-620.

Researchers applied 64mg of progesterone topically to 6 each pre- and

postmenopausal women. The continuous 3hr serum and 24hr urine

(including pregnanediol-3-glucuronide metabolite) samples showed no

significant level changes; whereas, remarkable elevations were noted

in the saliva. Authors question clinical organ response without a

measurable serum level, though organ delivery was obvious. They also

suggest that the lymphatic system delivers the hormones rather than

RBCs.

A study to evaluate serum and urinary hormone levels following short

and long term administration of two regimens of progesterone cream in

postmenopausal women.

Carey BJ, et al. British J Obstetrics and Gynecology (2000) 107:722-

726.

Authors evaluated serum and urine levels in 24 pre and postmenopausal

women following the topical application of 40mg of progesterone

either bid divided dosage or qd. Conclusion: " Transdermal

progesterone (40mg) per day for 42 days causes a small increase in

serum progesterone concentration, although there is wide variation.

Whether such levels are of clinical benefit remain to be seen. " There

was no change in the metabolite.

Topical progesterone cream has an antiproliferative effect on

estrogen-stimulated endometrium.

Leonetti HB, et al. Fertility and Sterility (2003) 79:221-2.

Authors monitored endometrial biopsies proliferative activity in 32

postmenopausal women following 0.625 CEE and given either bid daily

0, 1.5% or 4% progesterone topically. Endometrial biopsy evaluation

after 2 weeks of progesterone clearly showed an antiproliferative

effect of topical progesterone. The antiproliferative effect was

essentially the same for the 1.5% and 4% dosages. Regarding serum

testing, the authors comment: " The plasma concentrations of

progesterone were low and varied greatly among individuals. However,

elevated serum levels are irrelevant, provided one obtains the

desired clinical outcome. "

Micronized transdermal progesterone and endometrial response.

Wren BG, et al. Lancet (1999) 354: 1447-8.

Authors randomized 27 estradiol exposed (Climara 100 weekly)

postmenopausal women into 16mg, 32mg or 64mg groups. Serum levels and

endometrial biopsies were monitored. Summary: The use of transdermal

progesterone for 14 days over three cycles, even at concentrations as

high as 64 mg daily, did not increase circulation blood progesterone

concentrations sufficiently to induce any evidence of secretory

effect in the endometrium.

Hormones in Saliva.

Vining RF and McGinley RA. Critical Reviews in Clinical Laboratory

Sciences. (1986) 23(2):95-146.

An excellent review article looking at the constituents of saliva.

Conclusion: " Saliva flow rate does affect saliva pH and the

concentration of many salivary ions. This has led many clinicians to

assume that it would also affect all salivary steroid levels. This is

not the case—a number of clinically important steroids, such as

cortisol, testosterone, estriol and progesterone, have salivary

concentrations which are not appreciably affected by saliva flow

rate. However, the conjugated steroids (e.g., DHEAS) and some

unconjugated (e.g., cortisone) may exhibit marked flow rate

dependence. "

Salivary cortisol: a better measure of adrenal cortical function than

serum.

Vining RF, et al. Ann Clin Biochem (1983) 20:329-35.

Prospective study: three groups (ages 24-32) consisting of 7 healthy

men and women and 10 third trimester pregnant women). Advantages of

saliva: reflects bio-available cortisol and unaffected by CBG level,

which rises with BCP and during pregnancy. Stress free and easy to

collect. Lends itself to multiple samples. IV cortisol injection

shows salivary rise within 5 mins. Routine serum samples at 0900 and

1700 do not accurately reflect adrenal dysfunction.

Influences of percutaneous administration of estradiol and

progesterone on human breast epithelial cell cycle in vivo.

Chang KJ, et al. Fertil Steril (1995) 63(4):785-91.

Randomized placebo controlled study of 40 Premenopausal women

scheduled for excisional biopsy of benign lesions. Study groups were

given either Pg 25mg or E2 1.5mg or both topically qd to the surgical

breast (10-13 days before surgery. Findings: Both E2 and progesterone

readily penetrated the skin, increasing the progesterone level x100.

Progesterone induced a major reduction in the acinar cell

proliferation rate whether used alone or in combination with E2. The

serum levels did not reflect the topical hormone supplementation.

Salivary cortisol determined by enzyme immunoassay is preferable to

serum total cortisol for assessment of dynamic hypothalamic-pituitary-

adrenal axis activity.

Gozansky WS, et al. Clin Endocrin (2005) 63:336-341.

Author compared salivary and serum cortisol levels between 12

individuals under various conditions: exercise stress, dexamethasone

suppression or CRH stimulation. EIA was the salivary test method

compared to serum RIA. Conclusion: " Therefore, assessment of salivary

cortisol should be considered over serum total cortisol because more

physiologically relevant data are obtained, particularly when the

cortisol response to an HPA axis stimulus exceeds

Direct assay for progesterone in saliva: comparison with a direct

serum assay.

Webley GE, R. Ann Clin Biochem (1985) 22:579-585.

Study compares direct serum and saliva assays for sensitivity,

precision and recovery. Twenty women in various stages of their

menstrual cycle were compared using serum and saliva. Conclusion:

Saliva showed a significant correlation (r=0.71, P<0.001) compared to

serum with the added advantages of convenience and reduced stress (no

needles).

Human Erythrocyte Membrane Uptake of Progesterone and Chemical

Alterations.

Devenuto F, et al. Biochem. Biophys. Acta (1969) 193:36-47.

Study of RBC membrane uptake to progesterone, corticosterone and

cortisol in fresh and 42 day stored (blood bank) blood. Findings:

progesterone showed a much greater affinity for RBC constituents (6

to 8 times greater) than the glucocorticoid hormones. Furthermore,

there is a likely direct relationship with the amount of bound

progesterone and the viability of RBCs in storage, e.g., female blood

may be more stable in storage. Also, indirectly this data supports

the RBC as a carrier medium for topically applied progesterone.

[Guest guest]

Hi Nora,

When i first started taking it, i was taking it at night. My ND said

to experiment night or morning becasue in some it " relaxes " them in

others it makes them stay up at night. so i see your point.

i think my " hyperness " was not so much out of time of day i took it

but with dose amount. I felt great at 10 mg right away. i probalby

should have just dropped to 5 when i got a little hyper. instead, i

freaked and stopped. this time around i'm taking it in the a.m. split

5 and 5 morning and noon. if i get hyper, i'll cut back to 5 and see

how i do. i felt a little sleepy today, so i wonder if i have

opposite effect and do need it at night instead in the morning ...

i'm going to play around and see how it works this month day by day.

my husband used it for a few months and he felt awesome. then he had

his hair go thin so he stopped thinking it was DHEA ... but he was

stressed at work. he thought it ws the DHEA... but i think it was the

stress. he didn't tell me when he stopped DHEA, he felt like crap

too! He's back on it and feels really good on it. (he had been tested

low for DHEA btw...not like he willy nilly went on it.)

sometimes i forget, even tho over the counter, a hormone is a

hormone. it can affect the marbles of our metabolic system quite

dramatically, going on and then off quickly. doesn't matter if

it's " over the counter! "

for me personally, i think it is supplementing my adrenal health more

than anything else it " supposedly does " for sex hormones. but i could

be wrong on that!

thanks for your input!

>

> Hi ,

> Only one comment, my understanding is the DHEA should be taken in

the

> morning. Everything I¹ve read and every doctor I¹ve spoken to (Dr.

Reiss &

> Dr. Moran) say that it will keep you up at night, so never to take

after 3

> in the afternoon.

>

> I personally use 5mg in the morning.

>

> Nora

>